June 07, 2005

• There is little she can do on her own. My advice to her would be to consult with a respected child psychologist, get a statement that the conflict between the parents is detrimental to the child, and take that to court to force either a change in the visitation or to force some counseling between the two parents. Don't trust my opinion on this, mind you, I'm not a family counselor.... oh, wait, yes I am..
• What HuronBob said. Also, as the years progress, the child will be more likely to catch on to behavior determined by context, knowing (though not necessarily accepting) that Mom is more strict than Dad, and generally acting accordingly.
• Argh indeed.
• Time will really help. What I did with my kids was explain, over and over again, that those were the rules at Daddy's house, and these are the rules at Mommy's house, and, basically, oh my children, when in Rome you must do as the Romans do. Eventually they got it. Remember too that 3 year olds are working out a lot of transition and boundary rules as they make the change from toddler to preschooler, so some of this would be happening even without the two houses. Transitions between houses are going to be rough for a while; they always are, and, unfortunately, kind of always will be, but as the kids get older the transition time gets shorter. Pre-empting the trouble by sitting down immediately and talking about it "What did you do at Daddy's? What do you think we're going to do here today?" also helps a lot. Three year olds like to explain their world view; let her talk her way through the differences in as non-judgmental, non valuing a way as possible: "So, at Daddy's you have ice cream for breakfast. That's nice. Here we have eggs." Try not to make the fatal error of saying, "Gee, it's great (or terrible) to have ice cream for breakfast." Just lay down the facts without adjectives. Megan's Book of Divorce, by Erica Jong, is very 70s California but if you can find a copy, buy it. It's really good at helping kids understand & cope with having two separate households to live in.
• OK, I'm no shrink, but I'm a parent, so perhaps... First, three year olds are notorious misbehavers regardless of parental influence. The are short tempered, willful, disobedient, messy little boogers. It could easily be that dad is just not up to maintaining the sort of discipline necessary for a three year old, and that *looks* like a no rules sort of situation. Nevertheless, even if dad was enforcing the same ruleset as mom, little miss would misbehave. That's just how they are. Nevertheless, to echo mygothlaundry: mom's job is to enforce the rules consistently and without impugning dad regardless of what happens elsewhere. We may have ice cream for breakfast at Dad's, but here we don't. Period. End of story. Much as you want to give in (and I am as big a softie when it comes to Rabban and Feyd-Rautha as any Duke), consistency is the key. Mom's rules never never never change, and neither do the consequences, no matter what sort of tomfoolery goes on over at dad's. We are not supposed to be our children's friends,. after all, we are their parents. Huge difference.
• Gift the daughter with a Dick Tracy watch installed with an electro-shock system and wirelessly tied to computer-driven keyword recognition software, keying off a list of verboten activities and phrases. Soon the delightful youngster will associate horrible torturous pain (and perhaps memory blackouts, please consult your pediatrician before deployment) with Daddy's house, and lack of pain with Mommy's house. This system has been successfully tested with wayward spouses out for a night of drinking, and required only mild therapy for test subjects after use.
• Relax. The kids are going to grow out of the phase where this kind of thing matters. The most important thing is to keep good relations with the ex so the kids feel secure and life is peacefull. Its like loud noise from the apartment next door - sure its annoying, but there isn't much you can do and your life WILL be better if you go with the flow. There could be all kinds of reasons the kids throw a fit when they get home: --> They miss their father and are upset that they can't be with him more. --> The transition from structured to unstructured is difficult (my three year old has problems when he gets home from pre-school, which is much more structured than home - it works both ways) With all due respect, I think the approach HuronBob suggests is a recipie for disaster. As long as the father loves the children it is better to respect his parenting choices and ask only that he respect yours. Children do NOT need consistent rules between different environments. They figure out what to do based on the context. Of course, two parents in the same house is a completely different story...
• Pikestrider, I couldn't agree with you less (no offense). Overindulgence is not harmless. It's a great way to turn a kid into a miserable adult. As far as I've seen, kids who get everything they want generally don't value anything they get, and eventually don't want anything except to keep getting things they don't want. (I know- mess of a sentence.) These people aren't married anymore, but they're still parenting together. It's really important for parents to act in unison- anything else makes for a fractured, confusing environment. If this guy is really operating in good faith, and not trying to get his former partner's goat, it should be possible to get him to understand that.
