July 06, 2005

• Obviously Bush could give a flying bag of llama droppings about what anyone thinks, especially the people. But what about these other world leaders? A concert is a far cry from a serious revolutionary movement, but I figure it opens discussion. And I have learned a lot more about the corruption of African leaders than I ever knew before, so I suppose awareness is being raised. ...I was surprised I couldn't find this discussion here already. Did I miss it?
• It is great. Whether it will have an effect or not I can hardly say. But I can definitely say that it got a lot of people to think about an issue that had never even crossed their minds. That is rather substantial. I can live with people's decisions. It is when they make them without being informed that I get really annoyed. This informed people. It may influence votes in the future.
• I can't concieve of an effect it could have on the G8 leaders. I think the purpose is to have an effect on everybody else.
• Just out of curiosity... did this thought occur to you while you were high? ;)
• I, for one, have never been more aware of the tragedy of the 20-year feud between Roger Waters and Pink Floyd.
• Here are my thoughts on the Live 8 concerts as it was seen in America. First, for those that don't know, it was broadcast on MTV and VH1. It would have been nice if, during their all day coverage, they could have, you know, played more than one song in a row! Seriously, I had to turn it off because I got so sick and tired of seeing crappy vj's telling me how momentous this was or showing clips from Live Aid. If it is so momentous, why not shut the hell up and let us watch it! At one point they actually cut to the vj's during Pink Floyd! (Did anyone else think it odd though that despite the fact that pink floyd, like every other band only got 15 minutes, and even though they have some pretty long songs, they still played the pre-recorded sound collage intros or outros to songs?) Don't even get me started on all the cut aways to celebrities in the audience. The only thing that showing me Paris Hilton with her mouth open raises the awareness of is how much I hate her. Then they kept saying, "Go to Aolmusic.com" to see video clips. -- But aolmusic.com only works with Internet Explorer! Nice to know that humanitarian causes can totally ignore things like standards and security and force people to use closed source products from a monopoly. Of course to make it worse, who owns Netscape? Who opened the source in the first place? AOL! AOL doesn't even work with the browser they put out or allowed to come into being! Get a brain morans! I think it is safe to say that the thing it really raised is my ire!
• I didn't see it on tv (maybe they had cut away to a vj ;-), but I read some of Mandela's remarks afterwards and thought about what he said re: poverty and freedom.
• I suppose Geldof did have a very strong desire to make a humanitarian statement, but it sounds like the media and whatnot turned it into a chance to sell shit. I doubt most of the bands even cared about Africa except to say that it was a good idea in general. Hell, they're musicians not economic analysts. Kudos to Canada's Prime Minister Paul Martin who refused to meet the Live 8'ers demand for greater donations as a fraction of GDP. He said quite simply that it was not economically feasable for most countries to do it and said that countries that did it to meet and greet the rock stars were likely to pull back donations by the end of the year. That man has some balls, I tell you. And no matter what, Pink Floyd rules.
• Live 8 stars see album sales soar, etc.
• Bush could give a flying bag of llama droppings about what anyone thinks couldn't
• couldn't Colloquialism. Please update your service before further complaint.
• Live 8 stars see album sales soar, etc. I'd like to see the actual sales numbers instead of percentages. If the highest sales figure was 2,800, then no album really "soared" as the article implied. Anyway, I saw some of the concert, but the MTV/VH1 converage annoyed me and I was just waiting for the Pink Floyd show. Poverty in Africa is at least a topic in the new currently, and maybe the Live 8 helped that.
• This post reminds me of a famous scene from the Movie "The Core": Nerdy Scientist: The core of the earth has stopped spinning, and we can't restart it. General: But what if we can?
• Kudos to Canada's Prime Minister Paul Martin who refused to meet the Live 8'ers demand for greater donations as a fraction of GDP. He said quite simply that it was not economically feasable I may be wrong but did he not, some time before, pledge the .7%GDP and only later himself back down, citing economic unfeasability? The man is our former finance minister. You would think that if he makes a pledge, he knows what he's getting into. Seems to me that was the whole reason behind Bono being on his back (renegged promise). I suspect that this has nothing to do with fiscal responsibility and everything to do with his tenuous minority government. Really, that's an even better reason, but he scores no points for honesty, or balls.
• The utopic goal of full debt condoning would be a first step; the next, what to do with the warlords, dictators and despots thriving amid terror in many african countries. And that's something much harder to accomplish, at least in a non-violent way. After some forgettable moments, Green Day and The Who really seemed to be making the crowds jump. And watching the Floyd again was a bit of a letdown: something historic, yes, but quite boring.
