August 21, 2005

• I would go the length and get rid of the internet. You can go to the public library to check email, usually. If you recently moved, there is a possibility that the real problem is depression on some level rather than the internet. How much time are you spending online? I'm skeptical of most internet addiction because I know there are people that spend all their time watching sports or just tv or any other number of things all day long and don't think of it as "addiction," so unless it is a lot there is a chance that it might not be that big of a deal and, again, related to minor depression and a simple lack of not having anyone around to do things with. Barring that, if cold turkey isn't an option, there are things like timers and other things that might be of use. I would imagine if you look for computer use timer or soemthing like that on google you could find one, but I would imagine that anyone with a serious addiction would simply turn off such a program. One thing that might be somewhat usefull is that if you have an old school CRT, tv-tube, monitor is to turn down the refresh rate of the monitor to something really low, the flicker will hurt your eyes after a while and encourage you to turn it off.
• I'm sure ther'e some sort of 12 step program out there. As for the music playback/creation, sorry...that's a cop out. People listened to and created music long before computers. As for e-mail, you've already stated you've cut yourself off from flesh and blood contact...maybe some phone calls or actual snail mail on your part could mend those friendships/relationships. I don't mean to come off as gruff, but tough love is the only way to deal with something like this. You've already identified the problem(s), so take your life into your own hands and fix it. You can do it, really. Good luck! What are you still doing here? I mean right now...unplug the fucking computer and live your life...we'll still be here later when you have control of your life again. Go!
• Trim the number of sites you feel you need to visit. Once you have a manageable list, use RSS feeds so you know whether and when you need to visit them, then -- and this is important -- only go online when they update. Then turn off the computer. I'm on the Internet a lot, but I tend to use it as "background noise" for when I listen to music on my computer, and I listen to a lot of music.
• Um... I think MoFi is more ennabler than support group, stripe.
• *should have read "only go online once a day, when you're sure they've updated."
• Monkeyfilter; More enabler than support group.
• I just meander from site to interesting site, reading articles, messageboards, blogs, you name it... If you called it by a different name, you can simply redeclare it a religious experience rather than an addiction. Consider it a form of meditation and worship of a flow of information unmatched in the history of humanity. There is something to contemplate in drinking from the information firehose. Consider the Cat-5 jack as your cybernetic navel. In more seriousness, you could always go cold turkey and cancel your ISP account, stranding your computer away from the internet. If you want email, I'm sure there's a library or net cafe somewhere accessible. And you can still check monkeyfilter on occasion. This sort of limited access would keep you in contact with the net-world, but not permit you to default to an online-only existence.
• Well, as they say "people don't change until they want to change". I'm exactly the same way - I use the Internet to procrastinate (and I'm doing it right now!). Maybe the best thing to do would be to make a list of what you'd rather be doing instead -goals that you want to achieve within a certain timeframe (like, learn a language or play a sport) etc. I don't think going cold turkey will work unless you already have plans for what to do instead. Perhaps you should make your list (as specific, but realistic as possible seems to be the key). Then look to get others involved - peer groups sharing interests can help reinforce the new activities, and provide support, feedback and an impetus to keep going. Cutting internet access is probably a good thing, if you have other "more productive" interests planned already. Possibly let someone you know locally about your plan, so they can help you stick to it? (ie. visit them for your email checks, and since you're imposing on a friend, you'll find that you restrict your checks to when you really need to, rather than a random want). It all sounds incredibly cliched and trite (like all the self-help stuff out there), but it seems to be that simple, as long as you want to really commit to it. Lastly, if you find yourself faltering every now and then, don't blow it out of proportion. Just try to set up some sort of reminder about why you're trying to change your online habits - that's where the goals can help, if you see real benefits to the change. Good luck, and I'm now off to follow my own advice :)
• jcc brought up an interesting point...depression. one of the major symptoms of depression is lethargy, but it can also be a major cause...all feedback-loop style...i know that i definetly feel more depressed after lying about for days reading about all the artistic, political, and scientific accomplishments of others...try this...get some exercise. seriously...walk to the store or whatever it takes (i reccomend sweet moves)...you will feel much better...plus go out and meet people... if that doesn't work, then cut the cord...
