September 02, 2005

• For an excellent Bigger Picture analysis, see the always interesting Billmon
• Nothing cheapens a tragedy like opportunistic political sloganeering. Please.
• Ugh.
• Goetter, I have not taken the time to review all the links in ian would say's post, but if the shoe fits, then it is perfectly appropriate for him to make a political statement. It would not be the first time that this administration would have been caught sleeping at th wheel.
• "if the shoe fits, then it is perfectly appropriate for him to make a political statement. It would not be the first time that this administration would have been caught sleeping at th wheel." Absolutely. Man. Anderson Cooper finally lost it on air. He stopped talking mid-sentence, trying not to cry while introducing a story about a family finding out their newborn baby was ok after four days of not knowing much other than he'd been taken to Charity Hospital.
• This post is all about the political statement. It isn't about the links. It's crap and it shouldn't be on the front page of MoFi.
• It's not partisan when it's true and relevant.
• Well I agree with the post. It is a shame, and they should have planned for it and executed better. The news is horrific.
• 'It's crap" The truth is crap? Are you serious? That's how this happened in the first place.
• Welcome to the reality based community.
• Why is mentioning the ineptitude of an administration "crap"? Are all posts that have political content "crap"? The Bushies have fucked up again, and this time they can't blame it on some bogey man. They had lots of warnings about the possible devistation and have lagged behind on doing something about it. This might even be the tipping point for the red states to see how inept these fuckers are.
• The desperate in New Orleans and the incoming National Guard and troops have been set on a collision course by the ineptitude of how this was handled. Somebody will start shooting. If the troops return fire, inevitably some of the wrong people will be shot, and the nation is watching. They need to handle this like neurosurgery because a mistake could set off a terrible, terrible chain of events that could spread to other cities.
• Don't forget to Contact your senators.
• Look, I'm angry with Bush. That doesn't mean I want to take out my anger on the front page of MonkeyFilter. The problems with this post should be obvious. It's not true that Bush is responsible for the flooding. Maybe if the administration hadn't cut SELA's budget, things wouldn't have been as bad. Maybe. But, you know, maybe not. No one knows. But you wouldn't know that from this post. Then there's this: "PLEASE DONATE AND HELP, OUR GOVERNMENT IS NOT." The more inside is even worse. Criticizing Bush for playing an acoustic guitar? Criticizing Condi for shopping for shoes? "Seriously: You can't expect everyone to don hair shirts and roll around in broken glass just because thousands of their fellow Americans are suffering." Would it help if you saw Bush and Rice in a nakedly political photo-op with their hands dirty? Oh, and look at the RNC's main page. Does it look like the estate tax is all they care about? This post is all about itself. And that's crap.
• This is crap because of the guitar, the shoes, the lame but irrelevant RNC rabble-rousing letter, and the bogus Canadian aid claim. The signal disappears in the noise.
• Regarding: the last link; I'd still rather donate directly to the Red Cross. Why do these folks have to be in the middle? It kind of reminds me of those phone banks which keep calling me to donate to charities I've never heard of, and when I ask them how much of what I would send is for administrative costs (i. e. them)they say 80%. So, dropcash might just be looking for some sort of narcissistic credit for collecting what the ARC could have done by itself, or are they collecting some sort of processing fee?
• Neurosurgery? Look everyone got the hell out of dodge, what more could anyone ask for?
• Never donate to charities, they always take at least 50% for admin fees. If the cause is worth it give directly to the source. Unless they are green peace, they can't refuse.
• some sort of narcissistic credit Bingo, path. "Hurricane Katrina destroyed thousands of lives. Together, we're raising $1 million for the American Red Cross and prove that the liberal blogosphere can help our fellow citizens." See also.
• Liberals? Republicans? It doesn't matter who helps. It's not about politics. It's about reality. People are dying right now. The goverment response has been poor at best. Thus the post. I gave money today. I hope it helps.
• While I may be liberal, I haven't ever been so pissed off and upset with the US administration as I am now. Sorry, I have family down there. I pay attention to the news. And even the mainstream media is in agreement. The administration fucked this up, is fucking this up, and the response from all in the administration has been nothing short of callous. Show me otherwise.
• And while my emotions do taint my posts in this discussion, the content is true.
• More on dropcash and the liberal blogosphere's efforts to raise funds. All proceeds go directly to the Red Cross.
• It's true and it's relevant. There's no basis for complaint. It's narcistic to act like your above recognizing another administration mistake. Bush is acting like this is no big deal. He's blowing them off. When you complain about us noticing this, you're forced to take the stance that his actions are proper. That's ridiculous stance to take, and a foolish spot to place yourself.
• Nice. You're either with us or against us, huh?
• Just heard someone on MSNBC say that New Orleans may be closed until next year. Maybe they just pulled that out of their ass, but I think we don't even know how bad this is yet. Yikes.
• Guitar and shoes are kinda crap complaints. THIS, however is a smoking gun. To wit: Levees were fortified after floods in 1927 and 1965, and Congress approved another ambitious upgrade after a 1995 flood killed six people. Since 2001, the Army Corps has requested $496 million for that project but the Bush administration only budgeted $166 million, according to figures provided by the office of Louisiana Democratic Sen. Mary Landrieu (news, bio, voting record). Congress ultimately approved $250 million for the project during that time period. Another project designed to shore up defenses along Lake Pontchartrain was similarly underfunded, as the administration budgeted $22 million of the $99 million requested by the Corps between 2001 and 2005. Congress boosted spending on that project to $42.5 million, according to Landrieu's office.
• Does anyone know the timetable as to when more National Guard or troops are to arrive in New Orleans, and what their stated objective is?
• Supposedly 1500 Nat'l Guard MPs arrive today, another 1500 tomorrow and another 1500 on Sat. They will be directly involved in law enforcement. There are also teams from many other services arriving and already there. The Navy ships (3 or 4?) including floating hospitals should arrive by Sunday... maybe Monday. The New Orleans airport is already receiving incoming fixed wing aircraft with supplies and there is a (currently overwhelmed) medical unit there.
• Sweet baby jebus, but I’m glad Bush changed his mind. Originally, I thought I heard a sound-byte where he said “America would take care of our own”, basically turning down aid from other countries. Someone, please tell me I wrongly interpreted the comment to mean he originally turned down Canada’s and other country’s offer of assistance. Please tell me his administration isn’t so foolish.
• Well, initial reports in a crisis are often wrong. I've heard both that some countries aid has been rejected (Canada, Russia, Venezuela), and that others is going to be accepted. I guess we'll find out in the days, weeks to come.
• ian would say: it's fine that the funds will go to the ARC, but why not just donate directly? What purpose does the intermediary serve, apart from delaying the money actually getting to the Red Cross? I'd like them better if they had just said "We're donating what we can, you donate what you can. Send it all to the charities that will be directly supporting the Gulf Coast. We like the Red Cross, and they can probably react more quickly than some others, but do what you think best. BUT JUST GIVE AS MUCH AS YOU CAN, AND THEN 10% MORE.
• path: Totally valid, as is the other criticisms directed against my choice of donation linkage. I chose a partisan site - sorry. I chose the site because I agree with James Wolcott - now is the time for politics.
• Images of the ravaged Crescent Cityvia the blue Image 8 sums up Bush's response. It's really incredible.
• I just hope the Red Cross is a major presence. Because I donated hella money. It's all I can do.
• Um... I hate to toot my own horn, and I know basically anyone can post a link to an article off the wires. But did anyone see my comment above? To me, evidence that Bush's funding cuts basically caused a disaster that will end up being worse than 9/11 is kind of more interesting than guitars and shoes, and slightly more damning than a weather report.. here it is again for anyone interested...
• I second drjimmy11's link. The third link of the FPP is about that, but drjimmy11's link states the issue much better.
• "Would it help if you saw Bush and Rice in a nakedly political photo-op with their hands dirty?" Why yes. Yes, it would. Such 'nakedly political' photo-ops are a visually effective way of quickly saying "I understand the severity of the situation and am trying to help." Playing guitar for a photo-op does not. Nor, oddly enough, does shoe-shopping. Rational adults understand that the individual contribution of a leader in such a situation is miniscule, but symbolic acts have power. If nothing else, they can help the morale of those suffering by letting them know those in charge are at least aware of what's going on.
• My understanding is that no one knows whether the upgrades would have helped because no one knows what, exactly, went wrong with the levees. Yet. Of course, it might well finish Bush regardless. Anyway, apropos of the discussion of troops: chilling thoughts from some astute MeFites. *squeezes thread, adds sugar*
• Would it help if you saw Bush and Rice in a nakedly political photo-op with their hands dirty? Not gonna happen as long as Condi's busy buying $400 shoes on 5th Avenue.
• (RTFP, HWingo.)
• Police are deserting their units in New Orleans; some stations have lost as many as 60% of their officers. They're holing up in their stations to defend the buildings. People in Lafayette are apparently arming themselves fearing the spread of violence from NO and residents of Baton Rouge, whose population has doubled with the influx of refugees are said to be 'losing their goodwill'. The next 48 hours are crucial.
• This is scary; smart monkeys please keep this going.
• I just heard on the TV that some significant numbers of New Orleans police are just quitting and leaving. I'm sure they are in the shit without (at least up til now) backup, but still, if they feel it's that bad ...
• whups. I didn't preview! Sorry moneyjane.
• Relief workers confront 'urban warfare'. Once again, see The Interdictor and read his last 3 days of posts to find out what's going on in NO. You'd think, with our extensive knowledge of social political history, with the current situation in Iraq, with the looting that's taken place after major natural disasters in the past... you'd think that being faced down with a cat 5 that the current administration would AT LEAST prepare some kind of contigency plan and be ready to mobilize troops. They didn't, and at this moment, NO is in a complete state of anarchy. It's even gone so far that a minister declared it a sovereign nation and is seeking foreign help (can't remember or find link).
• From last night

  Over 30 officers have quit over the last 3 days. Out of 160 officers in his district maybe 55 or 60 are working. He hasn't seen several since Sunday. HQ is closed, evacuated. No phones to contact them. "HQ, be advised, we're going 10 7." "Ok, y'all coming back on???" "We don't know."

• I am checking back religiously. I am also praying to something, but I don't know who. This doesn't have the cachet of 9/11, because God did it to poor black people and there isn't really any appeal process in place right now. there I said it.
• Yes, the National Guard will be killing Americans because these Americans are desperate and feeling abandoned. They've watched people die around them. It's virtually inevitable. They will shoot at armed men sent into New Orleans who will shoot back. This is the moment it will become unimaginable.
• The Red Cross is not the only agency on the ground that needs help to deal with this disaster. While they are one of the largest orgs present, they are not single-handedly supporting this effort. There's a list here of some other organizations that need help...please consider sending your donation to one of the other 126 agencies listed there.
• I am outraged, MJ. These people were apparently expendible. I might be a tinfoiler, but I used to be a stalwart RePublican.
• October 2004 National Geographic Hello Washington, please get your head out of your ass.
• It's like watching that Alex Colville painting where the horse runs on the tracks through the darkness towards the train.
