April 13, 2005

• I'd fuck Courtney Love if it meant Barack Obama would become President. Hillary doesn't have a chance of being elected President.
• Maybe Barack. We need to move on from the Clintons.
• I've also heard talk of Condoleeza Rice running. That would be interesting if Rice vs. Clinton was the race. Of course I don't want either of them to be president, so what do I know?
• My crabs have a better chance of unionizing to get better living conditions than Hillary Clinton does of becoming president.
• Out of your choices, Barack O'Bama. We need a good Irishman in the White House again. (Yes, yes, I know.....!)
• President Hillary Clinton...(shudder) I'd vote for Condi--that woman is amazing. And as far as Jeb--probably.
• Considering the possible Republican nominees, I'd say Hillary has a very good chance to win. I figure gas should be about $3.50 a gallon by then. Social Security would be "reformed", and medicare and medicaid will be severely cut to continue Bush's tax cuts. The Democrats should be able to run Charles Manson and still have a good shot at the White House in 2008. Just my $0.02
• A shit load of people are going to be running for the ticket from both the democratic as well as the evil republican sides. Big fucking deal. Yes they are starting the process even as we speak, but polls in 2005 are going to have little to no influence on the race in 2008.
• Barack Obama is too young and inexperienced, no matter how promising, and if he's beat once then it's a huge negative for when he tries again. Better to bide his time in the Senate and build his rep throughout America. Go into the presidency already holding a monster of a record. I have no idea if Hillary would be a great President, but right now she has all the downsides of Kerry plus she's a woman (yeah, I know, 'duh') whose last name is Clinton, both of which will cost her additional votes from those carrying a grudge. If she's to have any chance she needs a popular victory under her belt, something to reshape her narrative in the minds of the country. I doubt she can pull that off by 2008. Unfortunately she's racing the clock. The country might elect a woman, but not an old woman, no matter how much they like old men. Giuliani's going nowhere unless the GOP leadership and the Christian Right implode. He's too liberal and eastern for the Conservative Right which rules the party currently, and his skeletons and record from New York won't stand well to close scrutiny. They just like him for postcards and speeches. I'd be concerned about my Senate seat if I was Hillary though. Jeb Bush: This guy's trouble. Connected to the dynasty, plus his machine in Florida, loved by the conservative and Christian rights. Comes across as sharper than George, and people loved George. Plus he's kept his distance from Washington, so any problems George or Tom create won't stick that well to Jeb. No matter how popular the Dems are by 2008, I don't think they'd want to see Jeb on the opposing ticket.
• Should Hillary run? No. While I think she might make a fine president, too many people hate her, and I think that makes her un-electable. Unfortunately there aren't a whole lot of obvious other Democratic candidates. And if we're not careful, we're going to end up with yet another, and even more stupid, member of the Bush dynasty. That would be a shame. As for Obama, he seems a little lightweight at this point in his career. Yes, he gave a lovely speech at the 2004 convention, and he handily beat that lunatic Keyes. But does he have what it would take to run against an extremely well-organized Republican campaign? I don't know, and the stakes in the 2008 presidential campaign are too high to take the risk. Fortunately, I think it's a little early to be trying to decide on candidates. Who knew in 1990 who Bill Clinton was? Who knew GWB in 1997? Hopefully the Democratic Party can get its act together and come up with an electable candidate in the next couple of years.
• I think it's a little early to be trying to decide on candidates. Who knew in 1990 So come on, political monkeys let's figure out who else is out there! We'll focus on Republicans, because it's a lot easier to figure out their litmus test at the moment. Cheney's a heart transpant waiting to happen. DeLay is poison. Guiliani and McCain are off the reservation. Arnold's unconstitutional. Jeb has 'claimed' to be out. That leaves Frist and Condi. Who else? Is your Republican governer ambitious? Is the GOP senator next door a handsome goldenboy?
