April 03, 2005

• Nukular incidents in Europe, Middle East and United States, followed by several nations not involved in the conflict forming a union and applying economic pressures against Europe and the US. There will be food and water rationing. An attack against Iran will fullfill the desire of martial law by the Neocons.
• What do you think the response of citizens will be against martial law under such conditions?
• Or should I say 'consumers'. Would it be an opportunity for persons to regain the title and right of 'citizens'?
• http://www.metafilter.com/mefi/40932 - duplicate metafilter thread
• Not an exact duplicate. The metafilter thread does not contain the phrase "flavored rectal thermometer."
• What do you think the world's reaction will be if the U.S. invades Iran in June and fails ... I know that these are not implausible events indivdually, but you're asking a very extended hypothetical that has predictions of very specific tertiary and quartenary effects. I'm not sure that it really has much value - I mean, what if they invade in July and the Iranian troops turn out to be poorly equipped and the missle attacks are against only Turkey? I could just as easily pose that hypothetical which might have very different results. In other words, you seem to be begging the question. You want to prove that the US will invade, causing these effects, and you do so by asking what the effects will be. posted by thedevildancedlightly at 9:00 PM PST on April 2 [!]
• This makes me so sad I can barely find anything to write about it. I have a five-year-old daughter and my hope was that before the world went entirely to hell she would be allowed to finish growing up in it. I guess a lot of Iraqi parents hoped that too.
• FYI, there's a site that's taking bets on when/if the US invades Iran.
• Living next to the United States of Nelson is getting more tedious by the second. Seriously; if this cock invades Iran it's time for a North American coup d'etat. Praise the Lord and pass the ammunition.
• FYI, there's a site that's taking bets on when/if the US invades Iran.
• >what if they invade in July and the Iranian troops turn out to be poorly equipped and the missle attacks are against only Turkey? Yeah, that wouldn't be so bad; who knows anybody in Turkey? Hell, if it works out THAT well, there's probably a BUNCH of other places we could invade! You meant something else besides that, right?
• I meant to add: "flavored rectal thermometer."
• Me, I'm just pumping up the tires in my bicycle and looking into farming in the inner city . . .
• Monkeyfilter: Because you can't find flavored rectal thermometers on Metafilter
• But what does this have to do with Pope Terri's death?
• The Iranians are developing a Terri flavored rectal thermometer. There....you have your link
• I'm going for the pine nut flavor rectal thermometer . . .
• But what if things don't go as planned?
• Tragedy comes in threes...Terri...John Paul..Mitch
• John . . . Paul . . . Ringo . . . George . . .
• "No blood for oil" will not be a protest cry, since there won't be any oil to speak of.
• mk1gti...Way to mod the thread. ^~^
• thankew! (^_^)
• On a more serious note, if things don't go as planned, fuel shortages, nationwide brownouts, no more 'internets'. We'll have to go back to posting public notices just as the forefathers did. Until we run out of paper. . .
• "...Iran actually has a capable air force." Please. Against the United States Air Force, the Iranian Air Force barely registers. Of all the possibilities and threats, the Iranian AF is NOT one to worry about.
• I'm not sure I see a big difference in the end results if things don't go as planned, or if they do. How stable will the midlde east or the world be after a 'successful' attack on Iran? The 'war on terror' is easier to understand as a war on international diplomacy. Apologies for the humorless posts, by the way- this stuff really upsets me. There is that rumored connection between sowing and reaping... I fear we have prepared for ourselves, for our kids, and for the whole world, a red-hot, Louisville-slugger-sized rectal thermometer.
• the Iranian AF is NOT one to worry about. For the record: how many of the rosy predictions about the Iraq war did you personally believe?
• several nations not involved in the conflict forming a union and applying economic pressures against Europe and the US. There will be food and water rationing. What nations on earth could possibly apply enough economic pressures against America to cause food/water rationing? The US is a giantic food exporter; if they stop trading with the rest of the world, it's not Americans who'll go hungry. Even taking possible "nukular incidents" into account, why would an enemy bomb farms instead of cities? In a world war, America will be one of the few nations who can feed their people through domestic production. Many countries have seen their farmers perish in competition with government-subsidized food from the West, their farmland converted to other uses. Many have been surviving on Western aid. It's possible to screw America and Europe, but not before everyone else has been fucked to death.
• he Iranian AF is NOT one to worry about. There is something the russians have sold the Iranians nicknamed the 'Amraamski'. It's got twice the range of the american Amraam air to air missle. Let me paint a picture: Sopwith camel with Amraamski against F-15 eagle with Amraam. Case closed. It doesn't matter if the Iranian air force is flying Cessna 150's. Twice the range and similar capabilities equals big big problem. When was the last time this countrie's air force has had to contend with an air to air missle threat? Hmmmmmmm?