• Congress seems to be trying for the high road here: Since 2001, the Army Corps has requested $496 million for that project but the Bush administration only budgeted $166 million... Congress ultimately approved $250 million for the project during that time period. Another project designed to shore up defenses along Lake Pontchartrain was similarly underfunded, as the administration budgeted $22 million of the $99 million requested by the Corps between 2001 and 2005. Congress boosted spending on that project to $42.5 million... What they don't mention is the hundreds of millions of dollars of "homeland security" funds dished out all across the country to e.g. buy Armored Personnel Carriers in ButtCreek Wyoming. So was that the White House or was that Congress?
• I'm just waiting for the news that Bush and Rice were seen at Crawford Texas in 2004 reading a report titled "Hurricane Determined to Attack Inside The United States." (sheesh)
• Sorry, but this has convinced me that now is not the time to debate the politics of this event. We can get all buffed up later on our abilites to second guess all those politicians and agencies who've let us down, but right now, people need help. Yeah, it should have been there immediately, but until NOLA and other gulf cities are clear of just plain folks looking for a place to rest and getting supplies, and the dead aren't rotting on the sidewalks, or in the water, and families aren't torn apart, and... Can't we focus on the real problem? For me, the emphasis on "finding who's to blame" just lets us avoid the horror of realizing who's not to blame, and what they're going through. So, if you haven't contributed to some charity or other, I suggest you do so. And, if you think local, state or federal government have fucked, up, I suggest you get in touch with them. I know I will. But there are more important issues now.
• Not sure how reliable this source is, but Iraq-tested soldiers in New Orleans with shoot to kill orders "They have M-16s and they are locked and loaded."
• Late breaking news guys, this is bad news for the US in the next week. When Bush made his speech today, he said people should refrain from buying gas if they didn't need to. Bad move. What do people do when you tell them there might be a shortage? Exactly. It's possible that you may not be able to fill up to go to work next week.
• I didn't know about the requests for fortifying the levees. Maybe BushCo thought it was a low priority, given the drumbeat. Still, somebody should have been awake at the switch. It's what we pay them for.
• God help these people. God help all of us. God is a terrorist.
• Pearls from the director of the Federal Emergency Management Agency, Michael Brown: >Brown said those who ignored the city's mandatory evacuation order bore some responsibility. >"I think the death toll may go into the thousands and, unfortunately, that's going to be attributable a lot to people who did not heed the advance warnings," Michael Brown told CNN. If it's appropriate for him to say that, I think maybe it's okay for us to say that /Bush/Rice/this guy/pick your favorite/ is a fuckwit.
• I agree with you, StoryBored. That was a bad move and, as Andrew Sullivan notes, rather Carteresque. But I doubt the situation would have been much different regardless. Brad DeLong highlights a revealing exchange on NPR. Might want to read it. On preview: What a dumbass, to say that.
• Sorry, but moneyjane's article needs to be copied and pasted here: 02/09/2005 01:51 BATON ROUGE (AFP) Iraq-tested soldiers in New Orleans with shoot to kill orders A detachment of 300 Arkansas National Guard troops landed in anarchic New Orleans on Thursday, with the authorization to shoot and kill "hoodlums" Louisiana Governor Kathleen Blanco said. "Three hundred of the Arkansas National Guard have landed in the city of New Orleans," said Blanco. "These troops are fresh back from Iraq, well trained, experienced, battle tested and under my orders to restore order in the streets," Blanco said. "They have M-16s and they are locked and loaded. "These troops know how to shoot and kill and they are more than willing to do so if necessary and I expect they will," said Blanco.
• The veracity of MJ's article is confirmed on CNN, for what it's worth.
• Thinking about it, you're right Smo. Bush is stuck. If he didn't tell people to save gas, he would have been attacked for it. It's likely we'll see gas hoarding spreading through the States. In the worst case it could lead to some runs on grocery stores etc. Hopefully this doesn't happen. This is the danger when governments show lack of leadership. The loss of confidence by the people results in the famed "everyone for his/herself" response and soon enough we've got anarchy. The spotlight's been on Bush, but I'd wager that the City of New Orleans government, with its famously corrupt police force added enormous fuel to this particular social fire.
• On the other hand, comments like this are hardly constructive, and demonstrate a pretty low compassion threshhold. Thankfully, not all of us conservatives are the uncaring monsters we're sometimes accused of being. On another note, Bush and co. surely knew this was coming. As has lots of other administrations. Since 1965, specifically, when Betsy hit home. New Orleans has been on notice since then, and I'm quite certain state and local administrators (as well as local taxpayers) are somewhat responsible for the upkeep and maintenance of the region. Whilst it's true the federal government could have done more, so could everyone else. However, if the federal government uses this event to coordinate and push changes in how areas conduct emergency preparedness, or steps in to conduct massive overhauls of natural or manmade defense systems in place against natural disasters (which may cost more than a few bucks), I hope to God not to hear a lot of bitching about it.
• On f8x's comment... the politics of this situation is not, not, not a liberal versus conservative issue. This is entirely an issue of the current administration, which happens to be conservative, and has happened to show the worst possible leadership in the worst time possible for the US. Right now there are no liberals, there are no conservatives, there are only concerned as fuck citizens who want to help, and want answers as to why this situation has turned into what it is.
• ian, my second comment was directed at the content of the link I posted. If you read it, that seemed like a very angry liberal who is now demanding that we (conservatives) open up our wallets (as if we haven't done so already). So, just so it's clear, not everyone sees this as a non-partisan issue. And in many cases, I see the accusations against Bush to be somewhat disingenuous.
• How do you explain Bush cutting SELA funding? It's all in his lap. He fucked up.
• *crickets*
• However, if the federal government uses this event to coordinate and push changes in how areas conduct emergency preparedness, or steps in to conduct massive overhauls of natural or manmade defense systems in place against natural disasters (which may cost more than a few bucks), I hope to God not to hear a lot of bitching about it. Isn't that something Bush should have done after 9/11 -- prepare for a large scale catastrophe? Isn't that something he should have done with all that money for Homeland Security? Just imagine if this was a large scale terrorist attack. Would the response be similarly incompetent? That's what disturbs me most. This is a failure to provide the basic functions of government. And pretty much everyone has said so. (I don't expect f8x to answer that or Argh's point. As EB noted on MeFi in a comment I can't find, this has got to be for Bush supporters like what Clinton's admission of guilt was for his supporters.)
• How do you explain Bush cutting SELA funding? It's easy to blame Bush for that, and I do. But I think a significant part of the tragedy that we're seeing is due to state and city government not having an adequate emergency preparedness plan. They knew for many years of the possibility of this type of disaster that is particular to New Orleans, so why did they not have backup communications for the police? Why didn't they have plans to immediately get in the Nat'l Guard (who have to come at the request of the Governor?). Why didn't they have an effective evacuation plan? Why didn't they have a plan to clear the roads and mend broken bridges and highways to allow help in faster? Why weren't more emergency supplies stored locally so they would be on hand? If they did have such plans, what went wrong? Are all our cities at such risk? Should we all be asking our local governments what they would do in a disaster? A couple days ago Gov. Blanco said on TV that she was really disappointed that the airport shut down Sat. evening (I think), and that so many flights were cancelled and could not get people out that way. Why wasn't the airport kept open and flights chartered to fly people out?
• Based on f8x's link, I have to laugh at someone actually stating that this crisis falls upon the republicans who voted for Bush to pay for and save the situation. In my perfect world, that might happen (I kid), but, alas, this is so far from my perfect world.
• Argh and Smo, I'm not about to defend a budget cut for levee projects for the Corps of Engineers. Certainly, they would have helped. And for certain, NO has reaped some of the results of that. Bush will and should face the consequences of that budget cut. BUT, the point I'm trying to make is that NO has been aware of the problem for many many years, and this is not the first time it's been in danger. Bush isn't responsible for poor planning and lackadaisical efforts to correct a bad situation. Large-scale terrorist attacks can, in theory, be avoided through proper use of intel and an effective national security system. Hurricanes cannot be prevented nor avoided, only reacted to, and in a limited sense, prepared for. This does not guarantee safety or the lack of civil anarchy in the wake of disaster. And in one sense, it does not matter how much money you throw at a future natural disaster.
• No, what matters is how much money you take away from disaster prevention measures. We see the results today.
• I think a significant part...is due to state and city government not having an adequate emergency preparedness plan But isn't that the point of FEMA? We're actually seeing philosophy hitting the real world, right before our eyes. The philosophical stance of the Bush administration is that "federal disaster assistance may have evolved into...an oversized entitlement program...Expectations of when the federal government should be involved...beyond what is an appropriate level." This stance is based on the laissez-faire conservative philosophy (note: not all conservatives) that people should take care of themselves. But what if your local government is doing a poor job at disaster preparedness - are you then consigned to your doom, too bad charlie? What if you were working hard privately to try and improve disaster planning in your region but hadn't been able to make much impact on your local government? What if you were so busy contributing to the economy by working hard growing your small business that you didn't have time to even be aware that local disaster planning had fallen by the wayside? Is the point of a federal government to step in and help encourage certain standards in those situations? Or should people simply expect to be left to their fate; expected to be aware of every possibility and plan accordingly, even if they are economically disadvantaged? Which is preferable? That is the philosophical debate playing itself out before our eyes. I know my own beliefs, but America is a democracy and America must vote for what the majority believe. Do the decisions of this administration reflect a substantial majority's beliefs? A slim majority's? Then there's the fact that even if every local jurisdiction displays perfect competency, it doesn't make economic sense for each state/city to individually prepare to completely cover a disaster of this size. There will only be a few disasters like this scattered around the country over the course of a century. It makes much better economic sense to concentrate resources centrally and deploy them when needed, rather than duplicate expenditures in every jurisdiction for the unlikely disaster event where they'll be needed. /derail and I should mention that I'm feeling the effects of this disaster much more viscerally than this post might suggest
• Why New Orleans is in Deep Water By Molly Ivins. Perhaps it doesn't present much that is new, but it's a decent summary.
• Any other government, it would be expected to collapse and go down amid flames & shame, after their mishandling of current events. But those guys have proved their worth. They know how to weasel out of the worst mudfields and emerge clear, pristine. Or at least, anaccountable. Oh, those images of the crowds on the Superdome, their rage simmering, the rumors of gunpoint control, the menace of diseases, the exodus of suvivors, live on global newschannels... this is a tinfoiler's wetdream gone real.
• When you look back over the meteorological turbulence in this nation's history, it's striking how often political turbulence followed.
• Great link, goetter. The shit is going to hit the fan.
• They are no longer accepting anymore people at the Astrodome in Houston, and people are now being bussed to other cities in Texas.
• it doesn't make economic sense for each state/city to individually prepare to completely cover a disaster of this size I don't think I said that they should be solely responsible for disaster planning. But I do believe they should drive it, and certainly communicate their special local needs to the Feds before something like this happens. For example, the local government should know best what they need for robust emergency communications and reliable evacuation routes, two aspects of failure in the current crisis. Of course in a huge disaster like this they will need to be augmented by National Guard, and will need federal money, but I believe it would be bad to leave the entire disaster planning to the Feds. The original point I was trying to make was that people who solely blame Bush are ignoring that the state and local gov't do and should have a significant role in disaster planning.
• Indeed, goetter. Nature's slaps often shake political systems. When the 1985 Mexico City earthquake showed the un-preparedness and incompetence of local government, society stepped in to fil the void and it widened the cracks on the corrupt state party's stronghold on power. After that, opposition parties fought for and won popular support.
