Let your fellow monkeys know you're safe and sound!
And a bus just blew up in Tavistock Square. Deaths reported.
I was just about to get the train into London when I heard.
The news on the bbc seems a bit garbled at the moment. There was reports of 3 or 4 bus explosions, but now they seem to think it was just one.
Also, my brother would have been around Liverpool Street and Aldgate at the time. I hope he's alright (obviously). It seems mobile phones aren't working in London at the moment though
Just called my sister (who lives in London) - she's safe at home, thank fuck.
London monkeys, please check in...
I don't use the Underground much. I had to make a small diversion because of policemen blocking the road outside Westminster tube, but that's all. The office is more than half empty.
There's a good stream of info over at MeFi, but if at all possible, a check in here would be greatly appreciated as well.
In the meantime, much monkey love and support; please let us know if and what we can do to help.
They're now talking about there about to be a 'series of controlled explosions' in the next 30 minutes or so. Sounds like they've found more devices.
I usually Vespa it around London, but my steed died last week so I've been back on the tube - fortunately I was late going in today and found Brixton tube already shut when I got there ... Mrs Dotcom was due to go to Euston this afternoon, she's not now. Thank god it was this afternoon ...
Still very confused, now rumours of a train crash at Kings X
Hopefully that's all it is...(a rumour)
Are any mobiles working in London? I can't get through to anyone at the moment
In Holborn here.
oh no oh no oh no.
*prays for londoners*
Apparently you might be able to text, if not call on a mobile...
Are any mobiles working in London? I can't get through to anyone at the moment
Texting works for me but voicing is not too clever.
They've evacuated *Brighton* station. Damn.
Mobile networks are very congested ... they're working sporadically on text and voice calls. Landline networks also congested.
and swindon ... who wants to bomb swindon????
Met police commissioner Blair (not Tony!) says 6 explosions, 1 on bus. Transport entirely closed
Any monkeys from Lewisham? I've got a brother on Torridon road and there's no answer.
I like reuters websites lead story at the moment:
"Unexplained explosions in the London underground network, and oil prices at fresh record levels, were likely to hammer U.S. equity markets when they open on Thursday"
I get the distinct impression from the CNN coverage that they are trying to keep a lid on panic, and so deaths and injuries are being purposely under-reported.
In Brick Lane, safe. At least five, possibly six bombs. Entire network shut down. Liverpool Street Station closed off, but bizarrely surrounding area not evacuated - you can walk right up to it.
Mobile phone reception patchy at best, some networks out completely.
East London is a ghost town. Slow convoys of buses being used to carry the injured away from the scenes.
Tv is possibly saying 20 dead now (from a friend in a n office up the road with a telly). Tony B to make a statement at 12.
Meanwhile, Bush wowed by mountain landscape.
What the fuck is that story doing here?
All you monkeys that are safe, thank god. All you monkeys who haven't written in yet, please do. Please be all right. Please
Nobody's being allowed out of the building here, and only delayed staff are coming in. More or less continuous sirens.
Tony Blair says it's definitely a terrorist attack. The G8 summit will go on. He's flying to London, then returning to Gleneagles.
It sounds like the worst may be at King's Cross. They are only just beginning to bring up the worst casualties now. Rumours a train exploded, and then crashed into another train.
London isn't supposed to be this quiet. Far-off sirens the only sound.
I'm glad we invaded Iraq. Just imagine what would have happened, had we not(!)
Bliar is still vowing to defeat terrorism, but at least he can actually pronounce the word.
Was the bus that exploded populated at the time? Also, any authoritative word on how many buses? Some sources say one (the one in Russell Square), but some others say three.
hugs for all monkeys, but especially the London ones
MeFi thread says that some Islamist group claims responsibility, vows to go after Denmark and Italy next. No word of that yet on news.google.co.uk.
well fucking shit. this is insane
blair's speech was particularly moving. when the news interrupted regular programming, the first thing i thought was:
fuck, something happend at g8, where people are working so hard on the problems of poverty and the problems of the world so that shit like this doesn't happen
maybe i'm just so caught up in my own politically correct liberalism that is just couldn't find the word to describe it
but yeah tony, barbaric is right
In some ways, we're kind of used to this, thus the relatively good emergency plan of action. We had this from various groups (mainly IRA etc) for years, but I for one was kind of thinking we'd seen the last of this in the UK. I am sickened that we have not.
I'm still waiting for someone to declare this another good day to bury bad news.
Keep safe, all you monkeys. I remember having to phone people up when the IRA bombed Victoria. My thoughts are with you all, despite my politically incorrect snark.
fuck, something happend at g8, where people are working so hard on the problems of poverty and the problems of the world so that shit like this doesn't happen
to innoculate myself against potential snarkiness, by that i mean people are trying - whether there be substantial results or not..
The IRA was last this active in the early nineties. There are teenagers today who have never known what a dangerous IRA was like.
MoFi ate my comment! What I said was that I am waiting for someone governmental to declare this another good day to bury bad news.
I also said that I remember phoning friends and relatives after the IRA bombed Victoria, so my thoughts are with all the London Monkeys, despite my politically incorrect snark.
Terrorangrepet. A slide show, including pictures of the bus. Click on the picture to go to the next one. You don't need to understand Norwegian.
It does sort of take me back to the heyday of the IRA bombing campaign, kitfisto. I hope we're not in for years of that again, though.
What Alnedra said.
Now even my daughter thinks that tourists are attacking London.
This actually reminds me of the first WTC attack. I wonder what the UK is in for.
Rumours of a suicide bomber shot at Canary Wharf; entire area cordoned off. Just rumour; unconfirmed. Bloomberg reporting that al-Quaida Europe are claiming responsibility.
My husband gave me the news when I got up this morning. He didn't say it was King's Cross, though. I was instantly reminded of when I lived in England (early 80s) and how the IRA almost got Maggie Thatcher.
Hugs to English and other British monkeys and all of you with loved ones in danger. If I were the praying sort, I'd pray for you.
Hugs to English and other British monkeys
Aw man I always miss out.
London monkey here - though staying in Coventry at the moment. Strikes me that the emergency services are managing this superbly well. We have had plenty of this sort of thing in the past, after all (though the IRA usually gave some kind of warning).
Am alive, hoping all monkeys in Britain and those they love are the same.
It's interesting to note that, for the first crucial few hours, they maintained the outright lie that it was power surges which had caused the blasts and shut down the network. To avoid panic, I suppose, and it worked - people have just been a bit confused, but hysteria seems to have been kept at bay so far.
I still don't understand how people were allowed to stand around at Liverpool Street, though. That seemed very unsafe.
So what lie they will use next time? And what if there really is power trouble?
BTW, I disagree that terrorists have "no respect for human life", as Tony Bliar claims.
ho hum.
We're providing updates, if you want yet another news source. News addiction. Nothing else to do, I suspect.
Hugs to all monkeys. I really hope our UK monkeys are all ok. The insanity continues...
Good news feed here:
http://www.newsnow.co.uk/newsfeed/?name=London+Explosions
Scary, scary- thoughts are with London monkeys.
"timed to co-inside the G8 summit"- Had to read that three times, flashboy, before I figured it out.
I've just been out on my lunch and noticed a few more police hanging around here than usual(Liverpool). Probably happening all over the UK, I should think.
Home sec Clark confirmed only 4 explosions, down from a peak of 6 reported earlier.
Those who are complaining about 'lies' from London Transport are underestimating the confusion that must have reigned - even if it was clear locally that these were explosions, and even when it became clear to those *not* on the ground that there were several explosions at the same time, your average LU employee would not have known that. It takes time for information to get through.
There were a few comments on the BBC website from those who had heard people tutting about not being told what was going on, and doing the usual London thing of complaining of the delays - aside from being typical of the English, this shows that your average LU employee was probably trying to find some explanation as to what happened. Describing this as outright 'lies' - I don't think this can be accurate.
