...the same generation that created this mess we find ourselves in today
Yeah, coz everybody of that age is an ignorant bigot who fought for the Nazis.
If someone you know, including your Dad, sends you emails you find offensive, for God's sake tell them so, and why. Don't delete, rebut.
At present, no-one has anything better than vague and general ideas about how life originated, so it's quite unreasonable to suggest we need to invoke an extra-terrestrial origin.
I'm not too worried about the apple pie, but those other topics sound potentially sort of interesting, actually.
I assume you're thinking that these things are too obviously good for any discussion to be worthwhile. But social science would be dull (and dare I say rather bland?) if all the scientists were allowed to do was celebrate the virtues of democracy and clean, honest living.
Or maybe I'm misreading you, fuyugare, and you think it's boringly obvious that democracy, clean honest living, apple pie, and ethnic diversity are so many crocks?
I accept that the distinction you mention is there, AC - for Christianity and Islam (not sure about Judaism) belief, and correct belief, is essential in a way it isn't for Buddhism (and other oriental religions?).
All the same, I reckon if you pressed a Buddhist to say whether he thought good Christians were right to seek eternal life in Heaven, rather than enlightenment through the eightfold path, honesty would kind of require him to say he didn't think so.
Your hostility is very gravely misplaced, fuyugare. Pervez Hoodbhoy is a Professor of Nuclear Physics at Islamabad; his piece is thoughtful and well-informed. His university has come under pressure from the local Islamic authorities to end co-education. It has three mosques but no bookstore.
No Pakistani university, including QAU, allowed Abdus Salam to set foot on its campus, although he had received the Nobel Prize in 1979 for his role in formulating the standard model of particle physics.
...because he was regarded as a heretic.
Your response is that if he thinks Islam needs a re-think, he can fuck off?
Perhaps my brush is broad, AC, and I don't disagree with HW's main point: I just thought he was singling out Buddhists as uniquely free of all sectarian feeling, which seems a mischaracterisation to me.
Don't set the Buffdhists on me...
Buddhism, which avoids taking a stand one way or the other
I don't know what you mean by that. Surely Buddhism is just as split up between different sects, all of whom think the others are wrong, as any other religion. Even sectarian violence is not unknown.
Sure, if you ask a Buddhist, they'll probably get that 'more enlightened than thou' look and tell you Buddhism respects all faith. Just as a Muslim will tell you earnestly, if not assertively, that Islam is the religion of peace. Correctly, of course; but what happens on the ground is something else again.
All I'm saying is, we ought not to judge Christians by their performance and others by their ideals.
If some nut had tried to kill the President and said he did it for the Underpants Monster, you'd accept responsibility?
(Maybe we should imagine the President isn't Bush for the purposes of this exercise...)
I mean, I'm not altogether comfortable putting Jimmy Carter in with Gandhi, to be honest, but I do feel it's kind of clear how religious beliefs fed through into the way they lived their lives. I can't see that in the same way with, say Falwell (...or Hitler...): even if we grant you the premise that he really thinks he is living out Jesus's teachings, Jesus is actually no more responsible for him than Jodie Foster.
I think it's kind of absurd to say that people's deeply-held beliefs had no influence on their character. Do you really think Gandhi's non-violence had nothing to do with religion? I'm pretty sure that Carter, Gandhi, and Rogers would all themselves insist that religion had helped make them what they were.
Anyway, the principles and politics of those three flow coherently from their religion. The case of greedy and venial "celebrity christians" is quite different: their behaviour is at odds with their professed beliefs. I don't believe you will honestly tell me you think it was following the teachings of Jesus that made these people what they are.
Thanks for this, HawthorneWingo.
My own religious convictions arise, undoubtedly, from having been brought up with them. This doesn't mean I've been indoctrinated, it means I've had chance to observe how faith kind of causes Dad to pause at times and be less angry; how it reminds Uncle John that he ought to give money and even some of his time to good causes. If I declare my faith, it's as much a matter of pledging my allegiance to good over evil as indicating rational assent to a set of propositions.
Does that mean I don't really believe in God? No; having taken the leap of faith, I know from my own experience that what's working in Uncle John is not a guilty conscience or the ingrained habits of his early training, but an undeniable inner voice which reinforces his own best impulses and lends him extra strength to be in everyday life the better man he really is in himself. I hope it does the same, intermittently I guess, for me.
That's the best evidence I can have that my religion is true. You laugh at the idea of an old man with a white beard sitting on the clouds: but if you think the world isn't absurd enough to encompass that, you just ain't getting out enough.
You know I didn't, to begin with, believe any of those persistent rumours about there being a homosexualist element in the Village People, but I was sort of forced to adjust my opinion by their association with the German national soccer team, all of whom are obviously screaming fruits.
What's the worst case? You lose some time, and risk looking slightly foolish. Best case, you save your licence and enjoy an ego-boosting moment of glory.
They're not going to punish you more for contesting. (Are they?)
It doesn't matter whether you call yourself an atheist - Jesus loves you anyway. :)
posted by darling 17 years ago
In "My Right-Wing Dad"
...the same generation that created this mess we find ourselves in today Yeah, coz everybody of that age is an ignorant bigot who fought for the Nazis. If someone you know, including your Dad, sends you emails you find offensive, for God's sake tell them so, and why. Don't delete, rebut.
posted by darling 17 years ago
In "You're Not From Around Here, Are You?"
At present, no-one has anything better than vague and general ideas about how life originated, so it's quite unreasonable to suggest we need to invoke an extra-terrestrial origin.
posted by darling 17 years ago
In "The downside of diversity."