• [I don't think I said that they should be solely responsible for disaster planning. But I do believe they should drive it, and certainly communicate their special local needs to the Feds before something like this happens] And I wasn't accusing you of doing so, and it would certainly be best if knowledgable local experts drove the process. I heartily agree. And what if the locals aren't? Should you be on your own - too bad, so sad, c'est la vie, hope you already paid for your grave? Or should there be a greater effort from national government to try and ensure a level of planning? (To be repetitive) that is the question being played out.
• *Just sending out some good, supportive thoughts to monkeys and non-monkeys alike.*
• I second that. Big hairy goofy monkey hugs for all.
• *mentally beaming invisible rays of hug out to all*
• Latest from Interdictor:

  Three days ago, police and national guard troops told citizens to head toward the Crescent City Connection Bridge to await transportation out of the area. The citizens trekked over to the Convention Center and waited for the buses which they were told would take them to Houston or Alabama or somewhere else, out of this area. It's been 3 days, and the buses have yet to appear. ... There are many infants and elderly people among them, as well as many people who were injured jumping out of windows to escape flood water and the like -- all of them in dire straights. Any attempt to flag down police results in being told to get away at gunpoint. Hour after hour they watch buses pass by filled with people from other areas. Tensions are very high, and there has been at least one murder and several fights. 8 or 9 dead people have been stored in a freezer in the area, and 2 of these dead people are kids.

• Heartbreaking. I can't comment on the political aspect, but I saw a woman on the news last night begging for the National Guard to be sent in. She was terrified. That we should fuck it up even more ourselves after being royally fucked already by Katrina...words fail me.
• Ridiculous. The Bush administration really are comprised of a bunch of fucking incompetant cunts. I notice the Republican spin seems to be that the people left behind 'chose' to stay.. as if they are implying that it is their fault. These fuckers have no idea.
• This will be an all-nighter. I know it's totally illogical but I feel if I shut off the tv or don't keep trying to understand what's happening as it breaks that I'm pushing those people away somehow.
• No, I understand. Seems we haven't been able to turn away from the TV on a few occassions in recent years.
• Railway cars containing unknown cargo are exploding and burning, and clouds of thick smoke are spreading from the explosions.
• New Orleans Mayor Ray Nagin ripped up some ass in a radio interview with WWL. Basically he called the Bush government out, and straight up said, "I don't want to see another goddamn press conference...I want to see them get their asses down here and do something". He also said he probably was in a world of shit for doing so, that, "They probably won't even want to deal with me anymore", and also, "I don't care anymore...people are dying".
• More about Mayor C. Ray Nagin; apparently he's been a bit of a take-no-shit-from-fools kind of guy from the get-go. I'm liking Mr. Nagin very much. New Orleans needs a hero to bitch-slap the shit out of the bastards that stood by and let this happen.
• You can't really say the administration was ignorant of how huge of a disaster this was going to be, since they used the distraction to release 1000 prisoners from Abu Ghraib, knowing the story would be buried by the hurricane come monday.
• Holy crap. That makes me sick.
• The poor bastards working at Charity Hospital must feel like they've lived through a season's worth of "ER" scriptwriter wet dreams.
• The one guy Mayor Nagin thinks might get something done;"They sent us one John Wayne dude...and that's General Honore" I believe this is he.
• So i keep wondering, what exactly did happen to all those buses?
• I think Honore's shiniest badge is the fact that he's from Louisiana. So he's gonna actually give a damn.
• For those who like a pot-stirrer, here's Michael Moore's recent letter to Bush. I am not fond of how he dis-informs his audience at times, (buying ammo at a Canadian K-mart doesn't happen the way he showed it in 'Bowling', I know, I've done it in the past)but he still asks a number of questions that engage my curiosity. P.S. MJ - Try and get some sleep. The situation will only improve with time - I believe you will awake to better news.
• That is sound advice...I'm off to sleep with the sea monsters* and to dream your prediction holds. Not so comfy...they have wicked pointy elbows and get scales in the bed. Also; whale breath.
• Modest suggestion: Level the lowest parts of New Orleans. Pump in mud from the lake to the north. Let it settle. Rebuild. One hundred years ago an unnamed storm destroyed Galveston. 5,000 people died and the suffering must have been like that we are seeing today. Over the next decade the city built a seawall. They also pumped in sand to raise the city. If you could raise your house, or the graves of your fathers, then you did so. Otherwise, they were covered up.
• Mayor Nagin was replayed on the ceeb this morning. Couple of good points: 1. After 9/11, the President was given so many powers to specifically deal with disaster fallout. The Dept. of Homeland Security was created to avoid all of the confusion we saw surrounding 9/11, both in terms of the security aspect, and the emergency response. That the emergency response has completely failed here puts the blame squarely on the shoulders of the guy who designed that system, and is in charge of this failed response. 2. The Mayor was also quite direct in admitting that drugs were fairly easy to come by in New Orleans. The addicts who once had an easy time of things are now looking for a fix. They're going through withdrawal. That's partly why drug stores and pharmacies are being looted -- people are looking for something to take the edge off. Maybe it even explains why people are trying to take down medical evacuation ambulances. A lot of people are desperate in New Orleans right now, and some of those people are really, REALLY fuckin' desperate and crazed out of their minds and carrying guns around. But above all, the mayor said that he didn't know if the lack of aid was the Governor's fault or the President's fault, all he knew was that someone needed to get their ass on a plane and meet the other and get this settled out NOW. Pulling cops off of search and rescue and putting them on duty guarding Wal-Marts speaks volumes about Chimpy's priorities. Who cares about people, we gotta protect our SHIT! So much for his 'Culture of Life'... More and more I'm convinced that this is happening only because these are poor black people who have niether cash nor friends.
• "I'm convinced that this is happening only because these are poor black people who have niether cash nor friends." Of course!
• Looks like Chimpy is going to do another fly-by today. Given the amount of spin, maybe they can hook up a massive dynamo to him, get some electricity going again.
• Please also consider giving blood. It's super easy now: Go here and you find a blood drive (there'll be plenty of them around now) then schedule an appointment online. Never been easier. The donation itself is really not as bad as it seems, I promise. ========================== And thanks ian would say, I actually came to monkeyfilter to post most of the same links you put in your fpp. Did someone already post the one about the Army Corps engineer who was forced to resign because he criticized the spending cuts on anti-flooding projects in the Miss. delta? Jesus Fucking Christ on a bike. Bring back James Lee Witt! Does the FEMA director under this administration have any previous emergency management experience? No.
• You can't really say the administration was ignorant of how huge of a disaster this was going to be, since they used the distraction to release 1000 prisoners from Abu Ghraib, knowing the story would be buried by the hurricane come monday. AMERICA, FUCK YEAH!
• Chimpy is going to do another fly-by today He really should put on a helmet and get in there himself. I might start giving him a little respect if he'd do that.
• FEMA Director tells the sick, the elderly, and the poor people with no cars that it's their fault for not evacuating. AMERICA, FUCK YEAH!
• Apparently, un-, his aides nixed that plan, saying it was too dangerous. (My Ironimeter is starting to overload here...)
• Laura Bush on Chimpy during 9/11: She noted that the president visited Ground Zero right after the attack, stood amid the ruins and rallied rescue workers with a bullhorn. "That really is the way my husband relates to people." she said. "He really likes people. He's very quick to empathize on the way people feel, and that really impresses me." Well, the fly-by is an effective rallying tool, no? Yeah right, chimpy getting in and doing some dirty work! Nice laugh... But a *real* leader would do just that. I know of a few presidents that would have probably already been in there slinging it out...
• It would be nice if Bush had got down there right away a la 9/11, but things being as they are now, I think he'd better stay the fuck away. If people are shooting at rescue workers in frustration, what do you think they'd do if W. rolled into town?
• To be fair, though, a Presidential visit would really just get in the way of the rescue effort. Which begs the question -- WHAT rescue effort? Maybe it's precisely because this operation is so piss-poor that it doesn't have the capacity to fit in a presidential visit. Mind you, intrusive or not, seeing the chief tough it out with everyone else, even if just for a moment, has a value that likely outweighs the incovenience.
• a Presidential visit would really just get in the way of the rescue effort Possibly. But I was seriously thinking it might put a fire under some asses to get the help into New Orleans faster.
• You'd think that the lake being on fire would be fire enough.
• Bill Clinton's defending the administration.
• Just wondering -- where HAS the Red Cross been through all of this? I'm not seeing mention of their operations in NO. Have I missed the news?
• So Bush will be jaunting out and about today. Wonder what that will cost. Ja think if he just turned on the TV and/or listened to advisors that are already there (maybe via a long distance call) he could learn just as much as taking that big jet out and buzzing over the water a couple of times. But that would eliminate the great lunch and a chance at a super shot of Chimpy the Compassionate.
• Bill Clinton's defending the administration. In that excerpt, I see both Clinton, and HW Bush claiming that no one could have forseen the levee breaking. This point has already been adressed above. Since it's already been proven to be a false statement, why post it?
• Just saw Bush on TV from Mobile, Alabama. He said "I'm not looking forward to this trip (to New Orleans)". Yeah, I know what he means but he sure has a doofus's ability to communicate. He's really at a disadvantage when he's unscripted.
• cynnbad: I found this, which offers some information if you can sift through the articles. Seems to be about what you'd expect though- food, water, shelter for evacuees.
• Well, actually, smallish bear, it turns out that the part of the levee that broke...HAD BEEN UPGRADED. It also turns out that whilst, yes, the Bush administration cut funding for SELA, funding has been cut by previous administrations for the same project, including Clinton and Bush Sr. Consider what that article says--that the levee had been fortified with massive amounts of concrete, and was considered more than strong enough to withstand extreme conditions. So in a sense, no one really thought the levee would break. Clinton's statements are spot on.
• Bill Clinton's defending the administration. That Clinton. He's a classy guy. You wonder if it had happened on his watch, if the Other Guys would have returned the favor. But I digress.
• Didn't the Mississippi overrun its banks during Clinton's tenure. Did he get a bunch of crap for cutting levee funding? If he did, it certainly wasn't this vociferous.
• This is some of the worst anti-administration carping I've heard. And for what? Honestly, I can't figure out why everyone is so pissed at him.
• f8x, I think it's the buildup of a lot of frustratinos, crystallized by the amazing tragedy and hard-to-stomach disorganization we're seeing every day here. I don't think the hurricane was Bush's fault...probably...but I also don't think the gov'mt has been doing a very good job since. Granted, this is not an easy thing to deal with, but there's a sense among just about everyone that it shouldn't have been THIS HARD.
• So in a sense, no one really thought the levee would break. This really is not true. The overall rating on the levee system was to withstand a Cat 3 hurricane. Speaking as someone with some experience in geology, the problem of the levees and flooding has been known for decades. Maybe Bush shouldn't take all the blame, but his administration certainly was part of the problem by decreasing funding for Lousiana's coastal flooding problems.
• Because they've never taken this sort of thing seriously and now people are dying. It's systemic with this administration. They refuse to listen to anyone outside of their circle. Prevention and preparedness is boringsville to them unless it has a dash of war games (which why the public health system has no money, except for bioterrorism). Have you read about the FEMA mess? Have you heard the joker appointed by Bush to head the agency speaking to the press? He has no clue what he is talking about. And he's the head of the agency? /pissed off because it really really didn't have to be this way
• Re: Red Cross -- I imagine, like the rest of us, they are/were setting up shelters all over the place, transporting supplies and such, all with the assumption that other agencies, ie; FEMA, state/fed governments, were doing their jobs and actually evacuating people. They are probably wondering where all the people are.
