December 02, 2004

• oh, and it's obviously my first FPP. I think the double [more insides] should give that away.
• Well, the burden of proof is on the plaintiff, not the defendant. So if you plead not guilty it's more their job to prove you ran a light (possibly a camera inside the police car or on the traffic light maybe). The real question would be the legality of entering an intersection to turn on a yellow light. The judge might be less favorable, especially if upon entering the middle of the intersection you had to wait for cars, while the light turned red. In short, it doesn't hurt to plead not guilty and explain the situation, but I would go ahead and plan on having the money ready anyways.
• From the little I know and have heard on the web, if you contest it in court, a lot of the time the police officer involved can't be bothered arguing his case and you can get away with it. But I don't know about where you are, but in NZ you're legally not supposed to enter an intersection unless you know you can make it, regardless of whether the light's green or yellow. So if it was yellow when you entered, if it goes red and you're still there you have broken the law. You maybe should check that out.
• Hey looky, genial said it better than me.
• What tracicle said: here the law says you *must* stop on a yellow *unless* you cannot do so safely.
• I put "how to get out of a traffic ticket into Google and while the first few hits are jokes, there appear to be lots of web sites to help you make this decision.
• Hmmm..I never thought that it might be illegal to enter during the intersection on a yellow light. And here I am, possibly deserving hundreds of tickets. I should turn myself in.
• State Traffic and Speed Laws might be helpful, particularly page 30 of the CT driver's manual which states that you 'must stop if it is safe to do so' when the light is yellow. If you entered the intersection on a yellow light, you might have broken the rule depending on how fast you were going.
• As a resident of this particular state, and a multiple moving violator myself, I give this advice: Send the ticket in not guilty. By sending it in, you allow for the occasional "Nolle" letter informing you that the case has been dropped. Even so, I recommend taking it to court. When you go, you talk to a prosecutor which is not the same as a trial. They will attempt to make a deal (usually $35 to the state or to charity, and no points on your license - which means no increase in insurance!) Go for it! Any further questions, feel free to drop me a line. *caveat* I'm not a lawyer, however, I have been through this several times for minor traffic problems such as this
• Of course, one can just observe the traffic laws and avoid an bunch of hassle. *ducks*
• Just explain that you didn't believe you could have stopped safely in time. Since it's your opinion, they can't really argue against it. If the road conditions were wet or otherwise not ideal, you'll probably get off easily. And what tracicle said is true. Often the police officer doesn't even show up in court. I don't see a downside to pleading not guilty.
• You were naughty. Don't do it again!
• IANAL, but I recall correctly from traffic school that I had to attend for speeding - the color of the light when you enter the junction is irrelevant - if the light is red and your IN the junction - it's a violation. This could be only California law of course and you're a right coaster - but they were quite definite about it. (However, they were also quite definite and adament about a few things that were patently false - these were not traffic cops but civilians contracted to 'teach' traffic school. "Its all right to go 5 or 10 miles an hour over the speed limit", "motorcycles aren't allowed to lane share", "on a motorcylce you have to place your foot on the ground at a stop sign" - which are all quite frankly bollocks) I suggest getting the PDF of your states driving handbook to check whether the 'it was yellow' defense is something that matters. Even if it DOESN'T matter (i.e. your guilty of the violation) you can contest the ticket. One of two things will happen - it will get talked down like horsemuth said, or you will go to court and the 'judge' (in quotes because for traffic its often not a real judge) will deal out your punishment. Its a coin flip. I successfully took a 153MPH ticket, no license, no insurance, no license plates and no registration to court, with a lawyer and got a single point and a $600 buck fine. I unsuccessfully challenged a 60mph speeding in a 35mph limit and got a $500 buck fine and a single point. I think I got off well light on the first set of offenses, and was arse-raped on the second one - I guess I'm saying, your day in court is a bit of a coin flip... When you get to traffic court (if CT is anything like CA) there's no 'prooving' anything. You'll stand before the judge, she/he will ask some simple questions like "were you driving the car", then she/he will say "why are you pleading not guilty", you'll say "the light was yellow" she'll say, "this officer here doesn't agree. Pay Up." To be honest, at $114 bucks, if you find that the 'yellow when I entered' defense is irrelevant, I'd just pay it and forget it.
