October 24, 2004

• Wouldn't a court injunction do the same thing, at much less expense? Then the matter could be on public record. Either way I hope one day to hear Olbermann's promised falafel dance mixes.
• Hmmm. I understand when things migrate from here to Mefi, or occasionally when links find their way here from the blue- but the exact same post from the same person? Perhaps, if it was something earth shattering. But is a smartass editorial from a news commentator/anchor really important? If I came across this on my own, I wouldn't have even finished reading the article, but I figured something interesting was going to occur. If Cronkite, or even Koppel, Jennings, or one of the others had said this on the air, maybe it would raise some eyebrows, but I don't understand (a) how Olberman's reaction even matters (*especially* when mentioned in a blog, vs the newscast itself) (b) why the story is even considered important by anyone other than the parties involved. That is not to confuse "important" with "entertaining" It is entertaining. But despite the "car wreck" factor, every time a jerk gets their comeuppance doesn't mean that the event, or the comments about the event matter or affect anyone other than the original parties involved. I mean "save history from a permanent cover up" ? Isn't that a little strong? Jeez... sorry if that was harsh. I suppose that I don't mean it to be but it does seem symptomatic of the problem with news today. People consider anything entertaining to be newsworthy - and while O'Reilly is certainly reaping a terrific reward for some of the nonsense that he has spouted off about in the past (Ludacris, keep your laughing to a dull roar over there), try to explain the importance of this to an Iraqi or a Sudanese citizen and see their reaction to this "most important story on MoFi" or MeFi this weekend. I would venture to guess that you don't have to be from a war-torn country or even outside the US to *not* care about this at all. ouch...sorry to poop on this thread - but you know how something gets your goat? HM
• Well, it is important. These tapes would be a major dickslap to republicans everywhere. Wendell feels it's important enough to post and that's good enough for me. What really gets my goat is when people sign their posts AR
• I like the post. I like Keith Olbermann, and I'd probably watch him if I had cable.
• Argh- The links are posted here in order to comment on them. Am I only allowed to say positive things? At least I kept on topic, and didn't take cheap shots over whether someone initialed their post. What's next? "Yeah, and your socks don't match!" ? Grow up. But I digress. Regarding your claims, I doubt highly that these tapes would be a "dickslap" to anyone other than O"Reilly. From day one, references were clearly made to the fact that the direct quotation of entire paragraphs indicated that these allegations were true, and most likely, beyonde refute. Has this had an effect on "republicans everywhere"? No. The tapes would be of no interest other than entertainment value. Rubbernecking. Everyone already knows that what was said. The case would be ENTIRELY different if no one knew about tapes, and O'Reilly and Fox set about denying that this happened and *then* the tapes surfaced. Even still, how does this make Arlen Specter or Robert Novak or Ben Stein or my Republican neighbor or my Republican boss or any other republican look bad? It doesn't. It reflects on the man himself. Look - Limbaugh's pill bust was a bigger story than this - but that has all but disappeared. Did that bring down the Republicans? No, it revealed what lots of people already knew - that he was a hypocritical, lying bastard. I mean, really. What you are saying is as ill informed as Limbaugh or Coulter saying that impeachment proceedings against Clinton would make people realize that all Democrats were corrupt, evil, satanic traitors, because he got a blowjob in the White House. It didn't happen then...and he was the goddamn PRESIDENT! Bill O'Reilly is an entertainer (though, that was questionable - until this) My post wasn't attacking Wendell personally, or at least it wasn't meant to, and I'm not even trying to say that his post wasn't important (at least as important as Space Mushrooms, or Turkmen poetry or missing socks), but to point out two things: That the *story* and *Keith Olberman's Blog* are not important, and are hopefully not "the most important" thing that I come across on MoFi and MeFi this weekend, and that the hyperbole in the post and the Paul Revere way in which it was delivered on those two pages was a bit of an oversell on Wendell's part. Both of which I believe are within fair boundaries to mention in my comments. I say nothing about him personally and have actually found some of his comments elsewhere quite touching and heartfelt. But, you sir, are a dick. HM
  
• Argh I apologize. That remark was inappropriate, but your attack was unnecessary.