• I wouldn't count on it, Bobsled. No matter how much worse things get in four years, the giant GOP Spin Machine we've come to love from the 2004 election is going to be beaten without one hell of fight. High gas prices, big debt, and a bad economy really worked against the GOP in November. Plus it's along shot to think the democrats can get their act together and manage to nominate someone as electable as Charles Manson. The less time Obama is in the Seante the better. A long time Senator's voting record is a great thing to have when you are seeking the White House. By the way, I was being sarcastic, being a Senator is in fact, not a good thing to have to campaign with. Obama also has enough political experince and age. He was born in 1961, which is still young for a President but he's still a baby boomer, and Bush has only been a politician for two years longer than him.
• you can bet on it.
• I'd much rather see Obama with a few more years under his belt before he goes for it, which I hope he does. The first four years after Bush is going to be our recovery period. We need time to recalibrate, then Obama should definately give it a go.
• I'll be annoyed if Hillary runs and receives the nomination. While I think that supporting an "electable" candidate is the wrong approach (see how well that worked for us last year?), I think that we do need a leader that we can rally behind. Hillary Clinton is too polarizing and has alienated too many people to be a successful candidate. I honestly think that the first woman president will have to be conservative. We'll see how it goes. I desperately want someone I can believe in. I've forgotten what it feels like to be proud of leadership in this country, and that is a sad thing. If Jeb Bush ever made it to the white house I would officially lose all faith in humanity and civilization as we know it.
• sorry, but am I the only one who found Obama's famous speech comically bad? We worship an awesome God in the Blue states??? I cant be the only one. Hillary is trying to put herself to the right of the Republicans lately. With Dean running the DNC, hopefully we will get a real liberal or close to it. For all the red state/blue state crap, I suspect it will all come down to Ohio and Florida again. The bottom line of 2004 is Kerry had two chances to win one and failed miserably in both places.
• None of those people seem likely to me. Obama is more hype than substance at the moment, Hilary is unelectable. Giuliani's 9-11 performance will be long forgotten by 2008, but his deficits won't be. Jeb Bush seems unlikely too. I suspect the country will have had an assful of the Bush name by then and from up here in Illinois he already seems like the retarded brother of a guy who's IQ barely breaks double digits. Without the family name and connections both of them would be probably be selling used cars somewhere.
• Can't 'Hillary' and 'Condi' be granted a full or at least a last name? Jesu christo, y'all. Jeb gets a last name, John gets a last name, George gets a middle inital, Dean isn't referred to as "Howie." But here we have "Hillary" and "Condi." Hows about we refer to them as Rodham Clinton and Rice?
• Hillary is easier to type than Rodham Clinton, and it's taking all my energy just to bother to use the caps lock key right now, and just Clinton would be confused with that one guy who was president for a while. Rice is a small Asian food. I'm not going to change what I call these chicks to suit some idea of feminism. Besides, don't you have somthing to iron right now? Go make me a sandwich.
• I don't want to make threats, but if Jeb Bush even comes near.............................
• Haven't you read the fine print in the Patriot Act? All Federal Elections will cease by 2007 and the President will be declared Emperor.
• Bruce Brubaker, try again.
• no
• Come on goofyfoot. Jeb only gets three letters, W only one, Dean four. Be honest, how many conversations have you been in where people have continuously used "George Walker Bush" to refer to him? In spoken conversation, there's a three syllable max for the subject that you refer to. I don't know wear it comes from, but it's there. Anyone with four or more syllables will have their name truncated, or it will be swapped for a nickname that within the three syllable limit. That's just how it goes, and it makes no difference what your genitals are like. In typed or written conversation, names will be truncated as far as possible that will still allow for identification of the subject. Again, the shape of your genitals will have no effect on this. For both spoken and typed/written conversations, there may be (at the beginning of the topic) one or two instances of saying the full name to establish the subject's identity. That's all there will be. You're projecting bias where there is none.
• It's way too early to be selecting nominees. However, it is not way too early to predict the outcome. The [Republican] will soundly trounce the [Democrat]. It won't even be close this time.