News addiction is right - everyone I know is ok, as far as I know, and yet I am compulsively trying to stay totally up to date with what's going on. Very strange.
Fuck. Just woke up and turned on the news here in NYC. Fuck. I don't know what to say. I can't even get my shit together to leave for work. Just sending London monkeys lots of prayers.
Checking in. Me and Mine are all fine. Can anyone think of any London monkeys who haven't checked in yet? Does Mothninja live in London still?
Thank you, Blair & Bush, for a safer world.
Hello Weez. Glad you're OK.
LT staff at Brixton Tube were saying this morning 'it was a power surge, at least that's what I've been told' I realised right away it was terrorism, but the LT staff could only tell me what they'd been told themselves ...
Skrik - this might not be the time to make the sort of posts you've been making in this thread - perhaps a bit too soon??? - but it is a good point. The west's hands are not clean. We need a long period of peace and reflection before we respond to whoever's done this.
Hey Kit, hey quid, hey Alendara, hey Pleg. Hey everyone else.
/places fist over heart, bows head
Hey weez. (mothy's in firenze methinks). Carolingian unreported as yet.
On the contrary, this is the perfect time to make the points Skrik is making, and I applaud him for making them.
To be frank, I am surprised that more attacks don't happen in US cities. Consider, after all, that most US cities still, after four years, haven't a clue how to handle a terrorist attack, not to mention that the US population isn't stoic or level-headed by any measure. That Al Qaeda is picking a difficult target like London doesn't speak greatly about their intelligence.
Secret Organisation al Qaeda in Europe claims responsibility.
What a crap fucking name. If you want to bomb my capital city, you chuffing nonces, at least give yourself a decent name.
Now fuck off.
Hey, Weezel. Glad you're ok. Moth's well away from London right now, no worries.
They are fools, sowing the seeds of their own destruction and the destruction of their countrymen and coreligionists of good will.
My heart and thoughts are with London today. Be safe, English monkeys. I don't presume to speak for all Americans, but this American stands in support of the UK today, and every day. You did not deserve this, no matter what anyone says today or in the future. Murder in service to a political point is simply murder.
Wow. The office is mostly empty. Everyone was given leave to go home, but I live an hour away by tube. I'll stay with my girlfriend tonight, but for now I have nowhere else to go. How am I supposed to answer questions about Broadband with all this going on?
...I never fail to be reminded how blessed of a life I live sometimes. I just wish the reminders didn't involve other people's pain.
"They are fools, sowing the seeds of their own destruction.."
That's the sort of thinking that started this shit.
Murder in service to a political point is simply murder.
So you have finally decided that the Iraq war is not morally right? Or are your words as empty as they sound?
Will you kindly stop trying to score politcal points, gentlemen? Or, you know, start another thread. Please.
Thanks for the links, everyone. Morning news on the main U.S. networks is particularly incompetent this morning -- looping three second shots of two policemen running and a motorbike heading the wrong way in a left-turn lane, and interviews with some kid from Jersey who helped with triage. Only concentrating on American casualties, and what this means for the U.S.
CBC radio is much better, but there's still a real lack of any concrete detail. Host Mark Kelley is doing a good job, although he's coming up with some tortured metaphors ("javelin-shaped spears of metal" -- aren't all spears javelin-shaped?). Not that I could do a better job.
Good to hear from everyone so far, hope that everyone else is OK. Let us know what we can do.
Unconfirmed 45 dead now. BBC still sticking at 2.
My poor London. First the Olympics and now this. God only knows what she's going to end up like by the time I get back.
It was not my intention to make a political point, or provoke a response, but simply to voice my support for the UK. I regret making my previous post.
Be safe, English monkeys
Oh, that's the second time I've been burned in this thread. Goddam you Fes, you heartless ogre.
There's always a place on my casting couch for you, my foreign-national friend...
Fes, it was much less you than those going "ha!" right back at you. Your thoughts and support are much appreciated. I'm not saying that this is not the time to think of politcal matters, far from it; it is simply that this is not the place.
Sorry if this question is too personal, but what nationality are you, Quid? (I gather you live in London.) Or, in case I've misparsed it, are you a citizen of the UK, just not of England?
oh, lord, everybody please be ok. Please.
*cries*
Fucking hell. The unconscionable bastards. So sorry, all. Is The Carolingian the only one we know yet unaccounted for?
I'll be thinking of all you UK monkeys YES AND QUIDNUNC DAMMIT today. As Fes said, be safe.
Rumour of second suicide bomber being apprehended/shot outside a London bridge branch of the Home Office. Unsubstantiated as yet.
Holy living mother of fuck.
Quid is an Australian, by the way.
Yeah, I heard that too. Haven't seen much else on it since, but yes, holy living mother of fuck.
Shock is beginning to turn to anger at the moment...
I'll be interested to see what the reaction to this will be, other than the obvious. The Americans would probably band together and become more certain of their WoT (while Bush would take more power) but the Poms are likely to say 'oh, well, flypaper idea didn't work, did it, twats?'
All these fucking cameras all over London didn't do shit, did they?
On the one hand, you have people here working to alleviate poverty and rid the world of AIDS. The contrast couldn’t be clearer between the hearts of those who care about human liberty and those who would take the lives of innocent folks. The war of terror goes on. We will not yield to terror. We will spread an ideology of hope and compassion that will overwhelm their ideology of hate.
So saith President George W. Bush. The war of terror goes on. Amen.
On preview: where are you all getting these rumors? Links would be greatly appreciated!
I'll give it 24 hours before Clark comes out with a statement along the lines that ID cards would have prevented this.
Just to cheese me off abit more.
Is the Carolingian the only one we know yet unaccounted for?
Well, no - LandofGreenGinger, Zimf, and jacobw, for example, and I'm sure there are others - but the chances are they just haven't checked Mofi today.
Not links, tensor - it's via word of mouth. A source in the Home Office, in the case of the alleged London Bridge bomber. We're reporting it here, as I said before.
tensor - Sky News is being quite good today. There's a thread on the blue too.
Looking at the beeb, it seems as though Parliament is still in session.
Well done!
AP says 40 killed, 300 injured. I've read as much as 70 killed, but this seems like the most believable source so far. BBC is still sticking with "at least 2 killed".
Britain is now burning with fear, terror, and panic in its northern, southern, eastern, and western quarters.. From the terrorists' statement.
Er...no, we're not actually, you dumb fuck.
45/1000 according to Sky, but I distrust the Murdoch empire reflexively.
What a day to get my DSL back up & running. Very relieved to see you monkeys are okay.
My worry is that they still haven't brought out a lot of the casualties from the King's Cross/Russell Square tube. Early reports suggested that it might have been the worst. But, obviously, we just don't know.
On preview: absolutely, kitfisto. We're pissed off, we're moping, we're hooked to every news source we can find and we're deeply concerned about loved ones. But we are not, fucking not, terrorised. Fuckwits.
Oh hell! My thoughts go out to all of you in London. I knew something must be up when I walked past the UK Embassy here in NYC this morning and saw police stationed outside. Glad to see the monkeys checking in...
There is speculation in wikinews that there is an official media blackout about the King's Cross station.
Amen brother flashboy, amen
Secret Al Qaeda Jihad Organization
Jesus fuck, what a lame name. I look forward to SAS kicking down the door of their fucking Secret Clubhouse.
bravo, flashboy
kitfisto, is the full statement you quoted available online somewhere? Can't seem to find it...
And bravo for your words!
glad to see that london-resident monkeys are okay. i've been able to sms friends in london (and got some replies back), but can't get calls through.
this is so totally fucked up...
It IS a lame name. All it needs is a couple of 'durka durkas' after it.
Thinking of you UK-based monkeys.
Morning news on the main U.S. networks is particularly incompetent this morning
Thank god I can get BBC news on the web, Capt. Renault.
