March 22, 2005

• Goddamit. I'm not in any kind of mood to be depressed today. Can we all concentrate and make this not have happened, please? Goddamit.
• Additional info: I searched a little and I found the tribe's website. They may not have the best living conditions, but at least they've got the "best Bingo action in NW Minnesota!" The site has a forum, and I can't help but wonder if our shooter posted at some point. I'm looking as we speak, but without a name any discovery will be highly unlikely.
• Well, I suppose if I wanted information I should have just gone straight to the source: "The boy's grandfather was a veteran law enforcement officer for the Red Lake Police Department, Daryl "Dash" Lussier." So we know the name of the grandfather who died, and the boy's last name, provided this was his paternal grandfather.
• How well I remember Columbine. I keep thanking God I didn't have a kid there. Because it will happen, who cares what the victims' names are?
• .
• . Yes, absolutely. Not much to be said, because it won't stop. It's another variable our kids have to face. What can we say to them?
• We can say that school shootings are an extremely rare event and turn the television off. This is a tragedy but at the same time, kids are much more at risk from suicide and bad driving than they are from random school shootings. In fact you are much more likely to win the lottery than to have your kid get shot at school. There's hundreds of lottery winners in a year but school rampages happen, what, once every few months? Getting too preoccupied with this issue condemns us unnnecessarily to a life of fear.
• "Local residents blamed poverty, discrimination, and endless cycles of drug and alcohol abuse, where gangs often offered the only refuge for aimless youngsters." Um, no I disagree. A society with lax gun controls is the real culprit here. Oh sorry, I forgot- "But it's in the constitution."
• Given the debates that raged over the concealed carry law I wonder how this is going to play out. I'm sure the gun advocates will say that this tragedy had nothing to do with it. But this is the second school shooting in 18 months in the state.
• So sad. So stupid. Why can't "adults" keep the damn guns out of the hands of kids? What part of "lock 'em up" don't these people understand?
• Shit happens. And more shit will happen tomorrow.
• oklo: just hope that you're not part of it. Having "shit happen" is a hard way to grow up.
• Looks like he tried to shoot everybody in one particular class. I wonder what class it was ?
• Bondurant, you can't always blame gun control laws. They had nothing to do with this situation. The guns were in the house because his grandfather was a veteran member of the local police force. It's actually the grandfather's own fault. He should have kept the weapons out of reach of the boy, especially if he wasn't the most stable individual. Please don't skip to the "blame society" phase until you've got all the facts.
• .
• Just so you know, I'm not an NRA member or anything. I just like getting the facts straight. I'm sorry if I've offended any of you.
• Panleth: Did you get this from your link? "The boy's grandfather was a veteran law enforcement officer for the Red Lake Police Department, Daryl "Dash" Lussier." because the name isn't there now.
• Getting too preoccupied with this issue condemns us unnnecessarily to a life of fear. Storybored wins. Using this tragedy to push an anti-gun position (which I generally agree with) is as lame and dishonest as using it to push an anti-videogame or anti-rockmusic agenda. Have fun.
• While I'm all for certain kinds of gun control legislation, I'd have to agree that it's a peripheral issue here. If he hadn't gotten his hands on a gun, it's quite possible his distress and anger would've come out in some other way.
• And now? More metal detectors. More zombie story writers arrested. More reaction. More change. It never ceases to amaze me. The power of one person.
• Looks like his name was Jeff Lussier...
• Maybe he just decided with no real evidence that the people he went to school with had weapons of mass destruction. That's justification for shooting the place up isn't it?
