January 10, 2005

• Is she seeing a therapist or counselor of any kind at the moment?
• CBT looks like an approach that's good as any. If she goes to therapy, the important thing is that the therapist clicks with her, and offers a compatible approach.
• Sorry to hear about that. I've suffered from serious depression all my life, but perhaps I'm not the most empathic person around, so my advice might not be very good. She may experience pressure & self doubt about the proposal, tipping off this emotional flux. I would say perhaps back off a bit, if you can, I don't really know if CBT is too extreme or not at this stage. She should see a psychiatrist, specifically neurologist versed in this kind of clinical depression, as a first measure, not a psychologist, & I stress that. Anti-depressant therapy for a first step. I don't know anything about Lexapro. Cycling different medications to find what works. It *could* be a hormonal issue, who knows what chemical imbalances are caused by the medical issues she's experiencing. Go easy, though. Be supportive. Talk. No pressure. But I would back off a bit on the heavy relationship stuff until this gets cleared up at least in her own head. You say she's 'hurt herself' - if you mean self-harm, then that's an issue that has something to do with self-worth, unrelated to your relationship, imho. It *may* have manifested now due to the proposal. That shit goes back to childhood, & I don't want to go there, having had shitloads of awful childhood crap myself, so my opinions may be one-sided. Others may have better insight.
• My family has all dealt with depression in some form or another, including myself. I've found CBT to be helpful when I"m stable enough to consider it. Your girlfriend needs to stabilize first and foremost lest she end up like my sister did, in the hospital trying to do herself in a couple of times.
  First thing I'd suggest is finding the right meds - they smooth over the really rough spots and help one get a grip on just living daily life. If she's on a downward slide even on Lexapro, then she isn't on the right meds and isn't dealing with some big big issues. Get her to a Psychiatrist who can evaluate if there's more going on and some more serious meds needed. I can't really give you any specifics on what those would be but in a pinch, Xanax is a good anxiety reliever. Puts you to sleep, too. You feel all warm all over. Which is nice.
  Then, once she's stabilized, doing CBT is key. Also providing her a safe, nonjudgemental place where she knows she can let herself be. She's probably freaking out more from knowing she's hurting you. The hurting herself, the cheating on you, the calling you crying -- they're all desperate cries for attention. Don't let her be forced into seeking attention that way. Give her positive attention. The girl you know and love is still there. Think of depression like a mask. You know the person you'd recognize is underneath, but they're hiding under something they don't have control over.
  Good luck genial...depression isn't fun. But you will learn a great deal about each other in the process.
• I proposed last summer (even though the decline had already started) why did you propose, then? my intuition tells me that you should Run For Your Life, but that's probably not what you wanted to hear. what would you like to have happen? i mean, are you wondering how you two can "make it work", or...? does she genuinely want to? also, how old is she?
• If she is hurting herself then either the lexapro isn't helping, she isn't taking it or she has some other un-addressed issues. Would definitely see about changing her medication. Councelling might help with recognizing the 'ruts' she gets into and how to avoid/retrain her thinking/attitudes/behaviour in the future. good luck.
• two suicides in my family, and i have depression. take medicine. i have taken some medicine for the past three months and i feel alive.
• From the little (very little) I know and can see by googling, Lexapro looks pretty hardcore. Maybe some sort of combination of a softer drug, therapy and CBT? One site claims that some of the negative side effects of Lexapro are caused by DNA and that a Drug Reaction Test will show what drugs would not work. I guess the big issue will be getting across to your girlfriend that she needs to change something and soon, if she doesn't realise that already. Good luck.
• The recent behaviour makes me wonder if she might be bi-polar. And you're a saint for sticking this out.
• It sounds like she's saying she doesn't want to marry you. I mean, cheating is usually a dealbreaker. I'm not trying to be flip, I'm just saying she's still rational and making choices; you are too. By sticking around I feel you are shifting from being a partner to being a parent, and I think that's a tough place try to make a marriage work from. After two-and-a-half years, you must know her parents. What are they doing about this?
• Yeah that's a good point. Avoid co-dependency at all costs.
• I'm really sorry to hear this. Good luck to you, in the absence of any helpful suggestions.
