June 24, 2005

• Dont buy an american car, it'll rattle apart, natch!
• My husband and I just bought a Scion XB - it is the most fabulous car for commuting! We drove cross-counry in it from South Carolina to Seattle, WA and were averaging 33 mpg (the sticker says about that). It is easy to drive, and underneath it's really a Toyota so you have to put a bullet through the engine to kill it! Start a coversation with your local dealer about a month before you want to buy it. We put a deposit down and got the car with the features we wanted in less than a month. The dealers are really hot to sell these. Good luck!
• Did your spreadsheet take into account how much money you lose the moment you drive a new car off the lot? Did it take into account how much it is expected to be worth when you have it paid off? (Or 4-5 years from now, if you are paying cash?) Taking those factors into account, I think you'd be better off getting a off-lease low mileage Civic or Corolla. Less money left on the showroom floor and more equity when you are finished. But then you didn't ask for those options -sorry.
• Scion or Kia, according to my (mechanic) dad. He hates Ford, and he sees quite a lot of Hyundais.
• I would count out all of the models without cruise control. It will save you when you're tired and want to keep from swinging back and forth between too slow/too fast -- and thus gaining the attention of a cop. It's also great for your gas mileage.
• mecurious: I forgot to mention that a being a hatchback/station wagon is a requirement. I had both Civic and Corolla in my spreadsheet, but they took a hit for not having hatchbacks. Smo: Interesting what you say about Kia vs. Hyundai; most of the stuff I read tends to paint the picture that the Hyundais are more reliable than Kias. Since Hyundai has bought out Kia, I suspect they may become indistinguishable; that Kia will be to Hyundai as Dodge is to Chrysler. The Scion xA is the leading candidate. The more I think about it, though, the more cruise control is a need-to-have rather than want-to-have. It seems that, at least in my area, an xA with an auto and cruise is really rare unless it is far more loaded than I'm looking for. I probably will try to get a Scion first, but if I can't get it equipped the way I like, I will walk. By the way, my current car is an Aspire: A car with a Ford nameplate, made by Kia, based on a Mazda platform, with a Mitsubishi engine. You would think it would be nothing but trouble. But I've had it 10 years as a daily commuter and very, very, VERY few problems. I also have an Escort (my son's) and a Taurus (my wife's). The Escort is as old as the Aspire, and both are still running well. The Taurus is perhaps a little too new to pass judgment just yet. I have the same impression of Ford that most other people do: subpar reliability, etc., yet in my case my Fords have done amazingly well. My feelings about Korean cars are this: That they try, but they are just plain sub-par relative to a good Japanese car. My personal experience with my Kia-Ford Aspire differs with this in terms of reliability, but the fit, finish and quality of the car leave a lot to be desired. Part of my leaning toward Korean cars though, is that many recent reviews say they have really turned things around and caught up to the Japanese very recently. And you pay almost nothing for a Korean car. Maybe it's too good to be true, but I'll give the Elantra a good hard look before dismissing it. Thanks for all the comments so far.
• On Posting: meredithea, I completely and utterly agree with you. My Aspire does not have cruise and it drives me nutz.
• Wow - are you sure the Corolla/Civic doesn't come in a hatchback? Over here they are both much more common in hatchback form... Obviously, I'm unsure about the happenings in the US market, but here they're about to release an "all-new" Ford Focus. If that's about to hit in the US then it might be worth waiting for. I don't see any Mazda's on your list -- what ruled them out? On preview, I apologise if this looks overly interegatory -- it's not meant that way at all :)
• My father is in the quality-control biz and according to him, Ford is the only American company that has even tried to compete with the Japanese in terms of off-the-line quality standards. Can't comment on the other asian makes, though.