• No problem
• I'm rooting for the one who speaks his mind, not the passive aggressive one. Condescension makes intelligent discourse impossible.
• Look, I'm sorry I even got baited into this crap. Much too Meta for me. Here's some nice puppies instead.
• First of all, HM, just cause you like to lurk over at MeFi does't mean every other monkey does. Also, you don't get to dictate what is important and what isn't. It is'nt your place to tell me that it's unimportant when a woman gets sexually harrassed. That ain't up to you bub. If you don't care about the story, you don't have to talk about it. But you don't get to tell us not to talk about it. *** Mr. K ***
• Now look here
• Your puppies are mostly cute, Argh, but who's that green-shirted puppy in the middle?
• Actually, look here. I smell shenanigans.
• And here
• puppy puppy puppy puppy puppy puppy puppy puppy puppy puppy
• Shut up! Shut up! Shut up!
• i do feel fairly safe in assuming that everybody who reads monkeyfilter also heads over to that other site sometimes. and if they don't it's MOST LIKELY because they're sick of all the political nonsense that's been posted recently. so, you know, i would hope we could keep that in mind before ctrl-c'ing and ctrl-v'ing.
• Yeah, it was a bit out of order, wendell.
• It's not a fair assumption that all monkeys are Metas, nor is it fair that they are all Meta lurkers. I don't go lurk there, and it has nothing to do with the political nonsense. If somebody has a cool link, they should share it here. It doesn't matter if it came from MeFi, Fark, Boing Boing, Waxy, cryptome, or whatever. Not every monkey participates in every link sharing website. If a monkey wants to share with other monkeys, that a good thing. This goes double if it's not just something you found elsewhere, but posted elsewhere. wendell shouldn't have to choose one and only one site to submit links to. That's just nonsense to expect that. Either you think that MoFi is a stand alone site from MeFi, or that it's not; If it is stand alone, then it's wrong to assume everyone here goes to MeFi. If it's not stand alone, then posts need to be copied here where we aren't muted. Either way, cross posts are a good thing.
• actually, good points Mr. Knickerbocker. I apologise, wendell. I guess I am overly proud of this here little blog we have going.
• I hate George W. Bush's socks! RC
• Tha's RC for Rancho Calamari, y'all.
• Argh - thanks. ha, ha. Mr. K - You are twisting my words. It is akin to me complaining that the OJ trial was overblown and having you say " Well, I don't know about Horsemuth, but I think a woman getting murdered IS important. It wasn't about two people getting murdered. It was about the spectacle. That's what I don't find as important, not the sexual harassment, bub. I'm not trying to get you not to discuss it, in fact, aren't I really using the appropriate forum *to* discuss it? I don't mind cross-posts, especially when they find their way here naturally. Someone at one site or another says "hey this is cool, important, stupid, unjust, whatever...you all should see this and comment on it too" but it felt forced, that's all. And while assuming that everyone goes to MeFi is wrong, don't use that absolute to convince yourself that a majority don't. I believe that MoFi is a stand alone and I like it far better.
• Now THIS is a Metafilter thread. (Sorry - couldn't resist pointing out the obvious.)
• why the story is even considered important by anyone other than the parties involved... That the *story* and *Keith Olberman's Blog* are not important, and are hopefully not "the most important" thing that I come across on MoFi and MeFi this weekend... I didn't twist your words at all. You repeatedly made it one of your points that this story is unimportant. Not the spectacle, but the story. And when some else said it was imortant, you called him a dick. I'm not trying to get you not to discuss it... Bullshit, you've been continuously bitching that it was posted, and made it a point that only the involved parties should ever discuss it. ...in fact, aren't I really using the appropriate forum *to* discuss it? No, you're using the thread to bitch about the post, shifting discussion from the topic of the sex tapes to the topic of what we can do to please horsemuth.
