September 07, 2005

• You know what? I really think Joss Whedon is over-rated.
• Some dude at work gave me a copy of the first season of Firefly on DVD. When he asked me if I watched it, I told him I couldn't seem to find it. The next day, he gave me another burnt copy. Any creative excuses on why I won't watch it? Outright saying "this will give us a subject over which to have a painful, unwanted conversation which I'd rather avoid" seems a bit rude.
• DVD player is busted? Encoding doesn't work on your player? You just aren't into Whedon and don't want to spend the time watching something you're not interested in? You'll wait for the movie? Angel's finally back on TV here (too late for us to watch, but we have a fancy-pantsy DVD/HDD-recorder now, woo-woo!) and considering my Buffy-fanness I am disappointed with the most recent Angel eps. I think Joss has watched too much Farscape, or something.
• Interesting tracicle. I find the last season of Angel some of the best episodes they did.
• Never heard of Joss Whedon or Firefly. But now I really want to see Firefly, because the glowing praise it's getting in here.
• I watched most of one episode of Firefly. It was painful. But others do seem to have liked it, so take a look as YMMV.
• I'm a huge Buffy and Angel fan, but Firefly was just unwatchable. I really tried. Got the first two discs, and couldn't make it through the second one. I only got that far because I was convinced it would suck me in, just as the other two shows had done. But it failed. What did I miss?
• My fiance loves Firefly, and has filled up the Netflix queue with it. I think it's dumb myself, but I think that about everything Josh Whedon puts out.
• I wasn't ever a huge Buffy or Angel fan, just never got the opportunity to watch. As someone who can speak a smattering of Klingon, I have to say that Firefly is Science Fiction the way God intended it to be. It is smart, well-written, set in an excellent universe, and the characters are engaging. The actors are great, the cast dynamics flow superbly, and I kinda want to mary Kaylee. This movie is going to rock so hard it hurts. On the other hand, I know I'll be disappointed because it won't be able to answer half my questions.
• Can I just once again take the opportunity to say that IMO, Buffy et al makes Star Trek: Voyager look good. Thank you, and goodnight.
• Firefly is a tv show for Xmen? That sounds cool.
• Nevermind
• When I saw "this movie" I thought Xmen.
• I will second Weezel's comments. Firefly is very, very, very good. Good sci-fi, great writing, nice, overarching plot, and it's quite clear that the characters were multidimensional from the point they appeared on the screen. Generally, it takes a season or so for that to happen. Apparently it's not for everyone, though I did not realize that before reading this thread, but unless you are fearful of wasting your time on something that apparently some people don't like, it's really well worth the attempt.
• But, see, that's the thing, I did make the attempt. I watched at least 5 or 6 episodes, and still wasn't interested. I didn't hate it, I was just bored by it and couldn't be bothered to watch any more. I have to wonder if I'm missing something huge considering so many people love it.
• I question whether it is 'good sci-fi'. There are certain questions that arise concerning the size and nature of their planetary system(s) and their use of FTL that leave big gaping holes in the sci-fi underpinnings. It's kind of like Whedon has ignored some basic things in order to get cowboys in space. Certain questions arise that undermine the premise of the show in some ways, although to be honest I have only watched a few episodes, but the websites on the show don't seem to offer the answers I want either, so I'm left with that opinion. Also, -1 cowboys in space.
• Also, -1 Mal is Han Solo.
• Never watched it. May have to go looking for torrents to judge for myself, as a whole lot of people seem to think it's wonderful, but the movie trailer didn't really impress me that much.
• I may give Firefly a shot, but I doubt it could be as well-made (writing and story wise) as Blake's 7. Not to get on some "My SF character can beat up your SF character" debate, but if you're looking for a well done show with excellent characters, good storylines and creative, if not well-funded, special effects, you should check it out.
• I guess it depends what you want out of your sci-fi. Great stories, a bit of an X-Files-ish "fight the Man" undertone, Whedon humor (which you either love, or you don't), yes. Actual laws of physics & spaceflight, not so much. (And there's the whole "if the US and China ended up being the only remaining superpowers why are there no Asian people?" thing.) It is definitely the sort of thing you either love, or don't get. I don't know if it's Whedon-specific because I never did watch Buffy.
• Another big Firefly fan here. I think Whedon writes good female characters. In fact, he's one of a very few writers who can see women as competent (which wouldn't seem like much to ask, but...). At the same time, the women's strength doesn't come at the expense of the men, who are also cool. I agree with thursday's take on the show, too. A friend of mine got to see the movie early, and she absolutely loved it. She was a big fan of the series, but a friend of hers who also got to go, but who hadn't seen the series, also loved it. A word to those of you who might check the series out: Watch them in the right order (not the order in which they aired, the order in which they were shot). Fox aired them all out of order, which makes the show confusing and frustrating (imagine watching Lost all out of order). I didn't like the show nearly as well on tv as I did on dvd, when I could watch it right. /end geek rant
• There's an X-men 2?
• Yes. Fabulous female characters, especially compared to the tripe that's usually on TV. I would marry Kaylee too, and I'm a straight girl. Also, you have to watch at least two episodes. The pilot is important backstory, but not the most reliable for sucking people in. *hums The Man They Call Jayne*
• I never got a chance to see Firefly, because of the vagaries of broadcast TV, however, I loved, loved, loved both Buffy & Angel, and Whedon did a pretty good run on the X-Men LS he wrote. I would have been interested to see what he did with the movie, even if there wasn't any Beast in it. I'm getting a Babylon 5 vibe about Firefly from some of the comments. The pilot wasn't that engrossing, started out slow, but once you start watching, it sucks you in.