• I feel quite ambivalent about the whole thing. There's no doubt that the burden of debt on some African countries is utterly monstrous, and that agricultural tariffs which protect European and American farmers at the expense of African ones are atrocious. But there's a terrible vagueness about it all; the project seems to be run by extroverts who can't bear to spend five minutes thinking before they start on the shouting. I mean, 'Africa'? So who is this for? Libya? Uganda? Ethiopia? Zimbabwe? Ghana? Somalia? Liberia? Egypt? Nigeria? You would think that people who really care about Africa would show more sign of realising that it isn't an undifferentiated mass of starving black people. When concerns, which seem legitimate to me, about the usefulness of giving aid to corrupt governments, are raised, the answer seems to be 'never mind whether it works, just fucking do it'. The original 'Band-Aid' name implied a short-term response to a crisis; now the premise seems to be permanent aid as a way of life. There are assumptions underlying this about the permanent inferiority of Africans and the right and ability of the West to dictate their destiny, which I am not entirely comfortable about (not accusing anyone of actual racism). It might be that I am allowing my views to be influenced by a reaction against rich and privileged rock stars sermonising about poverty. Anyway, I should welcome counter-arguments.
• Oh, and another thing - Monkeyfilter: a flying bag of llama droppings
• Well, during the concert, the big idea was that they didn't want to raise money, they wanted to raise awareness. Now, that all sounded pretty wishy-washy to me. Pretty lame. Yeah, man, let's go raise AWARENESS! But, I have to admit, in the days following; suddenly, they've got stories on third world poverty on current affairs shows. Suddenly, they're talking with economists and activists on talk-back radio. Suddenly, people on ask.metafilter are asking about the possibility of outsourcing in Africa. Suddenly, Tony Blair is being forced, by popular demand, to make some uncomfortable promises. Even Bush is being forced to at least present his policy and ideas on the issue. People on the street suddently know what "G8" means. Suddenly, threads like this are appearing on Monkeyfilter. People are discussing the issue. On that front, the concert seems to have actually worked. Lets see how long it lasts.
• My concern is that Live8 might have overshadowed the 'real' political pressure put on by the Make Poverty History campaign (I think it's called 'one' in the US? - different names but white wristbands everywhere) The news here in the UK has suggested that it wasn't as big a deal elsewhere in the world as here, but we brits haven't been able to escape the MPH people- and rightly so. The political pressure through them was very high; high enough for Blair to wear a wristband when he was electioneering. If Live8 has raised awareness elsewhere in the world, and as such increased pressure on the G8 members, then this is a good thing. My fear is that now Geldof has (as far as the media is concerned) taken over the campaign, what was almost a political uprising is now less impactful- the G8 could easily write off all those who took part as just being people who wanted to go see Bono play with McCartney.
• A lot of people probably thought: The ONE adverts were interesting. The buildup to the event was good. It was an okay concert. So...what else is on? click
• Wow, I sense a lot of cynicism here... I was at the Canadian Live 8 concert, and it was a great show. In the 15-minute gaps between acts (which were themselves only 15 minutes) the video screens showed uninterrupted live links to the other concerts (including Pink Floyd) and lots and lots of informational videos about the situation in Africa, some of which were VERY moving. I got the sense that most of the people at the show were as much interested in the message as the music. Mandela's speech, in particular, kept the crowd's interest...and when the on-stage acts said their obligatory piece about pressuring Paul Martin to meet the 0.7% GDP goal, they were met with cheers of approval. Oh..and Neil Young still rocks!
• DUUUUUUUUUUUUUDE..! You were there, dude? Me too, man, me too! Friggin' AWESOME, man! Bruce, man! Gordon, man! And NEIL! FRIGGIN' NEIL! Singin' Oh Canada with Steve Tyler, man! Friggin' AWESOME! /still high from second-hand smoke during Deep Purple set
• ...smooooooooooke on the waaaaaaaaatah, fireinthesky...
• Uh...yeah...*second* hand smoke...that's the ticket! Actually I was very impressed with Deep Purple, Jet, and Motley Crue...none of whom I'd ever seen before. Missed both Cockburn and Bachman 'cause I was in the beer tent.
• Tent? They had a tent? I just saw an open field. Not even a picnic table. Man, that woulda changed EVERYTHING. But Bruce, man, Bruce was AWESOME. Dude got skilz, man. And Randy was awesome too, man. Celine, not so much. Such a poser, man. I mean, it's Africa, man, how can someone not care about Africa, man? She should know all about starvation... Overall, though, had a great time. Even if the fifteen-minutes-on, fifteen-minutes-off meant that there wasn't any momentum building up, and even though Dan and Tom were just making stuff up as they went along and it showed, it was a great time. Like everyone's greatest hits sampler live. But dude -- Bruce, man! You missed BRUCE? Duuuuude!