Haven't checked the *filters in a while - been working on graduating. When I heard about this I wanted to add my hope that all the monkeys are OK (yes, you too, Quid). Sorry, UK, you didn't ask for this. You've been a good friend to the US, as stupid as we can be some times; you don't deserve to get this sort of thing just because you stuck by us.
I'll hold my personal opinion of the effectiveness of the War on Terror until after we have given the victims and their families some time to grieve.
It's on flash's site
My return statement to them is - Fuck right off now. I'm laughing at you.
We're pissed off, we're moping, we're hooked to every news source we can find and we're deeply concerned about loved ones. But we are not, fucking not, terrorised. Fuckwits.
posted by flashboy at 03:05PM UTC on July 07, 2005
Right on.
Morning news on the main U.S. networks is particularly incompetent this morning
Thank god I can get BBC news on the web, Capt. Renault.
Haven't checked the *filters in a while - been working on graduating. When I heard about this I wanted to add my hope that all the monkeys are OK (yes, you too, Quid). Sorry, UK, you didn't ask for this. You've been a good friend to the US, as stupid as we can be some times; you don't deserve to get this sort of thing just because you stuck by us.
I'll hold my personal opinion of the effectiveness of the War on Terror until after we have given the victims and their families some time to grieve.
On preview: flashboy - your justified outrage and defiant attitude are just what we need here. You were one of the first people to welcome me here, glad you're OK.
33 confirmed fatalities by London police. 4th bomb has fatalities, numbers unconfirmed.
Condolences to all those in london...
I hope everyone, monkey or not, is ok.
If there's a silver lining to this -- it's good that it didn't happen during Live 8 or the Olympic celebrations yesterday. That could have been much worse, relatively speaking.
we're all brits today. my thoughts are with all the monkeys across the pond.
we're all brits today
AAAUUUUGH!
except quid.
*wtf*? I think it is just the time to express one's opinion on the war on terror.
and the press release onslaught has begun. EVERYONE wants to be the first to offer condolences and get their angle out:
WTTC expresses its sympathy to all those affected by the blasts in London
London, UK - 7 July 2005 - The terrorist attacks which took place in Central London today have sent waves of the most profound shock around the world. The World Travel & Tourism Council (WTTC) expresses its deepest sympathy to all those whose lives have been touched, directly or indirectly, by the explosions.
[snip]
WTTC President, Jean-Claude Baumgarten said, “Now, more than ever, people should keep their travel plans and take the opportunity to visit family, friends and new places all over the world in order to meet others, thus creating an international community of understanding and peace. Not doing this would be to play into the hands of the terrorists.”
###
"we're all brits today."
Sentiment understood, but personally I can do without the sacharine stuff. We're all human beings today.
I grew up in London, have lots of close friends there. It's not the first time we've weathered terrorist attacks, but a more major one than ever before. London will recover, so will Londoners. Vows of righteousness and emotional statements should be kept in abeyance, imho, in favour of cool, calm rationality. Otherwise we are more apt to be manipulated by politicians.
If there's a silver lining to this -- it's good that it didn't happen during Live 8 or the Olympic celebrations yesterday.
They probably planned it to coincide with the G8. London wasn't an Olympic favourite, and Live8 probably had too much security. I find Livingston's remarks somewhat reassuring for this reason -- I am sure Al Qaeda would have wanted to strike directly at presidents and prime ministers, but were just too incompetent to manage that. Hitting the common man is far easier. I think that's the silver lining here, that AQ is so incompetent.
Oh, that kitten is going to fuck up some terrorists. Special Agent Meow Mix is on the case. Where we see a big scary extremist, he sees nothing but a little mouse with a bell in it.
>>personally I can do without the sacharine stuff.
i offered that sentiment because immediately following 9/11 several overseas folks told me that and it brought me comfort.
what i meant was, we're all with you in spirit. we're all one in your pain.
nothing saccarhine about that, sorry if it came off that way.
"I think that's the silver lining here, that AQ is so incompetent."
Huh?
First off, Al Qaeda or those who claim to be Al Qaeda have been extremely competent. Secondly, despite a claim by some group somewhere, we don't know who is responsible for this, yet. Let's try not to live in a fantasy land.
NP, SideDish, I apologise for snapping. I think perhaps I should follow my own advice re: calm.
It's baked goods we need now, Sidey. Pre-heat that oven!
I think it is just the time to express one's opinion on the war on terror.
Read flashboy's comment again. He agrees with you about the time, but disagrees about place. It's a sensible request, and my apologies if anything I've said has been unduly offensive.
This looks like a job for the Guerilla Gorillas. To the Gorilla van, Guerillas!!!
Too much conflicting information for me to be anything other than furious right now. You are all in my thoughts. Excellent blog, flashboy. I'm checking it regularly for updates.
Thanks for the kittens. They help. With the ASS-KICKING, I mean. Leaving the 'Net now. Peace and love, y'all.
/salutes, bows, spins on heel and walks sadly away
From the beeb's story on the bus bomb:
"In the garden square where terrorists chose to ignite a bomb on a bus full of ordinary people is a statue of Gandhi."
Fuck.
*grabs telephone, looks for a terrorist to punch*
What with monkeys in unitartds and counterstrike kittens, their sorry asses are so owned right now!
I'm going to see if I can get home.
Secondly, despite a claim by some group somewhere, we don't know who is responsible for this, yet. Let's try not to live in a fantasy land.
We certainly don't know, but we can make a good guess. Terrorist groups often have signature methods of attack. With Al Qaeda, it's synchronized bombings/attacks at multiple locations. Of course it could be a copycat group, or the similarities could be incidental, but right now the pattern fits.
Let me put it this way -- I would be surprised if it wasn't Al Qaeda. If it's fantasy to believe it's Al Qaeda, it is at least less of a fantasy than believing that this sort of attacks have any real value for a cause, whatever that cause.
Stay safe pleggers!
Be careful out there, Plegmundo the Magnificent!
Al Qaeda as a worldwide networked group don't exist, they're a unifying ideal for psycho fundamentalists more than anything else. Any ragtag group of fundo muslims who want to blow something up in the west are likely to link themselves with Al Qaeda because of their fame and the WTC atrocity. Synchronised bombings are not particularly new. If there's evidence that a real Al Qaeda planner linked to Bin Laden coordinated this, I'll buy it, but just now it is some unknown group making a claim. No question that it is some extreme group of Islamo fascists.
In the garden square where terrorists chose to ignite a bomb on a bus full of ordinary people is a statue of GandhiThis is the square of which they speak, BTW.
Thanks, quiddy!
Safe journey, Pleggy.
33 confirmed dead now by BBC...
Stay safe, Pleggers.
London Line blog was fucking great today, flash.
Ditto that, flash.
I don't suppose there's anything we non-locals can do?
Of all the bizzarity to result from this, the worst has to be Pope Benedictus XVI's declaration that these attacks were "anti-Christian".
WHAT.
THE.
FUCK.
Pope?
You know, because Christians are so un-Muslim. Gotta get that distinction in. (geez, Pope!)
Papa Razzi obviously didn't read Red Ken's statement. He should have.
REPORTING QUESTION!! any london monkeys answer this?? about how far is scotland yard from the site of the bombings in the financial district? a colleague just got an interview with her senator, who was in scotland yard at the time, and she'd like to tell readers how far that is away from bombings. thanks tons.
About 3 miles, I think.
Scotland yard is south west of the site, nearer the river.
I think - I looked on Google maps and a route planner.
thanks kit -- we couldn't find a location for scotland yard as its site was overloaded and news stories never mention its location. thanks tons!
My thoughts and prayers are with all you Brits today, and for the one complaining Aussie in the back as well...
SideDish - my colleague says "a fair whack - a good mile and half at least" - it's about 200 yards from the Houses of Parliament. It was closer to the Tavistock Square bombing - 2.3 miles, according to Google Maps.