Maybe, though this particular research doesn't seem to have been driven by a political agenda.
posted by darling 17 years ago
I'm not too worried about the apple pie, but those other topics sound potentially sort of interesting, actually. I assume you're thinking that these things are too obviously good for any discussion to be worthwhile. But social science would be dull (and dare I say rather bland?) if all the scientists were allowed to do was celebrate the virtues of democracy and clean, honest living. Or maybe I'm misreading you, fuyugare, and you think it's boringly obvious that democracy, clean honest living, apple pie, and ethnic diversity are so many crocks?
posted by darling 17 years ago
In "Angkor was a city ahead of its time."
Very interesting: but maybe a little scepticism is in order when archaeological interpretations of a site echo contemporary concerns so exactly.
posted by darling 17 years ago
In "The sacred and the human."
I accept that the distinction you mention is there, AC - for Christianity and Islam (not sure about Judaism) belief, and correct belief, is essential in a way it isn't for Buddhism (and other oriental religions?). All the same, I reckon if you pressed a Buddhist to say whether he thought good Christians were right to seek eternal life in Heaven, rather than enlightenment through the eightfold path, honesty would kind of require him to say he didn't think so.
posted by darling 17 years ago
In "Science and the Islamic world."
Your hostility is very gravely misplaced, fuyugare. Pervez Hoodbhoy is a Professor of Nuclear Physics at Islamabad; his piece is thoughtful and well-informed. His university has come under pressure from the local Islamic authorities to end co-education. It has three mosques but no bookstore. No Pakistani university, including QAU, allowed Abdus Salam to set foot on its campus, although he had received the Nobel Prize in 1979 for his role in formulating the standard model of particle physics. ...because he was regarded as a heretic. Your response is that if he thinks Islam needs a re-think, he can fuck off?
posted by darling 17 years ago
In "The sacred and the human."
Perhaps my brush is broad, AC, and I don't disagree with HW's main point: I just thought he was singling out Buddhists as uniquely free of all sectarian feeling, which seems a mischaracterisation to me. Don't set the Buffdhists on me...
posted by darling 17 years ago
Buddhism, which avoids taking a stand one way or the other I don't know what you mean by that. Surely Buddhism is just as split up between different sects, all of whom think the others are wrong, as any other religion. Even sectarian violence is not unknown. Sure, if you ask a Buddhist, they'll probably get that 'more enlightened than thou' look and tell you Buddhism respects all faith. Just as a Muslim will tell you earnestly, if not assertively, that Islam is the religion of peace. Correctly, of course; but what happens on the ground is something else again. All I'm saying is, we ought not to judge Christians by their performance and others by their ideals.
posted by darling 17 years ago
If some nut had tried to kill the President and said he did it for the Underpants Monster, you'd accept responsibility? (Maybe we should imagine the President isn't Bush for the purposes of this exercise...)
posted by darling 17 years ago
I mean, I'm not altogether comfortable putting Jimmy Carter in with Gandhi, to be honest, but I do feel it's kind of clear how religious beliefs fed through into the way they lived their lives. I can't see that in the same way with, say Falwell (...or Hitler...): even if we grant you the premise that he really thinks he is living out Jesus's teachings, Jesus is actually no more responsible for him than Jodie Foster.
posted by darling 17 years ago
Hitlers?
posted by darling 17 years ago
In "World's largest clock, "
Being woken by Stephen Fry is one of my worst nightmares but I love the wooden clock made by the Japanease craftman technique.
posted by darling 17 years ago
In "Killer Hippo Shit."
When one of those shits on you, boy, you stay shat.
posted by darling 17 years ago
In "The sacred and the human."
I think it's kind of absurd to say that people's deeply-held beliefs had no influence on their character. Do you really think Gandhi's non-violence had nothing to do with religion? I'm pretty sure that Carter, Gandhi, and Rogers would all themselves insist that religion had helped make them what they were. Anyway, the principles and politics of those three flow coherently from their religion. The case of greedy and venial "celebrity christians" is quite different: their behaviour is at odds with their professed beliefs. I don't believe you will honestly tell me you think it was following the teachings of Jesus that made these people what they are.
posted by darling 17 years ago
Thanks for this, HawthorneWingo. My own religious convictions arise, undoubtedly, from having been brought up with them. This doesn't mean I've been indoctrinated, it means I've had chance to observe how faith kind of causes Dad to pause at times and be less angry; how it reminds Uncle John that he ought to give money and even some of his time to good causes. If I declare my faith, it's as much a matter of pledging my allegiance to good over evil as indicating rational assent to a set of propositions. Does that mean I don't really believe in God? No; having taken the leap of faith, I know from my own experience that what's working in Uncle John is not a guilty conscience or the ingrained habits of his early training, but an undeniable inner voice which reinforces his own best impulses and lends him extra strength to be in everyday life the better man he really is in himself. I hope it does the same, intermittently I guess, for me. That's the best evidence I can have that my religion is true. You laugh at the idea of an old man with a white beard sitting on the clouds: but if you think the world isn't absurd enough to encompass that, you just ain't getting out enough.
posted by darling 17 years ago
In "Self-postFilter:"
Y'know, maybe the Hello Kitty things weren't so bad after all.
posted by darling 17 years ago
In "SHENANNIGANS!"
You know I didn't, to begin with, believe any of those persistent rumours about there being a homosexualist element in the Village People, but I was sort of forced to adjust my opinion by their association with the German national soccer team, all of whom are obviously screaming fruits.
posted by darling 17 years ago
In "Curious George has a fool for a client?"
What's the worst case? You lose some time, and risk looking slightly foolish. Best case, you save your licence and enjoy an ego-boosting moment of glory. They're not going to punish you more for contesting. (Are they?)
posted by darling 17 years ago
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