I'm trying to decide if I want to simulcast my comments both here and on my own weblog. On the one hand, it's a lot more work to do both and nobody reads my weblog anyways, so it seems a waste. On the other hand, I've spent the past 10 minutes writing a script to automatically ad the current date in my weblog editor, and I'm about to add the finishing touches. It would seem a waste not to use all that, um, hard work.
O fucking god damn.
I liked it when dng said it.
And here we go!
Thanks, squidranch, for the post. I wasn't going to do it...
This is the only time I'm not watching it with friends, hence the only time I could have joined the party here - but alas! I am called away to study theoretical computer science - I look forward to reading the tale of terror that emerges here...
MeFi crosslink, for convenience again. They're already at it over there! Note in particular the debate bingo link. Also CSPAN looks like the venue of choice.
Banana daiquiris, anyone? The snacks are over on the palm fronds. We have coconut, banana, and some root-things I dug up the other day. I understand someone will be bringing some grubs. Feel free to sprawl out just anywhere! Don't let the bonobos distract you, though; they're like that all the time.
man, Bush is so stupid! I cant believe he said that!
(just getting warmed up)
Oh my god, what's with that blinking and jaw gnashing? I can't believe that after two debates, he is still making those faces!
Ah, that stretch felt good. *crack*
so, has it started yet or are we at the warm up stage still? is cspan covering it? the tv has been taken over, keep me updated--live-feed?
No, it starts at 9pm Eastern. CSPAN links on the old thread.
thanks, i just got the cspan live-feed set up
Guiliano?
Gah! Don't mind me, typically, I get into something right in the middle and have no idea what is going on. I'm clear now.
Okay, I've swapped from tivo from CNN to CSPAN. Say, I just realized that Bingo is just a drinking game without the alcohol. It's pretty obvious now that I've realized it, but interesting to me nevertheless.
Presenting Mystery Science Theater 3000: Debate! produced by MonkeyFilter.
Yeah, no sneaky fast-forwarding time machine funny stuff.
Oh, okay, idest. And now, I must juice up the smart-aleck machine.
Before we get started, does anyone need some wood?
No, but my internets are kinda weird.
Jesus, we're already talking about tough jobs.
idest wins!
alas that there is no time to gin up the silhouettes agin the pix from last time.
Drink?
"And, as Vice President Cheney has said, you can find my wood on www.hardwood.com."
psst - don't go there at work.
Wow- glad I showed up a little early. Save my seat- I'm going to the bar. Be right back...
I think I may get myself a brandy.
Victory Storm King Imperial Stout: Proud Sponsor of Sandspider's Smart-Aleckery for the 3rd 2004 Presidential Debates.
The Debate: It's quiet. Too quiet.
Cripes. Do they have to count it down like that? It isn't rocket science.
I like the red-white-and-blue motif they have going there. Very progressive. Very avant garde.
Domestic affairs. They should call Clinton in for this one.
I want to see him turn down a candidate's request for more time, just because they didn't say "Mother may I?"
Schieffer is so sprightly.
Okay, right off the bat; the blond has a smart-ass smirk going already, and the other side needs to powder her face--it's too shiny.
"Oh my god! We're wearing the same suit! I could, like, die of embarrassment!"
Uh-oh. Both wearing red ties. I'm confused already.
I want to just once hear the buzzer.
Shouldn't Kerry be in blue? Just so we know which side he's on?
hmmm... first question has nothing to do with domestic affairs? (anyone read that thing about the moderator being a Bush golfing buddy)
What are you talking about? We've been going to hell in a handbasket for the past 2000 years. We're going to be killing ourselves out of the womb out of self-preservation. Oh, and it's Bush's fault.
He stole Kerry's "you lying bastard" smirk
*blink*
Bush is going to invade the rest of the world! I knew it!
Freedom AND liberty. Bibliochick drinks two...
"Spread freedom and liberty around the world." By force if necessary.
