November 03, 2004

Curious George: Emigrating within the U.S. In a really old MoFi thread (last spring) I asked about leaving the country, and I see the subject returned here today. However it's not the answer. Is there an affordable leftie haven inside the United States? Why is the deck seemingly stacked against us to where we can't find a like-minded community within our own borders?

I am coming to the realization that I don't NEED to be living amongst rednecks, yet I don't need to be living like Grizzly Adams, either. What seems to be the perfect compromise is a small town somewhere that embraces left-leaning ideals and has people like ourselves who value education, discourse, and community. But is this possible, WITHOUT the trappings of materialism and real estate? We see the SF Bay area, Manhattan, etc, as a quick way to burn through money just to live in a trendy area. I don't need a $2000/mo apartment nor a $80,000 IT job. We want to be outside of a city living a simple life and be in a position where we can pick up elements of agrarian life should the economy bleed off more and more jobs. Come on, there have GOT to be pockets of progressive rural communities or tiny towns without "small thinking" and without exhorbitant housing costs. I can't be the only person doing ok running a portable Internet business and desiring to escape this suburban prison into a Smallville or Walton Mountain aligned with my own values. Why do I not hear rumblings about such a community?

posted by rolypolyman 19 years ago
  • Also in the above FPP I said emigration is not the answer [i]for us[/i], as we've spent months coming to the realization that this would be too extreme of a step for our own family. But it's probably a great step for others; more power to you.
  • you just typed my mindset let me know what you find i'll do likewise *on the hunt*
  • i'd emigrate if they'd lighten up tho
  • Charlottesville, VA. We are a little haven of Liberalism in the predominantly republican state of VA, we have lots of local authors, we seriously dislike chain restaurants, and we're the drinkinest city this side of...I dunno. Something wet, I would imagine. We're also relatively well wired, as we were an early testbed for DSL and most places have cable modem. We're looking to make the entire downtown area wireless.
  • if you have good transportation commuting ain't bad at all if you mean around madison or chicago iowa so i hear i always hoped the nw would calm down no cal i think still looks ok
  • Two words: college town. Problems with that suggestion include cost of living, but that covers a number of small liberal towns in general. Also, check out New England, except for parts of Maine and New Hampshire.
  • also i hear minnesota is cool too and around st louis baltimore
  • Come to Philadelphia. Lots of small-town atmosphere in pockets just outside the center of the city, especially around the University City and Germantown districts. Farmer's markets and farm-to-city programs bring in organic foods. Lots of music and culture, and a few renown film festivals a year. Rents are going up here and there, but are nowhere near $2K/month (I pay about $850 for a very large 1st floor apartment). Very friendly to all manners of folk and philosophies, in my mind. I'm happy I live here.
  • Soldier's Grove, Wisconsin, is where my uncle lives. It's rural, but pretty far left. Lots and lots of organic farmers and Old Labor folks. That's what my idyllic rural America looks like (but I'm a city guy myself).
  • Ummm well you can always find a "blue" area even in "red" states. I'm am somewhat comforted by the fact that my county Travis in Texas voted for Kerry. Also in order to defend our ideas it's important to spread the word and that means going somewhere other than an echo chamber.
  • Though keeping out of the echo chamber sounds idyllic, we do have a baby boy and we're really concerned what kinds of values he's exposed to as he gets older. When it's exclusively what we have around here, it's bad.
  • Maybe we Blue voters living in Red states move in droves to the Blue states in time for the 2010 census -- helping bump up the number of electoral votes the blue states will get come 2012 or 2016. By then, though, I'll be old -- and probably a scared, bitter, no-fun-loving, dyed-in-the-wool Red.
  • Arlington, VA is a great pocket of Dems in an otherwise "red" state, but the housing costs are getting outrageous. It doesn't have a small town feel but the community is very progressive and forward thinking. I'd have to agree with Sandspider in recommending Charlottesville if you're looking for something smaller.