• What debris7 said sounds like sound advice. atchafalaya's question about her parents reminds me: depression is often genetic, so one thing you might ask her is whether anyone in her family has experienced a crisis like this, and if so what did they do about it? Her therapist might be able to recommend a change in medication if she has one; if not, it's imperative that she get to one, one she likes and trusts. When I'm depressed, though, I've noticed a tendency in myself to shun the thing I know will help, so it may take some doing to get her into a therapist's office. What can you do? Be there for her. It's not down to you to do a therapist's work, or be a replacement for one. It may be down to you to encourage her to get to her therapy sessions, take her meds, and generally to treat her like a friend which will reassure her, because she is probably frightened to death of what's happening inside her head. (I was.) If the thought of the wedding is a source of stress or pressure (which, for even the happiest couples, it often is,) be prepared to give her space about it. The decion to marry someone is best made with a balanced mind, so let her know that she can make that decision in her own time. You can always propose again once she's back on an even keel. (Romantic bonus: two proposals for the price of one!) SO's willing to stick with someone who's got a carnival of horrors in their head are a rare breed. She's lucky in that respect, and kudos to you for being there.
• I can assure you all the engagement has been put on indefinite hold for the time being. Honestly, even though I said the decline started, it was nothing like the more drastic things I listed. That all was within the last 2 months. When I proposed over the summer it was a buildup of both of us planning it, and she was very stable. If anything I thought maybe she just needed to rethink her dosage a little. In fact, planning the wedding used to be the one hobby that she actually enjoyed doing before this extreme downward slope started. Thanks for all the advice here. I agree she needs to be seeing a therapist, pyschologist, or something. She went to see someone in December and basically told me that they had told her she was allergic to too many other meds to be on anything other than Lexapro and that Lexapro was as good as any anyways. So they upped the dosage then, which hasn't helped at all. My concern is that she's not seeing anyone to talk out her feelings (and she's definitely not taking advantage of doing that with any family members at the moment). I already realize that this all needs to get worked out before I can think about marrying her. She knows it too. Whether we remain together is honestly not the biggest of my concerns. I can't stand the thought of her killing herself, so that's more why I asked these things. I can see all the warning signs of a suicidal person. I want to know that if something happened I didn't just stand idly by, but did/suggested everything I could. Depression goes pretty far back in the family (including attempted suicide) unfortunately. I have a great relationship with her mother, but I think she's as lost as I am. Her mother is a nurse, and I expect that for a long time her mother assumed that she could just diagnose any problem her daughter had. So when she saw depression, she just briefly spoke with another nurse friend and *Tada* she's on Lexapro, but with no counseling. I've only recently been pushing for her to get counseling. I wonder sometimes if by building that up so much she will get discouraged if she doesn't see results. Wedge, she's 21, I'm 22. And believe me, running for my life has run through my head too many times to count, but I owe it to her and our relationship to at least see that she gets the help she needs right now, regardless of whether we should part ways in the future.
• Medicine is often discounted by people with no experience with Depression. Outside of medicine, I have a few things I do. One is that I avoid wearing a label of "victim of depression". However true it may be, accepting that label makes it self-fulling. There's noway to avoid being depressed if you accept "depressed" as an accurate descriptor. This means avoiding saying things like "becase my depression, I have to ____", or "my condition cause me to _____". Even if it's true, saying these things only serves to crystallize them into larger obstacles.
• Genial ... all my sympathies to you ... I can see you're in a very difficult place. There's been a lot of very sensible stuff said above so I haven't got too much to add. I have some experience in this area ... don't want to go into the details! As many others have said - she needs a therapist, she also needs medicine to stabilise her - but the most difficult thing will be for her to take responsibility for her behaviour, her choices and her actions. There's a really fine line for you between being stable and supportive and taking over as her nurse/carer/parent etc and allowing her to dump the responsibility on you ... It's not easy ... But as atchafalaya said above you have to look after yourself in order to allow her to look after herself ...
• She needs to be in counseling... preferably with someone who is in a position to share notes and coordinate care with a physician. If there's something deeper going on (such as bipolar personality disorder, which unfortunately sounds like a possiility), this might be the way to catch that... and if she is bipolar, that will influence the choices doctors make when determining what medicines she should be taking. The medicines used to treat depression are not necessarily the best ones to take for bipolar, and will occasionally make things worse. I've been there on both sides of the situation, and it is not fun. You seem like a good guy, and I hope things come out well. Good luck.
• All antidepressants are different. Lexapro is a fairly new one; it doesn't act on the same part of the brain as the older ones (Prozac, Zoloft, Wellbutrin etc) - it isn't an SSRI. I'm not a medical person (don't even play one on tv!) but it sounds to me like Lexapro is really not working on her and she needs something different - AND counseling. Lexapro worked for me on a short term basis so I swear by it as a wonder drug, but that's me. Prozac saved a friend of mine - there are a lot of different anti-deps out there. She definitely, definitely needs to be seeing a psychiatrist (MD) first though, especially given the diabetes & the epilepsy medication - it scares me that she just went on Lexapro without a full diagnosis and prescription. The epilepsy medication and the lexapro could even be working against each other and causing some of the slide; so I'd see if you can get her into a good psychiatrist first of all to really take an overview look at her meds. Then counseling. And yeah, you are great for sticking around - remember to take care of yourself too!