• Mrs. Clinton should most certainly not run for president. If the Democrats know what's good for them (and there's evidence that they don't) they'll groom John Edwards for the job in '08. This is the guy who can actually win.
• This is too funny. You're discussing wether a woman or a black man could become president in the US? I don't know where y'all get your information from, but I assure you that will never (not in a very long time) happen. I'll give you my awesome prediction; the next US president will be a white man, with a large personal fortune and with powerful friends and contacts in the arms and energy industries. He will, as tradition dictates, hold non-US life in contempt. In fact, it could be just about any white male high level Republican or Democrat. Stop fooling yourself into believing that your system works for anybody but the ruling plutocracy.
• What, you're saying Pluto should be President? He's a dog, for fuck's sake! At least Mickey and Goofy are reasonably anthropomorphic. Do you know anthropomopho?
• Stop fooling yourself into believing that your system works for anybody but the ruling plutocracy. Are you an American? If not, STFU.
• Are you an American? If not, STFU. Um, why? It was meant as friendly advice. Just trying to spare you from further disappointment. I'll STFU when you yanks regain control over the destructive system you've unleashed upon the world.
• I believe the first woman and the first black president will both come from the Republican party. A Republican woman/black will get a good percentage of the woman/black vote on top of the Republican vote. The racists might vote third party, but they are not going to vote someone who is pro-affirmative action over someone who is black and anti. It will be even easier for a woman. Sexist conservatives will vote for an anti-choice woman over a pro-choice man any day of the week. A black democrat will strike fear into the hearts of people with even a twinge of racism. A black democrat who is president will be seen as someone who might actually make an effort to improve the lives of black people in this country. I can promise you that the "swing" voters will not like that idea at all. As unfair and ironic as it is, I think the first president who is black or a woman will come from the party that has been historically against blacks and females. Who have gone the farthest in American politics? Rice, Powell, Thomas, O'Connor, Ginsburg, Albright, and Marshall. That is a 4-3 count in my book, with Marshall being almost too old to count. The Repubican party seems to understand that they can undermine the causes of minorities and women by appointing minorities and women to positions of power who are not likely to advance the causes of those minorities and women. The US public can only tolerate so many blacks and women on the Supreme Court. If there are already existing blacks and women on the Supreme Court, then the Democrats will have a hard time adding any more. Call it a preemptive strike.
• No Yes FUCK NO! Oh Mais Oui, But Not Until 2012
• Just trying to spare you from further disappointment. Thanks! What would we yanks ever do without your kind guidance!
• Thanks! What would we yanks ever do without your kind guidance! You're most welcome. As long as you keep believing in your system of war corporatism, you'll continue to be personally responsible for the atrocities perpetrated in your name. Believing that a black man or a woman could become president within a reasonable timeframe is wishful thinking. Believing that a black man or a woman could actually make a difference if elected is outright delusional.
• Good. Now that that's settled, it's time for pancakes.
• I love fucking pancakes.
• MonkeyFilter: Are you an American? If not, STFU.
• Are you an American? If not, STFU. posted by fuyugare at 12:34PM UTC on April 13, 2005 Wow. And I bet you're the first person to start screaming whenever that "ugly American" phrase comes up. Hey, if the stereotype fits... I really don't understand why Hillary Clinton is perceived as being hated, and I do believe she has a good shot. Look at all the crap Bill Clinton got, and he got elected, twice. I'd like to see her run with Obama as her VP. I'm afraid Jeb will run, though, and get in. But it is too soon to call this. There are going to be candidates we haven't even heard of popping out of the woodwork over the next three years.

• Orange Swan: ... I bet you're the first person to start screaming whenever that "ugly American" phrase comes up. Hey, if the stereotype fits...

  You are remarkably perceptive.
