December 02, 2004

• oh yeah, for you cricketers out there, they're baseball players. :)
• Joe: "Sorry, but I can't say that, Mr. Queso." Really, though, it's just a matter of time before evidence proving Bonds was juicing comes out. It's been so obvious for so long. It's not only his achievements and these admissions, it's his body, which changed dramatically when he was in his 30s.
• Let 'em use steriods if they want. It's their body. I'd be much more interested in baseball if they all turned themselves into circus freaks.
• I suspect that an enormous amount of baseball players use and have used performance enhancing drugs. It may be most of the players. The drugs only became banned by baseball recently. It is certainly possible that Bonds has not taken them since they were banned. It is possible that he has. What is impossible is that Barry is the only one who has been taking magical drugs which turn him into super-hitter. Have you seen his stats versus the rest of the league? His OPS is 2-300 points higher than the rest of the league's year in and year out. No matter what he has taken, it does not diminish his accomplishments in my eyes. If he has taken banned substances after they were banned, then he should be punished accordingly. Steroids are used in nearly every sport. Football tests for them because it is so obvious that they were being used. It was embarrassing. Want to bet that most of the NBA uses them? Of course they do. Have you seen the bodies of NBA players now versus fifteen years ago? Have you seen the bodies of NBA players versus their rookie seasons? Like baseball, the NBA will not test until it becomes a big controversy. Look at Michael Jordan's rookie body versus his body in the late nineties. It underwent an enormous change. Would the public's opinion of Michael Jordan's achievements change if they learned that he took steroids? Probably not. People do not associate steroids with becoming a better basketball player.
• Jason Giambi used steroids?!? No way! Glad to see he admits it, at least.
• I'm a big baseball fan. It is super evident that a lot of players are using steroids, and this makes me sad. Not only does it wreck the notion to little kids that if they work hard enough, they can be Bonds (or whomever -- I know this is a pipe dream to most kids, but the drugs set up a dangerous notion. I knew guys in high school experimenting with steroids b/c the pros did it), it also sets up an entire generation of players who will have leetle teeeny testicles and cancer-ridden bodies in their later years. I agree with bernockle that steroids didn't affect Bond's phenominal talent. Without the drugs, though, do you think he would have been more of a great hit for average/fast runner type of guy? (you know, a *baseball* player and not a home run derby player?) Of course, I'm old school. I'm still mad about the DH rule, and that happened before I was born
• Poor Jeremy Giambi. He took steriods and still can't hit for dick. Heh. Just goes to show ya...
• To extend what bernockle said, steroids gives you a few more home runs that would have been long fly outs. Steroids do not make you the greatest offensive player in the history of the sport. Of course, we're not really talking about steroids. Maybe there really is a drug that gives you the hand-eye coordination to hit a ball into the gap or to tell a ball from a strike. That said, it just keeps looking worse for Bonds. Of course, this wouldn't even be an issue if the players' union didn't block drug testing at every turn.
• after reading the article, my husband suggested that if these guys are so willing to take anything to help their performance (without even knowing what the crap is first), wouldn't it just take one sick person inside Balco to poison a large number of these "top" athletes?
• I don't know. I am assuming for this argument that Bonds did knowingly take them (which I think is probably true, but is at this point wholly circumstantial and/or hearsay), at any rate, if steroids didn't affect Bonds' talent why would he bother to take them? I am not saying that the juice made some nobody into Barry Bonds, but it seems to me very likely that the juice made Barry Bonds into BARRY BONDS, if you get my meaning. Even if the edge he got from them was largely a psychological one it was STILL an edge. Slightly off topic, but I hate this talk of Bonds being the best player ever. Better than Ruth. Feh. Pshaw. Phooey. Horsepucky. What is Bonds' career pitching line? That's what I thought.
• You can only usefully compare a player against his peers. Anything else is just fantasy entertainment. Bonds is far above his peers. Bonds is much farther apart from his peers than anyone since Babe Ruth. No one will ever be as far apart from their peers as Babe Ruth and Wilt Chamberlain. The times were different. The chances of a person with the basketball or baseball skills to be the best player in the world not making it to the professional level today are almost zero. Back then, it that was not the case. Not every child in most countries of the world dreamed of playing in the NBA or MLB. And don't forget the whiteness of the game when Ruth played. It is interesting that many people scream "Babe Ruth!" when someone calls Bonds the best ever, but very few people screamed "Wilt Chamberlain!" when people said the same about Michael Jordan. Have you ever actually seen Chamberlain's statistics?

• Not every child in most countries of the world dreamed of playing in the NBA or MLB.

