June 04, 2005

CuriousGeorge/Clichés? Is it possible to use a phrase like "shadows lengthen" or "shadows creep" in a short poem (in which every word counts, unlike prose where there's sometimes more leeway) without sounding cliché? [MI]

Making the specific question more general: There's a point at which a phrase is just so... accurate that it just... is, you know? And maybe then it's beyond cliché? But on the other hand, anything overused becomes cliché... I guess... So where is the line drawn? If I have to ask "Is it a cliché?" then it probably IS, huh? Or is it?

posted by shane 19 years ago
  • Indecision is the key to flexibility
  • Indecision is the key to flexibility posted by Argh at 06:20AM UTC on June 04, 2005 "ARGH!" indeed! Hmm, that's very zen... I dunno--is "lengthening shadows" cliché when it's just exactly WHAT SHADOWS DO when the sun sets? Is it so obvious that it's beyond cliché? Guess that's what I'm wondering. Off to bed now--"I'll take my answer offline" in the a.m. Thanks!
  • dictionary.com suggests that a cliche is "an expression or idea that has lost its originality or force through overuse". If it fits, and it still emotes the way you want, then I say - go for it. Disclaimer: The last poetry I wrote was as an angsty teenager and was summarily burned once I realised that bad prose is something you get blackmailed with.
  • The shadows creeped brightly on the moonlit lawn at at dawn as sunlight morosely slinked off the grass and onto the darkest clouds
  • O what creeps these shadows be!

  • shane, Perhaps the penumbrae tiptoed?
  • yes. I mean no. Uh, what was the question again?
  • At dusk slowly the shadows lengthened While my disquiet slowly strengthened But my fear was unrequited And my cautious spirit slighted.
  • Poe?
  • When in doubt: find a better phrase. Try replacing the objects in question with colors/things that are similar to the objects, or toying with a thesaurus (though do this carefully -- while the worst poetry to go through is the Strong Sad-esque emopoetry, the second-worst poetry is the obscenely pretentious, "look at my AMAZINGLY LARGE vocabulary!" poetry.) Or try shifting meanings -- often, in description, I tend to grab a cliche *thought*, which tends to poison all of the prose that comes from that point on. Or, if it looks good, go with it. Either/or.
  • Cliches are like pornography, shane. You can't describe them in words, but you know 'em when you see 'em.
  • OK. Hand over the pen, before somebody gets hurt. Seriously.
  • Just try, "Fuck dude...it's dark!" Worked in my poem; As I slit my wrists Joy Division Dividing me from Life I looked outside "Fuck dude...it's dark!" I said list Lessly Less is not...more Don't they know that!!!! Then I put On Band-Aids And watched Buffy.
  • Context in writing is all, I think -- overall effext depends on the other words in the poem as well. In general keeping imagery fresh makes writing interesting to readers. If there are unexpected or unusual or thought-provoking images here and there it's not so boring to read as more predictable or familiar ones. A steady diet of them, though, with no relief, can also be too much. You have to go by what effexts you intend and discover/invent new ways to of regarding the world. Forget about rules, just play around with it for a while. Give yourself permission to try anything. Experiemnt. You may want to a piece aside -- then come back to it with fresh eyes, so to speak.. Might try considering other things that lengthen or grow longer -- like liars' noses, or cats uncurling from a snooze or the like. Good luck with your writing!
  • =want to set a piece aside
  • birds of a feather flock together kill two with a single stone you'll find one in your hand, alone bite the bullet, bite the dust, bite off more than you can chew and bite the hand that feeds you. don't look a gift horse in the mouth unless you're leading it to water: please don't beat it if it's slaughtered. i was a bag of bones of contention, and i had a chip off the old block on my shoulder. you had an axe to grind, and so you buried the hatchet in my back and cried wolf over spilled milk all the way to the bank.
  • Wouldn't Joy Division divide you from joy? *ducks*
  • It's a cliche, so don't use it.
  • And it's also dull. Describe the feeling of shadows lengthening. Use a metaphor for shadow, and an alternate word for lengthen. I dunno I would have done something like dark-tide reach or some such. Cliche is the enemy of good writing, dull phrasing is the enemy of poetry. You are evoking mood, not describing a scene. my 2 cents.
  • Perhaps the penumbrae tiptoed? LOL! Thanks for all the great poems and advice. Very cool.
  • Wouldn't Joy Division divide you from joy? Life and joy, are like, the same. So when I'm all sad and shit it's like Joy = Life, so it's minus Life. Which is the same as Joy, right? C'mon man, it's like a metaphor or something. Dude, people think poetry is really hard, but if you're all depressed because your girlfriend is such a bitch, you can write really good shit like check this out As I drink 10 beer Circle Jerks Jerking me From The Circle of Life I look outside "Whoa...the cops are here" I said Totally pissed Don't they know my girfriend dumped me!!!! I throw up Then watch Repo Man
  • That is to poetry as jacking off to Jenna Jameson videos is to having a complex, life-affirming relationship with another human being. Shit, gotta run to the video store, totally forgot about these tapes...
  • Whew, thank god I only jack-off to Alex Dane.
  • Writing truly atrocious poetry is very therapeutic; it invariably cheers me up if I'm grouchy. I challenge all and sundry to write the godawfulest poetry EVAR!
  • Whoa, random SNL flashback!
  • i don't think every phrase one uses in a poem has to be original or non-cliche'd ... sometimes, something like "shadows lengthen" will work because it sounds right in the sentence you're using ... especially if you can relate that phrase to something that comes later that isn't so ordinary, by using lengthen in a much different context "shadows lengthen in my heart" would be a cliche "shadows lengthen in my heart like grass" takes a cliche and turns it into something unexpected it's important not to overuse cliches of course ... but it's just as important to not allow the idea of original phrases and imagery to overtake your writing to the point when you aren't willing to use a cliche when it's the natural thing to say ...
  • Alex Dane is sooooooooo 1997.
  • Okay, lemme try. Holy fuck, I think Greg Brown is a badass musician Imeanoverandunderfuckingrocksballs and there should be more songs about creeks and murder Oh and I drank a lot of white wine because it's muggy and hot so don't think I'm gay or anything even though I have very neatly pressed trousers Oh to hell with it, where's my MC Hammer CD?
  • Sweet!
  • "the shadows getted longer" probably hasn't been used that much....
  • Not to be a jerk, but: "shadows lengthen in my heart like grass" takes a cliche and turns it into something unexpected ...something unexpectedly bad, that is...
  • shadows stretch shadows creep shadows haunt you back to sleep shadows getting linger lengthen and fade daylight makes you pray for shade
  • The day was long and lasted a long time, until night. And then night came and shadows sprang from the shadows like wild animals in the wild in the dark.
  • is it okay if i link that in my angsty livejournal, mr. knickerbocker?