June 24, 2005

• None of the above.
• Reagan engineering the downfall of Communism? Not too long ago, I heard that was the Pope. So how many people single-handedly brought down the Reds?
• I was up late one evening watching Iron Chef, and happened to switch the channel to avoid the mind-numbing adverts. Suddenly, Matt Lauer is on the screen squealing about "...the greatest American!" Needless to say, I turned the boob tube off then and there. I don't see how this trivial show will impact the world in any tangible way.
• I still can't believe that Cletus Federline didn't make the top five. It's rigged, I tell you, rigged!
• I saw Lauer on Jon Stewart talking about this... came across as a jerk, Stewart couldn't take the show seriously, and, either could Lauer once Stewart got started. a ratings shill... I think I'll avoid it. American Idol for dead people...
• Why no mention of Ralph Hinkley? Poor William Katt, never getting the recognition that he so poorly deserves. *wanders off humming "Believe it or Not"*
• But are we going to split the vote? I went for MLK. Washington was a good man, but a rebel, same with Franklin. I've always had a soft spot for Lincoln, but don't know how much that is due to the real martyrising his memory has, so I went with the person I knew better for his actions in life than for his death. Also, it's interesting that MLK did all that he did not from a position of power, but just as a very talented minister. Of course, he didn't do any of it alone - really if he won it should be for all the people in the civil rights movement. But he was still pretty impressive.
• My vote is for Ben Franklin. He's the one nominee who reflects not a time period or an issue, but a personality, a way of life, a culture. Reagan was all about the Cold War. MLK was all about civil rights. Abe was all about keeping the union together. Washington was all about the revolution. But now Franklin -- here was a man who was into technology and foreign travels and the media and politics and individuality and liberty and debauchery. And he accomplished many great important things in all of these realms. His very American interests have stood the test of time. There's a little bit of Franklin in everything that holds our interest today.
• Thinking about it a little more ... Franklin was also kind of the Yoda of his day. Benedict Arnold was Vader. King George was the Emperor. Washington was Obi-Wan. Abe Lincoln was Mace Windu. And MLK was Qui-Gon Jinn? (OK. I dunno about that one.) So you GOTTA vote for Yoda!
• So lovely that a media outlet supposedly about education feels the need to brown nose to a political constituency.
• I voted for Franklin. The others are mostly considered great because they've been painted that way by history, or because they are the figurehead for a movement. Franklin was unique and I admire him for his personal accomplishments. He was a true Rennaisance man, and exemplifies the best of what I personally consider a "True American". Reagan? ... puhleaze ... Never have a man's accomplishments been subject to more spin. Seriously, try to name one.
• Why not any of these: Peter Jennings, Jim Carrey, Dave Thomas, Eugene Levy, John Candy, Dan Akroyd, Rich Little, Martin Short, Leslie Nielsen, Michael Meyers, William Shatner? Oh, never mind.
• Luckily, Tom Cruise made the list, I was starting to think that no one was going to recognize his life long battle against the Body Thetans. *phew*
• I'm in agreement that it's a ratings shill, but if it helps generate some discussion of American history it can't be all bad. My vote would be with Henry David Thoreau or maybe Mark Twain. Oh, who am I kidding, I'm all about Evel Knievel.
• Franklin.
• Interesting feedback re who voted for whom: I voted for Franklin too before I posted this thread. Great Monkeyminds think alike. . . Says a lot for the choices offered . . .
• Muhammad Ali. Or Carl Sagan.
• From the choices still available, I went for Benjamin. After all, he was the only American president who was never president of America (courtesy of Firesign Theater). Besides, I have been told I resemble Ben Franklin-"The Dry Look"-whatever that's worth.
• Richard Feynman (also, how come Einstein is on there?)
• I think this kind of thing is shit and doesn't deserve an FPP.
• I think this kind of thing is shit and doesn't deserve an FPP. Wow, what a nuanced, well-deliberated post. Thank you for contributing to the fun and supportive environment that is Monkeyfilter.
• I'll second Richard Feynman, and let's not forget Freeman Dyson. . .
• I'm surprised that FDR didn't make the list.
• Tatanka Iyotaka. Discussion aside, I think the show is a farce. Oh damn, he wasn't a true "American" now was he. Just one of those savages that should have been swept under the rug long before he actually was...
• I think the post is fine; I think this kind of thing is shit and doesn't deserve a well-publicized poll and television program. These five names should not be spoken together unless somebody is singing the 'one of these things is not like the others, one of these things just doesn't belong' song.
• Who else but Hefner? : ) But it's all useless; I can see who's gonna win: W. G. Bush. Impossible? Ah, weirder things have happened lately. And he's got that elections thing all figured out...
• I'll go along with Stan the Bat on the 'one of these things is not like the others, one of these things doesn't belong' song. Brief diversion: awhile back FOX news had some program about the something/something anniversary of that person at their 'presidential library'. It was supposed to be a big to-do because they expected so many thousands of 'muricans to be flocking there on the anniversary date. So they ran live coverage all day there with on the hour reports. Only a kindergarten school tour showed up . . . I agree about 'The History Channel' is a farce thing too, they should just call it 'The WWII channel' just as they should call 'The Wings Channel' 'The Weapons Contractor promotional video channel'.