• Panleth, actually I can blame gun control laws. OK so this kids Grandfather was a cop- so why should this make it any easier for him to get the gun? Why do cops need two handguns and a shotgun? And why were they at home? If he needed them because he was a cop then why aren't they kept at the station when he isn't on shift. I do agree that it does appear that Grandad was at fault but as I said, the guns either shouldn't have been there in the first place or should've been properly housed Gun control doesn't just cover the accessability of purchasing guns- it also covers proper storage etc, so this IS a gun control issue. Chrominance, I don't see this as a periperal issue at all. True his distress and anger would've come out in another way but short of a bomb, what else could have caused this amount of damage. Using this tragedy to push an anti-gun position (which I generally agree with) is as lame and dishonest as using it to push an anti-videogame or anti-rockmusic agenda. Have fun. Wendell, The two are totally different. Whilst videogames/rock music (questionably) are linked to promoting these thoughts, it is the access to a firearm which can easily make them a reality- with devastating consequences.
• Shit happens. And more shit will happen tomorrow. Dicks happen. And more *yawn* tediously predictable hipster cynicism will happen tomorrow. Whoo.
• Oh and his name was Jeff Wiese.
• Somehow I think that this story will never receive close to the attention that the Columbine story did. As far as many people are concernced these victims are not real people, real sypathetic, or mostly, not close enough to home, because their skin color and income differs. I hope I am wrong.
• At least it will push the Schiavo fiasco out of the heavy rotation. /not hipster cynicism, just the usual kind
• Introducing Jeff Weise. Post by Todesengel on Apr 19th, 2004, 11:41pm By the way, I'm being blamed for a threat on the school I attend because someone said they were going to shoot up the school on 4/20, Hitlers birthday, and just because I claim being a National Socialist, guess whom they've pinned?
• moneyjane wrote, "Dicks happen." Lucky for you, huh? ;) Zanshin wrote, "Having "shit happen" is a hard way to grow up." That's life - for everyone - at some point. Learn from it and move on - or don't.
• oklo, how does it feel to be so fucking above it all?
• Wonderful.
• tellurian, that is some very disturbing stuff right there. I guess we'll be seeing that in the news soon enough. And, can we avoid this becoming a flamewar? Maybe everyone should back off a teeny bit. It's a shitty thing that happened, everyone reacts differently. However, if you're going to make trivial comments when most others are having a serious discussion, maybe it's better to take it elsewhere, oklo.
• Do not feed the trolls.
• I don't think tracicle was being a troll, she was just offering her opinion.
• I suppose the gun people's argument goes along the lines of, "if every kid had a gun, nothing like this could ever happen." Why do we kill each other?
• It's well established that teen suicide is 'catching', often spawning tragic imitators. I wonder if school shootings are really a variation on this trend - a combination of teen suicide with a modern tendency to blame all our troubles on others?
• hey oklo, tracicle is the admin, kiddo. don't be fuckin' with her now. the banhammer is ouchie. (why shades of daisy_may in this thread? fucksocks.)
• Monkeyfilter: I don't think tracicle was being a troll.
• Here's a cache of the nazi forum mentioned in the news. Native americans and nazism just doesn't sound like a good combination to me. And why does these things happen so often in the US? Can the Americans really blame the rest of the world for fearing their culture, and for fighting against its proliferation?
• I'm going to rant for a second, I'm sorry. I see this from an angle that apparently nobody else on earth does. Like so: Pay. Attention. To. Your. Children. Not because they are killers in the making. Not because you are afraid of them. But because this stuff does not often come out of nowhere. Sometimes it does, but more often you have the Columbine kids writing up elaborate plans, or you have kids plotting suicide by themselves because they think nobody gives a good goddamn about them even if someone does. Nobody noticed this? Beforehand? Nobody? I find that a little hard to believe, unless people go around so insulated from everything that they just don't think about it. Teenagers can be slightly crazy. It comes with the territory. I was. But pay attention anyway. I get so, so angry with the parents. Not that they intentionally groomed their little monsters to be... well, monsters, but because it seems like they're just not looking. You're parents. It's your job. No, not just when they're little and cute. When they're big and surly and incomprehensible and listening to music you don't understand. You're still parents. Your job is not done yet. Pay attention. Rant over. And I know that that factor doesn't cover everything; it's just one factor that nobody seems to consider, ever, and I find that frustrating. It's tragic and I wish it didn't happen. Not even once.