• The more distance you get from Firefly, the worse it looks (relatively speaking; I still love it). I can totally understand why a lot of people wouldn't enjoy it; the reason why I missed its entire broadcast run was because I heard "cowboys in space" and thought "stupid idea" (cf. Space Rangers). And admittedly, while extremely well done, many episodes are exactly that: cowboys in space ("Heart Of Gold" is really just an unfortunate episode in that sense, and "Shindig" is only marginally better). The most successful episodes of the series, I think, were the ones that had the antiquated western motif firmly in the background, like "Out Of Gas" and "Ariel." The real problem was that a) the series had just finished introducing all of the characters when it was cancelled (the main cast, at nine, was unusually large), and b) there simply wasn't enough time to explore the universe further. No explanation of a bunch of symbols and messages hinting at various subplots; very little backstory on the Alliance/rebel conflict, and how that's played out to date; and if nothing else, not enough variety of settings and plots. Remember how shudderingly crappy the first season of Star Trek: TNG was? Yeah. Plus Firefly attracts obsessive-compulsive sci-fi geeks like bees to honey. Joss Whedon fans in general scare the hell out of me; it reminds me of the Tori Amos fans that would make miniature dolls of Tori and sell them at concerts. Cree-pee.
• Also, for Vera, which pilot did you watch? The pilot that Fox aired was problematic on a number of levels; the original pilot, which Fox aired just after they'd cancelled the show, was a much better introduction. In fact, it was how I found Firefly in the first place; I was flipping through the channels and saw Wash playing with his toy dinosaurs, and stuck around for the whole two hours.
• I think Whedon is the most average writer ever. I couldn't get into Buffy and the way all the "cool kids" talk about how great it is makes me actively resist liking it. As far as I'm concerned Xena did all the cool things people say Buffy did, did them better and did them first. Firefly is really very very ...ok. I don't think it is all that much better than say, Andromeda. I like both shows, but don't really see why people are so apeshit over Firefly. Farscape kicks the ass of Firefly every which way. Battlestar Galactica is better as well. Babylon 5 is better too. As far as Whedon's comic book writing, I haven't read any of it, but I'm no fan of the X-Men. The only time I read the comics were when Morrison was writing it. I found the X-Men movies to be ok. The second one was certainly better than the first.
• saw the trailer for "Serenity" the other day. It sounded like it was written by someone who spoke English as a third or fourth language.
• chrominance: I've never seen any of Firefly at all. The pilot I was talking about was B5. *Hides the homemade Joss Whedon dolls*
• I couldn't get into Buffy and the way all the "cool kids" talk about how great it is makes me actively resist liking it. I've got a theory - that you're a demon: A snarky demon ... no, something isn't right there. I've got a theory: that you are dreamin' And we're all stuck inside your whiny little nightmare.
• I like it here. It's spiffy.
• Cowboys in Space But ALL Science Fiction is cowboys in space. Well, westerns in space, anyway. That's how it started, that's how it will end. You might have bigger horses with more people riding them, the Sherrif might have more power and respect, but it's still cowboys in space. That's why I love Whedon, is he saw that and went "Shit, why not? Let's just run with it." I think Firefly takes a lot of the best of both worlds, Westerns and Sci-Fi, and combines them nicely. Whedon said, "I wanted to make a show that took the future, combined it with the past, and made it feel like the present." I think he did that nicely. Also, -1 Mal is Han Solo. When I tell people about the series, I describe it as Star Wars with Han Solo as the main character, no Jedis, and no aliens. That's part of what makes it cool. Star Wars was cowboys in space, too
• Solaris was also cowboys in space. And The Man in the High Castle.
• The Man in the High Castle was more like Thundercats with Nazis. I haven't read it.
• Every story by Ballard is just a teenage pirate murder mystery.
• When I tell people about the series, I describe it as Star Wars with Han Solo as the main character, no Jedis, and no aliens. Holy crap, now I have to see it. I've only ever seen it described as "live-action Cowboy Bebop evil Americans ripping off the Holy Land blah blah blah blah blah," and that's 10% description and 90% wankery. Full-on nerd, no use denying that; line for haterz forms that way.
• Oh, and VeraGemini? KICK ASS screen name. Love me some BOC. Just had to say it. "Oh no more horses horses We're gonna swim like a fish...
• Except the whole "literal space cowboy" thing is nothing new from 1993's Space Rangers, to 1979's Secret Empire which was itself inspired by 1935's The Phantom Empire a serial starring singing cowboy Gene Autry. Of course there are no new ideas under the sun, so I can't blame Whedon for that.
• I find it hard to figure out how nerds end up hating firefly. which isn't to say I don't think it's possible. i just can't grok it. I was resistent to watching it when it aired - I saw one episode and was left confused and going "cowboys, eh?". And, well, yeah - Whedon fans are scary. I once was a sound tech guy at a buffy related fundraiser for something whoooooboy that was weird. But I grabbed the whole season because I was bored, and after the first couple of episodes really liked it. My girlfriend, who was most attracted to the "it's kinda like bebop" aspect, but otherwise wasn't interested, ended up really liking it, too. I would've loved to see the characters developed more, and of course the "oooh mysterious stuff" aspects. But mostly I really did end up attached to the characters and ship.
• "Into the hole, In which she planned to ditch me.. Thanks Weezel. Obviously, I love me some BOC too.
• What's BOC? I googled, and when I saw this link I thought I got the bull's eye. But alas, no.
• Blue Oyster Cult. You know, "more cowbell".
• Ahhh... thanks, Vera.