• I'd vote for Condi--that woman is amazing. If it was anyone else, I'd say this was sarcasm, but it's MSC. He actually believes that this woman is amazing. As national security advisor, she let terrorists commit the deadliest act on our own soil, killing thousands, and then blamed Hussein, who was then suspected and later proven to have absolutely nothing to do with it. Yeah, that's fucking amazing alright. It's people like you that make the rest of us think all republicans are batshit fucking crazy. Just to head the obvious republican tactic off at the pass, I'm not racist or sexist. Please nominate a female/minority that hasn't proven him/herself as grossly incompetant at defending this country and I will gladly consider them as a candidate. As for the rest of this conversation: Giuliani- his chances went straight out the fucking window when he said it wasn't W's fault we didn't find WMDs, but the troops' fault. But he does get millions of dollars in consulting business as a consolation prize. Jeb's out, as stated above. He seems like he would've made a good candidate, but would the country go for a 3rd Bush after rejecting the first 2? (Yeah I know W got reelected, but take a look at his approval rating- lowest of any second term pres ever.) The FPP missed a few- Feingold is most likely (unfortunately) out now as he is currently going through his second divorce. Schweitzer is the new rockstar dem gov from Montana. He hasn't mentioned any interest yet, but he'd make a very strong and appealing candidate who also stands up for both libertarian and liberal values (which seem to be overlapping more and more these days). Biden (Delewave sen), Bayh (Indiana sen), Mark Warner (Dem gov from VA, he did a good job of rescuing my state from the fiscal shithole the previous GOP gov had gotten us into). And both Kerry and Edwards may run again.
• I'll take Kerry over Biden, Bayh or Edwards. Biden and Bayh smell of the old and discredited style of Democratic politics, and Edwards is fairly unimpressive as a strategist. Warner should challenge George Allen in 2006 for the senate seat. Schweitzer — now there's an interesting choice. I'm certainly looking forward to hearing more from him. A Schweitzer/Clark or Clark/Schweitzer ticket would appeal to the (American) political centre, and might conceivably peel off a few Republican votes here and there. And let's be honest here, the 2008 race will be won in the 1-2% margin if the Democrats are to win at all. The Republicans have immense factors in their favour -- they control the voting systems, the media dances to their tune, and they have a hyperenergized base. If Bush wasn't radioactive in 2004, he certainly won't be in 2008. The Democrats, in contrast, have a dwindling, increasingly defeatist base, the worst media-savvy since the invention of television, and all-around bland leadership. They have made an industry out of hitting up the progressives for cash, then selling them out. I have no hope of the Democrats finding a strong voice this generation, far less pulling off a come-from-behind victory in 2008.
• I love fucking pancakes. I've heard of messy kinks, but this takes the cake, so to speak.
• The only thing worse than a democrat is a republican, and vice versa.
• Condi? Amazing? At what failing upwards? Sure. Other than that, amazing can only be used as a modifier for "bad".
• hicinbaby's comment above asked who knew W in 1997 and Clinton in 1990? A lot of people, but not nationally. I was told by an FOB (Friend of Bill) in 1989 that Clinton would be president some day, probably in the next election. In 1997, there were already murmuring of a presidential bid from W in Texas. The prospective candidates are out there already, and someone already knows about them. In theory we should be able to put monkey heads together and come up with a list. Right now, I'd say that Sen. Cornyn and Rep. Hutchison are up-and-comers. Not for the top slot, but watch them for other things.
• Tangential: What'll happen first? Black President, or woman President?
• Both
• My money's on black before female. Either way, it'll likely be a Republican, but I'm betting black first.
• I dont want a black president...or for that matter a white one either. Chartreuse! That's the color i want...chartreuse.
• Kirk's Girlfriend for president! Which one?
• dng, good point. It could very easily be both...
• If I were to run, I'd be the first golden brown president.
• I'm amazed that no one's said anything about the "As long as you keep believing in your system of war corporatism, you'll continue to be personally responsible for the atrocities perpetrated in your name" comment. Although now that I've pasted it, I guess there's nothing much to say because it's just so unrealistic and oversimplified. Nevermind. Carry on.
• I'd vote for Condi--that woman is amazing. If you consider whoring your soul to win power by using lies to market a war in which tens of thousands of people "amazing," I guess you can call her that. Ah, davidmsc, you trollish right-winger, you!