• horsemuth: we have several members with dual residencey on the M*Filters. One thing that we worried about from early on was that we'd lose good contributors if MeFi membership opened up again, so those few who signed up last time promised that they would post interesting to both sites we the rest of us would have a chance to comment. Wendell, who was on MeFi long before he signed up here, is just keeping up that tradition. In other words, clam down.
• Mr. K - I called him that because of his off-topic personal dig at the fact that I signed my post. I believe that he understood that, and then I apologized for it. Secondly, " It is'nt your place to tell me that it's unimportant when a woman gets sexually harrassed" is inflamatory and twists the meaning of what I said. Do you really think that I consider sexual harassment ok? It's important to the parties involved. It's important that this kind of thing stop. But it's a *story* because Bill O'Reilly's involved, and that, to me, does not make it more important. "you've been continuously bitching that it was posted, and made it a point that only the involved parties should ever discuss it." no, I was bitching about the WAY it was posted. Duplicate, and over the top in the estimation of it's importance, IMO. I mean it isn't like I am just randomly bashing this thread, I was answering a question "Or the most important story you'll see on MoFi this weekend?" that I, as a reader, was asked. That answer for me is no, and I explained why. "shifting discussion from the topic of the sex tapes to the topic of what we can do to please horsemuth" huh? Hey, my comment was harsher than it was meant to be, and in retrospect, I wish my tone was more mellow, but rather than making this a continuing pointless back and forth attack, tell me why this is the most important story that I'll read this weekend. Tell me why Olberman matters. Change my mind, I'll listen.
• Path- I understand. Though, as you can see, others were wondering the same thing. Thanks for taking the time to clarify.
• So if everyone has finished discussing whether this should have been posted, can we discuss the actual post? I'd hate to see any ongoing personal grudges formed here, so it's probably easier to drop it completely (the arguing, not the post). It's very rare indeed that we have cross-posting between Mefi and MoFi, and it doesn't bother me because it is rare and I hope it stays that way. As long, of course, as the content is interesting to someone that wouldn't be able to respond to it on one or the other, as is the case here. In fact, I have a feeling the FAQ says something similar.
• I've always had this debate with myself. When I have a good link, should I post it to mofi or mefi? If I post it to mefi, it will get more traffic and interest (especially good if I've found something like a musician who deserves more attention). But at the same time, I want mofi to have the very best links I have to offer. I did a couple of cross-posts to try to solve this dilemna (also, mofi has a better preview option, so I could use that for both), and had similar questions/complaints. But there is no easy answer; not everyone here reads mefi (I don't read all the posts, even though I am a member, there are just too many), and more importantly, even fewer can comment or discuss. But people like wendell are also longstanding members of mefi - and may want to share posts with both communities, and allow two conversations to happen. If we decide we don't want crossposts, it may be to mofi's detriment, since we won't have the flow between. BACK ON TOPIC: It's interesting that the article doesn't seem to be really about getting at Bill O'Reilly - but about making a stand against gag clauses from big companies. In this case, the sheer cost of the case may force the plaintiff to settle, in which case she will likely be forced to destroy the tapes.
• i've found that if something is truly interesting/important, somebody other than the initial author will post it on that other place (and vice versa). to replicate the post word-for-word in two different places seems, to me, like self-linking.
• Equating the O'Reilly tapes with the Nixon tapes? The Nixon tapes had/have inherent historical value while the O'Reilly tapes merely detail the amusingly embarrassing sexual peccadilloes of a loud-mouthed TV gong show hack. We already know the pertinent details of the O'Reilly tapes and very little will be gleaned from their further study or their preservation. They've served their purpose and a month from now, nobody but the parties involved will give a rat's ass about them. Were I Ms. Mackris, I'd take the $4 million that's on the table and walk away smiling. I'd file this one under Schadenfreudian slip and possibly CableNewsFilter but definitely not the most important story I've seen on MoFi this weekend.