• Tenacious: okay, I can see that. But let's face it. This is the largest, worst natural disaster this country has faced, or probably will face for many years to come. This is not helping. And frankly, despite ian's assertion that this isn't a partisan issue, it has become one on this thread. I'd like to remind you also that the guv'ment doesn't just consist of Bush. The state has a responsibilty, as does the municipal government of NO--in some ways more responsibility than anyone else, since it is "their" city. Sure, the fed could have thrown billions of dollars toward a reparations project...but this would not stop looters and street gangs from taking advantage of the situation. It wouldn't stop the Superdome from being the hellish sanctuary it has become due to broken sewage and water. It wouldn't stop the police force from quitting en masse. And from the level of viciousness displayed here so far, it probably wouldn't have stopped the inevitable piss parade here on MoFi either.
• f8x, you know what pisses me off? Bush's complete lack of reaction to a truly horrifying crisis. Can you really not see it? Really?
• FEMA Director tells the sick, the elderly, and the poor people with no cars that it's their fault for not evacuating. These people are fucking tone deaf, aren't they? It's amazing. It speaks volumes about how out of touch they are. I can't figure out why everyone is so pissed at him. You and I agree on one thing (which is rare), f8x: It's kind of misplaced energy to focus on blaming Bush for this, especially while the situation is critical and energy would be better spent on discussion of how to get aid to New Orleans, etc. And we won't know for sure who's really to blame for what in this until down the road a bit. But this statement is a bit disingenuous, no? Bush has built up a lot of ill will, and for some really solid reasons (at least in the minds of the fact-based population of the U.S., as well as most of the rest of the world). Do we really need to go through the list again?
• If he did, it certainly wasn't this vociferous. Because Clinton wasn't a total fuckup. I'm sorry your president can't use this disaster for political gain like he did with 9/11. Why don't you cry more about it?
• Reading the Clinton/Bush I interview posted here, I have a crazy idea, but I'm serious. I think Bush II should make Clinton his press secretary for Katrina press conferences. Seriously, Clinton is really striving to be a "unifier," and doing a bang-up job. The more he's in front of a microphone telling people these kinds of things, the better it will be for everybody, and not just politically.
• Bill Clinton's defending the administration. Bill Clinton's evil. He believes in working together with the international community, plus, he got a blowjob from an intern. Bush should turn down his offer. See, what's happening here, f8x, is the chickens coming home to roost. You create a poison atmosphere -- which is what the Republican propaganda machine has been doing since Gingrich and Lee Atwater, and have perfected under Karl "Democrats are traitors" Rove -- and eventually you get poisoned, too.
• f8x, for the first time in my lifetime (save Ford), we have a president who has exhibited a complete lack of ability, leadership, fierce intelligence, and in the face of such tragedy, this is the very moment that he needs to be strongest. Unfortunately, he has been quite the opposite. I was impressed with the strength he exhibited during 9/11, at first, until the reality of what was happening set in. You know, I didn't like Bush Sr., but he was a thousands times better than Jr. He would have reacted quite differently. I don't blame Bush for the hurricane, I blame him for not doing everything in his power to save the suffering thousands. But then again, as others have pointed out, they aren't white, so maybe it's no big loss to him. /yes, it's snarky, but that is the mood I am in.
• smallishbear: Chill, brother. Be cool. We're all people, trying to do our best.
• And smallish bear, I'm as liberal as the next guy (well, I guess unless the next guy is you ;) ), but on the schoolyard "cry me a river" stuff, I have to agree that it's not particularly constructive.
• This is not helping. Oh, and you repeating shit you read on powerline and instapundit over here does. Nice double standard. Replacing James Lee Witt, a FEMA director with actual experience in emergency management, with 2 political hacks who have none helps. Keeping rescuers busy doing photo ops instead of actual rescues, that helps too. Your blind loyalty in the face of incompetence, that's a real help. That'll save some fucking lives right there.
• I can't figure out why everyone is so pissed at him. Because he's in charge. It's easy to attach blame to Bush for the budget cuts, and for a lack of preparedness. He was also the one to take the 'lessons' of 9/11, and redesigned the whole disaster response scheme as a result. He's the one who failed to respond. Seems to me Bush is on the hook both coming and going. And sure, the failures aren't entirely his fault -- but he's the leader, the no. 1 guy. At some point, someone is responsible, and in my mind it makes perfect sense to attach culpability to the guy who's calling the shots. There was a time when the buck stopped in the White House, right?
• I will grant you. I don't have TV, so I'm not watching what everyone else is watching. I'm not able to see the President's reaction. I'm totally basing my indignation on the fact that when it comes down to it, Bush is no more culpable than anyone else in the face of a disaster that would have had crippling effects on the area no matter what. What we're seeing here is a vision of humanity as the survival instinct is coupled with extreme conditions, which makes it very difficult to get in there to help. One president with rolled up sleeves in the muck isn't going to help (except boost his PR, and I'm sure he'd get flack for that too). I'm not saying that blame assessment isn't right or natural. But DAMN, get some perspective!
• smallish bear, you and I are done here.
• Another good, trustworthy charity to donate to is Modest Needs. You can read their ledgers and so forth - very transparent where your money is going - they do a lot of checking-up. In response to Hurricane Katrina, Modest Needs has launched a special initiative designed to ease the financial burden placed on those persons who have opened their homes to friends, family members, and others displaced by Katrina.
• One president with rolled up sleeves in the muck isn't going to help (except boost his PR, and I'm sure he'd get flack for that too). I totally call bullshit on that. You know how it is going to help? It's going to help me, it's going to help others who are watching him. Why? Because it's going to show a leader who is at least willing to make some sort of effort, someone who is willing to get his hands dirty. Even if it's not real, even if it's a PR move, it still shows an understanding of what the public wants to see. Understanding your people goes a long way.
• smallish bear, you and I are done here. AMERICA! FUCK YEAH!
• I totally call bullshit on that. You know how it is going to help? It's going to help me, it's going to help others who are watching him. Why? Because it's going to show a leader who is at least willing to make some sort of effort, someone who is willing to get his hands dirty. Even if it's not real, even if it's a PR move, it still shows an understanding of what the public wants to see. Understanding your people goes a long way. I agree with Darshon. He would catch some flack for a PR move, but I think the good it would do to actually see him on the ground, knowing he was in a place where he could actually see what was going on (not out the window of AF1), would go a long way. But, as posted above, this may not be possible any longer.
• f8x: Here's some perspective on how and why people are so angry.
• I just want to say to f8xmulder, while I usually disagree with you, as always, I appreciate your discourse and civility. You always hold your own and you do come up with good points. So, thanks!;>
• f8x: Here's some more perspective. And, agreed with Darshon.
• More perspective.
• I'm totally basing my indignation on the fact that when it comes down to it, Bush is no more culpable than anyone else in the face of a disaster that would have had crippling effects on the area no matter what. Yes he his. He's responsible for the federal government's reaction to the disaster. Which has been shit. And, really, still is. Even he admits that.
• National Guard on its way to the Convention Center.
• Earlier up Argh linked to a National Geographic article. It's very important. Please read this.

  But the next day the storm gathered steam and drew a bead on the city. As the whirling maelstrom approached the coast, more than a million people evacuated to higher ground. Some 200,000 remained, however—the car-less, the homeless, the aged and infirm, and those die-hard New Orleanians who look for any excuse to throw a party. The storm hit Breton Sound with the fury of a nuclear warhead, pushing a deadly storm surge into Lake Pontchartrain. The water crept to the top of the massive berm that holds back the lake and then spilled over. Nearly 80 percent of New Orleans lies below sea level—more than eight feet below in places—so the water poured in. A liquid brown wall washed over the brick ranch homes of Gentilly, over the clapboard houses of the Ninth Ward, over the white-columned porches of the Garden District, until it raced through the bars and strip joints on Bourbon Street like the pale rider of the Apocalypse. As it reached 25 feet (eight meters) over parts of the city, people climbed onto roofs to escape it. Thousands drowned in the murky brew that was soon contaminated by sewage and industrial waste. Thousands more who survived the flood later perished from dehydration and disease as they waited to be rescued. It took two months to pump the city dry, and by then the Big Easy was buried under a blanket of putrid sediment, a million people were homeless, and 50,000 were dead. It was the worst natural disaster in the history of the United States. When did this calamity happen? It hasn't—yet. But the doomsday scenario is not far-fetched. The Federal Emergency Management Agency lists a hurricane strike on New Orleans as one of the most dire threats to the nation, up there with a large earthquake in California or a terrorist attack on New York City. Even the Red Cross no longer opens hurricane shelters in the city, claiming the risk to its workers is too great. -National Geographic, October 2004

  "Unfortunately, that's going to be attributable a lot to people who did not heed the advance warnings, I don't make judgments about why people chose not to leave but, you know, there was a mandatory evacuation of New Orleans." - Michael Brown, September 1, 2005

  "I don't think anybody anticipated the breach of the levees." - President Bush, September 1, 2005

• Great, I think we've established that Bush is a fuck-up, and that the fed'l govt's response to Katrina has been crap. (I'm serious.) I'd like to suggest we move on to discussing other aspects of the calamity in New Orleans and Mississippi. (Not trying to curtail anyone's voice, just trying to keep things here productive.)
• Well, "military" vehicles (plus buses). Crossing fingers this goes well...

• Early this past weekend as the potential danger became clear the calls for `evacuation' went out. I use the scare quotes since what transpired was not an evacuation, it was a `sauve qui peut' in the most brutal and literal sense of the phrase. TV suits spoke of the would mention that about one fifth of the inhabitants of New Orleans had no means of transportation, and then would repeat the need to run, never asking just how the government planned to save the lives of the poor.

  From the first link in the FPP.
• Interdictor reports CH-53E's flying overhead, more troops on the ground. Two active duty brigades promised, so far have yet to show. Fires all over the city, no morale, supposedly an explosion at a chemical plant near the superdome. He can't confirm, but he sees the smoke. Check the pictures.
• Looks like Bush is on the ground, dealing with people. That's probably what he's best at.
• What Darshon said. I think a true leader would have gone in and been willing to get the hands "dirty." My feeling all along is that this situation has been missing a clear and present leader. Had Bush gone in a few days after the landfall, tossed a few sandbags, cleared a small pile of debris, and *perhaps* even visited the thousands of people in the dome (ya know, give some words of encouragment, someting to keep hopes alive, boost morale - these are things leaders do, no?) - - I for once may have actually given the guy a wink of respect. But again, his true colors are bleeding...
• To say, "Bush cut funding for the levees, he caused this" is a bit hyperbolic. But the bottom line is, he very well could have. Bush and friends roll the dice like that ALL THE TIME, cutting funds in obscure places most people wont notice or care about. It's come back to bite him once so far. So now the question is, when will the next time be? As I mentioned in the other thread, Another place where they've cut funds is the program to find and destroy the nuclear weapons that are floating around in the former Soviet republics, waiting to be taken by any half-competent thief...