• I am not a child psychologist, nor a parent, however I was once a three-year old child with divorced parents. (And I have been a quasi step-parent to one, as well.) It sounds to me like the father in this case is playing good daddy/bad mommy to try and win the favor of his child. That's gonna backfire on him, eventually, either in the form of resentment, or in the form of a three, four, five year old that does something so over the top behaviorally (Painting the walls in a restaurant with pancake syrup, anyone?) that he's forced to crack down hard... leading to resentment. Assuming the father in this case isn't going to listen to reason, from his ex or from any counselors, she might try explaining the situation to the child, in an age-appropriate way that avoids putting any blame on the father (Even though he deserves a sharp rap upside the head). Or, she can tough it out, keep being the bad guy, and take comfort in knowing that it will pass. The kid will eventually figure things out.
• Having been in that position, there's not a lot to be done about it. (The father has every right to spoil the kid after all, and unless you can prove actual harm there's almost no point in going to court.) There's two problems here. First, the child is treated differently in two different places. It's a little confusing, and they are going to be constantly re-adapting to it as they grow. But they will figure it out. And that's a good lesson to learn anyway. Second, for the father that only sees the kid once in a while - who wants to spoil it by being a hard ass ? When I had visitation, I let things slide that after I got custody were no longer allowed. My parents suffer the same dilemma, and it causes me no end of grief to see them let him behave pooorly. Here's my advice - *Relax*. Really. Kids will pick up on that type of tension and act out on it. If it really bothers you, you might try to talk to the father about it, but in my experience it's hard to usefully critique someones parenting style without pissing them off. Also, others have pointed out that kids are pretty smart; she'll understand the difference in expected behaviors pretty quick if you let her concentrate on that. I have a really great and open relationship with my 10 year old. It wouldn't be that way if I let his mother piss me off everytime she did something stupid. Which is frightfully often. He's gotten to where he is irritated by her idiocy, too. It's far better that he came to those feelings on his own. The hardest thing in the world to just let go, and trust the kid will be fine.
• How does your friend know that the father has no rules for her and lets her eat, do and say anything she wants to? It's easy for both mom and dad to misinterpret/misrepresent what's really going on, and likewise for the child to exaggerate/withhold. I've seen this over and over. My parents divorced when I was 3 and a half. I wish they had respected eachother more at that time (as they do now). Alas, emotions are ripe when children are involved. Placing blame on the other parent seems to be the easy way out, and IMO not setting a good example for the child. Afterall, she is the mother, so what is stopping her from enforcing the rules of her household? I would encourage her look inwards, find her confidence and embrace the wonders that are being a parent.
• it's my experience in a similar situation that 1) all you can do is stick to what you believe is best for the child when in your custody 2) that this was probably a problem when the kid was still living with the parents ... if it wasn't resolvable when they were together, it won't be resolvable now huronbob, unless this situation starts showing serious consequences, i believe that your advice could lead to a never ending battle over things that would be much worse for the child than what's going on now ... conflicts in this kind of situation tend to snowball ...
• monkeyfilter: short tempered, willful, disobedient, messy little boogers
• As long as the child in question isn't in physical danger, and isn't being emotionally abused, I think mygothlaundry and Fes are right. It's actually not a bad thing for kids to learn that different situations require different sets of behaviours. It's something we all have to figure out eventually, and better with the support of an understanding parent. I think the key thing here is to find other ways of saying "no." It's also okay for the parents to have different ideas of what's acceptable, as long as they are clear and consistent with a toddler. So Mom can say, "That's something you can do at Daddy's house, but I don't like it here." What's more important in this situation (and this is my POV as a child of divorced parents) is that Dad isn't saying nasty things about Mom and/or vice versa. So where mygothlaundry says to be non-judgemental about what happens at Dad's place, I strongly agree. My sister is married to a guy who has two sons from a previous relationship (they have the boys every second weekend, plus holidays) and they've been through all this and come out the other side with two very polite and thoughtful kids, now aged 10 and 7 (they were four and one when their parents split up). They have very different behaviours for being with my sister and their Dad compared to being with their Mum, who lets them spend all weekend in their pyjamas if they want. If she's coming back tired and cranky from being allowed to stay up late or from overdosing on sugar, a good night's sleep will sort it out. If she's coming back to Mom swearing like a trooper, or badmouthing Mom, then I'd start putting my foot down. The other thing is that if the divorce is very recent, and/or not amicable, it's probably still hard for the parents to agree on anything. Another of my sisters (I have many) split up with her partner a few months ago and they took about three months to settle into a semi-comfortable situation with sharing time with their son, including the badmouthing phase and the "I won't do anything you say just because you said it" phase. It's by no means a perfect situation, but it's common. I hope they come to a reasonable conclusion eventually.
• Maybe the child is acting up because her parents recently divorced. It may not have anything to do with Dad's rules at all.