And 3.2 miles to Liverpool Street, which is near the financial area. Postcode is SW1H 0BG if you want to find it on a map yourself.
Irony alert: Muslim extremists set off a bomb in a park featuring a statue of Gandhi, who was assassinated by a fundamentalist Hindu because of his very vocal support of Muslims in the newly-created nation of Pakistan. Insane.
My prayers go out to the London residents among us. Y'all are my dawgs.
thanks quid and flashboy, very helpful info for us clueless yank reporters.
While flipping through Louis Fischer's book The Essential Gandhi just now, the following quote (from a 1947 letter) stood out for me:
You must not lose faith in humanity. If a few drops are dirty, the ocean does not become dirty.
As difficult as it may be to remember sentiments such as that on a day like today, it's probably not a bad idea to try.
Tensor, or should I say Mr Sarcasmo, I will bring this up here and pursue it no further, but:
> No hard evidence of a 'vast international terrorist organization with trained operatives in more than 40 countries' headed by Bin Laden has ever been found, despite torture etc.
> In the UK, 700 - odd people have been detained on suspicion of terrorism since 2001, but only 17 have been found guilty, most of them with no connection to Islamist groups and none who were proven members of Al Qaeda.
> Rumsfeld claimed in 2001 that Al Qaeda controlled massive high-tech cave complexes in Afghanistan. British and U.S. forces later found no such thing.
> If Al Qaeda is a massive worldwide network, why is it that no fucking arrests have taken place outside Afghanistan & Pakistan, no money transfer system, planning groups or members have been found by the west's intelligence services anywhere outside of that hotbed area?
OF COURSE there are fanatic Islamic terrorists, and many claim to be part of Al Qaeda, but even the CIA last year concluded that there were less than 30 actual individuals (IIRC) in that group. 'Al Qaeda' is an *idea*. The name itself only means "The Foundation". It's a political concept to unify many disparate groups under Bin Laden's ideology.
Just back home after struggling to get the pupils home from school: a government state of emergency fax meant we weren't allowed to let them go on the buses, even though they are still running in our part of London.
My better half works in Liverpool Street: he is fine, as I make him go in to work ridiculously early, so he missed the blast. He is now trying to trek home, despite the fact that there are no buses or tubes in zone 1. So it will be a while before I see him I think.
There are Chinook helicopters flying overhead. Bizarre.
Chyren: I can answer every one of those points, some better than others, but I won't do it in this thread. Perhaps a more apropriate thread can be found or created.
Good to hear you and yours are safe, LoGG.
I'm off too kids. Look after yo'selves. Much love, and here's to a peaceful walk home for all.
Be safe, quid. I still owe you a beer, and I'll be damned if I don't deliver.
"My better half works in Liverpool Street: he is fine, as I make him go in to work ridiculously early, so he missed the blast."
Well, you're going to tell him that from now on of course that as his welfare was insured by your smart preemptive thinking, there's a few other things you recommend in life that he would be well advised to follow. Heh.
;- )
(Well wishings to Londonites btw)
I always suspected that quid was unitarded. :D Have a good and peaceful walk everyone.
Here's wishing all London monkeys and their loved ones are safe and well. Even that quidraunch fellow.
Just got the news. I'm so sorry, London monkeys (and those with loved ones there)! I'm glad that, so far, all of the monkeys are safe and I'm sending my prayers (or good vibes) your way.
CNN is reporting 33 dead, and Fox News is reporting 45 dead and is saying that authorities have told people to "run as fast as you can" away from Victoria Station. I tend to distrust Fox (our version of Sky News).
Victoria Station has just closed again - suspect package.
Also, for USian monkeys with digital cable, BBC America is running news feed from BBC World, so if you get sick of the America-centric reportage from CNN and Fox you can turn there.
To the Monkeys on the other side of the pond: Thanks for checking in. I hope you and yours are safe and continue to be safe. Take care everyone.
What Chyren said.
Take care, people.
Thanks for the thoughts and best wishes from non-London Monkeys. It's very touching.
Chyren: I'm with you.
We've been here before, The IRA had a pretty good go at London in the 80's and 90's and it didn't stop us then. Those using the name of Al Quaida won't stop us now.
But what stopped the IRA was talking to them, not trying to defeat them through force.
This may be impossible to answer but have all of our (at least regularly active) London-based Monkeys checked in with us yet? I get so hand-wringy clear across the globe here!
jacobw is fine. Still no word from carolingian and zimf, huh? And isn't dreadnaught in London now?
I've been keeping my head down for other reasons (moficdx group 7 i have not forgotten you) but in a case like this i think should at least stick my hand up and say i'm fine and was nowhere near the centre of London today. The others hopefully have probably just got delayed by combination of a long walk back out of town and the sudden tropical showers this evening.
Dreadnought (I hope) is in Cambridge. Although jb said they were getting married in a couple of weeks (right?), so he might even be in Canada by now. But I'm pretty sure that he's not in London.
Good to know about jacobw, bone.
*worries about carolingian and zimf*
hugs and wishes for the loved ones of all in london, monkey and otherwise (and quidwise!)
I hope the last of the monkey role call will be filled in soon!
Oh, my Monkeys, I'm so glad you're all safe. Still hoping none of the Brit lurkers were caught up in the horror.
All the mothers, fathers, daughters, sons--all the innocent caught up in this--so sad.
Hate begets hate down through the ages. When will we learn?
perhaps if we sent a few cute kittens to osama bin laden and asked verrrrry nicely for him to please stop this, that might do some good. i don't believe kitten diplomacy has been attempted yet, correct me if i'm wrong.
Very thankful for the safety of our monkeys in London. Condolences to Brits everywhere.
Welllll... there was Dick Whittington's cat, wasn't there? Does that count as kitten diplomacy?
Another slight derail: apparently jb and Dreadnought are getting married on Sunday, if plans have not changed. Very glad for them, and glad Dreadnought's not in London right now.
question i've been pondering: why do you think terrorists are focusing more on europe? there was madrid and now london, and in their alleged message they mentioned italy and denmark as possible next targets. why hasn't the U.S. been hit since sept. 11? just curious as to any theories out there.
and i hope jb and dread post wedding pics on the wiki!
"question i've been pondering: why do you think terrorists are focusing more on europe?"
Much easier targets. Increased security and xenophobia in the US, plus sheer distance, makes more difficult to mount an attack. Easier for people from the middle east to get into Europe and hence UK, plus they don't stand out that much there.
I wonder if maybe Paris would've gotten hit if they'd been named the 2012 Olympic city. I think this was deliberately timed to coincide with whatever European city (London or Paris) was named the 2012 Olympic site, since the city that was picked would be jubilant and thus possibly caught off guard. That's my theory.
Ping!
Sorry for the delay, some trouble with traffic this evening.
I travelled along the route of the blasts this morning, but before everything happened. I did not see or hear anything.
The mood at work was understandably a bit muted today, but people were working as usual (although checking the news all the time).
Thanks for checking in, Carolingian! Glad to hear you're well.
Doubt if this were timed for the Olympic announcement--more likely the G8 or just a general plan to attack all/any of the countries that have troops in Irag to divide them from supporting the US efforts.
If it was the latter, I apologize on behalf of America for keeping your troops there. But, the blame must go to the cowards who take innocent lives --in London, in Iraq, anywhere.
"I am sure Al Qaeda would have wanted to strike directly at presidents and prime ministers, but were just too incompetent to manage that. Hitting the common man is far easier. I think that's the silver lining here, that AQ is so incompetent." -Tensor
I liked it better when I believed that they were targetting symbols of Global Capitalism (WTC) or Global Military (Pentagon, USS Cole). Now that the seem to be just targeting people, I am much more worried. The only difficult part about setting off bombs in public is getting your hands on the bombs in the first place.
Thanks, Carolingian. Is that all London monkeys accounted for?
As GranMa pointed out, I hope none of our lurkers were affected. Perhaps this is a good time to raise your voice!
