In "Evangelical Christianity Has Been Hijacked"

"Skrik's first link is scary stuff. The fact that kwonsar agrees with it's views tells me all I need to know about kwonsar." Rocket88, What's so scary? Really. Am I scary? Are you afraid of people who don't agree with you? Are you afraid of dissension? Are Christians not allowed to disagree with Campolo? You seem presumptuous and certainly annoying. But that's just me.

In "Who makes YOU laugh?"

For stand-up:Eddie Murphy, Bill Hicks and Jim Carrey For film:Jim Carrey, Will Ferrell, Jack Black(you should check out Tenacious D if you get a chance),er, Adam Sandler(tollbooth willy), can't not laugh at Andy Dick Jay Mohr does the best impressions including a Christopher Walken that's perfect. Not funny, Howie Mandel, Ali G, Tom Arnold

In "Evangelical Christianity Has Been Hijacked"

Shrik's posted link explains well what I think of this "Gospel-preaching, bible-believer. The interview is thus, rubbish. Just my two cents.

In "I don't have a sense that there's a lot of anger"

I can't speak for anyone but myself but perhaps someone will agree with this: Bush stands firm on national security, important to all Americans, stands firm on opposition to stem cell research, important to many Americans, stands firm on not supporting abortion, important to many Americans, stands firm on oppostion to gay marriage, important to many Americans, Bush doesn't cowtow to other liberal and corrupt governments(France,Germany,Russia) just because they have UN influence,important to many as well. So what don't you understand exactly about the people who support Bush? Aren't these big enough reason to vote for a president? Why do I have to anal-ize every little bitty detail about Bush and Kerry if I already know the primary issues that are important to me and which guy represents them? My two cents.

In "Your marriage? Null and void."

"Kwonsar never said that being attracted to the same sex was a choice, because he never addressed being attracted to the same sex at all. He only addressed having sex with the same sex." Well, this isnt' the first time in this thread that someone has accused me of something I didn't say. Wurwilf, here are two previous quotes of mine from this thread. " Homosex(ual)(ity) is an act of sex with same sex or feeling of sexual attraction with the same sex." "If you are attracted to the same sex fine, but to act on that attraction is a choice." It's all good though. I've enjoyed this thread, my first MoFi thread. Thanks.

"Secondly, what about all those heathe...er, non-christians that get married all over the world? (and pretty much outnumber the christians on this planet to boot) Are they not married either?" It depends on how you define marriage. "But who made you final arbiter of right and wrong?" Nobody, never said I was.

"Homosexuality isn't a choice. It chooses you. It's genetic. Period." I will respectfully disagree. "then you're telling me that people should surrender their freedom solely to appease someone else's moral constructs." No, I'm not. I just happen to beleive in right and wrong. "If "acting on that attraction is a choice" then EVERYTHING we do is a choice and the argument breaks down like a jalopy." How does it break down?

To clarify something I said earlier. This is my view on the definitions of gay and homosexuality; A gay person is someone who has incorporated the ideas of homosexuality into their lifestyle, incorporated to me denotes choice. Homosex(ual)(ity) is an act of sex with same sex or feeling of sexual attraction with the same sex. I don't believe humans are naturally homosexual, rather, heterosexual,while they can choose to participate in acts of homosexuality. If you are gay it's not because you had sex with someone of the same sex, it's because you have incorporated that behavior and way of thinking into your lifestyle. If you are attracted to the same sex fine, but to act on that attraction is a choice. Also, with the whole animals partaking in homosexual activity. I believe animals act on natural instinct and do not choose. So their acts of homosexuality are natural. I know my opinions aren't popular among Mofiers, but you asked so I told. This is not trolling, it's responding.

I just have to answer Alnedra's questions that he so politely listed numerically so that I can answer them in order. Hey its easy. Question 1:No the laws should conform to whatever democracy dictates. 2:n/a 3:I don't believe in denomonations. To me they are just clubs to join. Each one has their own requirements and I beleive God requires nothing but the simple choice of accepting Christ. 4:No 6?:2 part question. a.I really don't know, I eloped if that tells you anything. b.My guess is because they are man and woman not same sex. I hope these answers suffice.

Went to softball practice. I'm glad that I wasn't here for the lambasting. Anyway, there was no way possible for me to possible answer all the questions directed at me. Kindof glad f8xmulder balanced the thread a bit. Not only am I a newbie here but also a minority, and I don't want to come off as a troll just because I have seemingly illogical beliefs and am not shy. I know I'm not always the most sensitive person in the world but I have tried to be courteous in this thread. There was a few things that caught my eye in the thread since I left but f8xmulder covered most of em. So perhaps I don't need to add anymore unless there is something that someone just absolutely has to ask me, I will do my best to answer honestly. Otherwise,I'll see ya'll around.

"Hiding behind the Bible is just a red herring." You've got your beliefs as to what is right and I've got mine. It's that simple. Don't discriminate against me just because I don't believe what you believe.

"Why do you need so many copies, anyway?" Roryk, back off, perhaps this is the quote you saw from middleclasstool,"Reason, conscience, golden rule, decency, etc. The Bible is a significant part of Christianity (my wife and I probably own a dozen of them)" "I did not choose to be gay. I DID choose to have relations with other men, and I still do." See, es el Queso, you just defined gay. A man who chooses to have sexual relations with another man=gay. Homosexual=gay=sexual involvement with same sex person. So to me it looks as though, in your statement, you contradicted yourself.

"kwonsar I'll take your complete inability to biblically support your claim that god defines marriage as only between a man and a woman as an admission of defeat on your part." The entire bible supports my claim, you should read it sometime. I'm done for now. Cheers.

"I'm still waiting patiently for a pointer to where in the bible god has defined marriage." Roryk, sorry, lost track a little, um, you can look in Genesis 2:18-25. That should give you a pretty good idea of what God intended. If you want the verses in which God disaproves of a sexual union between two men, I'll look those up too.

"I'm so fucking immature, but I just have to say - "fucking with God's will"? That just seems...like the wrong words to use." And the point is...

middleclasstool, I agree with what you said above. And never asserted otherwise. Except, "Meanwhile, those gay couples who got their marriages taken back don't love each other any less. But their government tells them that they should go hide somewhere while we pretend they don't exist. And that ain't equal treatment under the law." You speak of their love to which you are not privy, and also you speak of what the goverment is telling them, we are the government.

"And lest I forget... my statement that homosexuality is inherent is no more or less provable than a blanket assertation that it is a choice. Therein lies the problem." Yep, I'll agree with that.

"The facts I bring to the table are the experiences related to me by dozens of people whom I respect. Not empirically provable perhaps, but at least as valid as a passage from Deuteronomy or Romans." I know your beliefs differ from mine but don't think I am unaware of the issues gays face. I also know well several gay men and women. They know my beliefs and understand that I accept them as people but don't approve of their choice of lifestyle. On the second part, To me the validity of something is found in its truthfullness.

"Besides, how does a gay marriage affect your everyday life? Really? People disobey God all the time without getting amendments thrown at them--why is this one so special?" Marriage represents a union blessed by God. It is the basis of everything a true Christian believes. I believe God instituted marriage because He, as the our creator, knows what is best for us. I know my beliefs don't hold much water with a lot people, all the more reason to affirm them. "I'd wager that if gay marriage were legal tomorrow, and kept quiet, no one would even notice. Except the gays." Doesn't make it right.

"Do you honestly believe that if you wanted to, you could CHOOSE to be gay?" Are you serious? Of course If believe that.

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