• running for my life has run through my head too many times to count, but I owe it to her and our relationship to at least see that she gets the help she needs right now You really don't. Two things. First, whether she gets help or not really isn't up to you. Beyond talking about it to her, which it sounds like you've done, you can't make her do anything. I felt the same way as you do when I was in my twenties and married to someone going nuts, until she left, but you really don't owe her any outcomes. You've made a good-faith effort to steer her towards help, and that's all you're "obligated" to do. Second, there's no good reason to let her illness fuck up your life. I don't mean this to sound any more cruel than it has to be, but being sick is likely to fuck up her life, at least for a while. If you stick it out, odds are all that you'll be doing is making another victim for her illness, which doesn't help anyone. I'm not telling to you run for your life, but I am telling you that even if you dump her, you're still an okay guy. You're allowed to dump people who are toxic to you, for whatever reason. That said, if all she's gotten so far is her mom the nurse talking to another nurse, what she needs is a full-on no-shit psychiatric evaluation, *especially* if she's already on neurological-related drugs and diabetic, which increases the risk of depression. But it ain't your job to "make sure" she gets it; it might be her family's job, but it's certainly not yours.
• I got into this rather late, but I would like to second the folks who are telling to to check yourself before you wreck yourself. I have dealt with depression both personally as well as the folks around me (brother is bi-polar, mom is depressed and on meds, etc...) and can tell you that unless the person is willing to seek help, there is little or nothing you can do short of being their doormat. They need to want to seek help, otherwise all the support in the world won't help. Talk to families and spouses of alcoholics and they will tell you the same thing. I was in an abusive relationship with a woman who had a pathological lying problem. It's not the same thing but it's similar. We went to therapy, both as couples and singularly, and she just didn't want to be helped. Needless to say we broke up and ultimatly I suffered considerably due to her pathology. There's nothing wrong with you trying to help the one you love, just be sure that they want to be helped, otherwise you are doomed to be a puppet in their self created hell.
• There's a difference between "I want to help" and "I'm obligated to help" or "I owe it to her." If you want to, you want to. Certainly you can stick around and be encouraging, if you choose to. However, you are not obligated, nor do you owe it to her, yourself, or your relationship (how exactly do you owe a relationship)? And I'd caution against feeling as though you're obligated, because that makes the ill partner into a drag or a burden - and nobody wants to be that. If her family is around and reasonably stable, then it's more their responsibility than yours, in my opinion. Ultimately it's hers, but I mean to run backup, keep an eye out, give her reminders etc. Fourthed-twentysixthed that a different drug, or a different dosage, is in order. If someone is on medication and things are still bad, it's the wrong medication for them. There may be a better fit, or they may decide on another tactic, but that's for a pro to figure out. Other than that I've got nothing to add beyond what's already said; my experiences are much milder than this.
• I sincerely appreciate all the good advice. I do want to clarify that I don't feel the extreme pressure of sticking in the relationship whether it be good or bad. However I want to be able to look back on it and at least say I offered what advice I could. We don't live close to each other anyway, so that allows things to be less of a burden on me. I know she wants help, she's just unsure of what needs to be done, and of course theres many times where she feels it's hopeless and maybe feels resigned to the way she is right now as who she must be. So it's not that I feel I owe her anything long term, but when you've been so close to someone for so long, well I guess I just want to be able to look back on things without any regrets, regardless of the outcome.
• i've been on paxil for 10 years after three cyclical depressions beginning 20 years ago. did serious therapy for 2 years. my advice, FWIW: have her see a family doc for a thorough physical including bloodwork. sometimes a thyroid deficiency, for instance, can trigger depression. this is basic but important. then have her see a psychiatrist for a meds evaluation. therapy worked wonders for me. in fact, i recommend it even for those not suffering from mental illness. it can help open your mind and expand your emotional depth. really. best of luck, and don't forget to take care of YOURSELF in this process.
• Cheers to you for wanting to try to stick it out and be helpful, rather than just screaming and running away. Good wishes to you both.
• I took Lexapro for a few months, and when it was clear it wasn't working, my shrink put me on another medicine. If she's been taking it for a year and a half and is still exhibiting depressive behavior, then clearly it isn't working and she needs a doctor to put her on something else.