More fuel for the hatred.
More innocents becoming useful tools.
Shit.
What will happen due to this, what the reaction will be, that's troubling.
More fuel for the hatred.
This isn't fuel. This *is* the hatred.
Just in case anyone starts running the jingoist "Why don't Muslim leaders speak out more?" noise.
Also, a question: Today as I was riding around beautiful Lake Monona (Madison, WI in the US), I passed a man standing by the road waving a huge UK flag. I'm interested to know if this hyperactive flag-waving happens in other places when such a tragedy strikes. Did Spain see a spike in flag sales after the Madrid atrocity?
And FWIW, Aljazeera is quoting MSNBC translator Jacob Keryakes saying the group misquoted the Qura'n, which suggests the claim may be phony.
I have nothing to add here but my deepest sympathy & love & stuff to all London monkeys, mefis, mechas and, well, everyone. So I'm adding that.
What roryk said, and can we stop abusing the word cowardly? I think ignoble or base or scumsucking might fit the bill, but clearly a coward does not do this kind of thing; he/she would be too afraid to.
No, they are fucking cowards. I invite any of these fucks to come and have a word with me one one one and see what happens.
I am a skinny, unhealthy, anti-war shite out, but I'll fucking go toe to toe with any one of these bomber shits right now.
I haven't had a fight since school, BTW (20 yrs ago) but I'm willing to scratch that good non-violent record right now.
My sister has had a shit day trying to find out if her friends are still alive, for fuck's sake, as have I, to a lesser degree.
Bravery is standing up in the FACE of the enemy, not planting bombs amongst unarmed civilians. Latest word is that the bus bomb went off by mistake. Good. Out of the 2 confirmed deaths there, it looks like one of them was the cowardly bomber fuck who hoped to leave it somewhere then fuck off for his brekky. I hope he didn't die straight away.
We are sad and we are angry, but we are not fucking cowed.
Sorry if this sounds bad, but I hope you understand. I'm a freaking pacafist really, but I've just spent the last 3 hrs wathing it on TV for the first time today. 'Cowards' is pretty much how I would sum these fucks up.
Thanks for the kittens.
Sorry for shit spelling. Bit emotional. I'm off now. See you all tomorrow. I hope you are all well.
And I didn't mean to shout at any fellow monkeys, so no offence intended. It's not you I'm angry with.
Thanks for thinking of me, folks, and sorry not to have reported in sooner. I didn't actually realize you-all would be worried about me until I started noticing the loghits from here.
I hope you and all your loved ones (in London and elsewhere) are well and safe tonight.
Cheers to you guys for holding your shit together. No tv coverage yet, but everything I've read and heard, when not saddening me, impresses me with how "resilient" people can be under horrible circumstances.
My sympathy and sorrow for all Londoners, wherever they may be.
I would just like to point out that this is why I love MoFi so much. I feel like I have recieved more love and support from you wonderful folks than anywhere else. Even good friends and people I work with can't express this kind of emotion and honesty. Maybe it's because we're not face to face, and we are typing rather than speaking. Regardless, this has made me feel much better.
GROUP HUG!!!!!
This has also made me remember how much I enjoyed the Monkey Meetups I went to. I love putting faces to the names, and I feel like I've grown closer to the whole forum. Anyone wanna meetup again soon? If there isn't much of a response here, I'll post a regular thread on the main page.
*hugs kitfisto*
on preview, *hugs weezel too*
*counts heads*
Ok, all known monkeys accounted for? Great. I can sleep now.
Everybody take care. All London monkeys having a drink at the pub, have a pint for me (^_^)
I'm very relieved that it seems that everyone I know in Londond seems to be fine
Driving around the M25 this afternoon was fairly surreal - every sign above the road just said "London closed"
Wow, first London was calling and now it's closed. How fickle :)
tannhauser got in touch to say he's OK too. One more unexploded monkey, hurrah.
Monkeyfilter:One more unexploded monkey, hurrah.
heehee, my first tag! duuuuuude
Apologies for waxing editorial at the worst possible time - obsessive compulsive about this language, sometimes. Sorry, kitfisto.
A horrible day - mostly for the Londoners, but for the rest of us too, since senseless killing affects us all and, more close to home, we didn't know if we had lost anyone here.
I'll ask the obvious question. Do you think the UK will hang with the US, given the obvious failures? Maybe cut your losses.
Well, that's Thursday over, then...
I never could get the hang of Thursdays.
Just to say, I think on behalf of all London monkeys - thank you, guys. For your concern, your hugs, and your refusal to let this dampen your sense of fun and your belief in, you know, humanity 'n' shit.
It's meant a lot. Really. Thankyou, from the bottom of the cavernous holes we laughingly call our hearts. You're the best.
apparently jb and Dreadnought are getting married on Sunday, if plans have not changed. Very glad for them, and glad Dreadnought's not in London right now.
Hi, just checking in... jb and I are safe and sound in Toronto. (well, safe at least) Don't worry, we'll be sending you guys plenty of pictures!
Godspeed London monkeys. I just want to add my bravo to the first responders for what apears to be an outstanding effort. Bravo, also, to all those galant Londoners sticking to Business As Usual.
Oh, and a great big in-your-face to AQ for hitting us with the attack we most expected for which we were best prepared. For all the horror of it, this was a thoroughly third rate effort on the part of an incompetant enemy.
If any of you reporter types need ins with intel-security people, don't hesitate to email me privately. Can't promise much, though. I'm not in the country and everybody will be pretty darned busy.
THE TERRORISTS WANT OVER 200 COMMENTS
These assholes want attention, above all. They've seen that it has worked before so they follow along doing what someone else has done.
The planning of something like this isn't exactly something that can be done by a hermit so there are the partially involved that haven't snitched these fuckers out.
As long as criminals like this have this kind of partial support, it will be tough to eradicate them.
I'm too exhausted to say anything besides I am going to have the most hopeful dreams ever. God bless and good night.
Al Qaeda: Terrorists or Attention Whores? Story at 11.
So glad to see you all and your loved ones are okay, London monkeys mine. Big group hug across the globe.
Heard about this as we ate dinner last night, and stayed with the story til 2am. Hugs from Australia. I suspect we'll see this sort of thing before too long.
*sigh of relief over seeing the names posting on this thread*
Shocked, horrified, overcome with grief, and worried half to death over you Londoners (and Quid). Deeply thankful to hear that you are all okay. You are all the most wonderful, spirited lot! I love you! Peace be with you all.
/off-topic
I am thrilled that London was chosen for the 2012 games!! Pain in the ass for the next several years--but oh-so worth it when it's all said and done. Congrats!
This works to our advantage says Fox News among other callous, insensitive, crass and downnright stupid comments
"If they had picked France instead of London to hold the Olympics, it would have been the one time we could look forward to where we didn't worry about terrorism. They'd blow up Paris, and who cares?"
/speechless
In all the news-hungry frenzy of last Thursday, I didn't once even think of looking to Fox for coverage.
This is why.
glad to hear monkeys checking in.
I was in New York City that day. There were about 12 notices an hour to report on suspicious activity at Penn Station, and my husband was verbally assaulted by an old man for daring to touch a small plastic bag (containing 2 napkins) that had been left on the seat next to him. Amtrak also placed a warning on every passenger seat on the train.
Fox News tends to make me too angry, so I rarely watch them either. Then again, the mainstream US television press' insistence on *immediately* talking about "this is how this will affect the US" made me mad, too. Lay off it until a more appropriate moment, please! It makes all Americans look awfully self-centered. (and while I am, I'd rather that not be the first thing people know about me ;) )
I was forced to watch it that day at work, and by the end of the day they were declaring the bus was almost definitely the work of a suicide bomber.
I'm quite disappointed over this: 19 years ago
by roryk
so much so, i muffed the link. *sigh*
Oh well, more space on the tube for them's that don't give a fuck.