• coriolisdave- The American market puts all their weight behind the SUVs, at least for the moment. So the selection among compacts is limited. The Civic *does* come in a hatchback in the U.S., but only as a sport model which has a manual shift. I have a stick shift right now, but my wife doesn't drive a stick and does not want to learn, and she may have to drive the new car occasionally. The Corolla only comes in a four-door sedan version in the U.S. There are two station wagon variants built on the platform that are sold here: The Toyota Matrix and the Pontiac Vibe. Currently, Pontiac is offering much better deals than Toyota, so the "Corolla" on my list is actually sold by Pontiac. As for Mazdas, their American slogan is "Zoom Zoom!" For comparably sized cars, Mazdas tend to have more power and worse fuel economy. Additionally, they have successfully marketed their cars as an upscale sporty brand in the U.S., so they cost more. Compared with the Suzuki Aerio, for instance, it has slightly more power (but at much higher rpm's) and costs over 10% more (almost $2000). They were high in my desireability (a parameter that is difficult to quantify), but on more quantifiable scales, didn't do well at all. I guess that means I think they're overpriced for what you get.
• Ahh, commuting. Unfortunately it is something I am too familiar with, driving 74 miles each way to work 3 days a week (was 5!). Did you look at a late model VW Jetta TDI or Passat TDI? I drive a Jetta TDI and get 52-55mpg on two-lane highways. If I could afford it I'd get the Passat, because the little Jetta tends to beat you up a little. My last car was a Camry, which was super comfortable, easy to drive. Made for a mellow commute. Unfortunately, it's heavy, got about 30mpg in the summer, 25 in winter.
• I drive a VW Golf TDI -- absolutely fantastic mileage. Highly recommended -- how can you go wrong with a car that gets 1000 to 1200 km on a tank? I only have to fill up once a month. A friend of mine just bought one of those Smart cars for commuting, so he has me beat -- better than 3 L per 100 km -- but I guess those aren't an option in the States yet.
• I drive a VW Golf TDI -- absolutely fantastic mileage. Highly recommended -- how can you go wrong with a car that gets 1000 to 1200 km on a tank? I only have to fill up once a month. A friend of mine just bought one of those Smart cars for commuting, so he has me beat -- better than 3 L per 100 km -- but I guess those aren't an option in the States yet.
• sorry about the double post . . . my browser is acting all freaky right now.
• Loooooooooove my Focus. '02 Focus Wagon. Her name is Romy. She's surprisingly fun to drive -- she's got a fair bit of pep, and the brakes are incredibly responsive. A bit sluggish accelerating uphill, but oh well. Mileage is great. Low-to-no maintenance, no mechanical problems at all. Only the factory tires are crap, especially in snow. Once those have been replaced, in-snow handling improves remarkably. I like the older Focii better in terms of styling, though. Had a bit more zip. Second car, and my second Ford. First was a '90 Tempo, Lola, who refused to die. True, she started drinking a litre of oil a week once she turned 14, but c'mon -- she was 14, and over a quarter-million clicks. A lot of people don't have good things to say about Ford performance or quality, but that hasn't been my experience at all.
• Plus the Golf TDI is an amazing car to drive -- lots of power, nice and zippy. I couldn't believe the difference in the new deisels -- my last car was an '82 Mercedes 300D. It was like driving a brick. It didn't so much accelerate so much as it slowly accumulated momentum. Plus, unlike the MB, the Golf actually starts in the winter without plugging it in! Quite a revalation with -40C winter weather in Ottawa. The first time I took the Golf out I found myself at 150 kph without even realising how fast I was going . . .
• Just a word about the Ford Focus (and my favorite previous ride, a Ford Contour (real name Mondeo in Europe). The Ford Focus is actually a Ford of Europe car, designed for Europe, built in Germany (don't know about 'murican Foci) and therefore, in my opinion, more of a 'german' car than an american in it's feel and performance. Also look at it's performance in the World Rally Championship! I had a Ford Contour/Mondeo for a few years until I had to sell it (financial problems) and it was, and still is my favorite car I've ever owned. I drove from Seattle to Roswell, NM and back and enjoyed every minute of it. I figure you can get them used for about $4,000 or so. The car will do hi-speed commutes all day long (95mph through Utah on a twin-cam 4cylinder) and get absolutly amazing gas mileage for a 4-door (400 miles on a tank of gas). I don't like 'murican cars, but if it's a Ford of Europe, I'll sniff around a bit more.
• I have had my Saturn for 7 years and it has only ever needed one major repair (new clutch a couple months ago) even though it has 130,000 miles on it and has been treated like shit. That is all.