One 19-year old person voted in Afghanistan. And that's more 19-year olds than will vote in the US this year.
Nuisance!
Oh HERE we go.
I do hope Kerry brings up some new points in this debate. I'm kind of bored with the old ones.
"He exaggerates! Just like Gore!"
"we're doing everything we can to protect our ports and planes" - but he just gave us numbers that say we're not.
*smirk*
I complately agree with Sandspider.
He talks like he's wearing vibrating pants
No, it's a US company, but the branch producing it was in England. Actually, it's the Brits who wouldn't let it go, as I understand it.
The shortage is the BRITS fault!
Wait, I thought Canadian medicines were horribly dangerous. Now we're begging for vaccine?
If anyone is running into trouble finding a live feed, I'm having better luck with the CNN radio (not video - apparently that's a "premium service") than I did with anything on CSPAN.com, link is on the homepage of CNN.com.
Wouldn't that be ironic if Bush got the Flu right before the election, and it cost him votes?
how the hell can he say he "took the right actions" about the flu vaccine out of england? wasn't it the british government that banned the export of it?
Wait- did he just say we're looking at Canada to provide the flu vaccines? Last week didn't he compare Cananda to a 3rd world country with drugs made by terrorists?
how the hell can he say he "took the right actions" about the flu vaccine out of england? wasn't it the british government that banned the export of it?
No, Canada's not a 3rd world country. They just get their drugs from the 3rd world countries. You know, cause it's cheaper.
Yeah... speak to Ohio... good job, Kerry.
Where does Bush get these numbers?
I have to say, the "I have a plan" thing is starting to sink into my unconscious. I'm not surprised that they have a response for it.
And I can't imagine where Bush learned about bait and switch *coughwarinirqcough*.
bush is still a bit off, with the hesitations and stuff, but he's in better form so far.
Splitscreen CSPAN is the way to go.
Did you see Bush start to drool? I'm not surprised, with all the mouth breathing.
Yeah, Bush is controling the scowling and the twitching. Kerry is smirking too much.
Kerry says he's a fiscal conservative.
277! 277! 277! Pay go!
I want Kerry to reply, "Mr. Bush, I would rather have my record than yours any day."
I can't believe nobody has commented on the platform shoes Bush is wearing. So I will.
How can we trust a president who flip-flops on his height?
As a short man, I can't fault bush his tall shoes. He's the George Costanza of the West Wing.
Got to watch out for the Chinese-ceiling-fan PAC
he's wearing flip-flops?
'And I saw a problem in the public education system, so I said, "We need this to be like I had it in Texas."'
Platform flip-flops?! Damn it, how come I can't get the streaming video at work :(
Oh we're gonna solve one problem before it's too late. Just give us a few weeks.
"I went to Washington... to uh... solve problems... yeah, that's it."
Pfft. Starting a career with a college diploma is for pansies.
"I have this new education plan I like to call 'No child left beh... oh crap." -Bush
Bush's beinging to froth at the mouth
Weren't Pell Grants cut back this year?
Someone is fast-forwarding agian. I KNOW it. *glare*
Was that a nearly current pop culture reference from Kerry? I am aghast.
Yes! 1% jump for a Sopranos reference.
Is "trade adjustment assistance money" something like an unemployment check?
A Tony Soprano reference! That's got to be some kinda first!
HAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!! Good one! Tony Soprano talking about Law and Order!
Ehhh, trying to seem hip with Sopranos reference? Not so good.
Consider the source, dude...
Pell grants!! fast forward proof!!!
damned time machines
Is it fair to blame the administration entirely? No, not entirely. Just mostly.
John Kerry. Leonard Nimoy. Separated at Birth?
I say, "Bob, I'm not going to answer your question about jobs going overseas." Continue growing the jobs of the 21st Century, with community college education?? Because if a degree from a top school in Computer Engineering won't keep your tech support job from going over to India, an Associates certificate from community college will. Right?