• Is being on the internet having a negative effect on your life or causing you harm in some way? If not, i wouldn't be so quick to call it an addiciton. There are plenty of worse ways you could be spending your time. If you are unhappy about sitting in front of a computer all day, by all means get outside and do something in the sun, but that doesnt mean you have to throw out your computer...
• Do you currently have DSL or cable? Would it help if you switched to dial-up? Are there any providers anymore that actually have limited use plans?
• Well, I've been addicted to *real* addictive things, and it sounds to me like you just need some fucking discipline. Try amphetamines and other heavy drugs for a few years then get back to me on this "internet addiction" and whether you think it measures up. Sorry but I just can't take that seriously. Make yourself a little timetable, like a square grid on a bit of paper. Write in the hours of the day, and so forth. Give yourself 2 hours of net in the morning and a couple more at night after dinner. Then spend the rest of the time writing the great novel or something. Stick to it. Do not allow yourself to vary. This is a discipline issue, and will not go away if you cancel the net or kill your computer, it will transfer to something else in your life, like reading Woman's Day or shopping, or something. Personally, I find, having tried 12-step (which is a crock) and gone thru counseling (which can be a crock) and god knows what else dealing with *real* measurable damaging addictions, that addictive behaviour (excluding real physical addictions to chemicals) is largely a matter of habit and self-programming with constant navel gazing and negative affirmations like saying to yourself "I am addicted to the internet" or "I am addicted to pr0n" or "I am addicted to Oprah". Stop telling yourself you're fucking addicted, that is so much bullshit. Honestly, it is an overused word and has so many negative connotations, it really doesn't deserve to be in the same sentence with something as benign as the internet. Sheeeit. I mean, what is 'meaningful'? What is 'fulfilling'? What? This is a value judgement issue. Personally, I find sitting on my ass reading, thinking, and not being out among all the assholes out there to be pretty fucking fulfilling. That's just my opinion. Just make a timetable and stick to it. Discipline. After a while it is easy. Besides, if you are interested in what you are reading, what's the problem? You're not out raping and murdering. Sounds like you're feeding your brain. What is wrong with that? Just how constructive do you want to be? I mean, you're obviously earning enough to eat and pay for the internet. Stop telling yourself that you are doing something bad. That's the only problem you've got.
• if you cut this internet time out of your life, you have to replace it with something. what do you want to replace it with? i do the same thing, by default, particularly when i'm lonely, and have to remind myself to go out, hang out with people, discover the place i live (you said you just moved? how much do you know of your new neighborhood? where would you take your flesh-and-blood contacts if they were to visit?)
• Musician. I see.
• See, I'm a muso myself and have spent many years navel gazing and wondering what was wrong with me, when what was wrong with me was that I was wondering what was wrong with me and getting too self-involved. If I had to do it all again, I would forget about playing in bands; after all, finding people to play with in a new town is a major drag and can be rather depressing. I would load up a major professional bit of sequencing software like Cubase and just sit writing songs, recording and experimenting, then share them on the internet and set up a website, try to sell the tunes, just create albums and not even worry about any of that music schlep business gigging crap. You could make an album and get famous just from the net, make a million bucks. Make a million bucks then spend your free hours snorting coke out of the pubes of hookers and plooking each other. Now THAT's what I call fulfilling.
• Sign up for something that gets you out of the house at least two nights a week. Dog walking at the pound. Exercise class. Any kind of further education. You can do a book club for a third chance to get out. You might even find a meat-friend. Do it NOW!
• Oh, Clouds, that sooooo needs to be bolded: Monkeyfilter:P More enabler than support group.
• It's not a complete solution by any means, but if you are using 32-bit Windows, you could try Temptation Blocker - notionally at least, it helps you to hold out against "casual" Internet time-wastage - just block all your web browsers for x hours and then consider seriously whether you need to input the 32-character code to get online...
• All the monkeys see this thread and just sort of squirm uncomfortably.
• Gestas and Chyren done said it all.
• tannhauser beat me with a similar suggestion -- install something that cuts off your internet after X minutes a day. I'm blanking on names of programs, though.
• Listen to New Order, Krafty. Adjust life accordingly.