• You have all provided so much more information and insight on this. Thank you. This was a very angry and troubled youth, with an intelligence and ability to read, discern and write so well. It makes it all more tragic, IMO. Compounding the losses. I see no point in seeking someone to blame, although it is an automatic reaction to such losses. As is trivialising trauma to avoid it's impact. Learning and changing are the best to be hoped for from such as this.
• Post by Todesengel on Apr 19th, 2004, 11:41pm Todesengel is German for "death angel."
• Google cache (The real URL is this: "http://66.102.9.104/search?q=cache:Dlr86foA5hcJ:www.nazi.org/current/forum/YaBB.cgi%3Fboard%3Dnativeamerican%3Baction%3Dprint%3Bnum%3D1079672948+todesengel+nativenazi&hl=en", which I thought might be a tad on the long side.) Link stolen from SA. (Hush! Don't tell them.)
• Damn! OK, now I see it.
• Yes, it's happened again. Someone posted an FPP without so much as a hint as to what the post concerns. Grrr!
• I shudder to think what SA is saying about this. They're probably thrilled. (dx, I think it'd be a tragedy even if the shooter were stupid and wrote in chatspeak. I don't think smart people's lives are intrinsically worth more.)
• Wurwilf: Some people shouldn't be parents. Some parents are good parents, but something goes horribly wrong. I know great kids with parents that are total SOBs. I know little teenage monsters with parents who are wonderful. Some kids outgrow their monsterhood and become great adults. Some don't. I wish we had some answers.
• Paying attention to your kids would do more than any gun control ever would. If you are taught how to properly use a firearm, you would never go and do something like this. Mostly, because you'll respect the power of a firearm.
• Indian reservation Nazi. Okaaaay ....
• Paying attention to your kids would do more than any gun control ever would. I agree, js. But why would a responsible gun owner be opposed to making it harder for the irresponsible to own guns? If nothing else, they're giving the law-abiding citizens a bad name.
• cabingirl, from what I know of the NRA (my dad is a lifetime member), they don't really believe that it's about the irresponsible. They believe that their guns are going to be taken away, or that it's a slippery slope toward having their guns taken away. So they fight it. There's also the "criminals are going to find a way, so you are only punishing law-abiding citizens" angle.
• Wurlilf, you are right about my comment. Now I shall have to ponder on why his capacities bothered me so. Perhaps because his own potential seems to have been part of what lead to his final mental disarray. About twenty years ago, right here in Canada, I had to deal with a fifteen year old who was apprehended marching, in fatigues, towards a shopping centre where he was going to use the rifle he was carrying to start shooting. Although that case was eventually resolved it has never failed to haunt me when these things happen. Another youth in a state of total despair under all the bravado.
• People who are opposed to guns are opposed to guns because -- among other reasons -- they feel that massacres like this are less likely to occur if people are not allowed to own guns. Saying that these anti-gun people should not be allowed to use this incident to argue their point is absolutely absurd. If the US never invaded Iraq and Saddam Hussein nuked Israel a year or two later, are you saying that those pro-war people would not be allowed to say, "I told you so?"
• Something I noticed, and which makes me a bit more sad than the event itself, is that CNN.com and other news organizations seem to consider the Michael Jackson trial and the Terri Schiavo thing more important; more news worthy. Those priorities and their supposed newsworthiness seem pathetically missaligned with the rest of the events in the news, including this shooting.
• You can use actual incidents to argue whatever you want, but it doesn't make much of a point to use imaginary scenarios like Iraq nuking Israel to bolster your argument.
• did not the NativeNazi steal his grandfather's weapons? so how are "massacres like this are less likely to occur if people are not allowed to own guns"?
• He had a live journal. Courtesy of blacklite
• Good work blacklite. The story of Little Big Nazi here just gets worse and worse. " I'm nothin' but your average Native American stoner. I'm mellow half the time, mostly natural, but mostly drug induced as well. " I used to like to think " well - if they're high all the time at least they're not violent " There's no Nazi anything on his LJ.