• >To say, "Bush cut funding for the levees, he caused this" is a bit hyperbolic. Yeah, but this goes way past cutting funding for levees. During the Cold War, it was vital that we funnel billions of dollars to private entities in the defense industry, so that we would all be Safe. Need public money for schools or social programs? You crazy liberal- you must think money grows on trees. Now, if you needed a few hundred million for a completely nonfunctional Space Missile Shield, the world would be your fucking oyster- but schools? Can't help you there. So we arrive at the end of the 20-year defense spending orgy, and American soldiers go to Iraq, and lo! -they're underequipped, and we're told we must 'go to war with the army we have'. Now we're asked to accept a trillion dollar deficit and a bootprint on the bill of rights in the name of security and emergency preparedness- so that we can all be Safe. And then the hurricane calls, and we find we're rescuing people in New Orleans 'with the disaster relief systems that we have'. When people learn to recognize it when they're being robbed blind, when they elect a government that puts people before profit, then we won't see stuff like this anymore.
• It seems to me everyone could use a little perspective and not jump to conclusions. FEMA director Brown is partially right in his criticism of those who chose to stay. I'm not saying (and neither is he) that everyone who stayed behind did so by choice...but some of them did, and their foolish decision made this tragedy worse. Anyone who thinks all these people chse to stay is wrong, but so are those who assume they all had no choice. The truth is somewhere in between, as always. As for Bush's culpability, well, perspective is needed there, too. There was not much action he personally could have taken that would have made much of a difference. First response is normally planned and executed at local and state levels, and even federal organizations execute by plan...and the plan works better when the politicians and the figureheads stay out of the way. Obviously they failed miserably, and responsibility for that failure will ultimately point to the top. So what can Bush be rightly criticised for? 1. Appointing a FEMA director who is unqualified and only got the job because of his fundraising and campaign help. 2. Cutting funding for levee restoration (but he shares responsibility with previous administrations who did the same thing). 3. Worrying more about the damage to his administration's reputation than the damge to millions of peoples lives. 4. Not reacting in the same strong, serious, and resolved manner as he did shortly after 9/11. There's still time for him to step up and show some leadership, and I hope he does.
• rocket88, as usual, you are a voice of calm. Thank you for your perspective on things. I think I see what people are saying about Bush not exhibiting strong leadership, and he definitely can change that. I hope he does.
• I do dislike much of Bush's policies, but today, I think he's starting to do the right thing by being on the ground and meeting with the people of our country, at least in Mississippi. If he really has a pair of balls, he'll do the same in New Orleans, and that would really be a good thing for his popularity. He really needs to assure the people that are affected that they can have some hope for the future, and that the government will help them get on with their lives. The Nat'l Guard is currently swarming into New Orleans, as are supply conveys, and that's a very, very relieving sight. We probably won't know just how bad this disaster has been for weeks. There are probably many thousands dead by now. Tragically, many died after the initial storm and flooding. That tragedy was directly caused by not being prepared for such an emergency in the first place. Hopefully, we will soon find out why, and accountability will be given.
• accountability will be given. Or, in a perfect world, accountability will be taken.
• I just got back from having lunch with the local Treasurer of Americorps St. Louis (an old friend); STL Americorps is sending 14 trucks and 40 people as we speak. We discussed the situation at length. His comment: the reason the FEMA rescue efforts have been bad has been primarily two-fold: first and foremost, he says that, when these things happen, the federal government pays 75% of the cost and the states where the incidents occur pay 25%. According to my friend, the states of Louisiana, Mississippi and Alabama have all refused to agree to pay their 25% (I'm paraphrasing wildly here, he went on and on and I tried to remember as much of it as I could, but it was pretty complicated); he said that because those agreements haven't been ironed out, the federal units on the ground don't have authorization to go in, due to some sort of thing (again, paraphrasing), the way he put it was that this is typically part of the governor's emergency declaration, which is the state's way of saying to the federal government that it's ok to come in, which they apparently don't have because of this 75/25 deal. He went on to say that the Bush called the governor of Texas personally and they agreed to shoulder costs so that the evac teams could get authorization to take people out of Louisiana to Texas, which is why they're going there (instead of somewhere closer? dunno). Also, he said that lots of FEMA and Americorp (as an aside: there are only two Americorp emergency response teams, one in St. Louis and one in Boston, and they are both heading to New Orleans on their own accord, without FEMA authorization - St. Louis had to pull guys out of some forest fire [?] in Wyoming and recall retired ERT personnel [who jumped at the chance to go, reportedly] to get as big a team as they could) are going in without authorization, but the way they is was portrayed is that they are individual units making the decision to go in on their own, and they are neither coordinated nor well supported - basically, they are just saying fuck this and going into New Orleans and Gulfport, etc, with what they have handy, both in people and material. The second thing he mentioned (as if the above, if true, isn't bad enough) is that, while the Red Cross is the big first responder to disaster *usually*? In this part of the south, my friend says the big first responder is instead the Salvation Army - which he says was caught absolutely, totally fucking flat-footed - just simply and utterly unprepared. THe Red Cross is moving in, but they assumed the Salvation Army would take the ball immediately and they would have more time to prepare - which they ended up not. He also mentioned that the Red Cross (he didn't know if the Salvation Army had this or not) has a rule/bylaw/whatever that says if their people come under fire, they are required to pull them back. He said that since people had on a couple occasions fired on Red Cross personnel, the Red Cross had to pull them out, at least temporarily. They're going back in as soon as they can, but the back and forth compunded the logistical problems. That's all I know. I don't know that all of it is true, but he's the closest thing to an expert I've talked to about this.
• if you cant handle Arabian horses, how are you going to do with a disaster of this size? (via MeFi) I know I'm repeating myself, but these little things like cutting funding to obscure programs and appointing incompetent cronies, they're all rolls of the dice. These are things Bush has done repeatedly, since day one, as a matter of policy. Now we see the results.
• I find it horrifying, if true, that the feds would withhold aid because the states didn't agree to foot 25% of the bill. That's the sort of thing you worry about after you save the thousands of dying people. I don't even want to think this might be true.
• And I can't imagine being a state that wouldn't sign to get that fed assistance while my people died! If it turns out all these jagoffs let New Orleans and the gulf coast rot in a cesspool because of a percentage...? No punishment is sufficient. I have to say, I have no independent confirmation, links, whatnot on ANY of this - it's just what my friend said. Could be real, could be crap. He's not typically in the crap business, though.
• Thanks for the info, Fes! For those of us wondering how to help, BoingBoing has posted quite a few possibilities (if you get to this link later, look at today's and yesterday's posts... and probably tomorrow's as well. There were too many posts to put up here individually.) I like the BoingBoing posts because there are so many, and because they offer possibilities for people with tech skills (which I don't have, but I know quite a few monkeys do).
• Not doubting you at all, Fes. I hope I didn't come across that way. I just can't take it in, that's all. From either side. That the states wouldn't agree to pay for help (heck, they should agree to anything at this point to get help) or that the feds wouldn't just go in and help anyway. I still think the federal government should have seen days ago that the state and local authorities were totally out of their league and taken over. Either way, thanks for the info.
• I, for the most part, agree with rocket88. Those who had the capability to leave and chose not to are both reaping the harvest of that choice and making it worse for all those who could not leave. They share in the blame. Everyone knew that this could be bad. Everyone knew that it could have been even worse. When six digit numbers to account for the dead are being thrown around, you have to talk about accountability when action is inadequate and/or delayed. First up, in our expanding circle of responsibility is Mayor Nagin. He did an awful lot of noise-making, but, under his command were the resources of the city, and he did not utilize them to their utmost. Why was not EVERY SINGLE policeman, fireman, and EMT not depployed under emergency order to protect the city? This could have made the first 24 hours turn from a tragedy in the making back into perhaps mere devastation and catastrophe. Next comes the Governor of Louisiana, who has the authority to deploy the National Guard. Why were there not 10,000 National Guard troops lined up in convoys and waiting for choppers into town by Monday night? And why is it that there can be snipers firing at Superdome evacuees without immediate and lethal response from gathered troops? The answer is: not enough troops. A woeful underestimation of the capability of people under no supervision to to evil to one another. Last in the expanding circle is President Bush and the FEMA director. Again, where are the men with guns? A coordinated entry of military and distaster relief workers into the city within 24 hours could have done numerous things: first, the military would be there to protect the relief workers, the supplies that would inevitably be somewhat delayed trickling in, and even ALL OF THE STOCK OF THE STORES THAT WERE OTHERWISE LOOTED. Can you seriously tell me that a coordinated military entry into the city could not have "procured" the entire stock of every grocery store in the town for the purpose of being a stopgap in feeding the survivors? There is plenty of blame to go around, and it goes from the top (Bush, delayed response), to the middle (Nagin and the LA governor, under-responding), to the bottom (the capable who CHOSE not to evacuate, exacerbating the problems).
• So what can Bush be rightly criticised for? Bush said that the war in Iraq, which is being fought largely by National Guard troops, has not affected the ability of the National Guard to respond to this emergency. General Honore said the same thing -- but that it's taking time for adequate numbers of National Guard troops to get to the region in crisis. I wonder: Would having tons more National Guard troops at home in Louisiana, Texas, and Mississippi have made the National Guard's response quicker, saving American lives in the process? What really is the connection between prioritizing fighting in the Middle East using troops that would normally be reserved for emergencies back home and this week's slow National Guard response in New Orleans?
• Does it help to understand why so many people didn't leave if you know that New Orleans has a 27% poverty rate? And it was the end of the month, when resources are lowest? These people do not have any sort of reserves. I've heard enough interviews today where families broke into separate groups becaue not all could fit in the one car they owned. That fucking breaks my heart. Taking the lack of resources of 27% of the population into account is just another part of proper preparation for a natural disaster. This is purely speculation on my part, but given the poverty rates in the south, maybe these states simply didn't have the money to pony up 25%. I'm reminded of the Chicago heatwave in the early 90s where so many died and it was disproportionately eldery people living alone, lacking social support network, lacking the ability to walk down the steps to the neighborhood cooling center. So please, think about those things when you want to claim thousands of people had a free will choice to leave or ride out the hurricane at home.
• The Big Disconnect on New Orleans on CNN right now (might be altered after a while) - a comparison of who's saying what about the situation.
• I have no doubt that many people wanted to leave, but couldn't. But in *every* hurricane situation, there are always significant numbers of people who defy the orders and try to ride it out. It may be out of denial of the true force of the storm, or some misguided macho thing, but it always happens. The day after the storm there was footage of cars getting stuck trying to drive through the puddles, and of traffic tie-ups at the damaged bridge. Obviously many people with cars, and thus the ability to evacuate, were still around after the storm.
• Thanks, Melinika. Boy, that FEMA dude has got his head stuffed so far up his ass that he can suck on his gall bladder. Or, rather, he sure sounds like other administration officials like Don "things are getting better in Iraq! I promise!" Rumsfeld and Dick "Dick" Cheney (who apparently still believes there are WMDs in Iraq, and that we were greeted as liberators by that country's citizens).
• HW...I thought about that, too. It's impossible to say whether the war, and the resulting lack of available National Guard troops, contributed to the slow response. It's entirely possible that it did.
• From Melinika's link: Evacuee Raymond Cooper: Sir, you've got about 3,000 people here in this -- in the Convention Center right now. They're hungry. Don't have any food. We were told two-and-a-half days ago to make our way to the Superdome or the Convention Center by our mayor. And which when we got here, was no one to tell us what to do, no one to direct us, no authority figure. Looks like the mayor fucked up big time.
