December 13, 2004

Antony Flew, "negative atheist," responds to Internet rumors that he's found God. Follow-up to this MoFi thread.
posted by HawthorneWingo 19 years ago
  • Has anyone else seen that old Kids in the Hall sketch where they report that they've found God, and it turns out he's only three feet tall?
  • Yes! Wasn't that with Mr. Cabbage Head?? Man, I miss that show.
  • I'm pretty sure he re-renounced God because I called him a pussy.
  • "In short, I recognize that developments in physics coming on the last twenty or thirty years can reasonably be seen as in some degree confirmatory of a previously faith-based belief in god, even though they still provide no sufficient reason for unbelievers to change their minds. He said a mouthful there.
  • That was published in 2001. Flew is some kind of Deist or Solipist now. At 81, he's really giving into cowardice or perhaps Pascal's Wager, imho. Then again if mortality and death were easy to face we wouldnt have a need for religion and its myths.
  • Oh, crap. Sorry.
  • Actually: The controversy revolves around some remarks of Prof. Antony Flew that seems to allow different interpretations. Has Antony Flew ever asserted that "probably God exists"? Richard Carrier, editor in chief of the Secular Web quotes Antony Flew from a letter addressed to him in his own hand (dated 19 October 2004): "I do not think I will ever make that assertion, precisely because any assertion which I am prepared to make about God would not be about a God in that sense ... I think we need here a fundamental distinction between the God of Aristotle or Spinoza and the Gods of the Christian and the Islamic Revelations." This is not the first time that Professor Antony Flew's atheist position is attacked. In reaction to an internet campaign in 2001 that tried to brand him a "convert" to religious belief, Professor Antony Flew made the following statement. In 2003 he answered yet another campaign in this direction with the same statement. It is still now his latest official position in this regard. My question now is who the hell cares so much about whether this guy believes in God, and why?
  • I hear God is on tenterhooks waiting for his final answer...
  • My question now is who the hell cares so much about whether this guy believes in God, and why? This guy has been appointed by God to determine whether or not God exists. It all hinges on his decision. It's starting to not bode well for God. I guess maybe he shouldn't have appointed an atheist to the position, but then who am I to judge?
  • Thank God for that!
  • Is a negative atheist somebody who doesn't not believe in god?
  • No, it's someone who is an atheist from an alternate universe, with a goatee.
  • Anthony Flew, I'm quite sick of you, You silly old sod, Of course there's no God.
  • From Antony Flew Considers God... Sort Of -- [H]e is still quite certain that the Gods of Christianity or Islam do not exist, that there is no revealed religion, and definitely no afterlife of any kind... But he is increasingly persuaded that some sort of Deity brought about this universe, though it does not intervene in human affairs, nor does it provide any postmortem salvation. He says he has in mind something like the God of Aristotle, a distant, impersonal "prime mover." It might not even be conscious, but a mere force. In formal terms, he regards the existence of this minimal God as a hypothesis that, at present, is perhaps the best explanation for why a universe exists that can produce complex life. But he is still unsure. Okay, this pisses me off. So we don't know what caused the big bang (or whatever you canna call the start of the universe), so what? Why is it necessary to call whatever that was God? Even the God of Aristotle or whatever? You're right, Fes. He's a pussy.
  • It's just more blog-fodder for people who no longer have the election to fight over but can't find anything better to bash liberals with. Who gives a flying fuck what this old man thinks?
  • It's just more blog-fodder for people who no longer have the election to fight over but can't find anything better to bash liberals with. Liberal == Atheist? No wonder you lost the election...
  • briank is John Kerry?
  • who the hell cares so much Bingo. I cannot fathom the jowl-flapping outrage from the atheists. Though it is kind of cute. A negative atheist would be one of Huxley's agnostics.