Yeah, I'm kind of surprised at how few people have been on the Tubes lately. I'd think that they are safer now than ever before. Besides, what happened to all that "going about our lives so the terrorists won't win" jazz? I was hoping it was more than just media hype...
No friends o' mine. Fucking numpties. And all for a non-existent god...(IMO)
I feel sorry for the Muslim population of Leeds now. Some dick heads will have a pop at them, like they all planted the bombs.
Whoever persuaded/brainwashed them into this would be someone akin to David Koresh or Sun Myung Moon. What they believed wasn't Islam, it was a cult. Even their families couldn't believe their sons would do something like that.
The Four Yorkshiremen of the Apocolypse.
*sigh* This whole thing just stinks. I agree with kitfisto, too. After 9/11, the Muslim population up in Michigan got harrassed quite a bit, and they were 1000 miles away from what happened.
Suicide bombers? Luxury! In my day all we 'ad was IRA nail bombs, and we thought ourselves lucky!
Feckin idiots. I laugh in your face.
ICE - In Case of Emergency
Don't know if anyone's posted it to this thread yet, but I think it's a good idea (and not just for Brits).
If anyone here wants to put my number as their "ICE" contact, I'll be able to have a good laugh when you get blowed up.
But I'll actually be really concerned "on the inside".
I'm not going to have an 'ICE' number in my phone. I see it as bowing to terrorists. People can just look at 'home' or 'mum' or whatever like normal. And as my old Nokia is built like a tank, I should imagine it would be the only thing left of me should a Yorkshireman decide to go postal in my vacinity.
Terrorists hate your mobile.
Everyone else just hates quid.
No, the terrorists hate me too.
Quiddy hates your freedom!
And he's not even from Yorkshire, ferchrisakes!
No Freedom Fries for you, al quidnunc.
No, just a cup of Yorkshire tea and a pie dipped in fat.
My workmate informs me that our borough here has just been invaded by something called "krispy kremes". Apparently they take no prisoners.
You're going to get so fat. Then you'll be sorry.
al quidnunc.
He's not with me!
*scrawls quid's mobile number on toilet walls next to graffiti that says "For a Gud Time"*
That, my friend, is a fucking great comic.
The guy at the back with the cigar (Mr Hyde) looks like you, too.
I'm on Vol. II right now! (Thanks for the recommendation, btw.)
Handsome fellow, that Hyde.
If by handsome you mean 'face like a bust bubon', then you're right there!
tee hee
If those idiots with the rucksacks tried that shit in the States and failed, they would have been lynched. I would have helped.
And the League of Extraordinary Gentlemen is, indeed, a fucking great comic.
If by handsome you mean 'face like a bust bubon', then you're right there!HOW DARE YOU?! I'LL EAT YOUR HEAD!!
so . . . one minor injury? That's it? Perpetrated by the Secret Organisation of Clueless Junior Al Queasy Terriers of Europe and the Non-Contiguous Island Nations?
*hands Koko the xanax*
/RAMPAGE
*blanches*
/CARNAGE
*gets the fear / moves to Yorkshire where it's probably safer*
/BONDAGE
oops
Steady on. This could bust the whole thing open, no time for japes, chaps.
"..tried that shit in the States and failed, they would have been lynched."
Yes.. We're well aware of how you Yanks react to dissemblers, cowards and liars.. oh, wait.. you ignore those, don't you? Sorry, got confused.
No, the British have a different way of doing things. Calm, cool, collected.. then put them in the stocks and throw very heavy things at them.
/RAMPAGE
Great game.
This is exactly the time for japes. Terrorists hate your japes!
As soon as I started to take the piss out of them, I felt loads better. Fucking numpties that they are.
There were reports a memo had been circulated to staff to look out for a 6ft 2in black or Asian man with wires sticking out of his top. (BBC) - Yep, that'll do it!
No, with dissemblers, cowards and liars, we just comdemn them to a life in public office.
MonkeyFilter: a 6ft 2in black or Asian man with wires sticking out of his top.
Maybe he's a robot.
Bloody hell, it's the future!
Jet packs can't be far off now!
There were reports a memo had been circulated to staff to look out for a 6ft 2in black or Asian man with wires sticking out of his top. (BBC)
Soooo, they're looking for someone dressed as a SUICIDE BOMBER? What a great idea! Why didn't I think of that!!!
Yep, I'm going home tonight to paint some old bog roll tubes red and tape them round my waist fot tomorrow's commute.
I can maybe grow a bit of beard by then too.
There were reports a memo had been circulated to staff to look out for a 6ft 2in black or Asian man with wires sticking out of his top. (BBC)
Soooo, they're looking for someone dressed as a SUICIDE BOMBER? What a great idea! Why didn't I think of that!!!
Mosque evacuated in east London - possible bomb threat.
mosque threat lifted. move along, nothing to see.
First day of terrorist activity: concern, anger.
Second day of terrorist activity: confusion, puzzlement, some mocking
Third day of terrorist activity: boredom, detatched amusement, nostalgia for those heady days when this was a novelty
Guns of Brixton?
I dunno what these pricks think they're gonna prove, Londoners are the least likely to be swayed by such stuff. They should stick to scaring the Yanks.
Oh, I see we're already doing this. But it seems excessive to down the bloke AND to shoot him five times. But perhaps they though he was holding a detonator.
Well, you've shot him, say, three times - how can another couple of shots hurt?
Skrik, exactly. If they let him live, he could have still set off the bomb. I don't like it, but I agree with it. Too bad they can' interrogate him now, though.
Also, as I said over on MeFi, it's a long way from the barriers to the platform at Stockwell, with pretty good sight lines for a lot of that distance. Since it sounds like they were fairly close behind him, if they just wanted to kill him, and weren't genuinely concerned about the risk that he (or a stray shot) might detonate a bomb, they could have taken him down a long time before he got on a crowded Tube train.
To hell with him. Shoot the fucker. He reneged all rights when he strapped on the bomb.
Firing while they ran in a crowded tube station? I'm pretty sure their training must cover such scenarios. Or maybe they just fancied some point-blank head shots.
I'm assuming they had a pretty cast iron idea this was a bomber, so good on 'em I say. Although the lack of subsequent intelligence is a shame.
I will take back all of the above if it turns out the cops fucked up.
He reneged all rights when he strapped on the bomb
America! FUCK YEAH!
Shoot the fucker, he reneged on his rights!
Amerioh shit sorry Chy I thought you were someone else.
Heh.
Fuck Yeah, though...
The rumor mill is now saying it might have been the boys from Hereford, rather than coppers who pulled this stunt. It does sound like a very aggressive move.
He who dares, Rodders!
No, you don't muck about with a guy wearing a semtex suit. For the safety of the civilians all around, the guy has to be taken out. This is logic. He could have detonated the device at any time. From the (admittedly preliminary) reports, a warning shot was fired, but he still ran. Having lived in London, and used the tube every day, I can visualise how I would feel as a passenger, and to be honest it is still kill the fucker before he can kill us.
By 'aggressive move' I meant aggressively carried out, i.e. no fucking about, not that they should have bought him dinner and flowers before fucking him so royally in the face.
Just to be clear.
Kill kill kill! FUCK YEAH!
He tried to kill us, but someone killed him!
Kill kill kill! FUCK YEAH!
Kill kill kill, so suck on my balls!
Only if you promise to vote for me.
Listen, he jumped the barriers. I fucking hate it when people do that. I'd have shot the cunt.
Perhaps he also made eye contact and read someone's 'Metro' over their shoulder, thus the five to eight shots reported.
YES KILL THEM ALL
KILL KILL KILL
OBEY
Hey sexy momma, wanna kill all humans
To hell with him. Shoot the fucker.
Hi lizard brain! How's that fear thing workin out?
Dear London Police,
Welcome to America! Enjoy your weapons and remember- you can always get a bigger one! Tuesdays are 1/2 off ammo day and everyone who's not white or Irish is always acting suspicious. You may fire when ready!