• Not necessarily, rocket88 - I mean, that Homeland Security guy (link from other thread) didn't even KNOW there were people at the convention center when we all had known it for a couple days by then - it'd been reported in the news. I'm more inclined to think the mayor told them to go to the convention center to get the people off the streets and in one place for help to more easily reach them - a good idea - then help never came when everyone else dropped the ball. Here's another CNN link talking about how they did a drill for a "worst-case scenario" last summer. If they drilled it.... why didn't they have a plan for it?
• I probably shouldn't say "dropped the ball" since we don't know for sure yet everything that happened, but it's obvious there were serious miscommunication issues. First, how would the Homeland Security guy not know people were at the convention center... and also the mayor told people wanting to go to leave the city by the Crescent City Connection bridge, but when they tried, they were turned back by police....
• Here is a report from inside the convention center yesterday.
• I was about to post that CNN link too, Melinka. I wonder if Mike Brown owns a fiddle?
• NYT's Krugman takes the Bush administration to task in a pretty compelling manner.
• Does Bush always refer to parts of the US as "this part of the world" rather than "this part of the country" as he did in the live speech he just gave on CNN?
• We must, unfortunately, continue to deal with the fact that Bush is one of the all-time worst speakers. He is sooooo disconnected. Rice gave a halfway decent speach, obviously emotional. It's kind of funny (in a really sad way) watching her struggle to maintain that ever-present spin on what the administration is doing. Obviously struggling to find the right words without sounding insincere. Too bad it doesn't work.
• Oh man, that evacuation bus that turned over ended up with at least one fatality. Isn't that irony of ironies.
• "this part of the world" It seems like he subconsciously thinks he's talking about someplace that's *not* part of his America. I know it's minor, but it struck me oddly when he said it three times in a short speech. I wonder if he even knows he does it.
• "The good news is -- and it's hard for some to see it now -- that out of this chaos is going to come a fantastic Gulf Coast, like it was before. Out of the rubbles of Trent Lott's house -- he's lost his entire house -- there's going to be a fantastic house. And I'm looking forward to sitting on the porch. (Laughter.)" - George W Bush http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/050902/dcf054.html?.v=7
• "this part of the world" You know, like the North Pole or something.
• Or taken another way, he means to include NO as part of the world, not just this country. You know, global village and all that...I'm just sayin', there's different ways of looking at it.
• It's ridiculous to believe that any significant part of the population is there by choice. The overwhelming majority are there without a choice, and you need to be pretty dishonest with yourself to believe that the part of the population there by choice is sizeable enough to count as a significant part of the population. It shows a total lack of undrestanding of the kind of poverty level New Orleans had. Every report I've heard has said this was the FIRST EVER manditory evacuation of a US city. You can't talk about previous examples of behavior because this is the first case of this kind of scenario. You have absolutely nothing to compare it too.
• Ugh, but what a horrible speech that was...thanks for the link, es el Queso
• If New Orleans can make it through tonight without heavy gunfire between National Guards and locals, it may be saved. Another long long long eerie night. I'd give it 50/50 odds of going off at this point. Please send them all your good thoughts, prayers, whatever works for you, tonight. Please.
• I hope you all realize that this can happen where you live. We all could end up just like the people of New Orleans. It may be a hurricane, major earthquake, terrorist attack or some unexpected disaster which puts you in their shoes. Realize this. America has changed. There is no cowboy on a horse who will ride into town to save the populace. You'll be on your own. Fighting the gangs. Thirsty and hungry. With a gun in your hand. While your family huddles in a corner, terrified. You look to the sky for someone to come save you. No one will come. But at the same time in Washington A man will be holding a press conference. Congratulating everyone on a job well done.
• Argh, I've been walking around the past couple of days looking at people and thinking the same thing. Like, if things went to shit, the guy who just woke me up at the last stop on the subway and I might be fighting over a loaf of bread. Scares the living shit out of me.
• --From a recent Reuters article, quotes from various folk in New Orleans: I want to get out of here. They left us here to die. We are throw-away people.
• mandyman is teh rad
• On (I guess) a lighter note, I've been thinking about this catastrophe scenario idea. I am on the Disaster Recovery/Continuity committee at work, and we have had zero run-throughs. All I've got is a baseball cap that says "Floor Warden," and my job in a crisis is to evacuate two courtrooms to a parking lot. I'm sure, of course, that if we ever had an actual emergency, pandemonium would prevail. Anyway, the people who should have been in charge of the evacuations and subsequent disaster relief are flight attendants. In my experience, they are the most highly-trained, calm, coordinated, resourseful people around. I have been through several hairy airline episodes, and the flight attendants always had everything and everyone under control.
• Plus they have that little directional wave thing going on.
• if we ever had an actual emergency, pandemonium would prevail. Got a map of escape routes? Helmet? Megaphone? A way to call for help if things get out of hand? Even on a small scale, there are basics to emergency management: safety, leadership, communication and a plan. Where the hell all that went in New Orleans is what I'd like to know.
• Following up on EarWax's comment above: The City That Raised Itself From the Dead. via Hit and Run
• It's starting to sound like there were quite a few deserters on the NOPD. A couple of policeman were enraged and, I think, surprised that they had actually done that. Time will tell just how many left.
• -un, that's my unfortunate point. We don't know what the hell to do, but we are considered first responders.
• I'm going to take a neighbourhood Emergency Preparedness workshop so I can at least know how to turn off the gas in our building when the Big One comes. We are overdue, as all you Pacific Northwest monkeys know. Nickdanger turned me on to these live feeds from police scanners last night, and I realised that ham radio skills and battery-powered radio equipment would be extremely useful if you needed to know WTF was going on and where, and had no phone, cell, internet or electricity. Plus I'm going to start stockpiling food and water and supplies again - I ate all my food last time I had a poor spell - because given the crazy-ass weather, tectonic hijinks and the Pandemic, I really don't think you can go wrong. In darker moments I wonder about getting a gun as well. This shit isn't a joke anymore.
• >In darker moments I wonder about getting a gun as well. Yeah, I've beat that impulse back a few times. I mostly get it as a result of spending too much time reading about the end of the world on the internet. Not that the end isn't nigh, but you're not actually less safe because you're reading about it- you're just more anxious. I'm seriously considering a coal cellar stacked to the ceiling with canned food, though.
• "When I was younger I used to come to New Orleans to have a good time. A bit too much of a good time, sometimes. Heh-heh." Tone-deaf.
• As I said in the other thread, no need to worry about Y2K anymore; so put those stockpiles to use! And the duct-tape and plastic sheeting that will protect you from danger? Why, use it for decor, of course!
• Tulane University private hospital non-essential staff are evacuated by helicopter while across the way, Charity public hospital which serves the poor and indigent watch the helicopters taking off and leaving them as they hand bag patients who need ventilators. If the nurses and doctors stop, the patient will die. I'm guessing they weren't waving goodbye as the helicopters lifted off and left them behind.
• Wow, moneyjane. You are scaring me with the gun shit. I'm thinking apocolyptic times, and that's messed up. I have a family, so I'm still into the continuity thing. Guns mean the end; not ready for that.
• I think everyone here knows damn well that it's about the poor black versus the well-off white. Even without a link for verification, I'm willing to bet that's the case, moneyjane.
• Guns mean the end; not ready for that. None of us are. It's a tough call - do you want to survive? You'll possibly need one. But then again, who wants to live like that? My plan is hole up and hold down the well-stocked fort.
• You're really scaring me. Most of the assholes I know are quicker on the draw than I am.
• Or, maybe, as by daughter's father says, I am "intentionally inferior."
• moneyjane, this is for you: From AnimalPlanet.com: Meanwhile, a trio of dolphins moved from the aquarium to a hotel swimming pool is said to be doing fine. And a little bittersweet: At the Holiday Inn in Gulfport, children and adults, some with washcloths and soap, crowded into a swimming pool that housed dolphins from a local marina during the storm. It's always darkest before the dawn.
• ... and Argh made afraid to go to bed tonight. Or maybe get up tomorrow. Depends. Thanks, Argh.
• Shit. So all those gun-hoarding survivalists were right, all this time? At my day job, 'civilian protection' committees rotate between employees. One goes to a short course to learn basics of fire extinguisher use, CPR, first aid. We have evacuation drills every months, even if they're always scheduled publicy so everybody knows in advance. The city is prone to earthqaukes, so we all pretty much knwo what to do, what to expect; we've been there before. Still, when going down the 10 flights of stairs from my office to the street, I fear to imagine what a real emergency will cause people to do. Bottled water and canned foods are a staple at home, but yes, more than having to endure a week or more without running water or electricity, it's a mob's attack what makes one stomach feel suddenly sink. Ah. The fabric of society seems so thin, so brittle.
• Do areas at high risk of natural disasters in other countries have Civil Defense? It's a volunteer organisation (funded by the regional councils) that trains civilians to handle emergencies, gives them the right to commandeer vehicles and delegate tasks to retain or maintain order and keep people safe from harm. I did it for a few months here before moving to the US and learned first aid, basic search-and-rescue skills and how to run a small civil defense base (they're usually established in schools with larger more centralised bases in high schools and the like and one main centre in the city). We had full-on mock-ups every year and lots of hypothesised scenarios to work through as part of our training, so even though we're a relatively low-risk area we are always prepared. Also, the very last page of the Yellow Pages everywhere in NZ is dedicated to emergency procedures: how to batten down your house in a hurricane, how much water to save, ways to conserve resources, where to go for rescue, that sort of thing. These are things we take for granted now, but I think they're beyond useful. Why couldn't the federal government, or even the state senates in high-risk states provide funding for things like these -- they're relatively low-cost on top of levee construction and maintenance and would save so many lives.
• While I don't think it's quite time to stock up the bomb shelters, load the rifles and bunker down for armageddon, you can certainly tell that people are beginning to get very angry about the whole mess—not just on the level of New Orleans or the states hit by Katrina, but the entire country. People are throwing around terms like riots and upheavals, phrases like "drastic social change" and "America is broken." If the current state of affairs holds for much longer, I'm afraid we'll see yet another turning point in this insane drama—something akin to insurrection. Maybe it's all just hysteria right now. Maybe.
• You know what really outrages me? New Orleans flooded on Tuesday, right? Why in the hell did it take until Friday for Geraldo Rivera to arrive on the scene?
• For the record, Bill O'Reilly doesn't think the current situation has anything at all to do with race.
• Just saw Geraldo on Fox, all worked up that things are just like he saw them on TV 3 days ago, and prompting the camera to zoom on some baby on his mother's arms. 'Look at this poor baby...' For a moment there, I fully expected some angry guy to enter the scene and punch him to the ground.
• New Orleans resident Alan Gould (direct link to video) at the convention centre, talking about what it was like before the water and food arrived. There were some armed men there - and the people made them leave.
• Their reasoning for keeping them locked up in Superdome is because otherwise the blacks will run rampant with the looting. It's a prison, to keep keep the streets safe from looters. The only way they'll make it out of there is if Geraldo shows a white baby, instead of some black ones.