• Hi, everybody! Anything happen while I was gone? Ohhhhh.... My apologies for the cross-post. I've probably posted the same story to both Filters more than anyother dual-citizen (4 times), and it's usually out of a morbid curiosity over how differently the two populations will react to the same thing. This one in particular I didn't know how to react to, so I was throwing it out for anybody to come up with an arguement I can steal and call it my own. :) Double Disclaimer (probably should have posted this at the start): I'm a fan of Olbermann, even more so when he does News than when he did Sports. I also get paid about twice a month for writing Entertainment Features on MSNBC.com (for those few of you who didn't know). However, I've never met Keith in RL - in hact he hasn't even responded formally to my emails) and I've been getting weird vibes from is recent "blogging". I didn't really buy his arguement that he was "preserving history", and the fact that he has obvious Ratings Envy of O'Reilley didn't help either. But was he doing something on a "blog" that he couldn't do on TV, or shouldn't do on TV or shouldn't do anywhere? I don't know. You tell me. But I got a kick out of the personal side he showed: "When they took me off the air in 2001, I took $800,000 from Fox just to not say anything about what idiots they were - until the contract was over eight months later (I think I’ve done another $800,000 worth of damage to them since, because nowhere in the deal did it say I couldn’t start saying what idiots they were once the contract ran out - and they are idiots, by the way - there’s another $17 right there)." Comedy bronze!
• To self-linking means to use the 'filters to promote your own work - a website, a blog, movies, etc. Crossposting draws no attention to the other post, except when people point it out, and certainly brings no personal benefit.
• Please correct to "To self-link..."
• It don't see a problem with occasionally cross-posting worthy items on MoFi and MeFi. As Wendell points out, it is interesting to see how the two conversations develop.
• sorry, make that "W" a "w"
• Wait for it... Wait for it... Wait for it... "So did he come or what? "Jesus, man! There are just some things you don't talk about in public!" *diffuses touchy situation*
• I personally have no problem with 'cross-posting' items on MoFi & MeFi, as long as the poster uses 90% different wording in the MoFi post to make it sufficiently original, because we are special. It can be the same content, but not the same wording or sentence structure. Or language. The poster must demonstrate the mastery of at least two forms of medieval French literary technique in the post, or I will be forced to kill her. Him. It. With a pike. Not the polearm, the fish. Or a sturgeon. What was your name again?
• 91% different wording, and they must send Fearless Leader a canned food product not available in her home country. The coolest thing I ever heard about the Nixon tapes (from a normally reliable news source) was that they are being deliberately released at intervals over the decades, rather than all at once way back when, so that people don't forget what a jerk Nixon was.
• Who has control over these tapes, that they would want him to look bad? When I was a kid, I had underdog sympathy for Nixon. But then I heard what he called Pierre Trudeau. I don't like Trudeau, but no one calls our PM bad stuff. (I still don't understand the context of Nixon's disgrace, or who he was politically, but I wasn't actually born when it all happened).
• Don't know if anyone gives a crap about what I think, since I'm a newbie and all (sorry, Nostrildamus -- couldn't resist), but I think a lot of monkeys have a kind of inferiority complex when it comes to MeFi. Which is silly, because MoFi is thriving, from what I can see. (Also [usually] friendlier, but occasionally a bit less tolerant of pointed disagreement.) Anyway.
• I never go to Metafilter. I tried for a while, but always got a "server too busy" or super-slow load. So I come here instead, From what I hear, it's nicer. Plus, more puppies. As for O'Reilly, I'm sure once these tapes are made public he'll just falafel about it. See what I did there? Falafel? Feel-awful? Oh, never mind...
• I'm sorry, TenaciousP., but you're in the "No Pun Zone" here at "The Oh Really? Factoid".