• I'd echo all the good advice already written in this thread, both for you and her, except I would recommend that she sees more one psychiatrist, even if it looks like the first one is helping. It's very important to get a correct diagnosis, and it's equally important to recognize that even though some drug may appear to fix things, it might not in the long run. Get a second opinion if you or her have any doubts. You're a great person for wanting to help. Good luck.
• I went thru something similiar when I was in college. I never finished college but eventually got myself together. I am taking wellbutrin and it's working great. My wife went through some weird emotional stuff and it turned out to be related to her thyroid, she started taking her thyroid meds and she was back to normal fairly quickly. A complete physical and good bloowork should definietly be done. Good luck I feel both of your pain.
• I'll second SideDish's suggestion that a full blood panel be done to check for thyroid problems, as it can cause depression. If's she's using the pill or other hormones for birth control, it's also worth looking at the dosage and if it's changing levels over the course of the month--some folks do not tolerate that well, and need to be on a pill that has a steady dosage over the month. Other than that, therapy. You may also want to talk to a counselor yourself--us monkeys are cool and all, but it sounds like you may need some long term support (either if you stay or decide to parts ways with your fiancee).
• Genial, I'm sorry to hear about your situation. I believe most of what the other monkeys have mentioned is worthwhile. I have dealt with depression and mental illness with friends and family quite a bit. That said, I am not any type of mental health professional. Please seek their advice. (More on that below). As you have no doubt gleaned, your girlfriend needs to see a therapist or mental health professional of some kind. I would also humbly suggest that you do so as well (as I believe SideDish also mentioned)...and I'll elaborate on that more below. I think one of the biggest social taboos still around and desperately in need of being eliminated, is that mental illness and mental health are simply a matter of will and “strength of character” or some such nonsense--that they are, for some reason, entirely separate from other health issues. If you ran a marathon, you’d better be in shape. If you had to run a marathon not in shape, you’d really be hurting. Well, I would humbly suggest some experiences in life are the emotional equivalent of running a marathon, and your psyche will be quite exhausted if not overwhelmed by going through that emotional ringer. If people simply saw emotional/mental health as simply another thing to maintain, like not eating too much fatty foods and watching their cholesterol, we’d all be better off. The other thing I would mention is that, just like any health issue, the solution is holistic. To get in better shape, it isn’t simply taking a pill or simply going to the gym or changing your diet. You will need elements of all of those activities--and hopefully drugs will not be needed, but they are often necessary. I’ve found that often people reduce mental health questions to “take drugs?/don’t take drugs?” decisions, when the reality is much more complicated. In severe instance, such as suicidal urges, drugs may be necessary (this is definitely something to consult with a mental health professional about--don’t simply take my word for it). But just like all heart or cholesterol problems aren’t simply treated with drugs, you shouldn’t look simply at finding the right drug to deal with depression.
• What I know of SSRIs, the most common class of antidepressant out there these days, is that they do usually work the same, and then it depends on individuals and possible side effects that lead mental health professionals to prescribe the right one. However, exercise and cognitive therapy also factor in treatment (and probably other things I’m not thinking of because I’m not a mental health professional). I did do some cognitive therapy and found it useful for more mild depression as well as understanding some negative patterns of thinking. One book you could probably check out from your local library would be Feeling Good by David Burns. Some cognitive advocates would contend drugs are never the answer, while some Freudians or pharmaceutical advocates would argue for their viewpoints exclusively. As with all things, I suspect the answer is a combination of approaches and what works best for you. Apparently, people quitting smoking have the best success by using a combination of methods, not simply the patch, the nicorette, etc. But the manufacturers, etc., are too busy wanting their approach to be the silver bullet. Look at what works best for you, and understand it might be a combination of approaches. With that in mind, it’s best that your girlfriend and also you try several different therapists, and find one that you are comfortable with. You wouldn’t be comfortable with a physical therapist that you seriously doubted would ever help you move properly again, would you? Why let that happen in the metaphysical realm? It may be hard to check out various therapists given your insurance situation, but if you can, it’s best. Since friends might feel uncomfortable giving therapist recommendations as easily as they might a dentist or physical therapist, I’d suggest seeing your primary care physician (PCP) if you can, perhaps in the context of a regular checkup, which, if you’re like most people, you’re overdue for anyway.