• Do areas at high risk of natural disasters in other countries have Civil Defense? This is a very good question. As far as I can tell, emergency preparedness in the US is virtually nil. Maybe it was better back when were in the "cold war", but these days I think many people are complacent and don't take these issues seriously. A page in the phone book describing emergency evacuation procedures would probably have helped New Orleans significantly. As for the comment about Geraldo Rivera, the scene he made at the Convention Center was ludicrous. He's a complete buffoon.
• As much as Geraldo is a drama queen, that clip of him holding up babies in the superdome really got to me. It was a contrast in perspective between two different reporters on the ground and the guy in the studio trying to tell them things weren't as bad as they were saying. I think I'd be going nuts too if I were surrounded by so many needy people just waiting for help (and locked in a building!) and there wasn't a damn thing I could do.
• My mom called her local school district to see what was needed (she lives in TX, where a lot of kids from NOLA are being absorbed into local school districts). The school said they need school supplies for these kids, so donations of anything would be appreciated. What they need the most, though, are pencil bags and backpacks. The school district lady said the backpacks don't have to be new, but the kids feel better when they have something to put all of their stuff in.If you're in an area where people are coming (and it's all over, Michigan is taking in a few thousand), think about sending over some supplies for the kids. This is a relatively cheap way to help.
• Ah. The fabric of society seems so thin, so brittle. The fact that we are able to type and read these words proves in fact that society is *not* brittle. Here's another way to make it more brittle though. Go out and buy lots of guns. Yeah, that'll do it.
• Hawthorne Wingo--STOP WATCHING BILL O'REILLY! In fact, do not watch Fox News for any reason. They are the worst of the worst. I'm hoping you were being sarcastic and I just didn't get it.;>
• The fact that we are able to type and read these words proves in fact that society is *not* brittle. Sure...wherever those words were typed and wherever you're reading them. I'd suggest that the people of New Orleans might disagree with you.
• And I understand your view on guns not being a good thing; that's obvious - however, do you really think that a disaster where you or I live will feature people crawling from the wreckage, dusting off and shaking hands while saying, "Ok everybody...now play nice"? And then everybody will be flown to safety by the bluebirds of happiness flying out their asses.
• do you really think that a disaster where you or I live will feature people crawling from the wreckage, dusting off and shaking hands while saying, "Ok everybody...now play nice"? Immediately after I crawl out of the wreckage, I, for one, plan on shooting moneyjane. That's fair warning, mj.
• And them I'm gonna fuck some million dollar homes.
• Ha! I'll be wearing bulletproof pasties and Kevlar ginch...try me Nicky boy!
• That, and my under-utilized ass-birds will kick you in the balls with their pointy little feet!
• >my under-utilized ass-birds will kick you in the balls with their pointy little feet Ever consider one line of a conversation, out of context, and wonder what the odds were that that particular sentence would ever be constructed? Some, like 'pass the salt', are a pretty good bet; others are a longer shot.
• Oh, I don't know; around here we say that all the time... On a more serious note; does anyone know if and where there are neighbourhoods considered predomonantly white in New Orleans? There are fires considered to be arson going on now, and I'm trying to figure out if it's random or targeted by demographics.
• Actually answered my own question, sort of - this site for the Greater New Orleans Community Data Center has tons of information about New Orleans, its parishes, and neighbourhoods, including histories and neighbourhood and elevation maps.
• According to nola.com, three Carnival cruise ships will house some refugees. I also read somewhere (nola I think) that Fanny Mae is giving hurricane victims a couple months deferrment on mortgages. Seemed an oddly empty gesture toward people who are suddenly homeless.
• *amazed that Nick is still loose* Officer! Get that guy! Fucking lawlessness here!
• And I understand your view on guns not being a good thing; that's obvious - however, do you really think that a disaster where you or I live will feature people crawling from the wreckage, dusting off and shaking hands while saying, "Ok everybody...now play nice"? 1998 Ice Storm. Large numbers of us froze in sub zero temperatures for several weeks without power, heat or water. State of Emergency declared here in Ottawa, and all the way to Montreal. No one did the lootin' thing. Folks lined up to get moved into shelters. No gunplay as far as I can remember. Wait, I shot my landlord and buried him in...no i didn't. He just left on a long trip and hasn't been back that's all so stop asking about that. And then everybody will be flown to safety by the bluebirds of happiness flying out their asses. I'd like another disaster to happen just to see them once again. Yes, I pine for the bluebirds of happiness. May they fly in formation.
• Oops, bluebirds = blue assbirds
• Dude...nobody riots in the cold. The Big One will be scheduled for summer. Also; you haven't seen a damn thing unless you've seen the glorious blue ass-birds of happiness flying in formation as requested by StoryBored. Please note: If you should use your firearm to take a potshot at these wonderful birds they'll pick your eyes right out of your damn head while singing "It's a Small World After All".
• Just out of curiousity; how many monkeys have been in a riot with troops of cops/tear gas/looting going on around them? What was it like? Were you scared? Angry? Holding a brick? What practical tips can you give anybody in that situation? I spent three hours in the Stanley Cup riot in 1994, and they were some of the most fascinating hours of my life. I got gassed three separate times, and boy, did that suck. White suburbia was looting like a motherfucker on Robson and Granville streets. I watched people throwing chunks of concrete through the plate glass at Eatons. I saw this man and woman screaming and crying, trying to save a store front on Robson, and it wasn't even their store. Robson street is only a block away from me, and it's riot/public belligerence central, the go-to street for mass public freak-outs. If the shit hits the fan in this city, I'll be right in the middle of it. Tips: If things are getting really dangerous, or you are tired from running, find the little oasis around reporters doing live feeds and stay there. Climb up somewhere above the crowd, hopefully concealed. People and cops running with chaos ahead and behind rarely ever look up. Don't stay in alcoves or store doorways because you can get trapped there by the crowd or hurt by things being thrown at windows or flying glass.
• Thanks for the tips Moneyjane. I'll keep that in mind when I go to the UNFPJ March on Washington on Sept 24.
• Didn't really know where to post this; it's the chorus from the song "The City of New Orleans" Good morning America how are you? Don't you know me I'm your native son, I'm the train they call The City of New Orleans, I'll be gone five hundred miles when the day is done.
• Robson ain't no picnic, that's for sure. But I stubbornly stick with my blue ass-birds. According to the people who study these types of things, looting is a rare exception after natural disasters. So there. *flips safety off shotgun* *whistles*
• Damn blue ass-birds. How they anger me! PS - Looting at StoryBoard's house! Bring crowbars and large burlap sacks.
• I hear footsteps. *gets nervous*
• Three babies died at the convention center from heat exhaustion, said Mark Kyle, a medical relief provider. You guys slay me.
• I know, I know, if only it were true.
• Please. Chill with the cute until.....then.
• ... or maybe I'm being a hardass. Sorry if I am.
• ... or maybe I'm being a hardass. Sorry if I am. Don't sweat it. Everybody's processing things as best they can, and a little laugh isn't such a bad thing even when things are at their worst, and people here care, and you obviously know that. So don't sweat it.
• No need for sweat, Cynn... Now for some good news (from the Washington Post): "a dozen National Guard troops broke into applause late Saturday as Isaac Kelly, 81, the last person to be evacuated from the Superdome, boarded a school bus." Another 1500 are still left at the Convention Center. But given that just yesterday there were tens of thousands of people at these locations, it looks like things are getting in gear *finally*...
• Thanks, HawthorneWingo. I guess I don't know how to react. I'll just shut up and mutter to myself.
• Yay! Some good news! If I were there, I could confirm for myself. Story, I issued you a challenge in another thread. I expect a complete rebuttal by tomorrow.
• Oh, sorry to sound like a constipated schoolmarm (even tho that's how I feel). You can ignore me at your leisure.
• dammit, I believe that would be leasure. thanx
• Sorry to interrupt the funnin', but I wanted to share. Mrs. Tool and I spent some time gathering resources and doing some refugee preparation at our church today. Mrs. Tool is on the church mission board, which, because we're lucky enough to have (a) big enough facilities, and (b) rich enough parishioners, decided to set up its own refugee shelter inside the building. Three hots and a cot for up to fifty people in the great hall. You should have seen the outpouring. The place is fucking packed with everything from diapers to shoes to inflatable mattresses to toys for the kids. Mrs. Tool and I went across the river to the senior center, where we'd heard some refugees were getting meals, to pass the word that we had long-term food and shelter for those trying to figure out what they wanted to do next. We met a college professor from New Orleans who's here with eight relatives and friends. He plays a mean fucking jazz piano, brought down the house with his rendition of the Charlie Brown theme song while everyone ate lasagne. You should have seen the look on his face when the applause started. His name is Luther, and I'm a better man for the few hours I spent with him. We met a woman named Dorsa, whose husband is/was a licensed boat captain. They're here with four kids, pretty much planning on putting roots in Little Rock, as they have nowhere else to go. She told me that her oldest son's high school was used as an evacuation center. There were people inside when the levee broke and the city flooded. The school is completely under water. Her son's school. She said they think there are fifteen hundred people inside. We all got choked up and hugged her. Her whole family is just beautiful. What struck me through all of this was that the scene that greeted me was not the scene I expected. I expected tears and frustration. I expected depression. I expected silence and, at best, grim determination. You should have seen the joy in that room. You should have seen the smiles. Heard the laughter. You should have seen the children, chasing each other, the adults shaking hands and hugging. You should have heard that fucking jazz piano. I'll never forget this night as long as I live. And the best part? I get to do it again tomorrow. Big love to all from here down South. There's hope down here.
• Thanks. I don't feel so shitty and helpless tonight. Bless byou, and I hope you get the typo.
• Bless you and your fellow parishioners, MCT. *dries eyes*
• Bless Mrs. Tool. I'm ashamed to say that if it weren't for her influence, I wouldn't be half as involved as I am. She is a force of nature, that woman. When troubles come, whether as single spies or in battalions, she rolls up her sleeves and gets to work.
• Wow. That is great.
• Ms. Tool, your are God in motion. All I can say is thanks, you rock.
• God bless you both, and everyone who is helping.
• That brings me to tears, mct. God bless your wife, you, and everyone else out there doing the things that remind us of our humanity. This sounds trite, I don't mean for it to--but I don't have the right words to thank you two for doing right by those people.
• Count me in on the cry train. That is wonderful. Just wonderful. I'm currently putting together an action plan for a Katrina benefit series in Portland. I've spent the last 2 days on the phone, lining up local talent, figuring out venues, and putting together an amazing team to bring the Portland music scene together in fundraising for the southeast US. What we can raise depends on what headliners we can get, but I think we can do something big - there's alot of huge acts based in Portland. As soon as I get more worked out (most importantly, financial backing) I'll update in this thread.
• I am glad that there are people like you in the world, MCT. Bless you and your wife, and the people in your parish. You are good people.
• mct, is there any way monkeys can maybe contribute directly to your church's refugees? I'd be happier donating if I knew the money would go directly to those who need it.
• Good show, tools. I salute you both for a great service to your neighbours. This is the second great commandment in action. God bless!
• Here's their homepage. Address is: Pulaski Heights UMC 4823 Woodlawn Avenue Little Rock, AR 72205 They also have a page on how to make donations to UMCOR for hurricane relief here.
• That is just so, so cool, MCTool. Mrs Tool we salute you!