"Hey, lowering taxes for corporations. Why didn't I think of that?"
Actually I heard "tony Soprano" is secret liberal code for "I love abortions!"
He IS Spock: "Nanosecond!"
"credit" is a discredited word...
p.s. cspan was the way to go: they're about 2 sec ahead of CBS but I can't change the channel now cause the s.o.'s watching in the other room and the echo will drive me crazy faster than staring directly at George's mouth-corner-spittle-pet
someone just learned the word "litany"?
Phwoooo!
someone just learned the word "litany"?
Phwoooo!
lower Americans - is that the South?
Spec, 2 seconds isn't that bad...the cnn.com radio is so far behind that some of these posts are "spoilers" for parts of the debate I haven't gotten to yet :)
Lower Americans are NOT his base.
Did Bush interrupt Kerry?
Wow- amazing how the department of education has been reporting the cut of financial aid for higher education.
Whereas you can't see the far right bank with a telescope.
The far left BANK!!!
Homosexuality -- woo hoo here we go!
Bush addressed Kerry directly! I thought that was against the rules!
Golden opportunity for a 'six feet under" reference here...
Bush doesn't know about homosexuality?
Why is the right side of Bush's face so out of sync with the left? That's really weird. Reminds me of the Joker for Burton's Batman.
We need to treat people with tolerance and dignity. But as for the fags, let's kill 'em.
Bush is doing much better than expected. I think it is safe to say that this is a clear win for Bush.
Oops, I'm doing it again.
Wait...didn't Bush just say that Government shouldn't interfere with the way people lived their lives, and 45 seconds later he says he proposed an amendment to limit freedoms?
I've noticed that when he lies, he tends to smirk and his mouth goes all crooked.
you people type too fast.
THE VICE PRESIDENT'S DAUGHTER IS A LESSSSSSBIIIIIIAAAANNNNNNN!
WTF Kerry! Not cool to bring in Cheney's daughter.
@sandpiper: Bush looks like he's had a stroke.
OH, snap!
Cheney's daughter... ooh... Bush looks very disturbed here.
WTF Kerry! Not cool to bring in Cheney's daughter.
Hmm, has Kerry said "Fascinating" yet?
And does this make Bush Dr. McCoy?
"We're all God's children, but some of us are more loved than others."
Kerry also has a markedly asymmetrical face, perhaps even more than W. Some say that means something... If I wasn't jittering on a comment buzz I could find oodles of edifying links.
Or maybe...he's going to have a stroke. On live TV! That would be so cool.
I dunno... Kerry is waffling here.
Oh God... abortion. Here we go. And didn't we do this last time?
Why the fuck doesn't Kerry just look at the camerea and ask the American public if they are better off now than they were four years ago?
Kerry is shining right this minute for me. He seems to be talking from his heart.
I have to say, I like his answers on the religion and gay stuff, except for the whole "cheney's daughter is a lesbian" thing.
Kerry was an alterboy so he knows *everything* about homosexuality.
Kerry: believes he shouldn't make his faith law: I'm glad he's getting a chance to repeat it. Kennedy reference!
Yeah, this is good.
I'm glad Church v. State is coming up. I think Bush loses a lot of people on this issue.
Bible thumping in 5-4-3-2-
I wonder if the Cheney thing was to piss Bush off.
Well, it made Bish scowl, for sure.
Every child is protected (except those we're going to excecute, anyway).
"...eqality, and justice...and The American Way. Just like Superman, Christopher Reeve, who Bush obviously hates because he restricted the stem cell research that could have saved his life."
Bush: now trying to sound centrist and moderate, it's not working.
They no longer execute children ...unless they're retarded
Promoting life: does this include war dead and Texas executed?
Maternity group homes? That sounds tragically unfun.
WHOA! What WAS THAT NOISE!!?
Or, unless their sent off to war.