• S/he should know of some people, and then, best of all, they can coordinate any needed treatment. All the doctors I know want to do things the proper way: have coordinated treatment, build a relationship with patients they see more than once in a lifetime, be more of a family doctor, what have you. The crazy insurance situation in the States prevents a lot of that, or at least makes you work harder to get it, but it is worth it. I’ve had the same PCP for almost 4 years now, luckily, and it makes a great difference. They know more than simply what can be put on a chart. And most primary care physicians know about mental health and are ready to be the front line for diagnosing that. Emotional health is just that. It sounds like you've been through a lot emotionally. You're probably still are going through a lot. That emotional strain can and will affect you physically. It isn't being weak. It's what makes us human. Respect that. You need to watch out for your health. Believe me, as you get older, your body reminds you. To give you two personal examples, I was caught in a riot whilst studying in Indonesia in '95 and although I seemed to be fine at the time, I suffered PTSD-style echoes to my psyche three years later. (I was watching a movie in which a riot scene occurred and found myself freaking out in the middle of a movie theatre). I was caught completely by surprise at the severity of my emotions. I still remember looking over at the smoke rising from the Pentagon on 9/11 and not being able to get through to certain friends and family to make sure they were safe. I know the emotional strain of that contributed (along with other events to a serious bout of depression on my part. Even knowing what I do, I was at first resistant to the idea of seeking help. You make excuses because there still is that stigma about anyone with less-than-perfect mental health, even though, just like downing too many French fries, most of us could be in better shape. Obviously, I’ve been writing this more thinking of you, since I don’t really know your girlfriend at all. If either of you are helped by this though, I’m glad. I wish you the best in dealing with all of this.
• Some trouble getting all that out. Sorry.
• Having been the best friends of a diabetic for 15 + years I would also look at her blood sugar levels. I know pumps are a godsend for diabetics, but her behavior sounds very similar to my friends when her blood sugar levels were out of control in her early 20's. Does she test regularly? Assuming her diabetes is truly under control, her behavior is definitely alarming. I would be as honest with her as you have been with us - telling her all of her concerns and really encouraging her to get professional help.
• It's not thyroid. That's a waste of time. Host of other symptoms appear before emotional disturbance with thyroid. Verify that she is actually taking the meds. Verify that there is an 'allergic reaction' to other anti depressants. Often sufferers bullshit to avoid variance in routine or exposing themselves to further clinical scrutiny (my gut feeling is the meds are fucking her up or she's not taking them). Try Venlafaxine. Stop her from using alcohol. What did her father do, what was her relationship with her father & mother? This is deep shit, superficial actions amount to nothing if you are dealing with deep-seated psychological problems. I come from the most fucked up family imaginable, with psychosis, sociopathy, alcholism, drug & physical abuse.. you name it. I'm telling you right now that if this chick is 'self harming' she is doing more than just jaggin herself with razor blades; she is missing or doubling her dosages, perhaps doing other crazy shit. Depression manifests in many, many ways. Trust me, I'm not trying to be nasty, but when I was fucked in the head badly goin' thru post traumatic stress from childhood abuse, I lied even to the people I loved the most, because I hated myself, & my abuse was a secret thing I used to punish me, those that loved me, & anyone else around me, because I was out of control. My personal opinion is that heavy SSRIs are bad, they have widely variable effects, & are not predictable in the way they work with individuals. Venlafaxine is not a tricyclic anti depressant or MAO inhibitor. SSRIs are unpredictable & can have grossly weird effects. I don't like 'em at all, & trust me I've had lots of experience with it. Venlafaxine I am on right now, & it has allowed me to deal with my emotional ups & downs without numbing me to the point of narcolepsy. Like I said before, I don't want to be hurtful or rude, but I can only state what I have experienced. And with a family full of nutbars I've had to care for (with Asperger's syndrome & depression myself) ultimately, reality bites. Caring sympathetic lovey-dovey advice doesn't do shit at the end of the day, & on top of that most therapists are useless. Neurological trained psychs are the best. Only when chemical imbalances are corrected can emotion problems be addressed in a clear fashion. I really hope that things work out. Depression is a fuckin nightmare. People who haven't born it, just don't understand. It's hell, so my hopes are with you & your partner.
• Sounds a bit like Borderline Personality, but I am in no way qualified to make that call. I echo the sentiments of people above me. Try to get her some therapy.
• I can't tell you how great all this information is. I'm really getting a lot of good stuff here. Nostril, pertaining to her family, I don't think there's major issues there (of course one can never truly know, I've known her 2 1/2 years which is relatively short compared to her whole life). I don't know what to think regarding the self-inflicted stuff. She doesn't like it, doesn't WANT to do it, but feels that sometimes something just takes control of her (I don't believe she's done any of this recently). She has no alcohol problems (herself or within the family) Her parents are divorced but she still has a good relationship with both (and it's important to note the parents themselves have a good relationship with each other). Once again, I appreciate all the information everyone has provided. In the end I know my role in this is of less significance than what she decides she needs to take on, but at this point she's so lost and needs some direction, and honestly I wasn't sure where I could point her or her family for help with it. I plan on bookmarking this thread especially for her mother so that she'll be aware of what kinds of options they could seek.