• in new york, if you say not guilty on the ticket and mail it in, about a year later you get a summons to go to court. go to court, wait in line and without going to any sort of trial, they will offer you a lesser offense. in my case, it took a 75 in a 55 down to a failure to yield, which was about the same fine but no points on my insurance. you also had the option of going to trial, but they basically said, if you do, you will lose.
• I say fight it. I fought a ticket in Atlanta, officer said I ran a red to make a left turn. In court he said, i almost ran into him(when he was stopped at the yellow opposite me), that I was going South, rather than North, almost hit him, similar exaggerations. The judge realized what he was saying was wrong, let me go no fee, no charges. My officer clearly got the whole incident messed up, and I got of a bogus ticket because of it. Hope you can do the same.
• Definitely fight it if you feel you were in the right. If, worst cas scenario, you go to trial, odds are the cop won't remember the specifics of your case so you have a decent shot at winning. My dad once was ticketed for running a red light which was clearly green at the time. He had a witness in the car with him, took pictures of the intersection, the whole 9 yards. When he went to trial the judge started reading the officers' report aloud, realized the cop had stated the violation occurred at the intersection of 2 streets that can't possibly intersect, (West Street and 11th Ave in NYC,) dismissed the case and publicly berated the officer. My dad was thrilled he won, but disappointed he never got the chance to present his well-researched case.
• If the fine is not as important as the black mark on your record, you might want to bring in a lawyer. The one time I watched a traffic court proceeding, the lawyer made short work of the officers who actually attended (and as others have said, they mat not attend).
• Be thankful it wasn't in Chicago. You'd have been issued the ticket, plus a post-dated parking ticket and had your car impounded all at the same time. Then you'd go to get your car out of the impound yard, be told you have seven outstanding tickets issued on days you weren't anywhere near Chicago and that the total fines equal to more than your car is worth. Then, just to make sure that you'll never use motorized transportation in Chicago again, they'll suspend your drivers license for driving an unsafe vehicle. Why? Because the tow truck operator clipped a utility pole and ripped apart the drivers side and in Chicago ugly cars automatically equal unsafe cars. Then you'll go to court to fight this and they tell you to prove these things aren't true and not accept any of it, fine you some more just for being sassy, then they'll crush your car and give you nothing for it because the whole debacle lasted more than the 15 days a car is allowed to stay in the pound. Am I exaggerating? Yes, slightly. Am I exacerbated at the idea of owning a car in Chicago? Yes, hell yes. I use public trans now.
• Call a lawyer. Here in North Carolina, calling a lawyer for a traffic ticket can usually get it reduced to a non-moving violation and you wind up with no points on your license or your insurance (license and insurance points are not the same). Ask the lawyer specifically what she can do for you. As I don't know how things work in Connecticut, it may be nothing. But it may be something. It is definitely worth a shot. The lawyer will tell you exactly what she can do, if anything. Otherwise, find out if there is a driving school that reduces the charge or if there is some sort of Deferred Prosecution or Continued Judgment that you can ask the judge for that will protect your license and insurance. If none of these options is going to work for you, then I would plead not guilty as a last resort. It is too much of a burden on the state to try every traffic ticket. It would take forever. The more people who plead not guilty, the better the deals will get for everyone. I give you this advice as a criminal defense attorney who literally handles over a thousand traffic tickets per year as part of my practice.
• if the light is red and your IN the junction - it's a violation. Except here where it is possible to enter the intersection on green to make a left turn , but not be able to complete the turn until the light is red because all of the cars running the yellow. I have been stuck in an intersection until the other direction had green because of light runners. Note: Just because you have a green light doesn't mean you get to go. You do have to wait for the intersection to clear first! Don't honk at me because I was stuck waiting for light runners. Mississauga has some really bad drivers...
• As a fellow Connecticutian I commiserate with you; this whole yellow thing is how I flunked my first drivers test and how my wife flunked two. Damn yellow, I hate that your not green or least treated with the same general disregard that reds are show in other parts of the world.
• I have been stuck in an intersection until the other direction had green because of light runners. In WI it's illegal to enter the intersection unless you can clear it. The worst part about that behavior is the 5 or 6 people behind the first idiot who feel like they are entitled to go. Which holds up the people who have the green causing them to feel like they can screw the next bunch out of thier green. Round and round it goes. I think it demonstrates everything that is wrong with America. If it's that hard to turn left, go a block past and make three rights.
