November 07, 2004

Man Distraught Over Election Commits Suicide at Ground Zero --Via The Raw Story.
posted by squidranch 20 years ago
  • How are the Democratic party going to win next time if its supporters do this?
  • "You got to accept what happened and not kill yourself." well, that about sums it up.
  • I stayed in bed all day Wednesday and ate a box of doughnuts. I thought that was excessive.
  • Someone in California did the same thing in 1980, saying in his note: "I just can't take another four years of Reagan." If only he'd known.
  • This is so sad, it breaks my heart. I still harbor some hope that our country will heal, but somedays it is difficult to maintain that hope.
  • How are the Democratic party going to win next time if its supporters do this? Why, voter fraud, of course. We'll make our own voting machine company.
  • Yes, because let's face it, without voter fraud, there is no real hope. Lefties aren't typically known for owning guns, so there goes any hope for a 'second revolution', we don't have any influence in the judiciary, so there goes any hope of any legal representation, journalism in this country is pretty much bought and paid for, so there's no hope there, our bosses are, let's face it, more conservative and controlling than liberal and free, police, fugedaboutit, military, stuck overseas in a war they would probably rather not fight at this point, and being increasingly privatized (corporate military), FBI, CIA, NSA, other investigative agencies increasingly pressured to 'just toe the line, tell us what we want to hear', immigration processes are terribly difficult, our congressional and senatorial interests are firmly in the back pockets of the rich and powerful and definitly not working for 'the majority', protestors in the streets are, while their hearts are in the right place, really ineffective and, pretty much a sad joke. Not trying to rain on anyone's parade here, but we really need to face facts here: we do not have a representative government, nor have we had one for many decades now. So what's next? Do we start going out, buying guns, getting involved, *truly involved* in a third party such as the greens or the libertarians, remove electronic voting as a means to vote altogether (don't get me started on a paper reciept printed out by the machine) or do we learn to live on our knees while smiling at our master's feet? Well, how about it? Are we free humans or are we cattle to be herded around at our master's behest? Or do we take the route that the person who commited suicide did? As for me, I am re-reading Orwell's '1984' and catching up on the history of Stalinism in the U.S.S.R. because let's face it folks, without a really effective resistance to all that's occured over the past several years, there is no hope. There is only hope if you each, individually and together, make that hope. Look to those countries that resisted Stalinism such as Hungary and Czechoslovakia, look at countries that are experiencing economic hardship now inflicted by this country such as Argentina. Study what they are doing or did and start incorporating that into what you and others are going to do to win back control of this country. Look at Venezuala. Look at the FARC in Columbia. But don't look here. Here there be dragons.
  • pathetic.
  • scartol, it would have had to have happened in 84 if it was "...another four years..." If memory serves me, Reagan was elected as president the first time in 1980, unless he was referring to his stint as governator.
  • Actually mk1gti, as a long time advocate of gun control, this election makes me re-think my position. To change things might actually take more of a Malcom X approach than a Martin Luther King.
  • That's my point exactly. Malcolm X vs. Martin Luther King. Pandering to the right, 'trying to understand them' is exactly the wrong approach. I mean really, do we want to sacrifice moral value for the sake of our spiritual health? I've been monitoring threads on the net, talking to people in the neighborhood and I think the blinders are really coming off. The time for discussing things has passed. Other measures are worthy of consideration. I think this poster sums if up very nicely. . . http://www.blackteasociety.org/propaganda/minuteman.jpg
  • I'm for hitting the corporate/GOP axis where it hurts: the pocketbook. Gay people everywhere should refuse to pay taxes and boycott products until we get treated like full citizens and human beings. Economic pressure worked for the NAACP, just as much as non-violent resistance. Malcolm X didn't hurt, either, as a reminder to the Right of the consequences of oppression.
  • I think everyone should stop paying their taxes as they are not going to infrastructure to support our people and provide jobs. It is okay to not pay taxes if you notify the IRS of your intent and place that money into alternatives. Look it up on the net. As far as boycotting products, I've thought about that too. Boycott every major name brand out there, period. If you shop at a large grocery store, look into alternatives. As much as possible, only support local businesses, work for local businesses, buy a used car instead of a new one, stop going to movies, cut off your cable television (you'll be surprised how much better you feel and how much time you free up.) Buy cheap gas from a mini-mart (it's all the same). Everywhere you spend money, look at alternatives to major corporate brands and spend your money elsewhere. Start taking public transportation more if you have that option, you'll be surprised how much money you save and how much stress you reduce. Instead of buying books, check them out at a library, or use a bookstore as a reading room, then put the book back on the shelf and come back to it later. Think of ways you can starve this undeserving economy of your hard-earned dollars and put them into place. They aren't working for you, why should you work for them?
  • Bush barely won this election by 140k votes on Ohio because of the fluke event of 9/11. When Iraq (now under martial law) and the economy go totally to shit people will realize their error and elect a Dem. in '08. I think maybe it's an eensy weensy bit premature to be claiming "we" need a violent revolution. Come on, can we get serious here? we do not have a representative government, nor have we had one for many decades now. Yes we do. More people voted for Bush, Bush won. The lack of perspective is insane to me sometimes. I know that all of us here are upset, but our incredibly comfortable lives are going on just as they did before the election. Let me know when someone you know is arrested and tortured by the FBI for voting Kerry or calling Bush names and I will join your revolution. Until then i will support democrats for Congress in '06, get involved locally, and continue to be thankful that I live in a society that guarantees me freedoms unprecedented in human history, regardless of who the current president is.