• I'm bipolar (spelled bipolar NOT bi-polar, that's a big pet peeve of mine) and I suspect your girlfriend could also be dealing with it. She needs to get a second opinion. If she does have bipolar (type two, the kind I have, is mostly depression) then she might want to try Lamictal. It is a mood stabilizer that works great for bipolar depression. Also, tell her to get into as much natural sunlight as she can, and get a good brand of B vitamin complex to take as well. No matter what, she should NOT settle for staying on Lexapro. Even with allergic issues, there are too many other things out there to try. And for me, antidepressant poopout was the big red flag that got me my present diagnosis.
• genial, when I was reading your post last night I had a friend around who has depression. She takes her meds off and on, and is just readjusting to being on them to cope with a couple of major life changes. She was telling me that the self-harm thing (which she did and does) is a major way of venting, of getting out built-up emotion or dealing with something negative. If she gets yelled at by her boss, she goes home and cuts herself. She sees it as just a quirk of her personality, from what I can tell, although I've seen the scars and I know it's more than that. She's also tried suicide and sympathises with your girlfriend/fiancee. So I guess what I'm saying is that therapy, having someone to talk to, may help with that aspect of her depression. Again, good luck. There's some amazing advice here.
• Exercise. Diet. I believe that I have heard that they are the most effective means of dealing with depression. They sure as hell can't hurt.
• oh, bernockle, thanks for reminding me. yes, exercise is especially helpful as it raises some chemical that your brain enjoys. really! exercise makes your brain happier
• Serotonin! I think! Plus endorphins in the short run. The problem with exercise while depressed is getting up the energy to do it in the first place, but it is nice. Though I have, like, the Caffeine-Free Diet Coke of depression, so your mileage may vary. It's not so much a silver bullet as a good thing you can also do to feel a bit better, in my opinion. If your problem is fairly severe, it would probably be very hard to get an exercise program together and stick to it.
• I second the comment of making sure her diabetes is well under control. My ex is a diabetic, and I thought he had it under control, but he also drank quite a bit (secretly). This made his blood sugar go out of control, which made him severely depressed. (Or more depressed. He was self-medicating with alcohol.) From what I have heard, people with severe blood sugar issues (way too high, way too low) can exhibit symptoms that seem bipolar.
• I can bring you a bit of expertise re: self-mutilation from my professional experiences. As nostril says, it portends much deeper issues than mood disorders. A major factor behind such, in women, is often sexual abuse. It tends to leave a feeling of helplessness that drives one to control the only thing they believe they can - self-destruction. It is a recurring thing in prisons, for the same reason, control. It becomes a way to activate the emergency machinery and get the attention and desired results. This works for both a whole instition, or another individual. A means of control. It also can become addictive behaviour as the person starts to enjoy the endomorphine rush. I'd love to say 'run' but I don't think you'd like yourself for that, from what I know of you. By all means try to convince this lady to seek psychiatric care, other than her mother's advice. Definitely counselling. And please, disengage yourself emotionally from her actions as the more you respond the more you are reinforcing it. You must not feel yourself responsible, as others have said. Unless you would like to live in a soap opera. Don't forget that sexual abuse can come from either male or female perps. Ditto on the exercise and clean living as essential ingredients of self-care. /worrying about you.
• I appreciate the sentiment (and I'm a little tipsy so I apologize ahead of time if I ramble for a bit). I seriously do not believe that she is a victim of sexual abuse. I can't know for sure but I just don't feel like that is the case. I feel like she may be turning to certain things simply because she has heard of them and may feel there are no other options. dxlifer, I can't run, but thank you thinking of me. At least I can't run right now. If things get worse before they get better I may have to reevaluate the situation. But for the time being, I'm simply an encouraging word from the sidelines. I have the benefit of not having to deal with this because she is leaving the school that we went to together (I don't even want to begin to describe how the last semester went). She's focusing on herself and her family is with her to offer whatever support they can (for which in some sense this thread may provide some help). She used to exercise (Curves if you've heard of it) and found it refreshing, if not simply for the endorfins and other chemical reactions it provided but also the social aspect (she would often go with a roommate from school). AFAIK, she is currently not doing anything physically and just living from day to day with no ambitions for the next. I'm quite sure sunlight and exercise are not on her agenda, but I may try to suggest them just for the hell of it. Her diabetes can get wacko sometimes, especially when she's sick (tis the season) but for the most part she keeps and eye on it and tests often. She saw a doctor recently because earlier she couldn't get her blood sugars down although that was just a 2-3 day thing (seemingly unrelated to the past events that suggest something deeper). I'm debating right now whether or not I should just edit this thread with most of the information and send it off to her mom. I know she would appreciate it and in some small way the whole family might benefit from it. As for myself, I just need to weather the storm right now, although I haven't ruled out counseling in the future. No doubt, this is health on earth, watching the one you love dissapear, cease to feel love like you once did. Hell. But I need her to start a path to therapy (whether that involves me in her life or not) before I can concentrate on my well-being. It's just the way it has to be. On preview, definitely rambling, but I appreciate all the advice as always and I promise to keep you all updated on how things go.
