November 12, 2004

• damn it! I can't access MSNBC from work!
• In reading the article it appears that much had been done short of this to disarm this student. It also appears that he had already cut himself at least twice. You're right, Tenacious, this is one disturbed 6 year old. But, I'm not sure that the police are at fault here. Without being in the situation I have no way of knowing that they responded in an inappropriate manner by using a taser. I would guess that the use of the taser was less likely to result in more injury to the student than trying to "rush" him. I would be curious to know if anyone has any firm data that states that the use of a taser is more dangerous in the case of a child than it is for an adult. I worked in psych hospitals for about 10 years, civilian and military, disarming an individual that is attempting to hurt him/herself or others is always a tricky situation. You make the best call you can, often under pressure, and always knowing that someone could find fault with whatever decision you make. How about we cut these guys a little slack on this one?
• That's really creepy, on almost all levels. The kid had already sliced his hand, leg and under his eye when they shocked him, so the kid's obviously off his rocker. But the idea of a taser being the only solution - it's just insane.
• The 6 year old cut his own eye and leg with a piece of broken glass first apparently. Hard to say what to do without being there.
• HuronBob: Hmm... I guess I should give them some slack on this. On reconsideration, I've worked with an autistic kid of the same age who, when he was agitated, could barely be taken down by two or three adults, so I guess their use of taser isn't as terrible as my initial reaction made it out to be. The situation itself, though, is still pretty nuts.
• Having a five year old myself, I have to call bullshit. If you're close enough to hit him with a taser, you're close enough to grab him by the wrists. And I don't buy the argument that if you don't want to cause serious injury, the best thing to do is hit him with 50KV. Those things are made to take down grown people--they don't have a "toddler" setting. I think I can fault the police. Maybe they didn't want to take a chance on getting cut by the six year old, but hell, isn't that their job or something?
• Couldn't they have squirted him in the face with a water hose or something?
• Maybe they could have called in the Vampire Watermelons.
• Well at least they didn't shoot him wiht pepper spray.
• Like I said (sort of), this was a "damned if you do, damned if you don't!" situation. Those cops were going to get sued no matter WHAT they did.
• That's as may be, HuronBob, but that doesn't mean they might as well 'lectrocute the tot. I guess I'm hypersensitive to this kind of stuff. I have these horrible mental images of my son getting treated like this (though hopefully not for the same reasons) and it really bugs me. I know police are in a bad situation all over, and I feel for them, but one of the reasons they're vilified is shit like this.
• There was a similar case, here in Ontario, a few years ago. In that case the child was killed by suffocation as the adults tried to subdue him. I agree that the use of a taser is reprehensible. Crisis intervention skills for immobilising children seem to have gone drastically downhill from when I worked with youths. At that time we were all trained in various holds for children. I even tried to break out of them and couldn't.
• Was he taunting cops by promising to vote for a Democrat as soon as he turns 18?
• dxlifer: your kid-fu is superior to mine.
• Interesting... I did a google search on this... over 33,000 hits on Taser + Children...this ain't the first time! A couple of articles that state that Taser International says about 10 incidents of tasers being used with children, some were accidental. Let me state that I do NOT advocate any kind of abuse of children, I've raised my own, they can be somewhat amusing and make good pets, and, when you grow tired of them after 18 years or so, unlike dogs that have to be taken to the shelter, they can just be set free to fend for themselves in the wild.
• Not to defend (or excoriate for that matter) the cops, but: By the time I'd graduated high school, I'd been hit, repeatedly, with shocks of upwards of 200,000 volts by other students as the teacher encouraged them. Which is to say, we had a Van de Graaf generator to play with. And earlier this week in the grocery store, I zapped my wife with, oh, between 10,000 and 100,000 volts. Several times. Voltage schmoltage.
• And earlier this week in the grocery store, I zapped my wife with, oh, between 10,000 and 100,000 volts. Several times. kinky. Obviously it's all the principal's fault for keeping a glass frame in his office.
• Hey, HuronBob, I like your mindset. I'll have to forward this to my daughter re: the grandkids.
• A couple of articles that state that Taser International says about 10 incidents of tasers being used with children, some were accidental. This is shocking news (sorry). But how do you "accidently" use a taser on someone? You'd have to be pretty fucking clumsy.
• I got the chills, they're multiplyin' And I'm looooooo-sin' control! Cause the power you're supplyin'-- IT'S ELECTRIFYIN'! Electrifyin'! Electrifyin'....
• I'm sure some people here would be singing a completely different tune if the kid had fell on said broken glass and ended up cutting an artery or something. I, for one, applaud the officers actions in subduing the kid. Getting tased isn't pleasant but it does the job.