• Hmmmmmmmmmmm For the record: how many of the rosy predictions about the Iraq war did you personally believe? well, the one about the government falling quickly and the military being a pushover turned out to be true. everything else was complete fucking bullshit, though. a war against iran will probabaly be alot like the war against iraq. the US military will kick the shit out of the iranian military in no time, but there'll be a fucked up guerilla war that drains our money and resources and doesn't want to end. and that's why it's a bad idea to invade iran, not because of these stupid wwwiii doomsday scenerios that are oddly similiar to the ones that were batted around in the run up to the iraq war. also what kenshin said.
• SNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOPYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY
• I can't see what that linked to, but I'll respond to the general query: "What do you think life is going to be like if the U.S. is stupid enough to attack Iran?" Life will get worse for everyone, and what I'd like to see is a staunch resistance to U.S. imperialism spring up to the point that the nations who refused to be lied to and coerced into aiding the Iraq invasion actually offer some aid to Iraq and Iran in resisting the U.S. I know it won't happen, but I'd love to see the look on that stupid bastard Bush's face when he's told that Germany and China and Spain are going to send troops to the Iran border to prevent another illegal invasion of sovereign lands by a nation with its head so far up its own ass that it actually thinks it's doing the right thing by murdering, torturing, raping and imprisoning people for no reason whatsoever. Also, look for such a stupid invasion to prompt the much talked about next terrorist attacks on U.S. soil. Why would anyone with capability hesitate if the U.S. presents itself as the nation that will flout international law and raze the Middle East for whatever trumped-up reason it can enthusiastically present to the rest of the world who'll either reject the bullshit or buy into it only to reap some potential economic benefits? I'm so goddamned glad I got out of that cesspool. I only wish now that I'd left sooner, back when I knew everything was going to hell but vainly tried to bear out a bad phase. Frankly, I hope the U.S. plunges fully into hell as quickly as possible, both for the few remaining good people there and for the good people in the rest of the world suffering at the hands of the greedy, murderous bastards in the U.S. military and government.
• Further discussion topic: What will happen if some sort of large, winged giant moth creature attacks Uzbekistan in August?
• Don't worry, drjimmy, Uzbekistan's not on the list. *furls wings, plots world peace*
• If anyone still cares about what will happen when the U.S. invades Iran, here's a google cache of a War Nerd column about Iran... For some reason, the original article is not available on the Exile's site.
• I hope it means the beginning of the end of the military industrial complex once and for all. Too much guns, not enough butter. I feel the only real way to defeat an enemy is to win them over to your side. You're not going to do that with 'rape rooms' and imprisoning their fathers, sons, daughters and children while murdering what's left. Hell of a way to 'spread democracy and freedom'.
• What if Gamera attacks us in an angry attempt to free Korzeniowski's clawed frogs? (it could happen ya know)
• Capt. Jean-Luc Pikachu I enjoyed the war nerd column. The concluding question was speculating that Bush and Cheney might be so stupid and foolish one wonders if they might be Al Quaeda moles. Makes more sense than 'patriotic americans spreading freedom and democracy'.
• Surely America has too many guns AND too much butter (well, hydrogenated vegetable fat, at least)
• That's what Iran gets for cheating on their Hindu homework.
• What will happen if some sort of large, winged giant moth creature attacks Uzbekistan in August? Oh, man, the Uzbeks would sooooo lay a smack-down on that moth dude. Why do you think they've been hiding their enormous mutant star goat for so long? They're just waiting for moth guy to try bringing some shit, and then- GOAT TIME!!! It's gonna be awesome.
• kenshin there is just one major flaw in your plan (In a world war, America will be one of the few nations who can feed their people through domestic production.) that in order to produce all that domestic food we will need imported oil, for oil is one THE major ingredient in the fertilization, production and distribution of all that food and oil will not be all that plentiful and/or easy to obtain in the next world war
• "...there'll be a fucked up guerilla war that drains our money and resources and doesn't want to end. and that's why it's a bad idea to invade iran" No, I'm sorry- that's not correct; but thank you for playing. The correct answer to the question, "Why is it a bad idea to invade Iran?" is: because it's evil. Invading other people's countries, killing civilians by the thousands, establishing secret prisons, and torturing people- all the while trying to attach yourself, leechlike, to such noble-but-unrelated-to-your-motives concepts as Freedom and Democracy, is in fact purely evil. It's not merely impractical or counter-productive, though it is those things also. It's utterly destructive of freedom, democracy, diplomacy, and peace everywhere in the world.
• >and oil will not be all that plentiful and/or easy to obtain in the next world war Oil is going to become harder to obtain until it becomes impossible to obtain, with or without a world war. Right now people are hungry elsewhere while the American middle class drives SUVs. Eventually, former members of the American middle class will be hungry while a few American billionaires drive SUVs. You know the Mad Magazine riff on the Lone Ranger where the injuns catch the Lone Stranger and Tonto, and the Lone Stranger says, "Well, Tonto, my faithful companion, looks like we're in a bad spot," and Tonto says, "What you mean 'we', kemosabe?" Kenshin, when you say 'everybody else will starve before WE do,' there are a few very rich people in this country who are looking at you and going, "What you mean 'we', kemosabe?"