• *health=hell* and I won't begin to touch on the other misspellings in that comment...
• I talked to her tonight, told her about this thread (as geeky as "Hey, I posted this Monkeyfilter thread about the situation" sounds) and suggested some of the things that have been commented on. Things didn't blow over too well. She's very non-responsive to anything that involves changing medicines. She still believes some things are environmental, and to be honest, I just don't think she's willing to try other medicines because of the physical toll it puts on her body. So we had a sobering discussion about what things could be done and I slowly came to the conclusion that for the short term, her future didn't include me. She can't stand to see me hurt because of her actions, and I can't stand the daily turmoil of constantly grieving our relationship and worrying about our future and her safety. So I told her I had to step down for the time being, bow out and lay low for a bit. I asked her to send the ring. Although I told her not to give up hope in the future, and I do want her to call me when she feels there's something worth talking about. But I couldn't do it anymore. Sorry again for making this a personal soapbox. I really didn't mean to turn this thread into a boo hoo session for me, I'll live. More than anything I hope this thread will help others dealing with similiar bouts of depression or directly relating to someone who suffers such a fate. All the advice was not in vain, and as always, I appreciate simply the ability to come to y'all monkeys with a problem and get such helpful responses. Thanks again.
• Genial, I don't really have any advice but I hope things work out for your fiancee. One word of caution: if she does start seeing a psychiatrist (which would be great) and is put on more or different medication, someone should be keeping an eye on what/how much she's taking. Ideally this would be her doctor, but if she's feeling self-destructive she may start seeing and getting prescriptions from more than one. My brother has been depressed as long as I can remember, we were all thrilled when he finally started seeing a psychiatrist a few years ago. His doctor prescribed an anti-depressant plus some Ativan for his panic attacks. The anti-depressant didn't work for him and he got badly addicted to the Ativan, so then he was depressed and addicted. Greeeeeeat. Not that it would happen to her, but there's the possibility to watch out for (my brother kicked the addiction eventually, but it was extremely rough going for a long while). Also, I would agree with Nostril that it's not thyroid related. I've had thyroid-related depression, and it's more of a "can't get off your ass because nothing you'd do would matter" kind of thing. More like a dull ache than a sharp pain, if you know what I mean. Good luck.
• Oh my, I must've clicked post just as you did. I'm sorry genial, that's a tough thing to have to do. I hope you're okay.
• This may be the best thing for the both of you right now, genial. The best way for you to be there for her may be to give her some space. I have no advice that hasn't already been given, but you're in my thoughts.
• Genial, I wrote this post out in my head before I saw your last one: disengage and let her deal with this without you. I was a 21-year-old woman dealing with major depression (and some of the shittiness dxlifer pointed out in his post) and what I couldn't excuse myself for was how horrible my problems were for my boyfriend. The guilt I felt for exposing my depression to this sweet man pretty much swamped all my obligations to my own sanity. Plus, and I hate the way this may sound: you're both very young. There may be some toxic shit she has to jettison before she can be a full partner. Marriage and engagement may be too much for her right now.
• genial, I think you have handled this well. It took great courage on your part to present this to her and be able to maintain a reasonable discussion. And please, dxlifer is a her. /must ask trac about name change to dxlifesse
• I'm sure that was a tough call. Again, good luck.
• Dxlifer is hot! (Sorry, but there is something about caring women...)
• As someone who's dealt w/ depression both personally and watched numerous friends/family members imprisoned in co-dependent "toxic" relationships, I commend you for the strength you've shown to know when to take a step back. This is highly important for both of you to take the time to concentrate on making yourselves the best you both can be (for each other ultimately, or on your own), without being trapped in the constant cycle of fear and worry about how both of your actions are affecting the relationship. There's been a lot of really good advice in this thread and you're lucky to be surrounded by people who care enough about you to lend their advice. best of luck to both of you!!