  • briank is John Kerry? Maybe, but I was referring to American liberals. I find it interesting that an 81 year old man softening his atheist views gets so many people worked up. Why are so many self-proclaimed atheists so evangelical about their (non) beliefs that they feel the need to stamp out religion from the whole world? Why do they like to debate with believers and try to prove them wrong? Religion is an overwhelming force and it's here to stay. If you don't learn to live with it (and it's adherents) you're in for a very stressful existence. Try to keep the hard-core fundies out of elected office, though.
  • Why are so many self-proclaimed atheists so evangelical about their (non) beliefs that they feel the need to stamp out religion from the whole world? We figure it's less bloody that way. Plus, you know, Sundays off.
  • I'll extend my remarks a bit. The post-election antagonism has reinvented itself. Prior to the election season, it was "right-wing" versus "left-wing", and then "Republicans vs Democrats". Bush's win and the swell of attention at evangelical and/or fundamentalist Christians has recast this as "Christians vs Atheists", but it is still the same pissing match between essentially the same two groups of people. Witness the similar uptick in "creationism vs evolution" stories. It's all fapping material and big-dick swinging and it's worthless. Nobody gives a good rat's ass about this aging philosopher and whether or not he believes in God at this late point, nor does it prove a fucking thing except that people sometimes change their mind.
  • A statement today from the North Pole sought to dampen down intense speculation about a possible statement from Antony Flew. A smiling elf said: "You people are just going to have wait and see what he does with his stockings on Christmas Eve."
  • Why are so many self-proclaimed atheists so evangelical about their (non) beliefs that they feel the need to stamp out religion from the whole world? Why do they like to debate with believers and try to prove them wrong? From YOU, dad. I learned it from WATCHING YOU. :)
  • Is it me or has the mood here changed lately? I can't tell if people are trolling just to be snarky, legitimately angry, or nicotine-deprived, or what. But it seems lately MoFi is troll central.
  • But it seems lately MoFi is troll central. I just want to point out that I was trolling in MoFi back when it wasn't cool.
  • I fucking hate all you goddam troll bastard child molester pervert freaks too.
  • A bucket of cockpunch all the way around is in order.
  • This is trolling? I see snark, I don't see trolls. Sometimes I'm tempted to write a script that automagically changes comments with the word "troll" to Wingdings, or something.
  • Sounds like an idea a troll would have. It has seemed a bit edgier around here lately, but hardly trollish.
  • From YOU, dad. I learned it from WATCHING YOU. Shawnj, you just brought back childhood memories that I thought would never return. Thanks for that!
  • Anyone who thinks here there be trolling hasn't posted on usenet. This is not trolling, this is monkey screeching & genital display. Quite normal. "Nobody gives a good rat's ass about this aging philosopher and whether or not he believes in God at this late point, nor does it prove a fucking thing.." That's what I said.
  • :-)
  • I like to call it wankerism.
  • No god = No church bingo Just think of it.
  • Look around...if you don't see a troll, that means the troll is you.
  • First they came for the trolls, and I did nothing...
  • After 81 years, I started to believe in Troll. Not the Trolls of Mofite and Mefite, but some sort of Troll brought about the Interverse, though it does not univene in web affairs, nor does it offer real world salvation or know how to spell. It's more like the Troll of Aristotle, a distant "prime troller". It might not even intelligent, just reflex.
  • Troll is dead.
  • Sometimes I'm tempted to write a script that automagically changes comments with the word "troll" to Wingdings, or something. Here is the potential collateral damage of such a shock-and-awe policy:
    com(p)troller(s(hip(s))) controllabilit(y|ies) controllable controlled controlling decontroll(ed|ing) (in|non|over)controll(ed|ing|able) outroll(ed|ing|s) patrolle(d|r(s)) patrolling stroll(e(d|r|s)|s) trolley(bus(es|ing)|ed|s|ing) trollie(d|s) trollop(s|y) trolly(ing) uncontrollabilit(y|ies) uncontrollabl(e|y) uncontrolled
  • Which would prevent us reading these memoirs of an 'uncontrollable'.