Yeah, Kerry's face is assymetric, but that seems to be the smirk. Bush's face seems to be unable to align properly.
that was an evil laugh
Ooh... tepid joke.
That is the laugh of a nightmare clown.
Health insurance! The thing I would think everyone can get behind but most people are more worried about Osama bin Ladle
I don't believe he knows either.
Whats that spooge on the corner of Bushs mouth?
Holy shit! "Is it the lawyers?"
KILL THE UMP!!!
Boooooo
/throws hot dog, paper-wrapped packet of grubs
GOP we runnin' this crap shit
Spooge.
They should use more information technology- like the internets!
Everybody's face is assymetrical if we want to get technical, but one side of Bush's face seems to be sagging. Maybe it's a Texas thing.
I think you're right on the stroke thing.
Buggy and horse days... yeah those doctors, bunch of backward Luddite oafs.
The problem with Bush's face is that he is struggling to keep it in check. How hard must it be for him to not smirk so much. He's compensating by blinking way more.
"We're changing the language." Way to make a difference.
The spooge is in play at MeFi, too, but I don't see it. Is this a meme?
;)
You're confusing a medical stroke from him actually BEING a fucking stroke.
Why is Bush cocking his head at Kerry that way? he looks like a Mexican gangster.
OMG Medicare doesn't bulk buy meds? How can that be possible? Oh. Illegal. That bitch.
Let's move onto more important matters: who has the best haircut?
I thought the bonobos were all over on the other side of the river....
Kerry's haircut is fantastically coiffed, but Bush's reminds me more of my dad's.
Their ties are almost identical!
Bush raising his eyebrow like that all the time pushes my buttons...
Kerry is warming up nicely. Thank God. It's nice that Bush has the balls to jump in and not go to the next question....why the fuck can't Kerry do that?
Kerry's hair is over the top. He needs to cut it.
How come there are no bald presidents?
Their entire wardrobe, other than a slight color difference on the suits, are identical. Same cut, same tie, same jaunty angle on the flag, placed at exactly the same point on the lapel.
waiting for punchline
Wasn't Eisenhower bald? I can't recall.
OK. Does *any* debate moderator *ever* believe they're going to get a straight credible answer to the question "where's the money going to come from?"
Bush is sort of sad-looking, really... like the kid who just wants to get away with something. Frightening.
uurrrgghhh!! I am justing venting here, but it really burns my butt when bush talks about a "culture of life" (re the abortion issue) and he is pro-death penalty and former gov'ner of texas, the state that loves to fry your ass...
uuuurrrggghhh!!!
Oh yeah Eisenhower was bald.
Memo to kerry;
Stop talking about what you'd do as president. Focus on how George has screwed up the country.
Hey hey look look look!!! I just noticed, they're also BOTH OLD WHITE GUYS!!
Yup, buld. And the gossip column says Washington's hair was a wig.
WTF? Oh never mind? What is he ON?
WTF was that????????
Honestly, I think the answer is too complex to fit into 2 minutes. However, Kerry has said repeatedly that it's going to be by increasing the taxes for the over $200k set. I don't know if that's enough, but I suppose I could read the Kerry/Edwards plan that I downloaded all those months ago to find out.
or rather "bald"
"uh.. never mind"
Bush just majorly vapor-locked. That was.. disturbing.
/Bush: note self, do not quote.
Nor rationing again!
Oh thank God for small favors, W just said "provide incentive" instead of the atrocious non-verb "to incent"
our health care system is not the envy of the world. Our health care system is the shaky basis for Canadian superiority complexes.
Argh - I was just thinking "Stop wailing on Bush and answer the questions". Something (but not enough) for everyone, I guess
Oh, I hate that so much. Please. I beg of you. Never try to incent me.
"Were we talking about the VA? Okay good. I forgot. I have a talking point about the VA."
Good point from Kerry, btw. Pre-emptive health-care is the idea. Can't help but save money that way.