• ah Skrik, thank you. Do you need some nurturing too? Since my life has revolved around rescuing and helping, you can join my care-clan as well.
• <> oh my fellow monkeys, where do I start?? ONE: Before I posted a "curious george" I did a little archive search and came upon this thread. my CG question was going to be whether anyone knew of any good depression message boards. the few I've run across have either been too "out there" or so inactive as to be nearly dead. TWO: I've been taking Lexapro since Nov 04. I've been taking zoloft, wellbutrin, and celexa since 1996. i've got a pretty good history of poopout. I started my lexapro at 10mg and loved it for about 6 weeks. started to level off, my shrink upped me to 20 (about end Dec/early Jan). started to poopout out again about end of April. Now I'm taking 30 mg and it kind of scares me. I can't say that it's working all that great, but it has been raining here for the last 10 days and light is a big thing for me. can you tell me more about the manic part of your bipolar?? I've thought that before but my "highs" are not so high but there is a definite "swing" there that seems fairly dramatic to me....
• I've had great luck with daily mix of 300 mg of Wellbutrin SR, 10 mg of Prozac, and 50 mg Seroquel. Lucky for me, I can hang at low doses for ages; I've been on the Wellbutrin and Prozac combo for about two years, and the Seroquel about a year. Nothing stops the nightmares though. It's like I have some weirdo Rollodex of anxiety and ultraviolence that has to spin through A-Z nightly. Sometimes it's interesting; mostly it's just exhausting.
• I'm on a similiar mix as moneyjane, 300 Wellbutrin and 20 Prozac. I have to say that it is working well for me, for the most part. I can't get away from PMS, or particular stressfull situations--but I can handle them better than before. I no longer get those terminally looooooonnnnnng depressions, nor do I get any more horrible panic attacks. So, AFAIAC, that's all I can really ask for. I still have to deal with life's little annoyances, and I may occasionally react as if they are much larger, but no reacts as if they are afraid of/for me anymore. Also, as I am too lazy to check out any of the links, I will just add some more. Take care.
• pjjlady, if light is a big factor, would natural light lamps help any? Not as a replacement for medication, of course, but perhaps it might help you get past lightless days?
• I am in grad school studying for my license in traditional Chinese medicine. At our school clinic, I have seen quite a few patients benefit from TCM treatment of their depression. I reccomend you consider looking into acupuncture and herbs as compliments to your other treatment. Here is some info. Finding a good practitioner is key, if you have questions about how to track down the right one for you, email me and I can give you some advice. Good luck.
• I would love to hear some stories from monkeys who have done acupuncture. I hear great things in the news, but I haven't met anyone who has used it much. I hear it works wonders for smokers who want to quit, too.
• I had acupuncture once on my ankle, the first time I sprained it badly. There was supposed to be a clot somewhere inside, and the physician poked a needle into my ankle, and I felt something inside burst. After that my ankle felt loads better. But I think that's not how acupuncture is usually used though.
• Me, too Darshon. I've heard lots of tales of acupuncture helping with everything from depression to weight loss. The only time I ever have been around it is with a koo-koo vet that stuck some needles in my horse's knee to take down swelling. The horse didn't like it much, the swelling didn't go down, and the vet was lousy with traditional methods, so I figured she probably wasn't that great with acupuncture, either.
• I have been an acupuncture client for 15 years and go to her first for something unless it is falling off or broken. Second on the “Finding a good practitioner is key” as I have gone to a few who were a bit out there. Keep in mind that acupuncture can be subtle and will take longer than a 400mg something or other. Also realize that you need to do all the other good stuff too, getting enough sleep, eating well and so on. Otherwise you will get that look like you told your personal trainer “yes I did my 50 sit-ups then ate 25 Twinkies chased by a black n tan”. A few suggestions…If possible plan your treatments to treat your self well. What you say? For example on my days I like to sleep in, soak at the hot springs, then get my treatment. Followed by a nice nap ahhhhhh. The use of relaxation tapes and/or self hypnosis will get you extra mileage and feel sooo good. Whatever we choose to do, don’t forget to take a deep breath, smile and relax. not because i say so, because you choose to......
• i had acupuncture in beijing for a very sore throat. the needles were placed in my hands, between my thumb and first finger. it didn't hurt at all. and while the needles were in, my throat felt fine. but as soon as they took them out, the sore throat came back again. turns out i was coming down with a NASTY sinus infection, probably due to all the pollution. i'll spare you the details.
• go...for something unless it is falling off or broken So these needles are no help with re-attachment?
• Tales of breakdown and recovery.
• Thanks bobb.