June 20, 2005

• I for one, will never listen to "Devil's Haircut" the same way again.
• Isn't his Dad (or other close relative) a highly ranked member of mind fuc.. err.. scientology? I though he has been a member for a very long time. also, lookit http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Scientologists
• Who?
• What?
• Wait a second, wait a second. Courtney Love is a scientologist? Maybe it is worth taking seriously...
• Is that an e-meter between Beck's guitar and amplifier? Hmm.. after his performance on SNL last week I got this nagging urge to write out a very large check.
• Musician wants to keep private life private, news at 11.
• Devil's Haircut is all about Scientology, man. Didn't you know? I mean there's a reference to... no... wait... what the heck was that song about?
• I would never have pegged Beck for a Scientologist. Nor would I have thought Giovanni Ribisi was one, too. I find this all very disturbing. I have always been curious about Scientology, but the more I have read and researched the more whacked it seems.
• There's lots of people in the entertainment industry who are scientologists. That's always been where they've had the most success (by some arbitrary measurement...you know what I mean). It might say something about entertainers, or it might just be an accident of history relating to the subculture in which LRH was personally influential. It's sort of a guilty pleasure to imagine that it's the first case...but it's more likely the second.
• could he be on his way becoming a Tom Cruise, or *shudder*, a John Travolta Actually I'd rate Travolta over Cruise on this front. Cruise appears to be trying to become the new Wacko-Jacko, while a couple years ago I saw an interview with Travolta and his wife and when she started going on about the wonders of the E-meter, Travolta was smart enough to look uncomfortable and give her the 'let's not sound like freaks, dear' look.
• It might say something about entertainers, or it might just be an accident of history relating to the subculture in which LRH was personally influential. Scientologists go after the rich. There's alot of rich in hollywood. Which leads to a lot of Hollywood being scientologists.
• I suspect that being a celebrity scientologist is not as devastating/demanding as it is to the regular victim.
• You know, maybe there is something to following scientology and being successful - they certainly are confident, and confidence is half the battle. But they wouldn't let me join.
• they certainly are confident, and confidence is half the battle. I thought knowing was half the battle? /GI Joe
• Doesn't surprise me. The Scienos don't treat the celebs the same way they treat the plebs.
• Knowing's the other half of the battle.
• Well, some religion had to come along to appeal to the rich and famous and confirm for them that they are indeed special. Afterall, some of those other religions seem so anti-rich ("It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter heaven." Matthew 24:19 - I think) Scientology and the newest version of Kabbalah are perfect religious vehicles for the pampered and famous as they give them the sense that they have power over their lives and are in control of their own destiny. Hmmm...wait..that actually sounds kind of cool. Well, uh, they're wrong and stupid. There.
• Hey, Chy's back! Hi Chy! On topic, Scientologists! What a bunch of freaks!
• Who's Beck?
• Tom Cruise squirted with water at a movie permiere. Four arrested.
• Interesting topic of discussion, nonetheless, very old news on Beck indeed. I don't know if it is just me, but I find it hard to take any "celebrity" seriously after finding out they are a "scientologist." Being subjected to all of those Ron L. Hubbard Dianetics commericals in the 80's was bad enough. I've been tripping over their damned card tables at the Times Square subway station almost daily. In case you follow any of the links, you can see a few details of the lovely New York MTA Centennial poster here. I weep a tear for Tom...
• Why? Fuck him, he's an idiot.
• I applaud him bawling out those pranksters though. That was a lame prank.
• what is it about scientology that makes them so feared/hated/take less seriously than any other religion?? do people see it as a cult?? what do they do that's so much stranger than other religious groups?? "A weblog maintained by Bibbe's friend, Vaginal Davis, mentioned that Bibbe had delivered Marissa Ribisi (Beck's wife) and her twin brother, Giovanni." or is it that they have weird names like Beck or Vaginal??
• Sorry Chy, that comment was meant to be sarcastic. Forgot the italics. Ah, too bad it was not egg on the face...
• kitfisto, if you read my apology above, please forgive me.
• gonzo: You might find this as a good place to start.
• hi chy! from 2001: Religious differences Two members of Beck 's band have reportedly walked away from the group, complaining that the rocker's ties with Scientology were too much for them. According to the New York Post, drummer Joey Waronker and guitarist Smokey Hormel left the rocker's fold despite a scheduled tour of Europe next month. The musicians said Beck was drawn to the controversial religion by his father, David Campbell, who has been a Scientologist for a decade, and the band's bass player, Justin Meldal-Johnson.