• A well planned nuclear attack at the US would not be at population centers as most people fear, but at our agriculture complex. (I believe we are the leading exporter of grain and beef, although Brazil is rapidly moving up as the one of the worlds leading beef exporters. I`ve been to overwhelmed with personal problems to research anything, but I would have started here, http://www.fas.usda.gov/) Anyhow, fallout from one or two nukes in say Kansas, would destroy at least two years of major crop harvest, and the pandemonium would ripple through our economy a thousand times worse than the WTC attacks. We are already on a very fine line of our government imposing martial law, as our cities are exploding in murder rampages from churches to schools. If you think martial law can`t happen overnight, just look at all that has happened in the past five years.(thread derail):) Grizzly bear can run the length of a football field in 6 seconds:) So far, the talk is, that Israel will conduct an air assault against Iran. Whether or not the US will invade is still on the table, but there will come a point where a large majority of countries in a world disgusted with the US and Britains actions, will join together and force them to regress.
• They'll bomb Kansas before NYC? Fascinating, even for a what-if fantasy scenario. in order to produce all that domestic food we will need imported oil No, the Americans will need oil to produce food. They'll only need imported oil if they keep on wasting it during watrime as they do now. Whether you think they're that stupid is up to you. I don't. Kenshin, when you say 'everybody else will starve before WE do,' I'm not American. What is this 'WE' that you think I was talking about?
• >I'm not American. What is this 'WE' that you think I was talking about? Ah- well, I guess when I ASSUMEd, I made an ASS out of U and ME. Or maybe just me. I must have ASSMEd. Point remains- oil is non-renewable; credible projections say there's maybe forty years of it left in the world. American oil fields passed their peak production in the seventies; we considered conservation and energy alternatives briefly, then decided, 'Aw, the hell with it- let's pump a few hundred billion dollars into the military every year and just invade the middle east later on.' But we're a bottomless pit; even if we COULD magically, militarily control ALL the world's oil, we'd just celebrate by quadrupling out consumption. So when you say- >Americans will need oil to produce food. They'll only need imported oil if they keep on wasting it during wartime as they do now -I have to quibble. Sooner or later we will need another plan. We're traveling by train over a ravine. We know the tracks give out at some point and we know it takes a lot of effort, a lot of room, and a lot of time to stop a train. But everything must be okay, right? Somebody would come on TV and tell us if we had to DO something. I'm sure everything will be fine...
• OUR consumption'. Not 'out consumption'. Sorry.
• The correct answer to the question, "Why is it a bad idea to invade Iran?" is: because it's evil. ok, that too.
• what if eleanor roosevelt could fly?
• if you were a hotdog, would you eat yourself?
• Depends on what kind of hot dog I was. Jalapeno cheddar? In a heart beat.
• When was the last time this countrie's air force has had to contend with an air to air missle threat? Although I agree with that, I also feel that air-to-air combat is the least of our worries. If we are stupid enough to attack Iran, the US will lose at least one Navy ship, and the (bare minimum) hundred and fifty souls on board. Having been in the Navy and seen its defenses first-hand, as well as intel sheets on such lovely Chinese imports as the Silkworm ASM, I can reliably predict that American vessels in the Gulf will be well and truly fucked if the shit hits the fan. Mobile missile trucks are far too small and numerous for airstrikes to get them all. And once they lock on, they can have a missile screaming toward a ship at Mach 2 even before the EW operator can yell at the TacO about it. And once it's in the air, skimming the surface, maneuvering, and even jamming (yes, modern anti-ship missiles can do that), there's not a Navy weapon system that is likely to stop it on a good day. Sea Sparrow and the SM-1 are ancient 1960's garbage. Phalanx CIWS is unrealiable at best, and has only a mile to engage (which at Mach 2 is about a second). RAM has about 3 miles, but needs a designation from a search radar (which, remember, is being jammed). This leaves the mighty, state-of-the-art AEGIS system, which can supposedly track satellites in orbit and is about as omniscient as God.... but the missiles on Aegis ships are VLS: they shoot straight up, which means that a sea-skimming hypersonic cruise missile fired from shore a few miles away (in a littoral Tomahawk-launching or gunfire support situation, anyway) is going to go right under the intercepting bird and right into the gut of that fancy destroyer or cruiser. Granted, the sheer amount of deaths if a frigate or DDG goes down are just a drop in the bucket of thousand-plus American war dead already, but that many at once, and all coming from our supposedly invincible Navy, will be quite a shock to our morale. Remember the Cole, anyone?
• Interesting http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread102733/pg1