December 25, 2004

New York Cop; Future Saint of 9-11 "...she was calling from Mexico, someone had sent her a picture of Jerome and told her to pray to him." Jerome Dominguez, NYPD.

Is this how martyrs or saints start? Like the North American Jesuit martyrs, he was doing his job when he came to a nasty end. The Jesuits were saving souls during a time of extreme violence between Iroquois and Huron, Jerome Dominguez was saving lives as a New York cop. Bear in mind I don't know much about the workings of either the Catholic Church or the Jesuit Order, but this made me wonder, if 500 years hence, Officer Dominguez will have joined the martyrs, canonized by the Pope.

posted by moneyjane 20 years ago
  • He has a long road to becoming a saint. He has to either be a martyr or have some miracle attributed to him. To die a martyr, he would have to be killed because of his belief in Jesus. The only person I know of who would say that he was killed because he believed in Jesus would be George W. Bush. So someone will have to manufacture some miracle that is attributed to him. You can imagine how suspect that claim can be. It is a long, long process. Remember, because of procedural issues the Catholic Church has yet to canonize Mother Theresa or Frank Zappa.
  • "So someone will have to manufacture some miracle that is attributed to him." They already are. Father Giovanni: He is a good priest from Italy, working in Queens, New York, and a good friend of our family. One day he was praying and suddenly Jerome appeared to him with the majesty of and Archangel and just told him, "Pray for my Mother"
  • As the US turns more to religion, and given the cultural resonance of New York cop dying in 9-11, it may not be seen nearly as suspect as it would have been 9-10-2001.
  • They should keep his memory in their hearts, minds, and stories they tell. They should worry little about how the Vatican will come to view him. When the Vatican sells their billions of dollars of property and artifacts to help those in need, then I will give greater heed to their opinions.
  • I don't really give a flying fuck about the Vatican myself, but that's not the point; I'll try and clarify this. Can martyrs or saints still happen in 2004? Can being crushed or burned to death by agents of a different religious system in 2001 be likened to being tortured to death in 1649 by 'heathen' Iroquois in their genocidal bid to exterminate the Hurons??
  • You tear up a picture of the pope on live national television and people still don't get it. /bald chick
  • It's a moot point since a number of the traditional early Catholic saints weren't historical figures at all; a great many of them were holdovers from pagan religion, often pastoral divinities given a quick makeover by the church in a clever attempt to subsume local beliefs. Other early saints were considered holy soley by popular acclaim. Only in the middle-ages did the process become judicial, if memory serves. As for newer saints, Padre Pio springs to mind, I believe he is already canonised. Pope John Paul II has canonized nearly 300 saints since his election, which I think is the largest number of saints 'created' by any pope. As to the necessary requirements for canonisation, martyrdom is not actually one of them (although it really helps). The requirements are that the subject must have performed a miracle, judged by the Vatican's criteria of course. The best ones are medical miracle cures, verified scientifically. Also the subject must have lived a life of extraordinary & obvious 'virtue'. Basically, those are the only hard rules, as far as I know. So, if praying to Jerome Dominguez produces medical cures, miraculous events that can be verified, or other such things, then in fact it may not even take 500 years for him to be canonised. Possibly less than 50; Padre Pio died in 1968 - however he was an extraordinary case who allegedly performed many miracles - bilocation, cures, & had stigmata. Dominquez will have to appear in miraculous form to quite a few people to get the kind of boost Pio did.
  • Sorry, that whole increased hits on the website thingie to prove he was dead in heaven was just too weird. I quit reading right there.
  • Sure, they can still be martyrs. But they have to be killed because of their religious beliefs. People in the Trade Center were not killed because of their religious beliefs. There were probably a hundred or so different religions that lost members in those buildings. That would hardly qualify as being killed for their religious beliefs. If a priest in Iraq were captured and beheaded by folks making pro-Islam statements, then that priest would qualify as a martyr.
  • Ahhh...but listen to the rhetoric that flies around, how Al Qaeda are 'against Western values and freedoms'...in 500 years maybe Western values and freedoms will mean "Christian" should the US go seriously Fundamentalist.
  • "There were probably a hundred or so different religions that lost members in those buildings." That sounds a little overstated. I would guess that the majority were agnostic or christian, there were quite a few jewish people there, and a smattering of muslims, possibly a few hindus, but I think the list ends there. Maybe there was a buddhist or two, but I think the cross-section would be pretty much like the religious cross-section of central manhattan - I can't see there being that many different creeds in there. I think it is clear (except to fundo Xtians who feel threatened by any other way of life apart from their own, perhaps) that 9-11 atrocities were political acts. Bin Laden justified the act of attacking civilians on a military rationale, not a religious one. Terrorism is a politically motivated action. As to the priest in Iraq analogy, unless he had gone there specifically trying to convert people, or preaching for peace, what-have-you, it would still be a political act. Christians might try to claim him a religious martyr, but he wouldn't really have died for his religion, but in spite of it. The religious motivations behind extremist muslim terrorists are only an ignition point. The aims are political. If it were 3 billion mormons or amish, say, populating the mid-east, facing the same historical set of events since 1942, then it might be mormon/amish terrorists. Bad analogy, but I think the religious aspect of it is only part of the story. The fundamentalist christian fanatics & extreme right-wingers in power probably want to frame the conflict with mid-eastern groups as a religious us-vs-them, but it's a completely blinkered viewpoint, imho, the majority of it cretinous propaganda to cover the real issues.
  • /bald chick calling a nun a "bald chick" is in bad taste.
  • /bald chick calling a nun a "bald chick" is in bad taste. calling SinĂ©ad O'Connor a nun is crazy strange.
  • eh, well, I guess she's kind of a nun, in that she became ordained as a priest in a dissident catholic sect.
  • Aka Mother Bernadette Mary, for a while
  • ...her campaign to stamp out head lice in children. -from goetter's first link. That sounds like a totally effective way to get rid of head lice.
  • Too bad 'ol Jerome can't teach this crazy bitch to spell.... I wonder what the weather is like in Aphganistan right now... I am a Medical Doctor, and I still don't know how a hernia operation can be cancelled just like that! Well, I am a Human Person. Nice to meet you Medical Doctor! Why are the officers and NYFD people who died on 9-11 fucking regarded as "heroes?" They were doing their jobs. They're no more "heroes" as the soldiers who've died in Iraq, Bosnia, Aphganistan, or anywhere else. A friend of mine lost most of his Dept. No one is saying "Wow, those Admin Assistants, Accountants, and Marketing people were heroes! They died doing their jobs on 9-11!" I'm sick of this bullshit. The NYPD is a bunch of assholes on a power trip, and the NYFD are a bunch of frat boys. Fuck 'em.
  • Why are the officers and NYFD people who died on 9-11 fucking regarded as "heroes?" They were doing their jobs. Anyone who puts their own safety a distant second to the safety of others is a hero in my book, whether that's their job or not and whether they accept that tag or not. If you--in an attempt to save lives--run into a building in that's just been hit by a airliner, you've earned my respect (even if you are an asshole or a frat boy).
  • How utterly unsurprising. Whenever I see someone trying to twist the WTC attacks into anything other than what they are, I just shake my head. The people who believe in and support this sort of nonsense really do need a wake-up call.
  • I prayed to Jerome, and now I'm teh gay.
  • OK, so I was out of town for a while... but just to summarize: Cops etc who died on 9/11 trying to save others = heroes by any sensible definition of the word Al Qaeda = bad religion = silly USA = not really any more crazy fundamentalist relgious now then before the election