• Argh, your friend has my sympathies - three year olds can be a real challenge. A few thoughts: Where is mom getting the info that there are no rules at dad's house? I can easily picture a clever child inventing a scenario - "But daddy lets me have ice cream for breakfast!" in the hope that mom will serve dessert instead of food. You see a lot of wishful, magical thinking at that age. (Part of why it's so fun!) If, in fact, dad has decided to make his house a rule-free zone to try to become the child's 'favorite parent', please encourage your friend to get into family counseling. The most destructive thing the dad can do is to use the kid to serve his own emotional needs. (whether that be getting back at the mom, being the favorite parent, whatever) Mom could use some professional advice if that turns out to be the battle she's fighting. Kids that age do tend to have a lot of trouble with transitions - and moving between households can be a big deal. All mom can do is be super-humanly patient, consistent, and explain, explain, explain. Not a fun time - good luck to you all!
• >It's actually not a bad thing for kids to learn that different situations require different sets of behaviours. Certainly true. However, I would say letting your kid do whatever she wants, with no rules, is not a parenting style; it's an abdication of parental responsibility. And while it's a bit much to call it abusive, it can certainly be harmful.
• Things will get better as the child gets older, from what I've seen. My niece is a two-household child -- not the product of a divorce, but born out of wedlock (and an ultimately hate-filled relationship). As she's grown up, she's learned what's acceptable at her mom's, what's acceptable at her dad and stepmom's, and what's acceptable at her grandparents'. Her stepmom is definitely the strictest when it comes to permissible behavior, and she's learned to adjust to those demands as her reasoning powers have grown. I think she's even developed a healthy respect for her stepmom as a result, as she's coming to realize that she's being regarded and expected to act as a young lady. Also, what rocket88 and Fes said. This is a small child, which are unruly and ill-tempered enough to begin with, but now it's also a small child going through some emotionally traumatic experiences. The kid is bound to do some acting out until things settle down. Counseling for the child, or any kind of education the parents can get on how to make this transition easier for the child, will be helpful.
• a bit off-topic, perhaps, but i'm noticing more and more that "divorced" seems to be the new "married". what's up with that?
• I was divorced before it was cool.
• I screwed over my kid's dad. So that's an issue? n You feel you have no responsibity. Waaaah. Make your case, where are you?
• sorry, meant responsibility. Or so I've been told.
• What I meant is none of your business, I had an abortion, many years ago, and it changed my life. \I remember how sick I was because of the drip (Pain killer), maybe valium. Sorry, don't quite understand the stomping. I was desperate to get rid of a pregnancy and was willing to induce a poigancy overdose (I know this is the right wording: I want foxglove but I can't think of its name
• Whoa, that didn't make a whole hella sense. Sorry. This got me pissed in a most irrational way. My apologies for the WFT factor.
• Or, the WTF factor. Shit, I'd better cut my losses. But I am angry about this.
• What the others have said--normal 3-year-old behavior perhaps magnified by divorce and the dad wanting to make his limited time with the kid special and memorable. Not good, no, but unless it escalates, not the end of the world. Maybe instead of being the Queen of No your friend could find alternate, fun activities? "No, we don't eat ice cream for dinner dear, but let's make funny faces on our plates with peanut butter raisins and apple slices!" "The TV stays off today, but look at the construction paper and glitter mommy bought, let's make some jungle animals." My son is 5 now and our big thing is to go on nature walks, he has a little pack with a magifying glass and plastic bags for our discoveries. We turn over rocks and count the ducks at the park and poke roadkill with a stick. And no matter how frustrated she becomes with her ex, she must never, ever speak ill of him in front of the child. My wife and her ex did not get along at all, but both respected this rule, and their (and now my) two kids have grown up to be fine and well-adjusted young adults.
• Digitalis.
• Thanks for all the help. I sent her this link. I'm sure it will help.
• Space Kitty and Stan the Bat speak words of wisdom. Heed them. I think it's rather premature to head off to counseling for the kid, but mom might feel better for it. The best thing that mom can do is hold this child. Lots of cuddles, hugs, reading books, rocking, back rubs. Kids today NEED this physical contact desperately and don't get enough of it. Mom's working, Dad's working, everybody's too busy to touch. I gar-un-tee if Mom holds daughter at least ten minutes a day, all the ice cream in the world won't matter a fig if the game Dad's playing is good parent/bad parent. It's amazing how much "bad" behavior can be "cured" by lots of hugs and paying attention, regular mealtimes, and naps. Hugs, and be consistant, hugs and be firm, and more hugs, plus don't lose your cool. You can't ever hold a child too much. Remember, they'll never be this age again, and your chances are slipping away. /wise GramMa