Blue Cross Blue Shield = product placement! Just wait til we see them drinking Dr Pepper, holding the can in that weird commercial way that leaves the whole label visible.
W just blinks too fucking much. Makes me distrust him. Always has.
In the Trillions. That's almost as much as the debt is now. So, really, not all that much.
Well, that's nice for the senior, but what about us?
Pepsi Blue!
I think Bush may actually be a better liar because he is such a bad liar
Does anyone else think that Bush is being WAYYYyyyy too eloquent?
So how are you paying for MY social security, George?
Is it just me or is this moderator partial to the Republican cause? He just flat out said that SS is running out of money, when it is not clear that that's true. In fact, I would say that it is false.
That issue? Yeah, I'm willing to take that on. Bring it on, Social Security! Punk-ass bitch!
The company that makes "Fake Spooge on the Corner of the Mouth ™" is going to make a fortune.
And did I mention, blink?
Bush's people have obviously been drilling/resting/drugging/wiring/implanting him relentlessly since the 1st debate. He seems at least 5% less stupid.
@squidranch Why did you have to point that out. Now I won't be able to concentrate on anything else.
It's funny, the way Bush talks about some of these issues, it's like he is just now realizing that this is stuff that was in his job description. Like he's never given it thought before.
Kerry is really strong now.
boy this is making me ill.
again.
SS is running out of money
we have stormtroopers?
Midway point on the debate. And I still have beer left. Excellent.
Republican spooge. Mmmmmmm....
What the fuck with the hardball questions to kerry and the lollipop pitches to bush?
Sorry pyrrthon.
Can you say partisan?
unless something happens this is a draw. Nothing much we havent heard before.
partisan.
Kerry's chicken neck is more saggy than Bush's. I think that says volumes about him.
It's because we already know Bush can't handle the hardball questions, so he wants to show Kerry shine in the debate. And because Karl Rove has his family hostage and will kill them at the first sign of independence from the moderator.
Same cut, same tie, same jaunty angle on the flag, placed at exactly the same point on the lapel.
this is actually really, seriously, makes-me-shudder, creepy. Maybe it's a Skull-and-Bones thing.
Moderator editorialized in support of Iraq war before it - later criticicized Bush on no WMD's
what about Incentivize ? That word drives me batty.
And don't be quoting any major news organizations.
err, Nevermind.
Yeah, the jobs the president is creating are SHITTY JOBS.
I know, cuz I got to try them and am still in one.
good jobs comment Kerry!
"I hear more of the same. Zing!"
"More of the same" - isn't that your line George?
I paid taxes. I got no tax relief.
Haha, Bush is using the "more of the same" thing to attack Kerry. Good one!
Bush loves being a smartass. I don't like him, but I bet he's a fun drunk.
"More fair!" Jaysus.
Nothing much we havent heard before. I really don't like how I seem to be seeing Kerry taking a page from the Bush campaign/debate strategy, that is, repeat the same thing OVER and OVER and OVER.
You've only got one shitty job. I got two.
Bush is getting fucking excited. I think the drugs in the water are kicking back in again.
It's CLINTON'S fault!
Motherf...! You know what tax reliefs did for me when I had no job for a year? Nothing. Because I didn't make any money to tax, and the $5 I got back barely managed to buy me a week's worth of Ramen noodles.
So in order to take advantage of Bush's tax cuts one needs to either
1: be rich
2: be a brood mare for the republic.
That laugh!
W. always sounds like he's got the superfriends caught in a deathtrap when he laughs.
Unmanned ve-hicles? SHIT.
1000 more boder agents? For how many people coming in?
Bush acts like he's been snorting a bit of the white stuff
"I was a border governor for awhile!"
Kerry raises eyebrows.
Um, sir? You're the president?
"...ve-hic-cles..."
"allows a willie worker and a willing employer to ... mate op"
Does anyone know what Bush is SAYING right now?