• Er Blogrot your logic is flawed. Someone owned the gun to begin with. If people weren't allowed to own guns he wouldn't have been able to steal one to begin with.
• The Nazi angle may have validity, but in keeping with some of the opinions on this thread-- if you look past the obvious irony of a native American possibly seeking/having affiliation or even affinity for such a group-- doesn't it occur that it's exactly those kind of groups that make a point of connecting with the youth in our society... giving them a sense of community, of legitimacy, and of power? [shudder ]
• Wurwilf: YES YES YES! I'm going to go back to an old cliche here: "Guns don't kill people. People kill people." Yes, if he didn't have access to the guns he would not have been able to create such carnage. But the problem is not in the guns, it is in the children. To me, the real tragedy of Columbine was that no one ever seemed to ask WHY these kids felt pushed to mass murder. This isn't a thing where they wake up one day, totally looney, and decide over thier corn flakes to start cappin' fools. There is something seriously wrong with these poor kids, and we need to find out what it is. If you take thier guns away, maybe they will only kill themselves instead of a bunch of classmates. Maybe they'll only get one or two with a knife or poison or some-such. Doesn't matter. One is still one too many. /angry, fed-up rant ...On the other hand, I am a firm believer that our warlike tendencies are a population control method.
• Prudent gun control is an issue here but not the only one. If we consider the suicide angle, the CDC names "Easy access to lethal methods" as one on a list of 15 risk factors for suicide, so tightening access makes sense. But at the same time, there are 14 other factors. The following stats are interesting : Suicide rate in U.S.: ~11 per 100,000 people/year Suicide rate in Canada: ~13 per 100,000 Suicide rate in France: ~20 per 100,000 Guns clearly aren't the only factor at work.
• Bondurant- And if no one was ever allowed to leave their house, then massacres like this wouldn't happen. Look, simply put, most gun owners are responsible people. And, frankly, there's something to be said for an armed populace. At the very base, rights only exist if they are defended, and firearms are possibly the most direct method of defending rights. There are too many good things in this country that would not have come about if not for armed resistance (the labor movement being the last great example). Further, not to quote Michael Moore as an absolute authority, but you'll note that Canada has roughly equivalent gun ownership (and Switzerland has more per capita). These massacres don't seem to happen there. Why not? If it's just the guns, then they should have equal or greater numbers of per capita gun deaths. I'm not one who's going to stand against things like the ammunition registration bank or the idea of keeping databases on who does, in fact, own guns. But the simplistic "GUNS IS TEH BAD WE MUST FORBADE THEM!!11oneone!!" isn't cutting it with me. I know too many people who own guns and are just fine with them. Much like I don't think that all alcohol should be illegal, even though there are plenty of alcoholics and there are plenty of kids who fuck up their lives with alcohol. Maybe if people stopped being treated like they needed a nanny by people like you, they'd be a little more responsible and we wouldn't need the level of social regulation that we have.
• Guns are here to stay. You can't uninvent something or wish that knowledge away. I have no problems with regulations, there are already hundreds. Besides how could they possibly round up all guns? House to house searches like in Iraq? I don't think that would go over too well. Its something people have to learn to live with. The kids journal sounds more like he's a Deadhead than a Nazi. Accessability is definately part of the problem but there is a whole lot more going on here. Also I live about five miles from where Kip Kinkle lived so this discussion has been done around here a lot.
• Suicide rate in U.S.: ~11 per 100,000 people/year Isn't this not only about suicide but about the capacity to take out twenty people with you when you stamp off out of here? It's a lot harder to do with a knife.
• Wolof: you bet. I'm just saying that for the issue of suicide, guns aren't the biggest deciding factor.
• What kind of music did he listen to?