• Thomas Paine anyone?
• Hmmmmmmmmmm, Interesting . . . . I just voted twice for Franklin. Anyone else game? Not that I would encourage that kind of thing, because that wouldn't be honest now would it? And we all know that we're honest here, right?
• *Hilarious*. I just voted three times for MLK, and then got a message telling me I'd reached my "three-vote limit for this week". Ah, elections in America...
• I nominate Hypnotoad. All hail the Hypnotoad.
• RICHARD BUCKMINSTER FULLER!
• King George was the Emperor... posted by Possum Hello? I don't think so! Just honest ol' Farmer George, doing a pretty good job until those unruly colonists rebelled and refused to pay any taxes - they hadn't had to pay taxes before, but demanded a whole bunch of government spending on the military to protect them from the French. /half joking, but don't dis my king :)
• What???? No Roky Erickson????!!!!
• pieisexactlythree wins!!
• Wesley Willis is the greatest american! Wesley Willis is the greatest american! Wesley Willis is the greatest american! Wesley Willis is the greatest american! Rock over london, rock over chicago! Monkeyfilter! It puts the lotion in the basket!
• Reagan engineering the downfall of Communism? Not too long ago, I heard that was the Pope. So how many people single-handedly brought down the Reds? ---------------------------------------------- I did it all by myself, and now I gotta have this pompous, blowhard B-grade actor taking credit for my hard work . . .
• waraw by a nose! Er... what else is wrong here... Brett Favre, but not Johnny Unitas? Audie Murphy, but not James Dean? Whatabout classical music -- Copland, Bernstein...? Nevermind that they put a few folks on there who actually merit the exposure (Cesar Chavez, Nikolai Tesla...)
• Madonna? Michael Jackson, Hugh Heffner? Who on earth chooses these people? (If Joseph Smith had made the top 25, I would seriously have considered moving to Canada.)
• I watched a bit of this show before I got the overwhelming urge to pull an Elvis and shoot the tv. (I didn't. I can't afford a new tv. And I don't own a gun.) The one good thing about it was that Lauer was openly mocking the public for their dumb choices. Of the 100 chosen, there are no artists and no philosophers. Make mine Franklin. Didn't the BBC do this listing first? Who were the top 5 UK guys?
• Washington was a good man, but a rebel, same with Franklin What's wrong with a rebel?
• OK, this is driving me crazy and I'm in a sharing mood. There was an uncelebrated american plant biologist (agriculturist) who died within the last few years and his work with crop yields has been credited with saving at least millions of lives worldwide. Googlefu, dendrites, and cousin Loch fail me: HELP!
• Vapidave, are you thinking Norman Borlaug? Good shout. The BBC wasn't much better - Churchill won for much the same reasons I suspect Reagan will win this version. The rest of the top ten went: 1 Winston Churchill 2 Isambard Kingdom Brunel 3 Diana Princess of Wales 4 Charles Darwin 5 William Shakespeare 6 Isaac Newton 7 Queen Elizabeth I 8 John Lennon 9 Horatio Nelson 10 Oliver Cromwell I think we can all agree that Diana is a far greater human being than William Shakespeare or Isaac Newton. A lot of the people who spring to mind as my favourite Americans spent most their early careers elsewhere, like Tom Paine. Not sure if they count.
• Phew, Big Thanks Abiezer_Coppe, the wiki (amongst others) says: "Norman Ernest Borlaug (born 25 March 1914) is an American agricultural scientist, humanitarian, and the father of the Green Revolution. He introduced new wheat varieties and agricultural production techniques to Mexico, Pakistan, and India in the mid-20th century. The resulting multiplications in food production have saved over a billion people from starvation (emphasis mine) and greatly improved the food security of those nations. I nominate him. Thanks Again Abiezer_Coppe
• >The BBC wasn't much better - Yeah, but at least Lennon is a ridiculous entry that you could feel good about...
• Lady Di by a whisker.
• Reagan engineering the downfall of Communism? Not too long ago, I heard that was the Pope. So how many people single-handedly brought down the Reds? Mikhail Gorbachev is the greates American! Incidentally, I'm getting more than a little annoyed by American academics and commentators with half-baked theories about how it was some American, or at least a westerner, who brought about the end of Russian communism. I mean, call me crazy, but there was an awful lot of stuff happening in the Soviet Union at that time. Furthermore, if Reagan was so very clever in formulating American policies such that they would bring down the USSR, then how come the collapse of the USSR caught the Americans completely by surprise?
• I may not know who the greatest American is, but I'm certain it's not the maker of a Web site that tells me I have to "upgrade" to Internet Explorer.
• I am totally there with you Dreadnought, I was an adult in 'Raygun's 'Murica' and when communism fell, everyone here knew Gorby was the reason, not a senile, burned out chump hack movie actor.