• Only allow yourself to go online while doing something that can only last a certain amount of time. Try holding your breath when you are online. Or doing some sort of leg-raising exercise. As for me, I had a similar problem and solved it by only going online while I am masturbating.
• You must be really good at typing with one hand.
• That won't help me. I'm always masturbating. Always.
• Get off your high neighing horses. Some of us out there don't relate to real people. For me, and I can't speak for stripe, I'm perfectly happy with the pretend. Just please stop promoting your half-assed meatspace urgings. It just isn't appropriate for everyone.
• I just had to google "meatspace" to see what the hell it was. Thought it might be a new Mel Brooks movie starring Bill Murray.
• no, sorry. That would be too cute.
• I empathize with you Stripe; obviously, if you feel it is a problem, it probably is. However... If you spent the same amount of time every day reading a book, would you consider that an addiction, or time well spent?
• Man, this is like going into a bar at nine AM and asking the people who are already in there drinking for help with your addiction to alcohol. It sounds like you'll be happier if you make it a priority to reestablish the face-to-face contacts you're missing in your new city. That being the case, going offline for a while might not be a bad idea. Of course you could 'just exercise some self control' or something like that, but a lot of alcoholics find it helps out with the self-control if you don't keep beer in the fridge. If you unplug yourself for a while you won't really miss anything- The Internet will still be here anytime you want to come back, with all the same ranting assholes (present company excepted, of course), videos of Japanese people slapping each other, and all the other great stuff that's on here now. And as easy as it is to get used to habitually going online to kill time, it's just as easy to get used to not doing that anymore. "Meatspace", by the way, is kind of a pointless designation, as there isn't anyplace else.
• Pretty much what Chy said (as usual; I find if I just wait for Chy to chyme in, he says what I might have, only less muddled). Try shutting off the computer for a weekend or a week; watch movies, read books, go for a hike, whatever. Decide after that time if you still feel it's a problem, or if you just needed a time-out. Maybe you're just feeling down because you've been doing something you enjoy to excess, and it's stopped being fun.
• You want help, or pity? We all are here to some point, and what Chy says has a lot of weight. However, if you are so concerned, go meet with support groups, call them, and walk to their office. Volunteer at your local UW, or hospital. Walk to buy your groceries. Go drink with your buddies. There is always somebody to call and meet. They can be your support group. As Nickdanger says, Monkeyfilter is more an enabler than a support group. But the individual monkeys have a lot of sense. Or so it seems.
• /peeks inside thread, scurries away
• We love you Stripe, don`t leave us. We want to share your brain!
• Buy a bag of good weed and hang out every night watching Comedy Central. (Used to be Discovery Channel was best for this, but then they stopped running shows about dinosaurs and Thompson's gazelles and began showing motorcycle mechanics 24/7.) After a week, return to the 'Net while patting yourself on the back for getting the boob tube out of your life.
• Well... as to what Chyren said about not being addicted... yes and no. It certainly isn't anywhere in the league of an actual chemical addiction. However, I think if you have any OCD tendencies (which I do), it can be easy to feel addicted (by which I mean that discipline component can be very difficult to achieve, and even if you've unplugged everything, you may still find yourself compelled to plug it all back in and go online again, just as some people are compelled to constantly check locks or wash hands - you may feel compelled to not miss anything or something like that). If you have any history of anxiety or panic disorders, and if you find that the "just get up and walk away" strategy is difficult for you, it really might be worthwhile to talk to a psych professional and see if you have some kind of compulsion to be online that is in some way treatable. This is, however, AFTER you try other solutions. Being on the internet for me is very close to compulsive book-buying (which only lack of funds keeps me from doing - my problem isn't bad enough to make me shoplift, fortunately). And if I weren't online, I wouldn't be filling my time with productivity and happy meatspace ventures... I'd be a little lonelier, and I'd be reading, which was what I did before I got my first computer 11 yrs ago. I bookmark almost every single site I visit. It's information hoarding, and it's a compulsion, second nature, I don't even think about it. I can sit here for hours if I don't keep track of time. (In fact, as I type this, it's been 2.5 hours.) I do, however, usually manage the self-discipline to stop, get up, do something else. Not always. I used to spend a lot of time on IRC, and I weaned myself by deleting mIRC - I DID have the discipline to keep myself from downloading it again. I also generally avoid AIM, because the only time I have to be on it is at night, and I wind up chatting way later than I should. But it is still on my computer and I've found it manageable. Lately a bout of depression actually helped me in this one respect, because I "wasn't deriving pleasure from activities I usually enjoy" - meaning that I got really bored with the internet, among many other things. =/ It also helps to go to the fiance's house - he has a computer but no internet connection. So there have been good suggestions here, like the Temptation Blocker, or like setting a timer. I don't think a schedule will work without a timer; I usually lose track of time when I'm online. I don't think that classes and activities are necessarily the solution: I have occasionally skipped classes, back when I was a student (esp late 90s to early 2ks), to stay online. Switching to dial-up will not help; it will only make your media downloads take longer. I think the two huge timesucks on the internet are actually text and games, and dialup hampers neither, though games can take a little while to load... I have never had anything faster, and still manage to waste hours and hours at a time. So - try discipline first, but try ways that adjust for any particular problems you might have. If you've worked at it for a bit, and haven't been able to figure out what's wrong with your methods, fix the problem, and make it successful, or else consider going to a psych pro and see if they think you have mild OCD. There are other symptoms that would be worth looking up as well; see if you feel like any of them fit you, either related to your internet usage or in a general whole-life sense. But this is only worth doing if all attempts at self-discipline and reduced-navel-gazing fail you: REALLY, try that first. HTH! :)
• Also - first of all, reading over that, it sounds like I consider myself "addicted" - I don't. I just realize that I have a strong compulsion and that I am not always successful with the discipline aspect, for whatever reason. It's NOT the same as addiction: it's not something I jones for, but something I often find myself doing. I can definitely pull myself away, and doing so has gotten easier over the years, especially after getting away from Usenet and IRC. Cold turkey was the way to go for both those things for me. Second of all - don't feel bad if you try one or two things and they fail. Just keep trying. You probably don't need to do anything as drastic as getting rid of the home connection or deleting your browsers. But be willing to try them if scheduling and timers, Temptation Buster, etc, don't work, and if you've already tried making it harder to go online (maybe unplug any necessary cords and/or, if on a laptop, store them so that it's mildly inconvenient to just plop your butt in front of the internet by default).
• People that tell you to "buck up" because your problems aren't "equal" to their problems are assholes. Your issues are your own, and your problems are real for you. Since you think you have a problem, it's a good chance you do, so you should try to fix it, even if you start by just getting out of the house more often or reading a book offline. Good luck.
• We love you Stripe, don`t leave us. We want to share your brain! By "share" we mean eat.
• Okay, now I'll give a real honest to god, and heartfelt!, suggestion: Join something. Start volunteering, two nights a week like someone said up above, go to a poetry reading circle, or one of those book clubs that meets at your locally owned bookstore, or some sort of group that shares your interests. Get out of the house, man.
• For me internet 'addiction' is different from simple procrastination and wasting time. I work on a computer all day, and I can get used to being locked into a screen, so that I feel a bit anxious to be in my own body. Also, it's a contact with the outside world and if you're feeling lonely that can be addicting. I'd agree that doing evening classes or something is a good idea. Also forcing yourself to do a hard workout or tidy up or something can bring you back to reality for a while.
• The hardest part for me about stepping away from the computer (or indeed any activity) is getting started on the next activity. If I want to do some gardening, it's the first five minutes while settling into that activity that is crucial, because otherwise I'll just decide it's too much work, why start? and go back to the computer (or the TV or book). Once I'm under way, it's easy. So if you choose something to replace your computer time, make sure you can step right into doing it without the dithering beforehand. Get immersed as quickly as possible and before you know it, time passes.
• Why not have the best of both worlds and hold a MoFi meetup in your area? I've yet to meet an uninteresting monkey that way. I also second sexyrobot's advice to get out and go for a walk. It does wonders for me when I need to clear my head or pull myself out of a computer screen induced haze.
• I'm addicted to mofi. Seriously. Me and Capt Renault. F5....F5....F5...F5...
• Why there is no such thing as internet addiction