• In Ontario the proper place to wait for a left turn is in the intersection, directly across from the opposing left turn lane (This is from the drivers handbook and drivers ed.). You are supposed to be able to leave during the yellow light, except people run it.
• In my opinion, interactions with the law and the courts should always, for the sake of sanity, be minimized as much as is possible. Plead quilty, pay the ticket, ask for Court Supervision if available. Court supervision says that, if you plead guilty and do not get another moving violation in 90 days, the ticket comes off your record. The converse is, get another ticket inside the 90 and both tickets are submitted to your insurance company, which'll cost you a lot more than a hunnert bucks. Fight it without a lawyer and it's a crapshoot. Fight it with a lawyer and it's going to cost you way more than the fine itself. With both, you have to take time off work/family/fun/whatever to go to court, which is just marginally more a hoot than, say, a no-local colonoscopy. Pay the fine, get court supervision, be good for 90 days, fuggedaboutit.
• I missed that question on my Oregon DL test. You do have to stop for yellow lights here. This makes me wonder why we don't have the sweet system they have in China, where the light shrinks as it gets closer to switching to red. That would make arguments about whether you will be able to get through the intersection before it turns red a lot cleaner and more reasonable.
• Coincidently, I have also received a ticket in NC, and can fully attest to what bernockle says about North Carolina. In Connecticut however, the average person can get the same breaks with regard to fines and points against insurance that the lawyer does (though lawyers get to go first in line), and unless you decide that what the prosecutors immediately offer is not worthwile and want to take the case to trial (in which case you would be foolish to not have a "law-talkin' guy"), you will be fine without one.
• DON'T pay the fine. There is no Court Supervision for motor vehicles in CT, and you automatically get the points applied to your license (which stay there for 5 years BTW)if you plead guilty. No, No, No!!!
• FancyPlans, I think I can help you with some sage advice. But first, just ignore everything else that everyone has said in this thread - they are all murderous liars who are trying to trick you into the electric chair. Basically, what you need to do is get some cheerleaders - maybe about 10 or 12 of them, costumes, pom-poms, the whole deal. Then when you go to court they can do some dance routines, instead of all that boring legal argument crap. "2-4-6-8 WHO DO WE EXONERATE? THE DEFENDANT! THE DEFENDANT!" - that sort of thing. For maximum effect, they should all bend over and shoot party streamers outta their ass whenever the Judge or the police mention you by name. And, you're found guilty, they should crap all over the courtroom floor.
• On review, I must defer to quidnunc's sage advice. I like the g.g. allin cheerleader approach much better.

• The more people who plead not guilty, the better the deals will get for everyone.

  Now there's a thoroughly moral position we can all learn from. Why take responsibility for your own actions, when you can game the system/. Hey, maybe if enough of us drive drunk and burgle houses, we can get away with that, too!
• Never claimed to be on the moral high road. In fact, I am not even sure if I know where it is. Anyone?
• UPDATE! I just received my get out of jail free card. I plead not guilty to the ticket and the prosecuting attorney dumped the case. Whoo hoo.
• like a polluted river flowing the freeways are a psychological entanglement of warped souls, dying flowers in the dying hours of the dying day, old cars, young drivers, new models driven by aged men, driven by drivers without licenses, by drunk drivers, by drugged drivers, by suicidal drivers, by super-cautious drivers (the worst). drivers with minds like camels, drivers who piss in their seats, drivers who love to kill, drivers who love to gamble, drivers who blame everybody else, drivers who hate everybody, drivers who carry guns. drivers who don't know what rearview mirrors are for, what the turn signals are for, drivers who drive without brakes, drivers who drive on bald tires. drivers who drive slowly in the fast lane, drivers who hate their wives or their husbands, and want to make you pay for that. unemployed drivers, pissed. all these represent humanity in general, totally enraged, demented, vengeful, spiteful, cheap denizens of our culture, vultures, jackals, sharks, suckerfish, stingrays, lice ... all on the freeway along with you tailgating, cutting in and out, cheating themselves, leering, their radios blaring the worst music ever written, their gas tanks nearly empty, engines overheating, minds over the next hill, they don't know how to drive or live, they know less than a snail crawling home. they are what you see every day going from nowhere to nowhere, they elect presidents, procreate, decorate their Christmas trees. what you see on the freeway is just what there is, a funeral procession of the dead, the greatest horror of our time in motion. I'll see you there tomorrow! -- Charles Bukowski
• Bees, that was beautiful. *sniff*