• For the record, americans back in the day thought Reagan and his bunch were paranoid old coots who were very likely to get us all killed with their constant, asinine saber ratteling. They're lucky they had Gorby to deal with instead of Putin now (former head of East German KGB) otherwise, well I guess we'll never know.
• The Canadian version ended with this list -

  1 Tommy Douglas 2 Terry Fox 3 Pierre Elliott Trudeau 4 Sir Frederick Banting 5 David Suzuki 6 Lester B. Pearson 7 Don Cherry 8 Sir John A. Macdonald 9 Alexander Graham Bell 10 Wayne Gretzky

  We managed 3 celebrities out of 10 (Suzuki is NOT known for his science - though he is a good science populariser and envionmental advocate). The interesting part is that they polled on different categories - genius, leadership, legacy, and passion and then asked which was most important. If I were going to pick the greatest Briton, I would pick...maybe Michael Young, but he's too recent, maybe Gerald Winstanley, but too obscure - I know, I nominate Elizabeth Bank of Longton, who supported her "five poore small fatherless children", subsisting with "the industry of herselfe for the space of two yeares last past since her late husb did decease", before she finally had to ask for help before her family did "starve for want of foode." And everyone else like her, the engines of prosperity, but so often not receiving it.
• Actually, Putin wasn't the head of the East German KGB. He was in the KGB in East Germany, but he held a relatively minor possition.
• jb - Gerrard Winstanley! We agree on the greatest Briton! We Diggers all!
• You left out Brian Blessed.
• Interesting that Alexander Graham Bell was on both the Greatest American and Greatest Canadian lists. He may also have been on the Greatest Briton list, being a Scot.
• He was
• I expect Einstein is also on the Greatest Swiss list - they have him on their coins. Probably German and Israeli lists, too. This Communism business - surely we all know that Soviet Communism collapsed, not through the actions of any individual, but because of the accumulated crisis arising from the inherent contradictions within the system... er... Anyway. I agree with the view expressed earlier that if you want to epitomise the USA, it's hard to beat Franklin - his personality and interests seem to me to prefigure those of the nation with remarkable accuracy. A bit depressing to pick someone so far back, though - as though no-one could ever again match the heroic early days. I think even Ronald Reagan would have found the idea of himself as the greatest American ludicrous.
• Actually, I think the older the candidate, the more sure you can be of them - it's largely about legacy. It's not that there haven't been great people since, but 200 years or more will give us a much better idea of HOW great. A_C - yup, Winstanley was great - he was just so idealistic. The world needs more dreamers like him. And more people digging up hillsides :)
• Mother Jones
• Hey - I might just have to vote for Mother Jones because she grew up in Toronto. Everyone knows that everyone from Toronto is brilliant. (except for all those people who picked on me at school.)
• Damn. I wasted my vote.
• Ach, no politician is worth consideration as the greatest American. So I'd opt if these are the only choices, for Martin Luther King. Ideally, however, I'd scrap their silly list and vote for a poet -- probably Walt Whitman.
• "no politician is worth consideration as the greatest American." What him said.
• bernockle - She was born in Ireland, raised in Toronto, but was famous for what she did in the States. Like Bell, we can all claim her.
• Alright. Then I am back to supporting Mother Jones. Or at least someone like her. It would seem that standing up and confronting the injustices of society at tremendous personal risk with little interest in personal gain would be the qualities that might make someone the "greatest" of any society. MLK fits this description. I don't think that any of the others do, though.
• For the brief moment the tube was on last night, I saw that this silly show was airing their final brodcast to announce the "winner." The hell I would watch that dribble! Anyway, just now clicked the link. The buffoons have spoken, Reagan is the Greatest American! *drops to knees O beautiful for patriot dream That sees beyond the years Thine alabaster cities gleam Undimmed by human tears! America! America! God shed his grace on thee Till nobler men keep once again Thy whiter jubilee!
• Incidentally, I'm getting more than a little annoyed by American academics and commentators with half-baked theories about how it was some American, or at least a westerner, who brought about the end of Russian communism. I mean, call me crazy, but there was an awful lot of stuff happening in the Soviet Union at that time. Furthermore, if Reagan was so very clever in formulating American policies such that they would bring down the USSR, then how come the collapse of the USSR caught the Americans completely by surprise? That depends on whether or not this is true. That being said, Reagan is an asinine choice for greatest American. I suspect some sort of voting hijinks.
• It caught them by surprise because they have the CIA, the primary function of which institution seems to be to be caught by surprise. The Shah being overthrown in Iran? Caught by serprise. Etc.
• rocket88 - maybe it's because most of the non-sentimental, non-conservative population (and, probably, better educated) think that these sorts of polls are pretty stupid and see no reason to vote. Plus, the link you provided seems to think to was the Discovery Channel, not History Channel. And the most annoying thing was that it required more time to load than I had patience for today (- didn't check it out when you first posted because the voting seems unimportant.) Really, will it mean that 100 years from now some historian will report that Reagan was awarded this honor and so he really was just be the greatest American ever? I don't think so. But, I bet Ronnie would have hated the picture they chose to use - he looks pretty Alsheimered.