November 28, 2003

• I posted this because I've been reading MeFi for a loooong time (never posted), and I can see that MeFi is in deep need of revitalization. The quality (and quantity) of posts and comments has gone downhill steadily - MeFi now is a shadow of MeFi, say, 2 years ago. I think a lot of this is due to the fact that new concepts going mainstream have co-opted a lot of what made MeFi so cool. So I think the real problem is that Filter concept is now old. Really old, in Net time. I think we should have a discussion about how to change it. Not MetaTalk style, because that discussion is usually about tiny incremental change, but about radical change - architectural change to the Filter concept itself. As y6 said in the MoFi thread on MeFi 'This could get interesting. MetaFilter culture needs a serious kick in the ass, and this could be it'.
• Excellent question, snakes. In my perfect world I'd make every effort to refuse the introduction of MeTa in MoFi--- I just tire of the ceaseless bickering. I'd assign an OFFSITE ZONE (insert apt jungle term here) so it could be what I need; i.e. a technical site to complement the main one, like the MeFi old days(?). To wit: As I'm a long-time lurker but now a poster (It feels so sweet to write those words), I was having problems with a broken link, and out of the blue, this cool guy vapidave e-mails me with help. Kindness! Maybe the vapidaves in here, with others, could help with those little things in a MonkeyTalk section? We could use some clip art of Peter Tork as the mascot.
• I've had a couple of suggestions via email for things that metafilter has that are probably worth doing here: * An authentication period of 24 hours before being able to comment/post (we've also discussed this here, a couple of days ago and it will be happening for sure, at some point); * A one post per day limit. This may not be necessary at the moment because we've had great quality posts and everyone is enthusiastic about getting mofi going. Later, though, it might be worth doing this as numbers grow and the number of front page posts gets crazy, and the quality may drop over time. As to the purpose of the site: monkeyfilter is/was a place for metafilter lurkers so it made sense that the basic premise would be the same as mefi. At the same time, our unique personalities make us different from mefi. I could imagine in 3+ years mofi would turn out like metafilter is now, just because everyone knows each others' personalities and what sets them off ranting. :) In the meantime, mofi seems to be evolving nicely; in what direction I don't know. Dizzy: your suggestion is a great one. I'll be getting some form of MeTa running (offsite, as you say) where we can interact and offer solutions, as well as post about bugs and fixes. I feel like Matt - already I'm running out of time... (As for icons, I have a cool one that another mofite made that was too large for mofi. I bet if we asked nicely, certainsome1 could repackage it for MonkeyTalk [or The Site That Shall Not Be Named]).
• I wrote a really long reply and deleted it because I overthinking all this is probably counterproductive. The gist of what I was writing is that if we can control ourselves from arguing the merit of posts and the merit of comments and who's feelings got hurt by the questioning of his or her merit, we'll do fine. "Bad" or annoying posts are best ignored, great or interesting posts should be commented on and encouraged. That alone will make a drastic difference. I think that's honestly the most peaceful way to handle this type of blog/forum/thing. I also think that a posting limit is probably wise. This early one per day might not be realistic, but the willy-nilly approach might get out of hand as membership rises.
• Ofcourse, no offense intended, but we'll need a few alternate CSS sheets for the look.
• "Bad" or annoying posts are best ignored, great or interesting posts should be commented on and encouraged. I agree wholeheartedly.
• 1. While we're dreaming, a script that checks to see whether the web address I just entered has already been entered before would be great. You might still get double posts, but at least it wouldn't be to the same pages. 2. Change names of posters at random. Who gets to be tracicle today? 3. Eliminate everyone with more than three letters in their username. This would lead to maximum efficiency in typing. Also, I have size issues. Damn my love for tangy bricks! Were it not for that I could be posting as 1337 |-|@|<3R or some such tripe.
• Umm, how about a Google "search this site" jobbie?
• tracicle
• I'm sure he would be happy to help and vapidave probably would help. But he couldn't program his way out of a wet paper iMac to save his life. Thirded re: Kimberly and dng.