  • Why do almost all of the "blue" states have to be cold? Does heat make you stupid? /still bitter
  • it makes one laconic *drinks sweet tea*
  • Vermont. Everywhere except the Northeast Kingdom, which is...ah....not quite in step with the rest of Vermont. CoL is relatively low and we're right between Boston and Montreal if you need a megalopolis fix. I don't know what you mean by small town...the entire state has a population of about half a million and a lot of them are clustered around Burlington.
  • I spent the first 18 years of my life in Baltimore and it SO not cool. It has all the problems of a big city (horrible crime and poverty, corruption etc) and none of the culture.
  • hah! climate is a big thing with me too. Oregon and Washington aren't really that cold. I'm running more into the fact that everyone moved here and then the jobs ran out... Everyone and their grandmother is now a graphic designer. Washington State, once you cross the mountains and go east out of the city, is very red. The sparsely populated peninsula and the denser city areas are all very blue. Very nice over there on the peninsula... I hear good things about Bellingham as well.
  • Stay where you are; you provide a better service to the cause right there in your oppressive surroundings. Infect your neighbors with your progressive ideas. Join their organizations, clubs, lodges. Sneeze liberal thoughts in their general directions. Spit common sense into their coffee and sodas. Encourage your children to do the same. Spread the cure.
  • I've had my eye on Arcata, California, for a while, though property is a bit pricey. Be sure to read the police log (in the side bar - scroll down to "Sections."
  • Another vote for Vermont. They're all dirty hippies over there. And it's not illegal to be naked in public. (That's one of the first things they teach you at my streak-happy college in NH.) Also check out western Massachusetts, especially the Amherst area. (Dunno about the cost of living, though.)
  • Places I've run into on my travels: Woodstock NY Hanover NH Deleware Water Gap, PA Ashville NC Austin TX Oxford Miss Knoxville TN Madison Wisc. Utica NY (Yep, most of these are college towns) Lots of places in Oregon,California and Washington state probably more that I'm forgetting Personally I lean towards Oregon and the little known Delaware Water Gap/Stroudsburg Pa which has an extremely high concentration of world class Jazz musicians living there for some odd reason. But I'm biased being a Jazz musician myself. If any mass migration of Monkeys happens, let me know- I'm there!
  • My neighborhood in Houston went Nader in 2000, although I wouldn't call it cheap except by New York/California standards. I found this map pretty hopeful--even if you feel like you're surrounded by "the enemy", the country is not that geographically split and you do have neighbors who share your values.
  • I'm with PatB and christina on Vermont. The town of Barre (near Montpelier, the capital) has a diner whose goal is to only serve food grown within 50 miles of Barre. Also Brattleboro is nice, and there are some good towns near Burlington. Middlebury is a small college town, but maybe a bit yuppified. Not so keen on Oregon. You get clusters of large college towns like Eugene and Corvallis, but the smaller towns tend to be fairly conservative. It's like Idaho with hippies. Also, San Luis Obispo (CA) looks pretty interesting.
  • I live in South Eastern Virginia, a military right wing town... yet I still found the need to move out of Virginia Beach and into the 'sticks' ..
    Now I have like 3 gun shops, a tattoo parlor, and several turkey shoots within a mile. I have a neighbor named Rex and the dogs roam free.
    You wouldn't like it here. :)
  • Carrboro, North Carolina is nice. It's artsy, yet close to the high-tech area of Research Triangle Park. Also colleges (NC State, UNC, and Duke) close by. I believe the residents are fighting like the devil to keep developers out. Even though NC went for Bush, 66% of the people in Orange County voted for Kerry.
  • Columbia Missouri, Bellingham Washington, Eugene Oregon, Bozeman Montana, Portsmouth New Hampshire, Santa Fe New Mexico. The Republicans just barely won last night--there are tons of non-rednecky places!
  • christina is right, western mass is great, especially the northampton/amherst area. lots of good music and food.
  • Seattle! Specifically, West Seattle! A small town feel without the drawbacks of small towns (conservatism)!
  • Stay the hell away from Kansas City, though Lawrence, KS might be okay. KC itself is a dying, redneck haven Stock car racing and steaks. That's it.