This is a topic he can more or less speak about and you can see his excitement that he's being allowed to talk on his own and not just echo the voice from his earpiece.
borderline governor?
This is a topic he can more or less speak about and you can see his excitement that he's being allowed to talk on his own and not just echo the voice from his earpiece.
"I was a border governor for awhile"
Yeah, you were also kinda the president for awhile. what's your point?
are the Sox winning?
Uh, ask my friend whose Moroccan husband was deported three years ago how humanely he was treated when the INS tossed him a Florida jail cell for five weeks. Bush is so full of shit it's unbelievable.
"The president broke his promise on border reform; he said he would reform it."
*lost*
"It's against the law to hire people illegally."
September 11. Everybody take a drink.
My boyfriend's comment on the drool/blinking:
"I think the meant to botox him, but they buttfucked him."
I love him so much.
Hahaha! "I was a border governor, but the borders are much better protected than when I was governo...hey!"
"It's against the law to hire people illegally"
yeah.
"shows he doesn't know the borders"
"they're better then when I was the governor of Texas"
hee hee hee.
you're astonishingly lame, sir.
border, border, border, blink. blink, blink
"people from the middle east allegedly coming across the border?" "iris technology?"
Sorry Kerry but that was nonsense right there.
I got tingles when Kerry waved his hands talking about thumbprint technology.
I hate to say it, but Bush is sounding strong and kerry, well, he's still strong and all that, he's just not connecting the way he did in debate #1.
Minimum wage! Finally an issue I can sink my teeth into!
"border is more secure than when I was governor"
yeah, you're right, you were a shitty governor.
Or debate #2. This is not a victory.
Is it just me, or is Bush's drinking of water seeming like a nervous twitch now?
The tingly is the feeling of the technology working
Hell, I'm tired of hearing about family values.
If you'd like to help the bottom line with single women (and men) you could raise the minimum wage for WAITERS AND WAITRESSES. We make 3.00 an hour and depend on busy work to pay our rent. Off days mean I fear I might have to not eat that week.
does amyone else think bush looks like he's wearing a yamukkah (sp)?
"...ve-hic-cles..."
posted by squidranch
That's fantastic! Muchos platanos
errr...blink...
Hey, forks, I got lot's of Ramen, I can ship it to ya!:>
Hey, forks, I got lot's of Ramen, I can ship it to ya!:>
Bush starts EVERY response with "uh, Actually" or "uh, What my opponent isn't saying"...
The No Child Left Behind is a JOBS act?
This guy is nuts.
Is there NOTHING the No Child Left Behind Act cannot fix!!!
"actually, i support the minimum wage" (fingers crossed behind back). Shut up!
We make 3.00 an hour
If that.
dammit
Ah, but Kerry is looking into the camera now. I don't know if it really matters, but it's definitely true that they're learning from the experience from the other two debates. I think Kerry's difficulty is that he started at a much higher level than Bush, so Bush seems far more improved than Kerry.
the way to help current minimum wage workers is education??????????????? This is absurd.
"Guess who got shuffled through?" Um, you, Mr. president?
Please send Ramen.
If reading is a civil right, why does our President not indulge?
it's a yarmulke DEFINITELY NOT MADE IN CUBA.
About time. Will Bush overturn RoevWade.
Dodged the question entirely.
Hey, Kerry got under his skin on that one. Keep it up, longface man! Save the fucking country!
What's the point of a civil right if you can't ignore it. That would be a civil responsibility, and those are no fun at all.
i need a cigarette.
I really respect Kerry's domestic policy rhetoric. Sure hope he follows through.
"a liberal senator from Massachusetts"
We've got a new meme!
Kerry has some good facts down. Easy for stupid America to understand.
What, now he's prejudiced against Liberal Senators from Massachusetts?
Ladies and gentlemen, I present to you...
"George W. Bush and Dan Quale, 2008"
spec and yent, thank you for clearing that up!
new drinking game rule: dance naked on the table if bush says "litmus test" again.