• Also: Cameras for everyone!!!
• Let's play "Guess the MeFite suckup"! (I kid because I'm wildly jealous.)
• One kudos and one request: Tracicle, thank you for not including the user number when you float over a username. (Did that make sense?) If we do create a MoTa or something similar, can one of the guidelines be that it is only for requests and bugs? If someone has a problem with someone else's post or comments or what have you, that person can email the alleged offender directly, rather than creating a MoTa thread about it. What do you guys think?
• Seconded by me. I posted a comment in the first ever thread, along the lines of using my blog as a hideout for bugspotting and the like. It's here. I've been keeping a list there of suggestions, and anyone can offer other ideas in comments. I haven't given it much more thought than that for now.
• Yeah, I tend to agree with you, Sooooz -- MeTa seems to have gotten out of hand. I'm not even sure we need a MonkeyTalk. So far, mixing the internal topic posts with the FPP link posts has worked pretty well. Perhaps we continue with it as is if/until it becomes a problem? Is it possible to color code the different types of messages (FPP vs internal topics)? Would that be helpful in some way?
• After reading tracicle's post (which magically didn't appear until after I posted mine, really) -- it looks like she, in all her magnificalness, has solved our MoTa problem already.
• Hmm, well. I really love MeTa. Where else can you get to know the true nature of the posters/commenters? Is Mofi intended to be a community, or an anonymous. nebulous group? Without a separate venue for arguments and quibbles, will Mofi be any different from a chat room? Seems to me the quibbling will have to go on in the tread, otherwise. And, if the arena is not on this site, how effective will it be? And, where's the spell-checker here?
• path-- I "really love MeTa' too, until the toxins migrated to the front page and ALL of MeFi became MeTa, which seems to leave me with a bad taste after a while. I love quibbling as much as the next Monkey, but my personal goal is to see how civil I can remain within this community--i.e. the arena IS the site. (This is only MY personal thing to work out, mind you, and I know we're still on this lovely honeymoon, but I'd like to see this last..) Oh-- you are on the money with your request for Spell-Check!
• We should solve all our issues by dictatorial fiat. Anyone wanna protest? *waves tesla-truncheon around menacingly*
• I especially like how the new comments will jump you to the middle of a thread - it took me a while to realise that, but Oh! It's neat. And saves time, when looking to see what others have said. And thank you so much, tracicle, for starting this site - new links to procrastinate with! (And such very good ones)
• Here's my superficial/cosmetic request: Can you make the font smaller for the entire site? who's with me here?
• [old codger grump] I like the font just the way it is, thank you very much. Kids today... no consideration... [/old codger grump]
• naxosaxur, you should be able to lower the point size of the font through your browser (on my Mac it's [command] + [-] (and then [command] + [=] to increase the size)), thereby satisfying you and not getting the old codgers in an uproar.
• Naxo: what certainsome1 said. Sincerely, Old Codger
• I would also like to voice my support for a unregulated MeTa. the blog site that has been set up is great, but i object to the idea of directing people to flame posters via email as suggested by Sooooz. My email is listed just like everybody elses, but I hope that it won't be used to send me angry/abusive emails about posts (whenever i find something worth posting). The nice thing about these sorts of conversation on MeTa is that the community can form a more pluralistic code of conduct and admonishment rather than the vigilantism of flaming a poster you don't care for. If that makes sense.
• anyone interested in online communities should read this.
• Bah, vigilantism is the best part. How else to right the wrongs of a totalitarian site, (which we'll have or I'll know the reason why, *again with the electro-truncheon*), than by putting on a mask, some high heel boots, and then having a nice polite conversation with the poster that done you wrong. All you people with your double, or gasp triple digits, always trying to improve the site. It worked fine back in November, it'll work fine now. You young'uns and your change. *mutters*
• Thanks for the article, BigCalm, it's worth reading. To MoTa or not to MoTa? I can understand the desire to avoid some of the less seemly aspects of what's been going on over at MeTa lately. On the other hand, having a public forum for the group to come to a consensus on a given subject could be very valuable over the long term, and as membership continues to grow, it would be nice to have a place to post things that aren't "lavender-worthy" but nonetheless worth posting. How about a MoTa for bugs, requests, and miscellaneous items? I'm in complete agreement with Kimberly that bad or annoying posts are best ignored. Can we have a MoTa that expressly discourages trolls and whiners? On preview: Hey Pez, be nice to us double-digits. You'll need us to show the four-digits the ropes when they show up...next week.