• ...Canada has roughly equivalent gun ownership [as the US]... Nope definitely not. You folks in the U.S. have twice the level of gun ownership as us folks in the frozen North. The percentage of households in Canada with at least one firearm is 22%. In the U.S. it's 48% according to this government paper . The other difference is in the ownership of handguns. 95% of gun owners in Canada have rifles not handguns. Now here's the juice: For 1987-96, the average homicide rate was 8.8 per 100,000 people in the U.S., compared to 2.3 per 100,000 in Canada. I agree that outright gun bans aren't the answer, nope. I'd say instead that American society's got a weird problem with fear disguised as the "need to defend rights with firearms".
• I'd heard that Moore had screwed up his stats - good on you StoreyBored, for actually looking it up. Also, if you have a Crown, you don't need guns. The Crown exists to protect us from the tyranny of the Parliament, and vice versa. It's a strange sounding system, but it seems to work, so long as no pesky Parliaments go cutting the Crowns (and the rest of the head) off.
• Only, I'm having trouble understanding these stats:

  Almost all Canadian households with a firearm possessed a long gun (95.1%). These households represented 19.2% of all Canadian households. In contrast, 12% of Canadian gun owning households possessed a handgun and this represented 2.3% of all Canadian households. Only about 2.2% of Canadian households owned both a handgun and a long gun.

  So, if 95% of gun-owning households own a long gun, and 12% own a hand gun - how is it that only 2.2% own both?
• No, 2.2% of all households own both. Nearly every handgun-owning households (2.3% of all households) is a dual-wielding household.
• Suicide rate in U.S.: ~11 per 100,000 people/year Suicide rate in Canada: ~13 per 100,000 Suicide rate in France: ~20 per 100,000 I'm not at all convinced that these stats can be compared in any useful way. I believe there are different factors involved in each country. For example, it is well accepted that handgun availability, obviously highest in the US, leads to greater suicide deaths. This is not saying that gun culture promotes suicide, but simply because a gun is so quick and comparatively foolproof in its application. Alternatively, suicide stats are pushed up dramatically in Canada, with it's low overall population, because of the high rates in impoverished remote northern native communities. Neither of the above reasons would seem to apply to France, which strongly suggests there are non-comparable factors at play in each country. Apparently there are also problems with different standards influencing international reporting rates.
• Moore did not want to make his movie an anti-gun movie. He knows that won't go over in this country. So he made the focus be that the US has a "culture of fear." To do this, he had to dismiss the notion that the US had more gun crime because the US had too many guns. Otherwise, too many guns would be the obvious explanation and no one would take him seriously because people in the US love their guns. So he found a country that had a lot of guns (Canada) and told us that they have very little gun violence. His quick conclusion that was that the amount of guns must not be the determining factor, and he moved on. As I watched the movie and without knowing the stats, I almost rose from my seat and yelled, "Bullshit!" While I didn't know the statistics of gun ownership in Canada vs. the US, I was pretty damn sure that handguns make up a much, much smaller percentage of guns in Canada. So maybe it is the guns afterall. Moore doesn't like to follow the facts. He likes to find the facts that take him to where he wants to go. And that is fine. But he presents his movies as though he is following some trail of evidence. He is not.
• I'd heard that Moore had screwed up his stats - good on you StoreyBored, for actually looking it up. You're welcome! I had always been curious myself about the numbers. Also, if you have a Crown, you don't need guns. The Crown exists to protect us from the tyranny of the Parliament, and vice versa. That's an interesting argument i've never heard before. I'm not sure what to think of it. In theory that's what it's supposed to do but in practice, the Crown's representative, the Governor-General just rubber stamps everything. The two times that i can think of violation of rights (the War Measures Act in 1970 during the Quebec crisis, and the WWII incarceration of Japanese Canadians), the Crown was uh, right there, doing diddley.