• Oops -- that should be "a war in which tens of thousands of people will die..."
• Ixnay on the olltray, please. He simply doesn't share your views.
• It was a joke.
• davidmsc and I are on good terms, if diametrically opposed in terms of politics.
• While I think that supporting an "electable" candidate is the wrong approach (see how well that worked for us last year?) Trouble was a lot of informed people already knew that Kerry was unelectable. The Republicans had their knives sharpened for years. Too bad the Democratic voters were almost as badly informed as their Republican counterparts and made a snap judgement "TV soundbite" decision. Now that Bush has his "mandate" the Repubs will be doing everything to consolidate their power grab making it an uphill battle for the increasingly spineless and disorganized dems. I hold little hope, despite what bad news occurs or what candidates are floated, of the GOP losing power in 2008.On paper, Bush had incredible negatives arrayed against him yet Rove managed to spin most of that steaming pile of shit into pure gold for GWB. My political cynicism is now utterly complete.
• I don't believe it's hopeless for the Democrats but I do believe it's in the interest of Republicans to keep that idea alive till 2008 and beyond.
• should hillary rodham-clinton run for prez? sure, why not? guiliani is an idiot and jeb is scary like his brother. condi, amazing?? where, when?? please tell me. can hillary rodham-clinton win, doubtful. it would be wonderful if hrc ran and obama was on the vp ticket, but i believe it will take another 15-20 years for that to happen, and i regret to say that. i'm mid 40's, white female and i *wish* someone decent would run.
• But. all those years ago, they said a Catholic couldn't be elected/
• I think that's the first time I've ever heard Guiliani referred to as "an idiot". Most people, Dems and Republicans alike, seem to think he's fairly savvy, both politically and socially.
• Those people don't live in NYC, f8x =)
• Most people, Dems and Republicans alike, seem to think he's fairly savvy, both politically and socially. Except the Dems who saw him on the Today show:

  From the October 28 edition of NBC's Today: GIULIANI: The president was cautious. The president was prudent. The president did what a commander in chief should do. And no matter how much you try to blame it on the president, the actual responsibility for it really would be for the troops that were there. Did they search carefully enough? Didn't they search carefully enough?

  That's politically savvy? Blaming the troops for not finding the WMDs the president said were there? What little political capital he had left over from 9/11 turned to shit that day, and if you haven't heard anyone say so, then you haven't been listening. No one with a clue has any respect left for him, and no one who's been following current events is expecting him to have a shot in 2008.
• Its near impossible for a Senator to make the leap to the White House, as they will have to defend a congressional record that often includes compromise votes. Look no further than Kerry's inability to explain his voting on the war and subsequent funding. Best chance for election sits with the governors: Bill Richardson (D), George Pataki (R), Tom Ridge (R), Mark Warner (D), etc. Personally I think Jessie V will make a run at it.
• You all need to be more broadminded - why not the first Canadian president? I would totally vote for that. How do I get US citizenship?
• I'd echo Blue Hammer's statement, but would add the House of Representatives on the Better Chance Than Another Senator Ever Being President Again. Draft Blair '08?
• Salon does a profile of Schweitzer. Now I need a change of pants.
• hillary clinton would like flag burners to go to jail.
• Man y'all are killin' me with the shitty news today. I demand hot chick-on-chick action!
• DELAY: Nothing worse than a woman know-it-all
• Damn that was boot-to-the-face hard. It’s nice that Chris Matthews has dropped all pretense to being an unmitigated GOP whore. Not only did he allow possibly the biggest crime boss in modern history onto his show to babble a bunch of bullshit completely unchecked, once the cameras were off he couldn’t get DeLay’s knob in his mouth fast enough:
• Internet smears target Obama: Bloggers, anonymous emails try to portray him as a Muslim who shouldn't be trusted. Fox News said he'd studied at a madrassa? I love the smell of swiftboating in the morning...