• Warning first - I'm not much of a car guy at all. However, recently drove a friend's new Pontiac Wave. It seemed like a very nice little package for the money, and very similar to the Scion in appearance. In fact, supposedly the Wave and a similar Toyota are both oem'd by a Korean car company that GM bought out a couple years ago. Looking at the xA pictures, it could be the one, but the Wave seemed like much nicer layout and appointments. Good pep for a small car. Awesome headlights and visibility. Only downside is a smallish gas tank. One other thing you probably already looked at, but I always like to consider is accident repair costs. Consumer's (I think) does crash tests where they see how much damage is done in low speed impacts. The last one I saw from a couple years ago Hyundai almost totalled the car, while the Volvo barely got scratched. Something to consider.
• You don't say much about what -kind- of commute (freeway, mountain roads); whether you want AT or MT; whether the road conditions get nasty, or what. If you are not in California then you can get those TDi cars. Mind the VW electrical, uh, quirks (count the number of VWs with at least one tail light out, if you want to get a quick tally). Since I must have AWD I only ever buy Subarus, but the fuel mileage is never exceptional - on the other hand, they look very sexy when they are the only cars moving through snow, ice or torrents of water. From the reliability POV I'd go for the Vibe or Scion.
• I had the precise model of Ford Focus that you're looking at (4 door sedan). I loved it. Unlike most other American cars I've driven, it felt very solid, yet got pretty good gas mileage. I bought it new in 2001, but alas, it was totaled in a wreck about a month ago (stupid woman hit me, having somehow failed to see the BRIGHT YELLOW CAR...) A word of advice, though: buy a used one. The Focus is a great car, but its value will plummet faster than you can pay for it.
• You didnt mention the Toyota Echo, but its close to this price range and supremely reliable. I dont think Toyota has ever made a bad car. I have one and it's slightly dorky but I couldnt be happier with it.
• However, recently drove a friend's new Pontiac Wave. It seemed like a very nice little package for the money, and very similar to the Scion in appearance. In fact, supposedly the Wave and a similar Toyota are both oem'd by a Korean car company that GM bought out a couple years ago. The Wave is the Canadian version of a car sold in the U.S. as the Chevy Aveo and Suzuki Aerio. It is built by Dae Woo in Korea. The Aerio is on my list. You don't say much about what -kind- of commute (freeway, mountain roads); Texas flatlands, suburban streets & freeway. whether you want AT or MT; Actually, I did (AT), but not in the original post. whether the road conditions get nasty, or what. Biggest nasty is probably the heat. I had the precise model of Ford Focus that you're looking at (4 door sedan). Actually, I'm looking a the ZX3, 3-dr hatchback. I loved it... A word of advice, though: buy a used one. The Focus is a great car, but its value will plummet faster than you can pay for it. People keep saying that, but I plan on keeping this car for about 10 years, like the last one. Resale of any 10-year-old econobox is going to be about $1000, so I'm not particularly worried about resale value. I'm looking for driving value: mileage, durability, reliability, comfort, for a reasonable cost. You didnt mention the Toyota Echo, but its close to this price range and supremely reliable. I dont think Toyota has ever made a bad car. I prefer a hatchback and the Scion xA is essentially an Echo hatcback. When you add the cost of options I want to the base price of the Echo, it ends up more expensive than the Scion xA.
• Frankly, I'd like to have more of a track record on Scions before committing to one. (But where's the fun in that?) I know that they are made by Toyota, but they have to be cutting corners somewhere to sell them at the price they are and there is probably a REASON that they didn't market them under the Toyota brand name. Yeah, their styling is cool (aimed at Gen-Y), but I'd like to know how well they age (like that the body doesn't rust off in 5 years or something).
• In my understanding, they are merely reskinned Echos. and I don't worry about rust here in Texas.
• People keep saying that, but I plan on keeping this car for about 10 years Then do not buy a Ford, or else add an extended warranty to your budget, and make sure it covers EVERYTHING for those ten years. (You got my endorsement of the Elantra over on AskMe.)
