December 13, 2004

Scientists claim to have found a way to please everyone in the stem-cell research debate by making embryos that cannot develop into human beings.
posted by FedoraUndershirt 20 years ago
  • You can please some of the people all of the time or all of the people some of the time, but you cannot please all of the people all of the time. Bet this goes over like a lead balloon with the religionists. Or perhaps the Neo-Luddites (those against genetically engineered whatevers).
  • Wow, this is like a testtube Jesus. I'm sure Peter Cook is spinning in his grave.
  • Wow. I'm Scared. First, they will make this illegal by bestowing full human rights to all human gametes, even if they've been tricked into thinking they're zygotes (hope I got those terms right IANABiologist). Then I'll be arrested and detained for committing mass murder during my daily ritual of knocking one out... Woe is me the end is nigh...
  • I'm going to go out on a limb here and suggest that, just maybe, this won't please everyone. It sounds a lot like parthenogenesis. I wonder if these embryos really can't develop into genetic duplicates of the mother. Are they just calling everyone's bluff?
  • "These embryos contain two sets of chromosomes from the mother, but none from the father and so are unable to develop into babies." Why? That's a huge leap to make without explicating... as far as I recall, cells don't differentiate where the chromosome material came from, as long as they have enough to work with. And as far as I recall, most (uh, all) females have enough chromosomes to form a complete instruction set. Little help? (or, what ThreeDayMonk said)
  • Oh sure, it won't make humans. But it will make monkeys. This, I believe, is how Nostril was born. Right, big N? I distinctly remember you talking about mama being a beaker and daddy being a bunsen burner.
  • No...it'll make Super Duper Fist Fightin' Monkeys that run on AAA batteries and bathtub gin! Run for your lives!
  • I dunno forks, I wasn't there.
  • In which case, Nostril would be a parthogenetic female. But he's actually a wombat.
  • Score one for the religious right. The reason that people don't like cloning, or messing with the human genome, or copyrighting genes, is because it's creepy. Not because of religion. Religion is used to rail against things that people find creepy. The answer to "we need human embryos to harvest stem cells" (which is, in itself, creepy) is not "so we created a mutant human that cannot ever truly live" but "hey, we already destroy embryos for fertility treatment. Using those doesn't create more death than what exists." And one of the reasons that Bush prevailed is that a lot of people don't like things they find creepy on a viceral level, and unfortunately a lot of people feel like that with regard to stem-cell research and homosexuality, and a bunch of other things. That's the "values" vote. (And I hate to say it, but I think Bush appealed to people who didn't understand a lot of science and found it creepy, as those are attributes I perceive in him.)
  • I, for one, welcome our new Super Duper Fist Fightin' Monkeys that run on AAA batteries and bathtub gin overlords.
  • ThreeDayMonk I'd say they're not bluffing. Parthenogenesis cannot normally occur due to imprinting. Of course, with appropriate genetic engineering, you can get around this block (in mice). I wonder how useful these cells would be...imprinting is pretty important stuff.
  • Of course there will be objections. I object. Who wants creepy non-human blobs running around cutting into line at the grocery store and answering their cell phones at inappropriate times?
  • Well then, why are you living in New York?
  • GramMa lives in New York?
  • Seems like only yesterday that the Luddites were railing against blood transfusions and anesthesia because they found them creepy. Fundies don't like messing with the human genome because it undermines their argument that blastocysts are humans. Same as they don't like evolution theory because it shows their biblical bully pulpit to be a bunch of made up stories.
  • It's basically the same as the chicken eggs you buy at the supermarket. That's all I know.
  • Bluehorse: Oh, you mean WalMart. Tracicle: You've just singlehandedly ruined breakfast.
  • Then my work here is done. *puts up "closed" sign, locks door*
  • *sees tracicle's comment, has a flashback of the very first visit to Mofi where tracicle made an almost identical comment -- and something about a strawberry milkshake*
  • Dear god, am I so unoriginal that I steal comments from myself?
  • Hey, some of us like to feed on undifferentiated pseudo-foetal tissue!
  • Tracicle's building the ultimate "tastes like chicken" response which will work for everything.
  • The only fears I have about genetic engineering is that it might lead to this on accident. Now they want to do it on purpose? This doesn't bode well for the human race.
  • Mmut- If I were not trying to curtail my coarse tongue due to feared censure by Tracy, I'd be upfront about saying bullshit to your false equivalency. If you can't tell the difference between blood and babies, you aren't going to be able to convice anyone that this isn't, again, really creepy. And, if you can't convince people that while this is creepy, it's still in their best interests, you're going to once again give Karl Rove a dollar to spend.
  • I'd be more impressed if, instead of 'making embryos that cannot develop into human beings', these doctor types could develop embryos that were sure to develop into game show audience members, pop stars and 'celebrities', and then harvest whatever they wanted from them, causing as much pain as possible, over and over again, forever. Hell, if they could do that, I'd even donate a few dirty spoons to the surgery.
  • Ah, Mr. Knickerbocker: you may have come up with one of the all-time greats: Monkeyfilter: This doesn't bode well for the human race
  • Wow, I just noticed the book of interviews with David Cronenberg in the lower, right-hand corner...
  • Awesome link! I hope that this pans out.