July 05, 2004

Bush primate references "misguided and demeaning." "... Such comparisons overemphasize physical similarities between Bush and chimpanzees while downplaying important differences in genetics, behavior, and natural habitat."

Cute trope aside, I think that the proposed new American approach is more likely to diminish the African bushmeat trade that the isolationist pose of the last thirty years. Though somehow I doubt that's really the concern here....

posted by goetter 20 years ago
  • Wonderful. Wonderful. [Project for the New American Banana to you, sir]
  • No, the concern here is how someone who, by all artistic judgment, has an intelligence far less sufficient than that expected to run the executive branch is allowed to continue to exist when he inevitable forces people to draw connections between himself and chimpanzees, subsequently hurting the reputation of chimpanzees.
  • It's true. A monkey would never do that. Monkeys are good people. BTW, I think that tshirt should be the default uniform around here.
  • Chimps? Apes? I wanna know who the dolphins support.
  • and I don't mean pro football players in Miami.
  • Additional, re: the Endagered Species Act 'n shit: I can see why you would say that you think the "interventionist but limited" angle is ultimately better than the "spreading the love from a distance" one - but I disagree. My worry is that encouraging the private sector to help out in issues like this always underestimates the private sector's (legitimate) incentives to ignore the 'social responsibility' aspect of their role. (Regardless of my opinion of the current administration's reaction to a company telling them "but we can make money from this," which generally seems to be, "Okay, then"...) In general terms, the adoption of a more businesslike approach to environmental projects is something that I'm wholeheartedly behind - Cornwall's Eden Project, something which is very close to my heart, is a fantastic example of a project with the best environmental motives that is also an enormously attractive business proposition - but I think that the way to approach that is (if you'll permit a horribly inaccurate generalisation) to insert incentives towards capitalism into a socialist approach, rather than incentives towards socialism into a capitalist approach. [Right. My laziness in use of terms demands a quick explanation. Firstly, I don't mean to imply that socialism (by which I mean democratic socialism, and the generalised theories behind such) is inherently "nicer" than capitalism. I happen to think it is, but that's not the point. Socialism is simply meant to stand for "putting money into projects because (some governing agency believes) they are for the greater good", while capitalism is shorthand for "putting money into things because they will turn a profit (which may lead to the greater good, because people have their own interests at heart)". Okay? Loaded terms now unloaded? Carry on.] Simply, I think with areas of responsibility where the potential impact of human fallibility is so extreme, the safety net has to be the default position. Everything I know about human behaviour towards exploitable resources tells me that, no matter what encouragements are given towards responsible approaches to them, the mark will be repeatedly overstepped. Better to protect first, then encourage self-supporting pragmatic behaviour, than to remove the protection in the name of self-regulation. On preview: This is so much less coherent and insightful than I thought it was; more repetitious, too. I kinda feel I shouldn't even bother to click 'Post', but hey - is that the Monkey spirit? Is it heck. I plead the hour of night, and beer, as mitigating factors.
  • I can't believe no one has mentioned how insulting such comparisons are to chimpanzees
  • but I think that the way to approach that is ... to insert incentives towards capitalism into a socialist approach, rather than incentives towards socialism into a capitalist approach. Forgot all this. Just redefine money/resources, make new rules, and see if people/other-animals win the game. I've got my own country we can experiment with. Who wants to play?
  • I can't believe no one has mentioned how insulting such comparisons are to chimpanzees ... subsequently hurting the reputation of chimpanzees.
  • I think I just found liberals even I can't stand ... and I'm a liberal!
  • Hey, the comparision is correct. Chimpanzees are agressive imperialistic warmongering creatures. Bononos instead...
  • I'm a liberal I heard we got AIDS from chimps; maybe we can infect them with the propensity to label themselves in return. On the hypocrisy hand, I don't think I've ever met another atheist I liked.
  • Hey, freethough. You can start detesting me now. :)
  • Hey, freethough. You can start detesting me now. I have to meet you first :) I shouldn't even bring this irrelevant stuff up in threads, and if this place were as popular as say, mefi, I’d surely tone it down, but I’ve been getting frustrated for years at how people use labels as a substitute for a more specific idea. However, I’m guilty in other ways and, if you look at most of my posts, you can come up with plenty of criticisms.
  • Yay, I'm #2 after Zemat! :P
  • I waffle between atheism and agnosticism. Does that count?
  • Does that count? Yes! I can't wait to meet and dislike you! I personally waffle between letting hypothetical supreme intelligences influence my behavior to wanting to wage a violent intellectual war on all superstition.
  • I just want to wage war on on wafflers and supreme intelligences. Especially waffling supreme intelligences. Oh, yeah, and "supreme" intelligences and supreme "intelligences". And "wafflers". And when I am done, I shall eat waffles. Thus completing the circle.
  • Comparing Bush to a chimp is good fun, but the falling numbers of monkeys and apes shouold not be taken lightly. People shouldn't dismiss this idea of the U.S. being one of the main forces destroying un-touched areas around the world and killing off millions of animals.
  • Meanwhile, comparing Kerry to a horse or to Lurch is good clean fun!
  • I've changed my mind since last night. I only waffle pancakes.
  • Bush is NOT the Monkeys' uncle. Save the bush babies. Get rid of the Bush.
  • BlueHorse, I share your sentiments, but how on this earth and all fictional earths do we mend what's amiss with Africa? So much is wrong. AIDs and primate extinctions are tied together --and we're not doing well at containing either one. War, famine, ignorance, and disease are humanity's worst and most eternal enemies. I wish we could focus sustained international effort on exterminating/reducing those instead of letting petty squabbles between factions/nations/religions/classes/toenail parings etc hog all the attention. *dammit, crying in the wilderness again*