• My best Scientology moment: several years back, I'm at a party with a friend of mine named Doug, who's a largish fellow - 6'4 or 5, well over 280. Scary-looking, too. Anyway, we have a couple drinks, and get to feeling squirelly, so we *fake* an argument - he makes little (but certainly listenable) jibes at me, increasing in volume and nastiness, until I (6 foot, 175) go ballistic on him - basically a string of curses followed by "... and if I hear another. fucking. word out of your hairy ass, I will rip off that big meatloaf head of yours and SHIT DOWN YOUR FUCKING PIEHOLE! Do you got that???" At this point, Doug becomes Mr. Contrite - look, sir, I'm sorry, really, I didn't mean anything by it, please, really, I'm very very sorry, etc. People are friggin *stunned*, I mean, total silence. Doug leaves the room, nearly unable to contain his laughter. Everyone is staring at me, when I deadpan: "Dianetics, page 274: How to handle a big guy."
• gonzo: Or this or this.
• they give them the sense that they have power over their lives and are in control of their own destiny Funny, I thought a total lack of religion gave you that. On topic, when I think of scientologists, I think of looney beliefs that don't get mentioned too much, and MONEYMONEYMONEY. They are all about the money. Also, my father gave me his well-worn copy of dianetics to read when I was a teenager. I thought it best to avoid any philosophy that may have contributed to him being a total fucking assrag, so I didn't read it, and now it turns out that I also avoided a religion that demands their members give all their time and money. Bonus!
• He's got two E-meters and a mi-cro-phone... (Sorry. I's got nuthin'.)
• sorry, sugarmilk, my sarcasm detector was temporarily offline due to being tired and shagged out after being argued at by my wife.
• >Devil's Haircut is all about Scientology, man. I think Loser is the more obvious choice...
• I seriously don't give a shit that Beck is into Scientology. It's a religion founded by a guy who wrote, "I have high hopes of smashing my name into history so violently that it will take a legendary form, even if all the books are destroyed. That goal is the real goal as far as I am concerned." - L. Ron Hubbard in a 1938 letter to his first wife, Polly. That's all these dingleberries ever really want in the end, anyway.
• I got a Xenu haircut in my mind.
• I have high hopes of smashing my name into history so violently that it will take a legendary form What's the L stand for? I think he came as close as possible and yet still failed.
• Not sure what the "L" stands for but I won't bother offering the obvious.
• Did you know Tom Cruise is a scientoligist!!! AND he's dating Nicole Kidman!
• I love Jackie Harvey.
• I thought knowing was half the battle? /GI Joe posted by meredithea at 08:43AM UTC on June 20, 2005 You know, that was echoing in my head, and I almost said it :) Too much afternoon tv.
• It's a little scary to admit how much my personality has been shaped by cartoons.
• Sonny Bono I can deal with, but William fucking Shatner? Okay, let's never mention that goofy "religion" again, please.
• I'd heard somewhere that Hubbard created Scientology as a bet with a colleague(s), to see if a fake religion he created would actually take off in popularity. Anyone else heard this and/or can prove/disprove this? I'm just mildly curious and my internet connection is spotty today, so Googling has been difficult. . .
• Well, some religion had to come along to appeal to the rich and famous and confirm for them that they are indeed special. I thought that was what Calvinism was for.
• Kittenhead- I have heard that too b/c the friend is allegedly Del Close, the late founder of the Improv Olympic theatre in Chicago (an offshoot of Second City) Considering my source is people from Improv Olympic who love telling wacky Del Close anecdotes though, I wasn't sure whether to believe it...
• I always figured Beck was just being ironic with the whole scientology thing. Also, I was walking through the mission district a couple of days ago and they had card tables set up selling Dianetics and giving e-meter readings right out on the street.
• Hail Batman!
• doesnt he have a song called 'e-pro" or something? I dont know what that means, but they seem to like the "e-" prefix. And "doing it ironically" would be even stupider than actually be a scientologist. "Reality Bites" was a long time ago.
• The story of the Hubbard bet was that it was supposedly made with Heinlein or Lester Del Ray who were both working for crazy-ass white supremacist John W. Campbell Jr. editor of Astounding Stories magazine at the time along with Hubbard - this story is something the Scienos have gone out of their way to bury for obvious reasons - they allege that it is a legend and there were no witnesses, so it is libel - and of course then they sue the shit out of anyone who promulgates it (sue away, fucktards). Anyway, one variant of the story goes that either Asimov or Harlan Ellison*, or both, were indeed witnesses to this bet. Presumably this would have been about the time L.Ron was writing his crap for Astounding & such, but I don't know that anyone has ever been able to verify it. Considering his uselessness as a writer, his scheming to avoid tax and lifelong hucksterism in quest of money, it is probably not far from the truth. The letter to his wife mentioned by hikikomori is apparently quite factual, and this is more than enough to demonstrate his poisonous egomania. I'm still reading Bare-Faced Messiah which is a biography online of Hubbard, but I confess I haven't made much headway with it. Frauds and huxters bore me. *Ellison claimed that Al Bester, Cyril Kornbluth, and Lester Del Rey were the other witnesses, but Ellison was always full of shit & hardly a believable source, particularly since he would only have been 15 at the time this was supposed to have occurred!