  • I came for the trolls, and stayed for the snark.
  • Troll: the ancient Yuletide carol.
  • Call it my project to clean up the English language. Although being unable to say "trollop" would be a great loss indeed.
  • Why are so many self-proclaimed atheists so evangelical about their (non) beliefs that they feel the need to stamp out religion from the whole world? Why do they like to debate with believers and try to prove them wrong? That's so true. For example, every student of Madeline Murray O'Hair University must take a 2 year mission to the South Seas to convince natives to become un-religious. I snark, I snark. Really though, this old fart can believe whatever he pleases. If he enjoys the "redefine the word God until it has no meaning because you secretly know the idea of a giant man in the sky with a beard is absurd" game, as so many do, that is his perogative.
  • ...giant man in the sky with a beard... I hear he's trimmed it into a goatee...much more contemporary.
  • That's the Master your thinking of, rocket88. And thats not heaven, its just one of the rooms in his TARDIS
  • My question now is who the hell cares so much Well, you posted the link. Nobody gives a good rat's ass about this aging philosopher Yeah, right, cos Antony Flew is, like, 81 or something, and that's like, really really old, and being old is, like, soooo uncool. Flew says his whole life has been guided by the Socratic principle, 'follow the evidence wherever it leads'. That sounds like a pretty good motto to me, but I can see why some people might feel threatened by it.
  • The evidence leads me to believe humans are dumb.
  • No, I think they talk quite a bit in general. *runs away*
  • Well, anyway glares @ Alnedra I'm glad that we appear to have recovered from this bout of Flew.
  • The evidence leads me to believe that I'm probably I'm having a bad acid trip, and it's been happening for a decade. Ozzy Ozbourne has replaced Bill Cosby as America's Dad, Martha Stewart is in prison, and we have a crackhead President?! There is no fucking way this is reality. The evidence leads me to believe this is all imaginary. I don't know if I imagined it first, or someone else imagined it first and then relayed it to me, but this is all definitely imaginary. Therefore, God exists.
  • This just in: Ronald Reagan is still dead!
  • Well, you posted the link. I don't understand how this fact means I shouldn't wonder who cares about it or why.
  • Fuyugare, you're slipping. Ronnie is a zombie, remember? I second Nostrildamus comment about USENET. We don't want to go there. It's like a theme park for people with personality disorders.
  • Well, you posted the link. I don't understand how this fact means I shouldn't wonder who cares about it or why. Well, it does show that you care about it, though you haven't done a good job at explaining why you care.
  • Knick: It provided further information that might be of interest to people who'd been part of the earlier Flew discussion. Didn't realize the link needed any more introduction than that. Not sure why I'm getting called out for this -- really, what's the big deal?
  • Not sure why I'm getting called out for this -- really, what's the big deal? No one is calling out your FPP. It's actually you that is complaining about your own FPP. If you are really trying to avoid paying attention to what Flew thinks, posting his thoughts aren't going to help you to avoid his thoughts. It's not a call out, and not a big deal. It's just giving me a chuckle watching someone complain about themselves. Anyways, I have to run on down to the park. I'm going to flash my weiner at people, and then ask them why they're looking at my penis ;)
  • I don't think your logic holds, Knick: I post a link because I think people might be interested in it. I question why people are interested in it. The two statements are not at all mutually exclusive.
  • And where'd I ever say I was trying to avoid paying attention to what Flew thinks? D'oh!
  • To extend your metaphor, it's not YOUR weiner you're gonna flash down at the park. It's a picture of someone else's weiner. Man, sometimes I crack myself up.
  • You should have posted it in the other thread.
  • Shoot me.
  • Some people make me feel like, "online community," my ass.
  • No
  • I'm just saying, there's been some pretty unjustified banana flinging 'round these parts of late. Yes, I should have posted the link to the other thread. But still.
  • Fair enough.