• Even though Bruce is no Neil, he's still Bruce! Dude!
• It won't. Same planet, different worlds. If it has significant effect, I will dance in Trafalgar Square wearing a thong while waving a lit firecracker and holding a sign that says "Call me Mommy". But one of you guys has to cover the expenses and provide security.
• Are you my mummy?
• For that comment, tensor -- GO TO YOUR ROOM! And take off that silly gas mask!
• "You would think that people who really care about Africa would show more sign of realising that it isn't an undifferentiated mass of starving black people."
• Bush could give a flying bag of llama droppings about what anyone thinks couldn't ... couldn't Colloquialism. Please update your service before further complaint. Couldn't. They're both colloquialisms, but the one with "couldn't" in it is the proper way to express the intended notion, despite the unfortunate hordes of could-sayers. In any case, he probably couldn't because he is not in possession of such an item. Posted because I do give a flying bag of llama droppings.
• I think Weezel was speaking ironically. Wolof, I think, was referring to the contemporary trend of saying things like "I could care less" where people of my age would typically say "I couldn't care less", the youthful version also, I think, being ironic. But the value of a bag of llama droppings being what it is, the implication is much the same whether he would or he wouldn't - isn't it? If someone would like to explain what I mean, I shall read it with interest.
• My interpretation is that you see what some would call the erosion of the English language as merely inevitable evolution, and furthermore you lack respect for the value of llama droppings, and flying ones at that.
• I think it's a matter of ellipsis. When you say "I couldn't give a BOLD", I hear "I couldn't give even a measly little BOLD, far less something of actual value." I then think "wow, you must really not think it has much value!" With "I could give a BOLD", it seems like the ellipsed portion is "but I won't, so there, nyah nyah!" Fine, keep your BOLD if you like it so much. My bushelful of monkey poo is just as good. Or, maybe the reading is "Yeah, I suppose I could give a BOLD for that, but you're getting a bargain, kid." Wow, a whole bag! Of Llama droppings! I'll be rich! The girls will be all up ons! So you see, "couldn't" makes rhetorical sense in context, while "could" produces jarring, meaningless garbage.
• What tensor said.
• while "could" produces jarring, meaningless garbage. The way people speak is fucked up! More surprises later, petals!
• Steven Pinker agrees with me (The Language Instinct, page 377.) What does Weezel say? He could probably care less.
• Late to the thread, but I read this today, and it discussed the "don't just throw money at the problem" objection in concrete terms and examples, for a change. Actually, rather more critical than that. Something to think about.
• What Wolof said; what languagehat teaches.
• What the philosopher Yu said; Om!
• Wow, look what happens when you don't check back to your thread for a day or two. Honestly, I agree with the "couldn't" crowd. It bothers me when people say "I could care less" when talking about how much they don't care about something. To me that says "I may not care much, but I still care enough that it is possible for me to reduce my overall amount of caring. Therefore, I do care." I mostly wasn't paying attention. Even though I'm kind of a language geek, I'm still a product of my lazy generation. And language has indeed taken a turn for the worse. On the other hand, all these homies be jive-talkin' so much, I-sa gonna hafta get all mideavel on yo boo-tay. Word.
• And I should admit that part of the reason I brought it up is because I went to the London concert. Elton John. Annie Lennox. U2. Paul McCartney. The Who, displaying the subtle and sublime skill of Grand Masters of their craft. And Pink Floyd, an experiance for which I have no words. No. Words.
• Well I forgive your abject recantation, Weezy - but when Steve hears about it I think he's going to feel distinctly ticked off.
• Yeah, well, whatta gonna do?
• Aah, Weezel, you bastard. At one point in Barrie, Tom Green tried revving up the crowd by saying something along the lines that we are all part of the biggest party in the world right now, and that there was no better place in it than Barrie, Ontario. It totally fell flat, seeing as how we had the feed in from London, and it was pretty clear that they were having a far better time where you were. *shakes fist* There was a problem in that we didn't have all that much international feed during the set-changes. A fair bit of London, some Philly, and nothing else (aside from Mandela). At one point, we got the Who, but there was no sound for a minute and a half. Nearly started a small riot. And we were getting antsy when we realized that the Floyd was going on without us. We got it later -- I presume on tape delay, as it would have been close to three in the morning London time -- but not having it live sorta defeated the whole point. So yeah. On the whole, it seems like you had a better show -- if we didn't have Neil. NEIL, man, NEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEIL!
• Vince Neil? I didn't realize you were such a fan of the Crue, Capt.!
• Oh, sure, man. *raises Horns of Satan, bangs head*
• If anyone is interested in seeing the performances, Waxy posted this link recently with pretty good quality quicktime movies of them.