• gonzo: Whacky beliefs in invisible freinds + time + popularity = credibility. Which is why people think the Catholic Pope has anything useful to say, but not (whoever is) the head of the Scientologists.
• Chyren: wrt Hubbard's bet. The story I heard was this: Supposedly L. Ron Hubbard wrote a book or short story about a man who invents a religion to make money. The story has all kinds of details as to how this can be done. After publishing the story, L. Ron was drinking with some authors and Asimov said that L. Ron's story was interesting but hardly believable. L. Ron responded that he could do it, and so the bet was made. Perhaps the bet wasn't made directly with Asimov... details may have been lost over time, but the kernel of the legend remains: that L. Ron's created the religion to make money. I always figured that if someone could track down L. Ron's story about the man who made a religion, the legend could be anchored successfully to truth. I don't know the name of the story, though. The pattern that Scientologists follow certainly seems to show this principle in action. Rich people are targetted most often by scientologists to join up with the religion, and are pressured the most. The hollywood connection I think is that there are a lot of disenfranchised people in Hollywood that are looking for the easy answers to Life the Universe and Everything. Scientology provides a rigorous and specific protocol for almost all activities to wave off any doubt or discomfort. Its obsession with e-meters and electronics, and stories of aliens give it an air of scientific validity and down-to-earth-ness instead of the airy-fairy spirituality that comes from say a Christian sect. It has its own form of confession much like Catholicism and it encourages members separate themselves from the non-Scientologist communities. It is a spectacularily focused and successful religion. That said, whether Beck is a scientologist is no matter. He still knows how to rock. He hasn't made his views on religion public, and he hasn't infused his music with scientological messages (unless they're all subliminal). So really, who cares?
• Man, I love religious intolerance! It totally kicks ass! Signed, An Atheist
• Sonny Bono I can deal with, but William fucking Shatner? Okay, let's never mention that goofy "religion" again, please. Big Davey, where are you getting the idea that Shatner is a scientologist?
• Spacediver, he's listed as one at the end of that Wikipedia list of famous Scientologists linked way up the thread. It's not mentioned in his entry, though, and this is the first I've heard of it.
• I scoured that list but see no mention of Mr. Shatner. what do you mean about "his entry"?
• I mean that when you click on the link that says "William Shatner", his own biography on Wikipedia doesn't mention anything about Scientology. It seems that someone has removed him from the list. Hmm.
• Wait, he *is* still there, just not alphabetically; he's at the very bottom.
• Man, I love religious intolerance! It totally kicks ass! Find me an actual religion and we can talk about religious intolerance. This is salesmanship.
• what is it about scientology that makes them so feared/hated/take less seriously than any other religion?? do people see it as a cult?? what do they do that's so much stranger than other religious groups?? Ok, permit me to expand on this. For a brief while, I worked on tax law. Tax exemption law to be more specific. Religious tax exemption law to be precise (though I won't mention any cases that weren't part of a published judgment). My intention: to come up with a principled way of separating a certain set of religious beliefs from, say, insanity. And the best set to deal with this particular problem is in tax evasion. People will try anything to avoid paying tax, and they'll come up with any religion -- even crazy, tongue-firmly-out-of-cheek ones, to do the job. (one group wouldn't send in a written factum to the court of appeal, opting to send it "telepathically" instead) The problem: I couldn't do it. I couldn't find a meaningful, objective way of separating the B.S. from genuine religion without assessing content, which of course is no-man's land and the courts are rightfully loathe to enter into it. So evidence of "sincerity of belief" is about all they get into. There was some talk of belief in "the supernatural, a greater power" etc, but some of that was found to exclude Buddhists and others, so that's out. In the end, I cannot draw a bright line between someone who thinks they deserve a tax exemption because Jesus speaks to him and someone who thinks that aliens are talking to him through his microwave. Both people could be just as crazy, but one gets a legal right, and the other does not. That is deeply troubling. Scientology was one of a vast array of organizations I analyzed, and it far more easily resemebled a sales product than any kind of religion. We don't or won't willingly act to separate the wheat from the chaff however, so... (in reality, the feds are very good at denying all kinds of tax claims on this basis. but my search for a logical bright line utterly failed)
• My layman's understanding of the whole IRS debacle was that the IRS found that, regardless of whether they claimed religious status or not, they were clearly a for-profit organization charging fees for a service, selling books and videotapes and whatnot, which no church can do without paying taxes. Tithes are one thing, fees another.
• I be Canadian, and didn't get enough time on this project to look into cross-cultural treatment of these guys, but I'd be interested in how the IRS handled it (and more to the point, on what legal principles they hung their hat).
• lots of info on those sites mct and dr.knick. i always thought it was a healthy loathing for that douche bag tom cruise behind the hatred of the scientology crowd.......
• Print shops are spying on Scientologists.
• Grand I tell you... Grand! Now pass the window cleaner please.