• Nal, StoryBored, Bernockle- Though it's older (yours from '98, mine from '94), the numbers from my government are far different than those from Canada (and yours gives no cites for methodology). According to the most current survey I could find, it's about 35% and on the decline. Further, countries with higher ownership of guns (again, Switzerland and Israel) have lower per capita gun deaths. Oh, and that vast majority of gun owners own a) more than one gun (with a tiny percentage of people accounting for most gun ownership here) and b) own a rifle if they own a handgun.
• There are too many good things in this country that would not have come about if not for armed resistance (the labor movement being the last great example) Hmmmmmmm. I'm thinking that one of the great things that happened in your country was the Civil Rights movement of the 1960s. Led by Martin Luther King, who advocated non-violence, who got shot and killed....
• The idea that we need guns to be able to overthrow the government is completely irrelevant now. Back when that argument originated, civilians could own comparable weapons to the military. For us to be able to overthrow the government now, we would have to be able to own things a bit more serious than guns. While I am at it, I find the protection argument to be equally invalid. Pepper spray, stun guns and other non-lethal weapons are just as good at stopping people in their tracks as lethal weapons. And a lot less people die. If gun manufacturers had a financial incentive to do research and development on non-lethal weapons, then the US would have the best personal protection weapons in the world. And a lot less people would die.
• OK. Let me first say that I am a pacifist. I spent most of my life thinking that guns are bad, handguns in particular. There is a big difference in intent and application between a hunting rifle and a semi-auto pistol. On the other hand, the Second Amendment is specifically there so the American populace will always be properly armed in case we need to overthrow a tyrannical government. The current adminsitration has made me want to go out and buy guns...
• A correction to my post, it looks like the kid had his own .22 to off his grandfather and his boyfriend. He then stole his grandfather's (who was a cop) service pistol, shotgun, and bodyarmor and used those to shoot up and kill the remainder.
• boyfriend? You're way off here, blogRot. The boy shot his grandfather, his grandfather's longtime girlfriend (with whom he shared a 13-year-old child) at their home. He then took the weaponry, body armor and car to his school, where he shot the unarmed security guard to the school, a teacher, and then ten students. (Five students survive from that group, with two of the survivors still in critical condition from severe head trauma.) The boy then exchanged gunfire with authorities and ran into a classroom, where he killed himself. Full details on all aspects are available at the Minneapolis Star-Tribune (www.star-tribune.com; if you need a logon, use hertz1; pswd melanie) As for the gun debate, I'm a gun owner who never thought I'd own guns. As it is, I have a gun safe that weighs over 400 pounds, and everything is LOCKED UP. The holes in the system are aggregate: parents too busy to properly monitor their children; purchasing waiting periods that are far too short, and lack of proper background checks; availability of gun types that serve no legitimate purpose for the average citizen... the list goes on. Trying to lay fault on just one societal doorstep does not work. That said, it would be great if we could get all of the relevant parties to the table, and start a dialogue when everyone is NOT so emotionally ragged, as we are now. Surely some sort of compromise among all parties must be possible.
• " They had me pegged as a school shooter " Guess they were right for a change.
• arch1, good point about keeping guns locked up and unloaded. I had a friend who, while she did indeed keep her guns in the most secure way possible, led her children to believe that the guns were unlocked, loaded, safety off, and if they touched them they would DIE. An interesting, and for her effective, way to teach her kids about gun safety. Also, they spent enough time at a shooting range for the kids the know the capabilities of a gun. I think that's a good idea: after seeing a cantelope exoplode in a gooey spray, one gets the idea that guns are dangerous.
• the numbers from my government are far different than those from Canada (and yours gives no cites for methodology). According to the most current survey I could find, it's about 35% and on the decline. Good link, JS. Verrry interesting. It seems the way these gun ownership stats are gathered are via polls(presumably over the phone). So that statistic cited in the Canadian gov'ts website I posted as well as the stats in the US study are recklessly incomplete. There should have been some statement of confidence interval at the very least. As well we're at the mercy of their sampling algorithm. Grrrr. Inherently unreliability. Also I imagine some bonafide gun owners (some of the more paranoid members of the NRA for example) would not tell a stranger over the phone whether they owned guns. Harumph. What other stats can we use here? Perhaps ammunition sales?
