February 17, 2005

• If only those psychically-skilled people had been around to help with the aftermath of most of the social gatherings I attended in my teen-age years.
• Oh dear. Weren't we wondering about a definition of "moonbat" a few threads back? You may have found it.
• I have no aversion to non-traditional spiritual practices, but the degree of equivocation in that article is odd. For example: Rituals are a way to connect you with particular Goddesses, Gods, spirits, energies and cycles. I mean, those aren't all the same thing. How much can you have in common, in terms of a spiritual experience, with someone trying to contact a beloved relative (for example) if you're trying to invoke Thor, or some unpronounceable Elvish deity? What if you're praying to the Divvil and the human next to you is praying to Jesus Christ? What if you're trying to dig on some sentient plasmoid pink laser beams and homie next door is straight up offering hecatombs to Osiris?
• It's all codswallop invented by some faux-druids in the 19th century and now practiced by leery, bead-wearing middle managers and crusty dogs-on-string types. I'm with the Clock - worship trees if you want, but why not in a rational, fuck, trees are fab way, rather than this cod-pagan bollocks? It is is as bad as any other religion. Just enjoy the drugs for what they are, man.
• kitfisto-respek
• I've been to some of these, open and closed, because an ex invited me. I had fun. The last one I went to, she asked me to leave. Apparently I had an evil spirit (homunculus) whispering in my ear. I mean is that not the best break up line ever? It's unarguable.
• It's not me, it's you('re homunculus). Can we still be fiends? Perfik!
• When I'm worshipping sentient pink laser beams, I find it comforting that the homie next door is getting his groove on to Osiris. Don't take that away from me clockzero.
• WOTAN! Never underestimate the ability of people to convince themselves of spiritual phenomena, especially in groups with rituals. The very act of ritual is important in almost all religions, mostly due (in my opinion) to the idea of transcendence, which is fine on its own. The problem is that it's pretty easy to use that feeling of transcendence to convince people of stupid shit. Or have you never been to a Republican rally?
• The main problem here with open circles is that the local Christians feel compelled, in the spirit of love and goodness and all, to break them up.
• Some people get psychically overloaded and/or spiritually disoriented during these Circles, usually (but not exclusively) people new to the occult or paganism. Usually these people don
• Aw, Pez, that is a great break up line. Geez.
• Haven't read the article, but based on the comments to the thread, some of you will enjoy/be enlightened by Persuasions of the Witch's Craft, by T.M. Luhrmann. It's about how people like you and me come to believe in magic/paganism while still maintaining functionality in the mundane world. I first read it while I was in college/grad school (late 80s/early 90s), but I recently reread it and found it still has a lot to offer.
• Apparently I had an evil spirit (homunculus) whispering in my ear. Homunculus?
• I'll check that book out, immlass. As for the article, itself, I don't think it's a bad one. It's little bit lengthy, and clearly targeted at people who are already part of the Pagan community. I can understand why many of you Monkeys find it humurous. I happen to be on the Board of Directors of a Pagan group that does an open ritual every year in NYC. We've had as many as 500 people participate in the ritual and 5000 people attned our festival. I've never seen anyone exhibiting the disorienting symptoms that they describe after one of our rituals... unless that was the way they started out in the first place. Most people in the Pagan Community aren't as "moonbat" as you may think. I have a Masters degree, a 401(k), and a manage a $15 million dollar budget for a mainstream non-profit. I don't have a "magikal" name, and I don't wear ritual robes. I just wanna do my thing, ya know?
• Most people in the Pagan Community aren't as "moonbat" as you may think. Kimdog: there's weirdos everywhere--even within those who believe in "balance" there manages to be some fringers that will make it into extreme balance. /awkward sentence
• Oh, I with agree you completely, BlueHorse. My only concern is that the "fringers" in the Pagan community are usually taken to be representative of the whole. And more "mainstream" Pagan folk keep a low profile because they don't want to deal with the ongoing misconceptions and ridicule of the public and media at large. Certainly when the press ever delves into the subject of Paganism (you know, once a year, at Halloween) they only want to talk to the goth type folks. I was interviewed by the NY Times a couple of years ago, and they sent out a photographer. Evidently my jeans, sweater, and rosy complexion (I even had my cat!) didn't do it for them because they ended up running a photo of a pale face teenager in a robe wielding an athame.
• I have no particular problem with Paganism; it's the guy's "So You're Having A Slumber Party" writing style that's hilarious, complete with a bad cartoon illustration. His style, and the cartoon seem completely at odds with the dignity one might expect at a celebration of ritual by any religion.
• I am not really into Pagan rituals.
• Oh come on jesus - half of the christian litanty and sacraments are just cod re-enactments of older pagan myths and rites. Lamb of God? God sacrificed to himself, hanging on the World Tree. Face it, You're a pastiche. please don't smite me
• I did like the cartoon of the extra hairy guy.