• But how hard is it to just grab the kid's hand??
• Much harder than pulling a trigger.
• I for one don't see how tasing the kid ruled out having the kid fall on the broken glass. I've seen videos of people hit with tasers, and there's a whole lot of flop-and-jerkin' going on. In fact, I would hypothesize that tasing would actually increase the likelihood of the kid or some bystander getting hit by glass. (*zap!* *fling!* *slice!*) I suppose by the same logic they could have gone the "Speed" route and shot the kid in the foot. Sure, it hurts, but it gets you out of the situation.
• TenaciousPettle has taunted the evil DJ who lives in my head and now, Grease is the frickin' word (it's the word, it's the word). You must now be Tased. Zzzzzzzzzzap!
• TP: I hate that song. For the longest time, I couldn't hear it as "You're the one that I want." Instead, I heard, and I am not making this up, "Yuggaweggalaweg, yuggaweggalaweggalaweg, ooh ooh ooh." Who knew John and Olivia were playing Cthulhu cultists? Now, if you will excuse me, I needs must deliver a smooch unto this gentleman.
• He most likely lost his grip on the glass due to muscle spasms during the tasing process. Speaking from someone who has been electrocuted on several occasions, you are unable to grip anything in your hand... I also sincerely doubt the glass would have landed point up on the ground for him to fall on. However, If he had a firm grip on the glass and was tackled, or if you tried to grab his hand, nothing would stop him from squeezing down on the glass shard, as I doubt he had time to fashion a hilt. If anything, it would ensure that he would cause further injury to himself, resulting in deep lacerations to his palm and fingers, possible self-inflicted stab wounds, or stab wounds to the staff or officers. I recently cut myself on plate glass, and bled for three days straight (I refused medical attention, what can I say, I'm stubborn). Tasing is an effective, non lethal form of subduing an agressor, be they child or adult. Perhaps it seems a little barbaric due to the target's age, but having 50,000 volts (- amps) running through your body really doesn't do a damn thing to you.
• At that time we were all trained in various holds for children. I even tried to break out of them and couldn't. There's a big difference between drilling something and dealing with a situation. Cats are small, but try putting a hold on one.
• Plus, even if it was the wrong decision, he made a decision and the kid's alive. He didn't have time to fuck about.
• I can honestly say I'd rather be tased than have a hood put on my head and my nuts hooked up to a car battery any day! politics, w00t!
• America: We need to talk
• I can honestly say I'd rather be tased than have a hood put on my head and my nuts hooked up to a car battery any day! If you're feeling sad and lonely, There's a service I can render. Tell the one who loves you, only, I can be so warm and a taserer. Call me. Don't be afraid, you can Call me. Maybe it's late, but just Call me. Tell me and I'll be around. etc. Doo-doo-doo-doo.. Yeah!
• You're such a tase.
• Ah, Florida.
• I charge by the kilowatt hour.
• Yeah, seriously though, Florida has a real thing for having their law enforcement and the justice system really nail kids to the wall. Wasn't a ten-year-old sentenced to life in prison a few years ago? (Its like a game of oneupsmanship with Texas or something. Don't get me started on the Jeb and George symbolism. Urgh.)
• Future headline: Florida Approves Use of Cattle Prods in Day Care Official: "We prefer the term 'CrackleSticks.' "
• Oh, man, I can't joke about this story, or turn it into a political metaphor, or what have you. The poor kid. My heart goes out to him.
• I like "CrackleSticks!" You should copyright that.
• On a serious note, while I didn't blame these officers in this instance for tasing the kid: IMHO quick decision, no harm done, I just finished watching an episode of Cops, which gave me some cause for alarm. I believe this was Boston, and it appears the cops had just gotten new tasers, which look exactly like guns from a distance (with the exception of tape around the "barrel" consisting of yellow and black stripes, much like construction barricade tape). Arriving on the scene of a one on one fist fight, the female cop kept yelling "LET ME TASE 'IM, LET ME TASE 'IM!!!" even before the standard "Break it up you guys" speech was delivered. After separating the duelists, the female cop proceeded to tase one of the fellows as he lay on the floor, seemingly, just because she wanted to. Mind you, the sex of the officer means nothing to me, but the willingness to use the taser was a bit offputting... hrm...
• There's a big difference between drilling something and dealing with a situation. True enough; however I am damned wiry and strong and it took the instructor to finally hold me. I was bruised up and my colleagues had a better learning experience. Upon reflection, though, I have to wonder how the whole situation deteriorated to such a state. I would have thought that intervention would come long before a child reaches such a state of destructive agitation. I suppose I should follow the proffered example and just forward on to my daughter also. I'm obviously out of touch with the taserest times.