• StoryBored, I like what you are saying, although I see a couple of things that I think may be skewering your theory during discussion. First, as is shown by this article... /in a 'religous tolerance' site, sorry, but it's quick and comprehensive. ...the rate of suicide in Canada can be terribly high, not just due to guns but many other factors, including lower population base to factor in with such large incidence. Our suicide rates can be spiked by isolated incidents, such as this, in our reserves, in any year. It would also be more straight forward, IMO, to compare suicide rates, per capita, where the 'offender a/k/a victim,' has not only used a gun, but has, so to say, taken family and others out of the picture, with him/her. /remembers I Don't Like Mondays... Wasn't that the first big one? / but I have to admit that I still have my old '22, from when I moved into the city, for the first time, in '98. /bet gran'ma has one around for 'critter' emergencies, as well...
• /bet gran'ma has one around for 'critter' emergencies, as well. Actually, DX, I DON'T like guns. I don't really own a gun, I leave that to Mr. BlueHorse. But we do have them in the house, unloaded, locked up, ammo hidden. I'd prefer Mr. B take care of any 'critter' emergencies, but what has to be done, has to be done, and I did have to put down a lovely black pony one time that had broken a leg while no one else was available. If Mr. B weren't around, I'd own one, but reluctantly and with great respect.
• Nal, Dxlifer: Yup, there's more to the suicide stats than just guns. The innu issue is clearly a factor for Canada's numbers. And France's numbers are even worse. As far as i know France doesn't even have a gun culture. Don't know if there are any stats on suicide-homicides though which is what we were originally talking about before i took the detour :-)
• Dxlifer: I'm curious to know how you would actually use the .22 if it ever came down to it... I have no guns but a friend took me to a gun range once and i know it's a lot trickier to use these things than it looks...
• How I would use it? Do you mean other than site, squeeze trigger and check results. Or do you mean what I would use it for? It was often possible to see rabid foxes where I lived, which was forested and on a lakefront, and very isolated. It was also to be ready for any wild animal that might be injured, beyond redemption, perhaps on the dirt road. Or trap injuries. Such is life when out of the cities. There was no collection or rescuing of wild animals by any authority, unless rabies is suspected, or an offence. I only used it twice, both times on nasty roosters when I totally lost it. They both survived, though. I felt so bad I nursed them back to health. Then the fucks just started attacking me again. There's something about birds.... Really, though, I was taught to shoot a '22 and rifle when I was a child, as a necessary skill for such purposes. Well...not the roosters. I also did a research placement with police and was taught to shoot a '38. I scored in the 90's on my second time with a hand-gun, ever. The fellows waiting to shoot after me, excused themselves to the sergeant and said they would have to come back another time. *snicker*
• Dx: Head in one hand, body in the other. Twist well. Place in crockpot with onion, celery, carrots, and potatoes. No guilt.
• GramMa, you forgot to pluck 'em chickens. *spits out tailfeathers*
• Dx: I don't actually know anyone who owns a gun (weird eh?) so I was curious as to how you thought about it and when you would use it. 90s with a .38 eh? Impressive! I fired a .22 and a Glock 9mmm at my one time on the gun range. The .22 was manageable but i couldn't help noticing the tiny little hole it made. Overall i think i would rather swing a baseball bat if it ever came down to self defense, (not that it would here in Safety City with <10 homicides/year in a city of 1,000,000). The Glock on the other hand is some serious business but darn it if i could hardly put even one close to the bullseye.
• It was an old long-barrel '38, I must admit. I had trouble with the stubnose. The really good part is that I have really bad eyesight, and cheated by closing my bad eye. granma, I was so mad at that rooster I could have plucked it and then shot it. I was going to leave it out back for the coyotes.
• no comment.
• no comment.
• Crackpot: If you have nothing to say, then just say it, will ya?
• But he keeps saying it, anyway, granma.