March 24, 2005

• Thanks HW, an interesting read. Had me thinking that to an extent most of us on the privileged side of an us-and-them (or maybe better inside and out) relationship don't like to spend too long considering who's paying the price for our relative luxury. Although today the reliance of the consumer societies of the developed world on disparities with the poor who provide so much of our resources and manufactures at a knock-down price isn't of the extreme order of Germany back then we do tolerate practices and terms of trade for others that we've long abolished for ourselves.
• Um... Duh. This isn't a new "theory;" it's pretty much accepted common knowledge for anyone who's studied fascism. But hey, I guess it's a good read for anyone who hasn't...
• Actually, sorry for the snark above. However, the only real difference in this story is how Germans are viewing German history, and that's a significant change. But outside of Germany, this is all stuff that any PoliSci teacher would be able to tell you (aside maybe from the argument that Germany couldn't stop its outward march due to economic Ponzi-ism). Hitler came to power because he vigorously opposed Versais and Weimar, and because he promised to restore the dignity and high standard of living that had been lost by Germany after WWI. I mean, that's where the Volkswagon comes from (and for Hitler, it was all about Die Volk and Die Blöd).
• Das Volk und das Blut? Blöd is actually "dumb", but that works too. did I just screw up your pun?
• Another view is expressed in Victor Klemperer's diaries "I Shall Bear Witness". Klemperer was a German Jew with a gentile wife, which for most of the war spared his life, but not the various laws passed against Jews. In his writings, he mentions repeatedly what he hears on the street, both for and against the regime, and the actions of officials and ordinary Germans who show both kindness and brutality to him while he wears the star. I haven't read the third volume which deals mainly with the postwar situation in East Germany, but the first two are interesting, if somewhat dry. Some excerpts.
• First off, I am very happy that this thread does not yet contain the word "bush." I am very proud of you all for the restraint you're showing. Second, I have talked to a lot of people who honestly believe that the average German was "just evil." I find that a little ridiculous. Nazi Germany is a perfect example of what happens when good people see evil being done and stand by and do nothing. I know its a vast oversimplification, but I think part of it was their national politeness- questioning authority simply wasnt done, and for the most part still isnt. At least Germany has made efforts to acknowledge and atone for its past, unlike Japan, who are STILL having trouble even admitting their crimes.
• Patita- It was a bit of a pun... But shouldn't it still be Die? I mean, those are collective nouns, and my memory says that collectives always take the plural/feminine article...
• where lately the trend has been to accept that Germans, too, suffered under Hitler and under the Allied bombing raids... Aly is now ... insisting that every single German benefited from Hitler's culture of killing At least this book came out at the right time to head off the above trend. The Allied bombing campaign certainly entered the realm of brutality, but the Germans can never excuse their own actions if they are to avoid a similar path in the future and remain a healthy society. Something they generally have seemed to do a very, very good job of dealing with of the last half century. Unlike apparently Japan, where it's almost impossible to publish a book simply chronicling Japanese actions during the war, let alone motivations and culpabilities.
• Some believe that Germany has gone too far the other way. They are so afraid of their past that they overcompensate and have become hyper-politically correct. Germany is now a haven for ultra-radical Muslim extremists, many of whom left Turkey because their extreme fundamentalism wasn't tolerated there. A recent string of honour killings of young Muslim women who have disgraced their families is hardly being addressed by German authorities, for fear of being called xenophobic.
• Good article, HW. Part of the immense attractiveness of Hitler was also the contrast between the prosperity the Nazis promised and the disastrous Depression-era hyperinflation that had recently decimated the middle-class. I watched "Triumph of the Will" recently, the Nazi propaganda film of the Nuremberg rallies. In it, Hitler also promised something else: Peace.
• js: I wasn't sure, so I checked in the dictionary. very glad it was a pun, a bit ashamed I didn't see it until I'd pulled it apart. damn literal mindedness!
• Bush.
• "He also ensured that even in the last days of the war not a single German went hungry. Despite near-constant warfare, never once during his 12 years in power did Hitler raise taxes for working class people. He also -- in great contrast to World War I -- particularly pampered soldiers and their families, offering them more than double the salaries and benefits that American and British families received." [...] "[I]magine if today's beleaguered government of German Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder could offer jobs and higher benefits to the masses. "No one would ask where the money came from and they would directly win the next election." [...] "About 95 percent of the German population benefited financially from the National Socialist system." This sounds like a vision of "democracy" Americans could get behind. We'd particularly like the part about increasing benefits and services without raising taxes. What's wrong with American politicians?
• Can I call Godwin? Definitely kidding - interesting article.
• Hey yeah, to play the devil's advocate: who wouldn't vote for prosperity?
• I am so glad Bush is president so this could never happen here. Freedom is on the march.
• who wouldn't vote for prosperity? Those unwilling to sell theirs souls, values and freedoms for a bucket of KFC.
• who wouldn't vote for prosperity The Jews, mostly. And Patita- You're right. I guess Volk is an exception to the rule. (Now I've got Laibach stuck in my head: "Ein Fleisch, ein Blut, ein wahrer Glaube....")
• Those unwilling to sell theirs souls, values and freedoms for a bucket of KFC With Prosperity (TM), you will *never* have to eat the KFC, the big Mac or go to a Walmart ever again. Yes, indeed, Prosperity means your income will be such that you won't have to mix with those low-lifes at the burger dives. You drive the big car, in a giant-sized house. Yes, your house is in fact big enough that you can drive around inside.
• You may find yourself, living in a shotgun shack. And you may find yourself in another part of the world. And you may find yourself behind the wheel of a large automobile And you may ask yourself, "Well, is it because of the economic miracle brought on by seperating myself from the lowlifes?"
• ...and You may tell yourself: This is not my greasy burger, These are not my greasy fries. And you may say to yourself... "MY GOD, WHAT HAVE AH DONE?!"
• Disney's view.