September 10, 2005

• Move the hell out. Seriously. No matter what advice you get, you'll still be three brothers who fight.
• Or kill them.
• I (the bossy one) shared a room with my stubborn sister from when we were fifteen until I went to university. We were also in the same year at school so we saw a lot of each other. We fought a lot, but the unspoken consensus was that we were stuck with each other and we managed to get on most of the time. Of course, now we don't live together we're much closer. If you want to avoid fighting completely, moving out is the only option, seriously. You're brothers, you're supposed to fight. :) If you want to minimise the fighting, sit down together and discuss sore points, avoiding namecalling and bringing up things that are inherent to the person -- saying "You're pigheaded!" won't help at all. If you're looking for a book, this will sound weird but try Thomas Gordon's Parent Effectiveness Training. The guy was nominated for a Nobel Peace Prize for his technique, which was originally designed for diplomatic negotiations. He talks about cheesy stuff like "who owns this problem?" but it actually seems quite good.
• Hi, I'm repetitive.
• I found that the best way to not fight with my family is to live 3000 miles away from any of them.
• It depends on what you fight about. If you fight about the dishes or housework (who's turn it is to do what), make a chart. When you do something, sign and date the chart under the appropriate activity. Then everyone knows who cleaned up last. (Seriously. I've known romantic relationships (not my own, alas) that were saved by this little chart.) You may just have to train yourself (and your brothers) to step back when a fight begins and ask "is this a life-or-death situation?" Sometimes people just get into the habit of fighting, and you have to make a conscious effort to get out of it. (That is, of course, assuming that you and your brothers genuinely like each other. If there are basic personality conflicts that lead to dislike, this maybe won't work.)
• Since I was an only child, it amazed me when watching my ex-husband and his 4 siblings fall back into the roles they'd played when they were growing up whenever they got together. This was when their ages ranged from early 30s to early 40s. It must take real shared awareness and determination to change that. (Time apart didn't really work in their case, as far as I could tell, but they could at least be their grown-up selves when not in "the family is all together" situations.)
• In my experience, the arguing and fighting drop nearly to nil if you move out (so long as you're all reasonably well adjusted), even if it's not very far. Not HAVING to be around each other tends to defuse a lot of sibling tension. But if you have no choice but to live with them, one thing that helps is different schedules. Minimize the time you're up each others' noses, and that can help.
• Well, yes, I realize that avoiding fighting involves moving out. And would have liked it if Bossy brother's plans to move to another place hadn't fallen apart. I'm not trying to avoid conflicts, just to deal with them. Thank you for your advice, all. I'll check out that book tracicle.
• Richer: Have you ever gotten them aside one at a time in a peaceful moment and ASKED them if it bothers THEM? Have you ever discussed the fighting in a calm way and told them how it disturbs you? If they're just fine with it, you may have to keep turning your tongue (or cheek) to keep the peace. Perhaps it upsets them also, and you could have a good discussion with each of them alone, and a productive session with the three of you together afterwards. You're probably doomed if they look at you in amazement and say, "That's the way we do things/bond/enjoy each other's company." Perhaps they'd agree to take it outside or into another room and close the door. Alternatively, you can remove yourself from the room. The only other suggestion I might have is to hire a mediator to act as a go-between in discussions with the three of you. Seems like there is a lack of basic courtesy in your constant wrangling that needs to be addressed. There's the issue of noise and disturbance first of all. If you're students, there needs to be peace and quiet for focus and study. Also, you wouldn't fight with a friend about shallots in the cooking, and family should be treated with the same consideration. Even if it just comes down to the basics--I'm cooking, let me do it my way. Your choice is to eat it or not. Next time you can make it your way, and I'll have the same choice. The idea of a contract for chores or behavior can work if all parties agree and are honest. Perhaps you can designate "territories" that are shared and off-limits. Can you figure out what the majority of fights start from and what they center around? Perhaps you all just need to get out more and do more physical activity or spend more time out with other people. Physical activity is good for you, it gets you out, you can be social or not, and you'll be too tired to fight. If all else fails, give them a three months paid introduction to one of the oriental martial arts, and maybe they'll learn self-control. (Do it yourself, and maybe you'll develop patience and tolerance) Good luck.
• Sounds awfully similar.
• though admittedly not by much... sorry, just a weird surfing coincidence.
• Dress them up like bees.
• My wife sent me this guide on our first anniversary: Fighting Fair It's about fighting couples, but can be used in all close-tied fighting situations. I hope it helps you too.
• Mock them.
• Fart in their general direction.
• 1) I'm impressed that your brothers cook so well as to argue about shallots. I have only a vague idea what they are. 2) It sounds like it's mostly between them, is there a chance to talk to them both separately about it? Maybe if you let them know how this is stressing you, they will back down. Maybe also you could kind of hint to the bossy one to be less bossy, telling him that #3 won't be reasonable otherwise. But in the meantime tell #3 to be more flexible, because he knows how #2 can be. That way they both think of themselves not as the one with the problem, but flexing around the other one. It may be a way to save face for them. My mother does this with my brother and I.
• I now realize one of the limitations of an English language website. I kind of know what to do (thanks all), but I have to translate it into French because that's the language of my brothers. And translation ain't easy.
• Wow, that guy a SA sounds like an asshole. Anyone who wears ear plugs constantly around the house is an asshole. Anyone who wears them while having conversations with someone else is a super mega asshole. I can't believe nobody called him on that shit. That guy's brother has an obligation to society to call him an asshole every time they speak.
• (that guy at SA)
• I can't hear you, Knicks, I've got a banana in my ear.
• WHAT IF I TALK LIKE THIS?
• French? French-Canadian, huh? That explains the shallots. Also, what is to 'turn one's tongue'? I gather this to be a translation of a French expression. Meaning, I assume, to use sharp words, or to descend to manner of discussion against one's usual nature. In any case, a nice expression that I intend to remember and use. Also: Richer, kick them in the testicles. I find this results in a cessation of contrarian activity for the time being. If they get up again in great ire, repeat.
• Study aikido. Seriously. By the time you get home, you will be too tired to engage in discussions, or won't like to play the game of enabler. Final result: everlasting peace (or something similar). And if you do get into an argument, at least you will have the skills to kick ass :) (Please, French speaking brothers of Richer: I not condone fighting with brothers, since they are the ones that will end up paying my bills. But be careful, because Richer will learn this aikido thingie, and will be very dangerous).
• Chyren: I read the phrase "to turn one's tongue" as being the equivalent of speaking softly to deflect anger or turning the other cheek. Richer: You must hope us. Clear up the mystery.
• I sort of figured it was a cross between turning the other cheek and holding one's tongue.
• Regarding the dude on SA & his earplugs - yeah, but his brother sounded like a bigger asshole with a serious anger problem & sense of entitlement. Brother or not, you don't sit in someone else's apartment in front of their computer and scream at them because said computer is not set up for your game-playing convenience, or because they aren't fast enough in doing so to suit you. I thought that was the salient issue of the thread, and was surprised that it didn't seem to come up in any of the responses. Those two need to not live anywhere near each other; already they only live in the same building, rather than "together." But I dunno what to tell Richer! I'm an only child. (Is my relief palpable?) Not exactly bursting with advice on generalized sibling conflicts. I think "move out" or "learn aikido" or "all of you learn some conflict management skills" are all good bits of advice.
• Back when I was in the nest, we just waited til the weakest sibling died and then fed on his corpse. Now I've learned to fly I just hang out in the park and eat mostly worms. But I sure miss the taste of freshly-expired avian sibling. Caw!
• Holding's one tongue is what I meant.
• Oh, is that all? Nevertheless, a good expression.