  • drjimmy, the election was rigged. End of discussion. Anyone who's done any research at all knows that. These issues have been going on for years. We've been discussing them for years. I'm sorry you're so ignorant and uninformed, but you are. I cannot think of a time when more people across this country and in my neighborhood and in other countries are so afraid or disillusioned of their own government and I've been around for quite some time now. I've lived through the worst days of the Cold War, been in Germany when the Berlin Wall went up, and have read (and seen) so very, very much. I do not claim to 'know it all', but I know much, much more than you. Go off and be cattle in the field. Let the rest of us examine a very real problem and find solutions to it.
  • Well, I'm glad that's settled.
  • I do not claim to 'know it all', but I know much, much more than you. This from the guy who says "It is okay to not pay taxes if you notify the IRS of your intent and place that money into alternatives." As much as I would love for you to be right, this is, sadly, incorrect. A while back I wrote about a pacifist who was refusing to pay taxes... the IRS was not only going after her, but the religious organization she worked for as well because they refused to garnish her wages. Self-link.
  • mk1gti- I've been wallowing in liberal despair as much as anyone, but I don't think comments like "the election was rigged. End of discussion. Anyone who's done any research at all knows that" are even remotely constructive. We've been sniggering about how MeFi has been reduced to an echo chamber of shrill, dogmatic liberals, but your comments in this thread are just as bad as anything I've come across on MeFi. "I'm sorry you're so ignorant and uninformed, but you are." Surely you can find somewhere else to take your mean-spirited hysteria? Last I checked we still had pretensions towards civilized discourse here on MoFi.
  • pretensions towards civilized discourse here on MoFi. You're wrong!
  • Think of ways you can starve this undeserving economy of your hard-earned dollars and put them into place. Right. You do realise that this will result in even greater unemployment don't you? These corporations employ millions of people, who's income is used to buy products and services which provide income for millions more. And so on and so forth.
  • Great there goes one more person evading the future draft...
  • We've been sniggering about how MeFi has been reduced to an echo chamber of shrill, dogmatic liberals, but your comments in this thread are just as bad as anything I've come across on MeFi. Amen. It's been particularly nasty around here since the election. I had hoped that Wednesday would allow us to depressurize, and then we could go back to what this sited used to be before so many people got pissed off. It's not looking good. Dear fellow upset liberals: We lost. Scream "rigged election" all you want, but we lost, and nothing short of an impeachable offense is going to rescue us for four more years. Time to accept that fact and start working on changing minds before the '06 elections. I'll give you a hint about how to do that: the shrill pissing and moaning won't work. In fact, it'll drive the undecideds and moderates to the other side. Blanket characterizations of "the right" need to stop right now, and you all know why. You're smart enough to understand how frigging ridiculous it is to make categorical statements about an entire group of people, but your anger is driving you to see the boogeyman around every corner. This place used to be a hell of a lot more fun than this, and I for one am getting really fucking sick of it. And I sympathize with your views -- this should tell you something. F8xmulder said something last week regarding all of the bile spewage that stuck with me, something like "if this is what it means to be a liberal, you can count me out." Amen, f8x, and I hope you're just lurking in the shadows and waiting for the knees to stop jerking. Regards, mid
  • middleclasstool People in this country are pissed, and justifiably so. They are depressed, and justifiably so. They feel they have no hope from what used to be their own political party. The system is not working and has not been working for quite some time now. As far as the election being 'lost', you cannot lose a rigged election. There are too many stories in the U.S. media and international media for anyone to think otherwise. Suggesting that we 'still have a chance if we work within the system' is naive and foolish. People need to be presented with alternatives and they need to feel comfortable in discussing them. It is a cathartic and healing process, and like it or not, this is one of the forums where that discussion and healing is going to take place. I am not suggesting an 'armed revolt against the government', but people do need to talk about these things and not let them simmmer inside. Think about the last four years builing up to this election. People knew the last election was rigged. They felt that this one was going to be rigged. They were angry from the days and weeks after the election like few other times in this country's history, and rightfully so. They were told to 'just get over it'. They did not and have let that anger build and build. There have been several articles written about how divided this nation has become because of that last rigged election. Some of those articles were in publications like 'Newsweek, Time, or U.S. News and World Report. Hardly liberal media. To suggest that we should 'just get over it' is naive. Making that statement didn't work four years ago. It will not work now. People need to talk about these things, they need to express their anger, they need to know there are a majority of others out there who feel the same. So sorry if you don't like the heat. Feel free to leave the kitchen. This *is* what democracy is all about, being angry, discussing ways to alleviate that anger, then acting on them. It does not mean 'Just Get Over It' or I will . . . move to the right?
  • Bondurant Right. You do realise that this will result in even greater unemployment don't you? These corporations employ millions of people, who's income is used to buy products and services which provide income for millions more. And so on and so forth. Yea, that's exactly the point. All this and perhaps more would happen. That is exactly the point. Like it or not, countries across the world and their people are pursuing exactly that. Don't like a country's government? Don't buy that nation's products. Starve their economy until that nation changes it's policies. It has worked. So, in conclusion, by all means stop buying, stop spending, starve this nations multinationals of every friggin' dime. Besides, our 'pResident' says the economy is booming! All kinds of jobs out there! Would you like fries with that?
  • And you have every right to feel angry, mk1gti. What I'd prefer is that the anger was taken off MoFi, because it's not remotely what we're about and it's making people uncomfortable - me included. I dread these threads because I know there'll be someone perpetuating the same arguments we've been hearing for the last week in the same tone. I guess the best I can ask is that we restrain ourselves and keep the political stuff in existing political thrads, and then those who don't want to read it can avoid them, and we'll take a few days off from posting new stuff about the post-election trauma. That's my suggestion.
  • I'll try to tone down the anger and keep things 'fact-centric' without the vitriol. It's been a very disappointing time for us all.
  • Most depressing thread. ever. (no offense intended to anyone, and I agree with much of what mk1gti has said.)