Oh, shut up, you silly man.
No, let's insult one another MORE!
Twat!
I think someone running from armed police / army onto a tube, despite no doubt being told not to, does a suspicious person make. I also think this guy was already marked, thus the persuit in the first place. A 'known suspect', according to BBC. If he had a bomb, then I don't see shooting him in the face as an overeaction - remember how many people one blast killed and maimed two weeks ago.
You're all a bunch of cunts!
"Hi lizard brain! How's that fear thing workin out?"
Go fuck yourself, terrorist hugger.
See how this works? Shall we dance?
Let's all do it till we can't do it no more.
*cries*
*laughs manically*
*falls over*
/urinates
I am pleased to see that the terrorist depradations have done nothing to undermine Londoner's traditonal sullen mutual hatred. You cockney wankers.
Also, re-read the chapter on the Blitz in Peter Ackroyd's shelfbending 'biography' of London last night. If that didn't stop you magnificent cockney wankers this certainly won't.
Londoners will only actually be nice to each to each other when these fucktards start boming them from wave after wave of heavy bombers. At night.
These events just fuck 'em off cos they can't get home.
I'M GONNA BLOG SO HARD THOSE TERRORISTS WON'T KNOW WHAT HIT THEM. GRRRRRR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
"Not you specifically, good Chy.."
Thanks duder, & right back atcha, big guy. I'm simply a bit cross, since I'm seeing this "wow, overkill" attitude everywhere right now.. I'm not one to side with the Powers That Be by any means, but if I put myself in their shoes in this case.. really I don't think they had much choice. Their own lives could have been at threat, and under such circumstances no human is quite calm. As to how such bombs are detonated.. who knows? Who wants to take a chance? Could be a switch, could be a timer.. who knows? As for the number of shots, they were reasonably limited in this case, since such agents are trained generally to empty their clips into a perp.. which is why we see such overkill as we do in LA & other places in the US.
Basically, I don't hold with the suspicions that the London bombings are conspiracies by MI5, MOSSAD, or others, at least at this point; for me they are real, and the perps have to be stopped by any means possible. Interrogation of a bomb-laden loony is generally not possible, given that they are intent on self immolation. I don't want to see summary execution of terrorists, but I do wish to see coldly efficient shutting down of their plans. This is what should have happened in America, and I'm hoping the Poms will demonstrate how it is supposed to be done while gathering as much info as possible on the cunts that set us up the bomb.
He just got a good old fashined clip round the ear.
*respects kitfisto's magnificent joke*
That was the shittest.
five times
In a firefight, you don't have the luxury of stopping shooting after delivering the particular round that finishes the job. You shoot until you realize that your target is neutralized. Remember, too, that shooting somebody is hella stressful: you're trying to remain cool in the face of your sympathetic nervous response going fuckfuckfuck and giving you tunnel vision, time dilation, dry mouth,etc.
And, yes, the perp certainly could have triggered his toy while disabled. If he can close a simple electric circuit, he can activate his detonator.
Not that I'm the biggest fan of cops, nor do I want to be an apologist for them, but if we're going to put our security in their hands, sometimes we're just going to have to trust their judgement. Sure, the guy would be of more use alive than dead, but in that situation, there was the need for an instant judgement call, and the cops made it, and in our best interests.
Do I agree that cops should go around shooting suspects? No. But these are the experts. They were called upon to make a decision in order to protect the public, which is what they're trained to do, and what they did.
It could turn out that the guy is completely innocent, sure. If that's the case, the shooting would be a big cock-up, but to behave as the guy did in the current climate of jitteriness, he'd have to shoulder a lot of culpability himself.
Any goddam perp try to trigger his toy in my firefight I'll nuetralize his dry mouth. Goddam perp. Gaddam toys. Gotta stop those goddam perps and shit man, they have toys. IT WAS NOT MOSSAD YOU PERPS IT WAS THE PERPS.
...but to behave as the guy did in the current climate of jitteriness, he'd have to shoulder a lot of culpability himself.
Exactly. Running through a London tube station with wiring sticking out of your coat will get you shot, just like pointing a gun at any North American cop.
I've known a few police officers and they always refer to incidents like this as "suicide by police".
Chillax, quid. You'll never get a girlfriend when you're this intense, man.
Or maybe you will. I really don't have the first clue about these things....
I can see that there's not much time for thinking these things through, and it's a bad deal all around. Still, I wish they could have, like, winged him and then sent in a robot to check for a bomb. I can't help wondering what he knew and how much time he could have saved them.
How long before a show like Jackass or Dirty Sanchez gets someone to run through a tube station with a rucksack on? Maybe Ashton Kutcher could punk Scotland Yard, har har.
I feel for the poor tourist who was standing outside Downing Street wearing a backpack and got taken down by police. I hope they gave him a voucher or something.
<tangent>i know two people who got shot for jumping gates/evading fares on subways - one in boston and one in munich. the guyperp in boston's in a wheelchair, the guyperp who did it in munich's dead.</tangent>
When the dee perp all falls
over MBTA walls...
Terrorist have won. They have created a world where this guy might now be shot on sight, what with all the wires and strange attire.
Seriously, I'm burnt out over this dark game of actions and re-actions dragging all us, masses and governments, into paranoia, fear and intolerance. Tired of this tragic play, really.
Relax, Flagpole, there's still cheese.
flashboy is spoiling Harry Potter on his blog, big meanie.
That's what I get for actually looking at other pages.
so much depends
upon
a row ling
spoiler
guised as a
poem
by w c
williams.
triacle: what tourist outside Downing street? I didn't hear about that.
))) to fish tick and goetter!!!
ye
perp ple
P ple
E terse!
and yet it says they followed him from a house that was under surveillance. I wonder why he ran.
Dear Madam,
Yesterday morning, your son refused to stop when commanded to by plain clothes police officers. In response to this crime, the officers concerned pushed him to the ground and shot him five times in the back of the head. We regret that our officers were forced to resort to such an extreme response, but we hope that their action will lodge in your son's memory, and that he will remember to obey officers of the law in the future.
With regards,
I'm in no way suggesting that the guy deserved to be shot dead, but why the hell didn't he stop? When a bunch of cops carrying guns tell you to stop, you stop. Especially when people have been exploding bombs in tube stations, and you're running into a tube station. It's just stupid to challenge cops like that. Really tragic, all the way around.
Well, I think there are a lot of questions that might well be asked. Such as:
Did the deceased speak/understand English? If so did he understand it very well?
What happened to cause the man run and jump the barrier?
Were these undercover police officers calling out to him to stop? If so, when did they call out? Could he by some mischance (traffic noise, for example) not have heard them? Was the dead man deaf or hearing-impaired?
Were the officers branding guns as they ran after him?
Were these undercover officers in mufti/plain clothes? How did witnesses know they were undercover police officers?
Did the police officers not firing their guns protest/object to the actions of the officer who executed the man? If not, why not?
And so on.
*yawns at reactionary Guardian article*
The guy looked suspicous. He ran from the cops. He jumped the turnstile and ran into the subway. From what we know, it sounds to me like the police acted properly. Which means this is sad, but understandable.
What a bizarre response Smo. Seemed like a perfectly proper report.
As a society that thankfully sees few shootings, we quite properly expect the most stringent standards in the use of deadly force. We're not innured to regular police shootings and I'm glad for that. We can understand the immense pressures law enforcement officers are working under without having to pick sides like its a sporting event.
Mine was a reaction to Skrik's post, which suggested that the police acted improperly. I see no evidence for that conclusion. Does that mean I'm picking a side?
As for your link: it's the Guardian. Not surprisingly, the article devoted a lot of space to the question of whether the police overreacted and, annoyingly, precious little to the other four W's. It's FNC-style speculation over substance, only with a leftist agenda.