  • Back on Vermont: Montpelier is the only State Capitol that doesn't have a McDonald's. And this is where the Von Trapp Family Singers came after they escaped from Austria at the end of the 'Sound of Music.' They have a beautiful ski lodge in Stowe. And there's a lake down the road from me, was the first place Jaques Cousteau ever dove. And Captain Kangaroo came from here. and in the spring, the air smells ever-so-faintly of warm maple syrup. And Ben and Jerry's ice cream is made here. Really, what's not to love? And our congressman is a socialist.
  • You know, NY isn't just Manhattan. You can get a one bedroom for $900 in Bay Ridge, Brooklyn. Granted, I have a stake in the rent market, as I'm in the process of getting into real estate. Sure, me and my partner charge $1,800 for a 1 1/2 bedroom, but it is market value, and we don't raise rents on an annual basis as long as we like our tenants. I would, however, like to mention that I am a firm liberal, and I think that once the mortgage is paid off, it is my civic duty to make at least one apartment in each building available for far below market value.
  • Western Massachusetts is the way to go. Its a great area with 5 plus colleges, strong community both socially and politically, and I'm pretty sure the highest quality of life for your dollar. We have great restaurants, museums, movie theaters and at its most expensive rents are half that of any major city. Its the kind of place where the local bikers hang out outside the ice cream shop. Where on any given night you can do something new, interesting and fun. If you are looking for a town that you can walk to the center try Northampton. If you are into privacy look around the boarders of Amherst, or the towns of Hatfield, or Sunderland.
  • jeblis, as a friend of mine in Florida once said, "Cold kills stupid." Warm climates are far more forgiving than cold.
  • Seeing immlass's link, I was reminded of nationalatlas.gov, which lets you play around with mapping various national statistics, including the 2000 election results, by county. There are a couple clear pockets of Gore voters among the conservatives that might be interesting to investigate. This link might be a map, but if it doesn't work as a permalink, you'll have to go exploring on your own from their main site. Heck, you should just go play with it regardless.
  • Another vote for MN. I feel I need to give St. Louis a NO vote. It has it's good points but is VERY segregated, though I'll concede that the segregation is in three groups: blacks, Conservative whites, and integrated liberals. Not much agrarian stuff going on.
  • I'd agree with a22lamia, except that the drivers in that state put the Ass in Mass. Seriously, those guys drive almost as agressively as Kebekers. Stay away. Unless you like combat driving.
  • It's all about Madison, no contest.
  • I've said it once, and I'll say it again: Ithaca, NY. It's a liberal college town that's more than affordable, has loads of culture, and downright stunning natural beauty. Give me a few more years and I'll probably be on my way up there myself.
  • Also I'd like to vote against Wyoming, and use as my basis this quote from Cannibal, The Musical, an early Trey Parker/Matt Stone effort: Polly Pry: You made it to Wyoming, right? Packer: Yeah, but I would've been better off just letting those people catch me and kill me. Polly Pry: Why? Packer: You ever been to Wyoming?
  • I'll definitely second Madison. We've got an isthmus, for christ's sake.
  • My town is pretty f'in sweet even though my state has voted democrat since FDR
  • Hey Pat, we're not that bad as long as you stay west of Worchester. Here in WMass the grass is green, the neighbors smile and wave and the only traffic is crossing between Amherst and Northampton on route 9 - which isn't nearly as bad as it use to be now that the Coolidge bridge is 4 lanes. Now Boston, thats another story - I'd take driving in NY or L.A. any day to driving in that rats nest of a highway system.
  • and by has I ment hasn't
  • Moscow Idaho, the dried pea and lentil capitol of the world? The paloose made me dizzy.
  • 've said it once, and I'll say it again: Ithaca, NY. It's a liberal college town that's more than affordable, has loads of culture, and downright stunning natural beauty. Oops- when I said Utica, I meant Ithaca. Ithaca rocks!
  • Sorry, I'm staying put. I' going to fight for my right to partaaaay!