• Mr. Knickerbocker - We can all be brothers here even the girls
• Oooo! Ooooo! A smoting! There is nothing, and I mean nothing I enjoy more then a good smoting.
• kimdog--please don't take it as a snark. I am not a practitioner, but I identify philosophically as pagan. I think the book has a lot to offer both mundanes and folks with esoteric interests. Based both on my experience of geekdom and some of the observations in the book, I actually would have been shocked if one or more people didn't out themselves as pagan/magical in this thread. Given the size of the community (pushing 3K) and the geekitude level, there have to be a bunch of pagans and magicians reading. It's only a question of how many of them are willing to come out of the (broom) closet, especially after the post and some of the comments upthread.
• Haven't read the article, but based on the comments to the thread, some of you will enjoy/be enlightened by Persuasions of the Witch's Craft I think the book has a lot to offer both mundanes and folks with esoteric interests. It's only a question of how many of them are willing to come out of the (broom) closet, especially after the post and some of the comments upthread. Alrighty. I've given up trying to post stuff people won't be offended by. In my opinion, the guy writing the article sounds like a fool, as I explained above. If that means all pagans are bad and that I'm a knuckledragging "mundane", well so be it, though the coy pompousness of the above certainly hasn't enlightened me in any way. If any pagans want to leave in a huff, go goddamn wild.
• I'm just confused by the nature of this witch/sorcerer/eccentric/pagans/whatever community; it seems like many of its inhabitants don't really have anything in common besides an overwhelming vagueness of description when it comes to the nature of their beliefs. It's not like paganism is synonymous with spiritual incoherence or anything. Many religious groups and practices which were described that way at one time or another had or have very definite rituals and a culturally specific (if not absolute and stable) pantheon. I guess the modern pagan community as described by the author of the article is just a result of the convergence of many traditions in a society which is itself artificial and non-traditional.
• Just to clarify: I'm not going anywhere, and I don't want anybody getting fuzzy on me. I'm tired of being offensive, tired of being offended, and will stick to commenting only, on silly stuff only.
• It didn't seem like anyone was particularly offended either way by the article. But then I've been really thick in the head this week. /not about to go fuzzy on monkeyjane
• Immlass- no snark taken! I was serious about checking the book out. Moneyjane- I wasn't offended by this post. If my comments sounded pissy, it wasn't the intention. I realize this place has been on pins and needles, lately. I guess I just always feel the need to do some myth disspelling (oooo, bad pun) when these topics float to the surface. And evidently, I am miserable at conveying a tone of mirth in this forum. clockzero- you pretty much hit the nail on the head. Paganism as a whole is rather amorphous with regards to identity. I think that is largely because its practitioners, for the most part, have rejected organized religion. Pagan paths are very much intuitive and their tenants very individualized. There are some common threads and beliefs, though, that loosely align us. Alright, that is my fringe flag waiving for the evening. Let's go pick on some real freaks... like furries or scientologists.
• Kimdog, I have no problem whatsoever with your comments. They are informative and thoughtful.
• moneyjane--I'm sorry the tone of my comments didn't suit. The comments were not intended to enlighten you, although you might find the book interesting. I am not personally offended by the post, although combined with some of the comments early in the thread it struck me as unlikely to make anyone want to say "hey, I'm pagan". The term "mundane" does not imply knuckledragging any more than the tem "straight" implies being retrograde about sexuality; it just means you're not pagan or don't do magic (or aren't a fan or a furry or whatever subculture is under discussion). I am not stomping off in a huff; today is the first time I have had time to read threads/comment in a couple of weeks; I don't know what the fuss with people leaving is about other than that there is one; and I neither want to insult you nor to give you warm fuzzies. Peace? kimdog--glad we're clear and nonsnarky. anybody got some puppies or kittens or something?
• I guess my problem with neo-paganism, magic and the like is that as far as I can see it's revival of a broken tradition and that inevitably leads to a sense of it being got up to suit some individual or other's passing fancy. But that's an outsider's view based on ignorance and doubtless there's much more to it. My only personal brush with serious pagans was facing off with the riot police cordoning off Stonehenge at Midsummer dawn back in the eighties. There was us flotsam and jetsam from the free festival and then some druids and the like. A few official druid types were bussed in having got approval, while we all got a batoning. I remember legging it across Salisbury Plain thinking it looked like a scene from Romans versus Ancient Britons.
• They've been on Mofi before, but what the heck... Pissed off cats in party hats!
• Those bastard cats got everything so good, and now they got party hats too. *cries*
• Thanks, Alnedra. I hadn't seen them before, and they're great! *imagines putting her own cats in party hats and then imagines bloody stumps she'd draw back, wisely decides against*
• Those are some pretty pissed-off cats.
• Frisbeetarianism is the the belief that when you die, your soul goes up on the roof and gets stuck. -- George Caling
• =Carling