First off, I applaud the London police for their vigilance and prompt action on these wimpy (but tragic) attempts to rattle the population. That said, I commend and admire the British people for their stoic determination during this petty and pointless attempt to cow them.
I am an American, and within the past five years, I have had to accept that so many of the rights I have long taken for granted are limited. I cannot associate, assemble, or move freely within society any longer, without possible review or justification. It has been a rude awakening, but I am fully prepared to have my person and possessions searched at any time for any (unspecified) reason. If I had been ordered to stop by authorities in the current climate, and I had run, I would expect to be shot, or otherwise detained. It almost seems surreal, given my upbringing.
I don't like it even a little. I don't feel safer, but I am for now complacent. I am waiting to see what the world does with this intractible mess. Randomly frisking people and killing an innocent guy? Unfortunate, yes, but it happens. Will we tolerate this beyond the crisis point? Never.
Sorry, what I just said sounds hoity-toity. Really, Brits are tha BOMB!!
Maybe neither of you us wrong, just coming at it from different angles. It does sound as though the man was throwing out signals of danger to an outside observer. And, it does sound as though the police overeacted out of fear for themsleves and the people in the station.
My guess is that your UK cops are less innured to killing people than many of ours in the US are. My second guess is that the policemen involved could be really distressed over what happened. I may be romaticizing British police based on too many years of watching mysteries on PBS, but my sympathy for those involved is heightened by the fact that the news stories are front page headlines, even here. And the stories seem to be treated with honesty.
I think that, if it had happened here in the US, the tone of the stories would have been very different, and the news that the man wasn't a terrorist would have appeared on page 12 in a one paragraph mention.
Prize what you have, even as ex-pats. I remember when had the same thing, and I don't know if we'll ever get it back.
Oh, please.
"Oh, please" what?
Not every policeman who has to shoot somebody is a drill-hardened SWAT psychopath. It takes a lot of moral force for a normally socialized man to override the taboo against manslaughter. And then to kill a man, only to have it be the wrong man... I pity those policemen.
Heh, Smo, if you thought that was a British leftist agenda then the political discourse on either side of the Atlantic really has diverged. The Guardian's what passes as the soft left/liberalish middle ground. It was one of a whole series of articles that day and of course they mentioned the other four suspects too and the rest of the ongoing investigation.
I'd agree that in this instance the officers appear to acted as best they could, with no small degree of personal courage.
But I'm also glad that this kind of tragedy remains a highly unusual occurence in Britain, such that it will merit a full investigation, maybe even a public inquiry. Until that happens and the facts of the case are clearer of course I'm just speculating and generalising.
"This tragedy has added another victim to the toll of deaths for which the terrorists bear responsibility." -- Ken Livingstone.
Sorry, but Mr Livingstone has his head stuck right up his arse. This was a police killing, and while understandable, it was a mistake. Nothing should be said to hide that fact.
Warning to people in the UK: You may be shot five times in the back of the head if you don't dress according to the weather, if you are scared of men with guns, and/ or if your command of English is not perfect.
Thanks for the heads up, buddy.
The liberals over at Eschaton seem to be frothing at the mouth over the slightest apologies for this killing. I usually agree with most of what is posted there, but in this case I suppose I am a conservative. If you ask me, running around like this fellow on the tube mere days after horrendous bomb attacks is a very stupid thing to do. If the shooting occurred at any other time, I would be up in arms about it. I expect the cops to be a little overzealous after buses and shit get blown up.
It was a stupid mistake by the Pigs but under the circumstances I don't understand exactly what else was to be done, since they believed the guy was carrying a bomb.
I suspect I would feel different if I had darker shade of skin, perhaps.
word, Chyren
It's fucking terrible. I'm sorry it happened. But surely 'stop, armed police' sounds pretty fucking similar in any language?
I'm not condoniong it, I'm just saying - running into a tube, from a watched house, the day after a bungled bomb attack, not stopping...I can't blame the feds, for once.
Let's not forget this wouldn't have happened if some fuckwits hadn'd done what they did...
It's all fucked up.
Maybe they should leave to the fucking SAS, on reflection.
The feds?
- maybe they should leave the observation, tracking and slaughter of terrorists to the SAS - is what I meant.
It is, after all, why we have the nutty, moustachio-ed Scottish hard bastards on the pay-roll,..
Plus, they look fucking good in black.
I just want to apologize for my comment that Brits are the bomb. Poor choice of words. Hope nobody was inadvertently offended. Still love you all.
Brits are dy-no-mite!!
oh, uh ... no ...
Thanks, Koko, but I got several e-mails about my (hopefully encouraging) remark. Didn't think before I typed, as it were.
You have gots to be shittin'.
No, goetter, I got hate meil about that little fuck-up. Should I just shut up now?
Hate mail? From who?
Yeah. Chy an' me'll hold 'em while Koko sics Jimmie fuckin' Walker (where is he today?) on their sorry asses.
chyren: good point. I get it from nobody actionable.
WELL TO HELL WITH THEM
CHyren: MY POINT ESAXTLY
Ah, sweet Chy. You get hate mail only because you cause ripples. I, on the other hand, get almost no mail, which is much more boring. Though, if you'd like to send your hate mail to me, I could practice being a harridan. I've always wanted to be one, even though I think it would take some practice to be effective.
whatever; happy trails.
Um, in path's defense cynn and chy are pretty fuckin' similar to the eye. At least to us hemidemisemidyslexics.
/still waitin' for the Good Times theme to cue
Terrorists love your hate mail!
Well I guess this whole neutralizing perps malarky is more complex than we first imagined. Who knew.
I may drop off a flower or two at Stockwell tomorrow in memory of this poor bastard.
And whoever sent Chy the hate mail needs to loosen up a little. A poor choice of words perhaps, but it was abundandly clear what was meant. This is not the time for real infighting. That's what the terrorists want!
Weezel, why do you hate cynnbad?
If we can't make crude, insensitive jokes about ethnicity, then the terrorists have won.
Durka durka.
I sent the hate mail!
And so did my wife!
Nobody sent me any cunting hatemail you blind bastards.
Anyway, this guy got shot in London. That's some bad shit, but the UK is still a far cry from the sort of shit that goes down in the US.
♫Good Tiiiiiimes!♫
Any time you meet a payment!
♫Good Tiiiiiiiimes!♫
Any time you feeeel free!
♫Not gettin' hassled!♫
Not gettin' hustled!♫
Keepin' your head ♫ above wateeeerrrrr ♫
Makin' a wave when you caaaaaaan ♫
Temporary lay-offs! ♫Good Tiiiiimes
Easy-credit rip-offs! ♫Good Tiiiiiimes
Scratchin' and survivin'! ♫Good Tiiiiimes
Ain't we lucky we gooot 'em! ♫ ♫
♫Good TiiiiiIIiIiIIiiiiiIiiiiiiiiiiiiiimes!♫
Cunting Hatemail, CID, at your service.
Take a lookie at the New Yorker touristy bus gone edgy!
Now, not only will your dark-colored skin get you singled out, but your British accent as well! Welcome to the New World folks! God bless America!
TiiiiiIIiIiIIiiiiiIiiiiiiiiiiiiiimes
Whoa. That's one wicked Blinky Williams wail [WAV] you got there.
Update, if you care. The mail was simply from someone who was a bit edgy and didn't like me to beg9n with. Problem solved.
was never properly identified because a police officer was relieving himself at the very moment he was leaving his home
was unaware he was being followed
was not wearing a heavy padded jacket or belt as reports at the time suggested
never ran from the police
and did not jump the ticket barrier
And was apparently sitting down on the train when shot.
Errrr .... sorry!
wow. One would think disciplinary action at least would be taken. Any word of that?
Man shot in London anti-terrorism raid
Is the shooting-suspected-terrorist-in-the-underground investigation all wrapped up and I missed it? (Possibly again?)
and zimf*guyperp in boston's in a wheelchair, theguyperp who did it in munich's dead.</tangent>