  • I'd vouch for Amherst-Northampton, too, having gone to college there - and yes, it's largely Masshole-free - but with my line of work I need something city-size to have a prayer of getting enough money. I am going to swallow hard and move out of Texas next year - and I'd already decided that months before the election. I read interesting things about Portland, Maine a few weeks ago. I'm veering to places that aren't meccas for hipsters, i.e. Portland, Oregon no, Seattle iffy. Madison sounds real interesting... Now, Philadelphia. I lived in Philadelphia as a small child, and there's an instinctual urge pulling me back... but for crying out loud the last time I was there I got to see the scene of a shooting when we were driving through the city. That was over ten years ago, but the point is, crime. How is it there?
  • Carrboro, North Carolina is nice Yeah... I miss Elmo's. But, it rubs me the wrong way... it's lefty, sure, but in an I-got-mine sort of way somehow, and of a certain sameness. The sort of place with rigid, invasive, and nastily enforced covenants and other restrictions. I guess I figure you're not *really* lefty or liberal unless you're cool with your neighbor having 2/3 of a '68 Mustang on blocks in his driveway for a good long while. The real cool kids wander out to northern Chatham county, between Chapel Hill and Pittsboro. Farther from Elmo's, but closer to Allen and Sons, --and-- there are houses in the woods shaped like flying saucers.
  • immlass's suggestion inspired me to make this map [self-link]... it shows where Bush got the votes by county. Only got around to doing west/southwest states and Ohio though. Tried to do VT/NY but they aren't releasing their info; also tried CO but their site apparently hasn't been updated since August.
  • BTW I was most intrigued by that strip of blue in Idaho, Blaine County I believe. There's no big city to explain it.
  • Blaine County contains Sun Valley and Ketchum. Its politics are carpetbagger politics. Fails your "affordable" criterion, I'm afraid.
  • Ah well, figures.
  • The only way to defeat conservative idealist is to move in with them, interact with them, and confront them with the fact that their decisions are hurting people they know. Moving away to live with other liberals only makes this problem worse.
  • d.c. went 90 percent for kerry and is full of progressive nonprofits doing great lefty work!
  • The only way to overcome conservatism is public transportation. Having to sit next to some guy on a bus or train really imparts the message that we're all in this together.
  • this may or may not be up your alley: http://www.freestateproject.org/ but i agree with those that said asheville, nc, madison, wi, or carborro, nc.
  • I know we're all tired of dissention, but if I were going to move for political/cultural reasons, I guess it would be to one of the pinker areas of a state with enough electoral votes to have some standing, especially one which had been more Democrat in the past. I'd join their clubs and participate in civic activities (I once put on the local festival "Queen Show" for 2 years in the little town I live in, and was the festival's treasurer for 3. I could do that again.) And, I'd bring a dish to their potluck gatherings. I'd also have a really good time debating issues with the moderate conservatives. Maybe, if I really did my homework, I might even be able to persuade a few to switch sides on some issues. If I lived long enough (and I'm kinda old), and was really persuasive, I, and few other like minded folks might be able to tip a county's voting majority, if the area were pink enough. I think that's the way it has to be done. I also think that we liberals (and, probably, the conservatives) have closed ourselves off into partisan encampments, so the person to person discussion of the issues no longer takes place, except in defensive/aggressive mode. Pursuant to this, I thought rolypoly's map was extrememly interesting. The biggest electoral votes in red states are in Ohio, Florida and Texas. (Yeah, we all knew that.) But Ohio and Texas have room for this approach, if the right issues were put forward. And Arizona, Missouri and Indiana come to mind for the next tier, though we don't have the depth of information on all those counties.
  • I just read this article, The Progressive Frontier [via In These Times], and then happened to stumble upon this thread while searching for something completely unrelated [I love when that happens]. Makes me curious indeed... Does anyone have follow-ups to any of the posts here? Did you move rolypolyman? I have a young son as well, and this issue is beginning to weigh more heavily on my mind lately.
  • It has been over a year since this good question was asked. Did anyone move to a more progressive town during this past year?