  I hat to break this to you, but I sincerely doubt that msot children in most countries give a fuck about baseball. Basketball? Maybe. But offer an Indian or Aussie kid a choice between basketball and cricket, and I think you'll find it doesn't hold there, either.
• in terms of knowing what they were taking I meant the pills, not the steroids. reminds me of when I worked in a pharmacy and a dude called us to ask what the blue pills did (he'd just swallowed a bottle). as for not screaming "Wilt Chamberlain," I guess most folks figure that enough women did that during his lifetime.
• Baseball is not as global as basketball. That is certainly a good point. But kids in the US didn't grow up dreaming of playing baseball in the early part of the past century. Now they do. And now they do in most of Latin America and Southeast Asia. My point was that the pool was much, much smaller then than it is now.
• Yeah, I don't know if I actually buy the line that these men were given different colors of pills to take (or "the cream" and "the clear," which are about to enter my own vernacular)and didn't ask what they were. These guys live off of their bodies exclusively, and the people giving them the pills were not doctors but trainers. It just strikes me as odd. Then again, I'm not sure that Jason and Jeremy Giambi are the sharpest tacks in the box.
• "[thinks a moment] Oh my God. You, you're right, Timmy. You're totally right. [walks up to the mic and begins talking] Everyone, can I have your attention, please? [everyone falls silent] I'm afraid I have to give back my medal. The truth is, I haven't been playing fair either. I've been using st-steroids. I was willing to do anything to be the best, and the steroids made me blind to the people I was hurting. [a shot of Nancy, injured and taped around the head. She smiles] A good friend even tried to talk me out of it, and I wouldn't listen to him. [a shot of Timmy, who smiles and shows off his silver medal. Others around him wear bronzes.] Taking steroids is just like pretending to be handicapped at the Special Olympics. [a shot of a chastened Cartman before the baseball players] Because you're taking all the fairness out of the game. But I know now that even if you do win on steroids, you're really not a winner. You're just a p-pussy. You're just a [shot of Mark McGuire] big fat p-p...p...pussy, and if you take steroids, the only decent thing to do is come forward and say, [shot of Barry Bonds] "Remove me from the record books, because I am a big, stinky p-pussy-" [shot of Jason Giambi] "-steroid-taking jackass." [Giambi nods ever so subtly] That's how I feel about myself, and why I must decline this medal and my place in the history books. And if you'll let me, I'll be back next year. To compete with honor. [applause rises from the stands, followed by cheers. The volunteers and baseball players gather around Jimmy]" (someone had to post this)
• I laughed so hard when I first saw that.
• Wilt Chamberlain, Barry Bonds, Babe Ruth ... do you know who's really never going to come again? That would be Don Bradman. That would be a fellow who averaged 99.94 in a sport where an average of 60 gets you into the "all time great" class. Statistically, no other player has dominated any sport to this extent. Dig?
• Wolof We're talking about a real sport here. On the other hand, cricket is cute (in a Special Olympics kind of way)
• I'll give Bonds a free pass on the hitting, just to be really really really nice. Let's not forget, however, that Ruth could pitch. And pitch well. The true greats have more then one dimension to their physical prowess. Just like Wilt. I'd like to see someone match his OTHER great statistic.
• yeah a lot of baseball players may use 'roids. But not NBA- that doesnt even make sense, it wouldnt even be helpful. The reason NBA players look different now is that they work out 365 days a year. Players in the past literally drank beer and smoked in the locker room at halftime. With or without steroids, today's athletes are miles beyond those of the past. You can argue Ruth/Bonds as far as who was better in his era. And you could say that if Ruth were alive today, he would train just like everyone else. But if Ruth literally fell out of a time warp, he would be no match for Bonds. And if Bonds travelled back in time (and if they let him play), he would dominate to an incredible degree. The more people do something over time, the better they tend to get.
• that's really what's wrong with sports today. not enough drinking, smoking or whoring.
• The latest - Barry Bonds now claims that he was using substances given to him by his trainer but "didn't know they were steroids." Riiiiight. (WP link, reg may be required.)
• wow. heard the interview with the SF Gate reporter who broke the story on NPR this morning, and he thought Bonds would go to his grave denying he'd used steroids.
• Does this mean his hitting record is void? Damn, and before Bonds I seriously couldn't give a damn about baseball. I almost went to a game at Pac Bell Park just to see him break that record. (Too expensive.)
• Before this story broke, my respect for Bonds was about 2 (out of 10). Now it's 0. Not because of the steroid use, but because he doesn't have the (shrunken) balls to own up to his misdeeds like a man.
• I read somewhere that even if true, the substances were not against the rules when Bonds used them. So they'd have a hard time retroactively applying a ban they just came up with and thus invalidating his record.
• Here's the latest - baseball creates a new drug policy. WP story here. (reg may be required)