• Story, I issued you a challenge in another thread. I expect a complete rebuttal by tomorrow. Sidenote to Cynn, i handed in my essay on the other thread. Plus i left an apple for you on your desk. ;-)
• I want to add to the above: If you are wanting to donate directly to the refugees we're housing, please note it on the check's memo line by writing "PHUMC Local Hurricane Relief" or some such. If you just put "Hurricane relief" on there, there's a chance your donation could go to UMCOR, so be sure that you put the church's initials and the word "local" on there as well. And make the check out to PHUMC. If the money doesn't go directly into the family's pocket, it will go to their care and feeding, you can rest assured. They've stressed that money earmarked for the families will go nowhere else. We may have a family of twenty showing up today, three generations of Louisianians. We're all set up and ready to go. Everyone's damn near jumping up and down, we're so excited.
• Awesome story, mct. You and your wife are great people.
• Ah, MCT, that's really what it's all about. Joy to you and your wife, your church and the refugees. And on a lighter note from NOLA: It's the spirit of the French Quarter
• And, on a darker note: 6:06 P.M. - Police shot and killed at least five people Sunday after gunmen opened fire on a group of contractors traveling across a bridge on their way to make repairs, authorities said. Deputy Police Chief W.J. Riley said police shot at eight people carrying guns, killing five or six. Fourteen contractors were traveling across the Danziger Bridge under police escort when they came under fire, said John Hall, a spokesman for the Army Corps of Engineers. They were on their way to launch barges into Lake Pontchartrain to help plug the breech in the 17th Street Canal, Hall said. WWL-TV
• Good on ya, Mr. and Mrs. Tool! *hugs*
• Why the outrage, Nickdanger? It's only going to get worse. The real tragedy here, in my opinion (worth nothing) is that this disaster occured during a warm period when bacteria could flourish, and water could run. Beyond that, human nature takes its course.
• Yeah, you're right, it doesn't really bear worrying about. Let's just watch American Idol or something.
• I just want to retract my statement to Hawthorne Wingo about not watching FOX news. In most situations they are the worst of the worst. However, I just saw the linked video (from another thread) showing Shepard Smith and Geraldo Rivera showing real human emotion. Absolutely no showmanship involved at all, in fact, it was quite extraordinary to find them speechless at moments. Besides denying their coworkers to put a spin on the story. It was surprising to watch only in light of who I was watching. Particularly with Shepard Smith, it was like he was seeing the light for the first time.
• Yeah, it was compelling. I was watching Geraldo earlier in the day, and thought he was just being a johnny-come-lately (to the scene at the convention center) drama queen, but when I saw the footage from him speaking over Hannity he was so very compelling. fyi I've been watching all the channels, just going from channel to channel.
• Yeah. That really was amazing. I say this as someone who danced with drunken glee at Geraldo's Al Capone's Vault fiasco. I've never seen Shepard Smith before, so I don't have a context, but I will say he looked like a man found wandering in a field fifty feet from a car wrapped around a tree. By the way, did anyone see Celine Dion!?! completely drop the shit on the Larry King Show? I'm not being dick either; I never thought I'd ever say I admired Celine Dion, but I did when she burst into a rage over those people being left to dehydrate and die. She was crying and yelling and basically asking what we've all asked; how the fuck did this happen?
• Clip of Celine is on crooksandliars.com. Gonna go watch it now.
• Here's a link to an article with the video, and a transcript.
• "We couldn't spend any time with you without asking you to sing a song, Celine." TV-world is so so out of touch, no?
• "We couldn't spend any time with you without asking you to sing a song, Celine." It so strange to see the raw juxtaposed with tv-world crap. I think my head would explode without the internet providing a relatively less absurd way to process all this info. Think how much it would fuck you up to actually do that in the flesh; having to see and smell the reality then try and slap on your droid face for the camera. One of the few positive things about this horrendous nightmare is that a whole lot of people have seen TV-world suddenly skew as reporters just fucking stop. They just stop and become us, and it's the fourth wall being broken. It makes you wonder how it is that that's the 'wrong' way for them to be, and then think that maybe they wouldn't be reporting a situation like this at all if it wasn't.
• Exactly.
• You know? I wonder if the best thing she could do now was to actually go and give a concert in the different shelters - entertain people, make them feel better. She really does have a beautiful voice.
• Wow. I haven't contributed anywhere near $1 million, but I share Celine's frustration about how cash donations can't ameliorate the suffering that's going on right now. I would not be surprised at all if she, Oprah, and others do end up up visiting shelters. I came across an article mentioning Macy Gray as one of "the fray of celebrities trying to help the stricken," and that she has visited the Astrodome.
• That same article's description of Sean Penn's efforts touches upon some potential downsides of celebrity attention to the disaster.
• Just make sure you don't bring along a personal photographer.
• I wonder if the best thing she could do now was to actually go and give a concert Haven't these poor people suffered enough?
• I don't use the word very often, as least not as an insult, but Barbara Bush is a cunt.
• “The world saw this tidal wave of disaster descend upon the Gulf Coast,” Bush said Sunday . . . “Now they’re going to see a tidal wave of compassion.” Wha? Him not good wordwise. Say unsmart things when not written down. Oh and good work MTC - thanks for showing the way!
• MCT. Not MTC. So typey bad. Click wrongly.
• I want to do more I wish.. I wish we had some sort of van.....say, call it The Monkeymobile...that I could drive down there and give out our donations to people in small towns who are getting missed by the relief agencies. I'm seeing reports of small towns which were wiped out by Katrina...They're watching trucks drive by them ..all the help in heading towards New Orleans. Not stopping to help them. I wish I was rich.
• Rich enough to help more, that is
• So there's a report that a german news crew witnessed a staged press conference with Bush. It goes like this: Dutch viewer Frank Tiggelaar writes: There was a striking dicrepancy between the CNN International report on the Bush visit to the New Orleans disaster zone, yesterday, and reports of the same event by German TV. ZDF News reported that the president's visit was a completely staged event. Their crew witnessed how the open air food distribution point Bush visited in front of the cameras was torn down immediately after the president and the herd of 'news people' had left and that others which were allegedly being set up were abandoned at the same time. The people in the area were once again left to fend for themselves, said ZDF. Since all I can find are blogs that repeat it - can anyone verify this?
• Chimpy to call investigation, sometime. Asks that we not 'play the blame game'. And as we all know, when someone asks not to play the blame game, we know they're guilty as sin.
• "This is supposed to be... an 'appy occasion! Let's not bicker and argue about 'oo killed 'oo!" I swear, you can quote Monty Python for ANYTHING.
• and should!
• This weeks Harper's Review.
• Harper's review
• petebest: According to this, that report comes from a rather impressive amount of leaping to conclusions.
• Thanks flongj - it smelled kinda funny too. Looking at the transcripts, it seems easy enough to figure out what happened. Laura's commenter, who appears to have been reconstructing from memory a news story he'd seen on TV, elided the New Orleans segment (which had Bush speaking at "one of the few" supply distribution points) and the Biloxi segment (which had cleaning crews working only along Bush's route, and disappearing afterward). Combined, these two segments became a story about supply distribution points disappearing after Bush's visit. Flying over this critical spot again this morning, less than 24 hours later, it became apparent that yesterday we witnessed a hastily prepared stage set for a Presidential photo opportunity; and the desperately needed resources we saw were this morning reduced to a single, lonely piece of equipment.
• FEMA Memo requesting homeland security employees to show up for a day or two of training, bring some cash with them (there may not be working ATM's ya know) and in general, help out where they can. via The Smoking Gun
• Ach, the tinfoil is strong in this one. So "Convey a positive image of disaster operations" is the phrase that they're kvetching about? Here, I'll translate for TSG: Shit be bad enough already without you all whining and crying and shit. Keeping your chin up is part of your job. So spread some fucking hope already.
• Agreed. The "positive image" meme is done. But it doesn't say "Holy Shit" anywhere on it either. Surely some sensitive, dynamic, brilliant, (well-hung), genius of a monkey has started a separate thread about FEMA itself already? Oh. No, wait I did
• Run by alcoholics for alcoholics... Johnny White's has always been an institution on the corner of Bourbon Street and Orleans Street in the French Quarter and, despite it all, they somehow manage to keep cold beer on ice.
• Run by alcoholics for alcoholics That's the stylee!
• You guys are so lucky. I just deleted an entire vitriolic post. It was like having an online abortion.
• ...which of course is a private matter, between you and your IT guy.
• How Bush Blew It But it is not clear what President Bush does read or watch, aside from the occasional biography and an hour or two of ESPN here and there. Bush can be petulant about dissent; he equates disagreement with disloyalty*. After five years in office, he is surrounded largely by people who agree with him. Bush can ask tough questions, but it's mostly a one-way street. Most presidents keep a devil's advocate around. Lyndon Johnson had George Ball on Vietnam; President Ronald Reagan and Bush's father, George H.W. Bush, grudgingly listened to the arguments of Budget Director Richard Darman, who told them what they didn't wish to hear: that they would have to raise taxes. When Hurricane Katrina struck, it appears there was no one to tell President Bush the plain truth: that the state and local governments had been overwhelmed, that the Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA) was not up to the job and that the military, the only institution with the resources to cope, couldn't act without a declaration from the president overriding all other authority. *and he's a frickin' genius. Err, i mean, emphasis added.
• Counselor Bartlett made up a DVD of the newscasts so Bush could see them in their entirety as he flew down to the Gulf Coast the next morning on Air Force One. Amazing...
• To be fair, I didn't think that was so out of line. I mean, it's not like the POTUS should be tuned in to all major news sources at all times - although . . . there's got to be a better example. I thought the whole "dodged a bullet" thread was better for outlining how out of touch Shrubya is with MSM. (given that the goodness/badness of that is arguable)
• Chimpy claims 'full responsibility', but not really. Like when you offer an apology of 'I'm sorry you got upset', Chimpy puts blame on nameless gov't bureaucracy.
• I'm just amazed that Dubya was even able to put the words "I", "take", "full" and "responsibility" together. This has got to be the closest thing to an admission of a mistake that I've ever seen from him.
• Well let's forgive the poor bastard eh? He's been through enough! Four more years! Four more years! Sorry. It just reeks of Rove.
• I don't see it as admission of mistake, so much as a calculated move to protect others who would lose their jobs over this. By accepting responsibility, he deflects legitimate criticism away from his political appointees; and, since he's on his second term and these aren't impeachable offences, he does no real harm to himself.
• also, what rocket said.
• The Bush Era is Over?
• "I want to know what went right and what went wrong." Asshat. He couldn't just say, "I want to know what went wrong." He just had to imply that it was, at worst, fifty-fifty. Yo! Chimpy! You fucked it, bigtime. What gags me is how all the 'pubs are saying what a wonderful strong, humble man he is to admit when he's wrong. The bastard's got spin going so fast his arse is smokin'.
• The Governor didn't *explicitly* call for troops (.wmv file) The Governor did declare a state of Emergency for FEMA to act on Aug 27 (page 5 is most relevant) Tonight's heart-felt statement of compassion, excessivly massaged by the POTUS's handlers and over-rehearsed, will be delivered in New Orleans standing next to a really sweet poor child who has lost all of what little she had. Take care of people. Democracy . . . freedom. It's hard. Uhm, Safer! Uh, uhh tax cut for . . medicaided social security. Murphy Brown belittling the importance of fathers.
• Karl freakin' Rove
• So wiping out poverty and racial injustice is that easy after all! Phew... Amazing what a little $$ will do.