• Four digits!? *massive coronary*
• omfg! *tries not to think about four-digitness* *also hopes this comment doesn't go halfway up the page where no one will understand it*
• I honestly think the best way to get rid of trolls is to ignore them. We of course need a policy for when some cock tries to pee all over the site, but I think a little self-control will go a long way with people who just want to start a screaming match rather than start a discussion.
• I miss cock. What a prolific and energetic poster. Now it's all polite discussion and well-placed comments. Bah.
• Hang in there, tracicle, we're right here with you to see MoFi through the 'Four Digit Frenzy'. [Cue 'Mission Impossible' theme in background.] By that time the Cabal should be well-established, no? Languagehat, you have made my leeeeetle tiny world a brighter place so many times over the last year and now I get to say it to you, post to post: I *heart* you.
• *congratulates himself on being the last to squeeze in as a 2-digiter
• Aww, shucks! Thanks! (I suppose I should add, for the benefit of future four-digit MoFites who have no idea what I was referring to in my previous comment and might take me seriously: "cock" was some jerk who posted many identical goatse links, and I don't miss him at all. If you have no idea what "goatse" is... count your blessings.)
• Did I hear the word "goatse"??? Languagehat, go to the bathroom and wash your modem out with soap this instant! March, young man!
• I thought it might be too late, but this thread seems to be going strong, and so I will add my two cents (1.5 cents american, 2.4 cents NZD): I really like Monkeyfilter. I liked reading metafilter as a non-member, got most of the links I ever procrastinated with there. But though I read long enough for memberships to open for the last time, and close again, I never really had a driving urge to join. It existed as an already formed community, an interesting, but crowded one. But Monkeyfilter feels smaller, softer. (Maybe it's the lavender background. How could anyone possibly ever flame when looking at a lavender background? It's so soothing.) But it's also a community that is beginning to form, where you don't have to worry about anyone crying doublepost, or making comments about your user number (even if I do have a whole three digits). You can find a place here and the links are fresh and new. But I do have one suggestion - perhaps instead of Mofites, we could just call each other monkeys? That would be so cool, to be a Monkey
• jb - you silly Monkey!
• I'm just pleasantly surprised that nobody's suggested "MoFo" yet. (D'oh!)
• We could go with Mojo, except that there is only one ...(dramatic pause)...Mojo Jojo! (Warning = Second link is a Real Audio video clip of about one minute, probably painful on dial up, but still classic Mojo)
• jb, that "there is only one" line is the best ever. EVER.
• But I'm afraid I can't take the credit. I love that episode, but haven't seen it in so long that I had forgotten that scene. (I know - shame, shame) It was pure, beautiful serendipity.
• Personally, I think we should have some variety of "off-topic" page where people can talk to, and get to know, each other. Maybe with even less direction than MeTa. That way, we can become a community, with people and synergy and team-building exercises and paintball and Hawaiian Fridays. Uh... But with less of everything I mentioned above.
• I'm picturing it as something like the Fight Club testicular cancer support group. Okay, who has man-boobs?
• *all the men in the room back off to dark corners and whistle, tunelessly*
• Okay, who has man-boobs? I do. Also, I look pregnant. You can just tell I'm a programmer can't you. Damn snack machine, I curse thee...
• omfg! *tries not to think about four-digitness* Heh. We're safely into the 4 digit region now. Wonder if we'll ever hit 5 digits?
• Oh good. Now I can picture dng with manboobs. So glad I visited.
• Don't let the manboobs slow you down nick.