• From what I've heard, VWs do not age well. Two friends of mine who have had VWs (one Jetta, one Passat), and after about the five year mark they started getting whammed with major repairs. My mom has a Turbo Bug, and it's getting to the age, so we're keeping our fingers crossed. (I, however, owned two '73 Beetles, and the suckers ran and ran. When I moved up North, though, I decided to get a car made of plastic that wouldn't rust. I love my '01 Saturn now, though it was weird to skip two decades of automotive technology.)
• gerund: My Aspire (okay, so it's a Kia) has lasted very well for 115,000 miles and 10 years. My son's Escort has lasted us for 110,000 miles and is still ticking. My wife's Taurus is at 55,000 and humming right along... even the tires look brand new. The Tempo I bought in the 80s lasted over 125,000 miles and was still running when I replaced it. Yeah, Toyota and Honda probably still have them beat, but Fords are not as bad as they used to be. The Focus is a secondary choice for me, but I am not worried about Ford durability any more than any other model.
• One thing to keep in mind about the Kia Rio - it scored very poorly in crash tests. I was going to suggest a Saturn Ion until I saw the hatchback requirement. Ours gets 26 mpg in town, which is not great, but it gets 36-39 on the highway. And it's the smoothest cruising car I have ever owned; GM has taken its knocks lately, but they did really well with that new Delta platform. The interior styling is not for everyone, but we like it. Oh, and this car turns a circle as short as the Toyota Echo. That in itself is a hell of a lot of fun.
• I can tell you from experience that a Mazda3 has good front crash standards. Unfortunately, I had to find this out the hard way, three weeks after I bought it. My advice, buy a used car. New car smell is not worth thousands in depreciation. At the very least, make sure you pay a huge down payment. I am, two months after my accident, still fighting with people to get the information I need to send to the gap insurance company so they can (maybe) pay off the rest of my car loan, and there is no end in sight. Even if I were interested in buying another car, I couldn't do so for at least six more months.
• It's a new car for me. I've owned several used cars, and it really is a crap shoot. Some look very clean and have things like cracked heads hidden inside. Sometimes the faults are latent, and are often due to lack of basic maintenance. If I buy it new, I know it's always been treated right, and that's worth that drive-it-off-the-lot depreciation to me. And the Rio is pretty much off my list already due to unavailability of cruise control. I think I read that there was a similar safety concern with the Hyundai Elantra (late 2004 & early 2005 models), but found that it was due to a software glitch in the airbag processor. Hyundai fixed the software and had a recall campaign to load it on all previous models affected by this issue.
• I drove a '97 Ford Aspire from June '97 until June '04, and it was a great commuter car. I only put about 55k miles on it over that time (for one year, I only had a three block commute, so I walked most of the time). My only complaints about that car: 1. Driving the Sepulveda pass on the 405 from Santa Monica to Burbank and back. I had the 5-speed manual, and sometimes had to downshift into 3rd to keep with the flow of traffic. 2. Aluminum can with bicycle wheels. After commuting in the Land of Assholes and their SUVs (a.k.a L.A) for 6 years, I am thrilled that I drive a car that I feel can provide me with enough protection to survive an accident. Driving in L.A. traffic can be harrowing enough without Mr. Inconsiderate Cellphone User weaving in and out of his lane while gabbing to his buddies about his golf game, or Ms. I Feel The Need To Apply Makeup While Doing 85MPH, or even Mr. I Have To Be In Front Of You, who decides to cram his 18' land yacht Excursion into the 19' gap between your car and the car in front of you without so much as a blinker or a wave of thanks. But I knew that if one of those behemoth SUVs ran into me, there was a real possibility that I could be seriously injured. But the milage made up for it... I would average between 30-35 MPG with my driving style (Speed limit + 10-15 MPH). In June '04, I bought a Subaru Outback Sport in preparation for the move to Colorado. I'm only getting about 23-25 MPG now, but the AWD makes me feel a lot better in the winter.
• jim_t: I feel your pain. Fortunately, my Aspire story is a little happier, as the traffic in Fort Worth is much lighter than in Los Angeles. I know about the trafic, though, I lived there for three years and have traveled there on business. I've been averaging about the same as you for a long time (although it's slightly better because I put bigger tires on the car to improve the ride).