Kerry sounds downright exasperated.
Which candidate would win in a sanctioned steel cage match?
(obvs w/o "chemical enhancements")
OOoooooohhhh, nice! Very direct.
Looks like I picked the wrong week to stop sniffing glue.
"measure it by whether you're getting the job done." Nice link to the "are we more secure/are we secure enough" question at the top.
What if we hire Canadians instead of having a draft? Or Meskins?
89 billion to the top tax bracket. That was the number I was missing. Thanks.
He would bring in the rest of the world, to ease the burden on the US troops.
Ladies and gentlemen, I present to you the republican nominees for 2008...
George W. Bush and Dan Quale
"liberal senator from Massachusetts" is a really old phrase. 40 years old, IIRC
You deserve what you vote for.
That's right, I'm secretly a debate coach for Kerry.
I think it would be good to have debates like this all the time, election or not.
What if we hire Canadians instead of having a draft? Or Meskins?
Or Iraqis! They could just fight each other!
You get the face you deserve. Spooge.
I don't know, Iraqis already had a chance to defend their country last year and frankly, they didnt look so hot.
But mwhybark, that would be hard work!
Mr. President, do you know what a mobius strip is?
It's what connects your lips to your ass.
We do, mwhybark, it's called the internet
Okay, time to watch the OTHER game.
That's cause they hadn't been there yet to see the bullshit up close and personal!
Kerry calling Bush on Osama is good but it makes me itchy wondering where's the hidden panel in the floor where Osama's carbon-frozen corpse will be winched up through...
in the tough spots bush is talking in short bursts, pausing ... so he can hear his coach in the earbud
/tinfoil hat
Yes! let's outsource the army to IRAQ!
Spooge?
Isn't that some sorta quantum foam?
Holy Crap!! Bush is a robot from the future! Ahnuld was right, it's SKYNET all over again!
ahem.
Sorry, SKYNET actually had AWARENESS.
Yup, the problem is that the focus was definitely on domestic issues, so any time a foreign policy issue comes up, they just fall back on the responses they had rehearsed a week or two ago.
"the international world" tee hee.
i see it too, calimehtar.
"the republicans and democrats were against the asault weapon ban"
In what world?
Maybe he's thinking of the salt-weapons ban. Which is universally detested. Benefit of the doubt.
Prosecutions up 68% since when? Also, if gun crimes go up, prosecutions go up. We want to reduce the gun crimes.
Goddamn, I am so glad I'm reading this thread and not watching the actual debate. Not sure my blood pressure could stand the, um, pressure.
Because if he spoke against the assault weapons ban, then the NRA might not give him all that money! Of course porsecuting gun criminals makes it all better for the people whose loved ones have been slaughtered by assault weapons, so there's really no reason for that ban, right?
Mmmmmm...tasty, tasty salt weapons.
Bush's argument is that he wanted to pass a ban on assault weapons but those darn politicians told him it probably wouldn't pass.
Oh well! Why bother!
BILL CLINTON SIGHTING!
Despair.
I got your republican spooge right here. Who wants some republican spooge?
oh, christ, kerry just walked into the gun control trap.
His mouth says no, but his bobbling head says "Oh, yes!"
Oho... as an American who (admittedly) hasn't been paying enough attention to the background of my chosen candidate.... I didn't know Kerry was a DA. I hope a lot of undecideds who didn't know this, heard this bit.
i miss bubba.
I love the fact that I can watch over an hour of debate and then switch back and it's the same score.
Baseball. Go figure.
details, forks?
Spect: dude. It's where he got his real political start.
that right there? saying the word 'Clinton." If Al gore could've done that just once he would be president today.
On the game?
Yankees one, sox zero; top of the sixth I think.
Hey forks,
Bush also "wanted" to go after Osama, but he thought it would be too tough, so he figured why bother?
I swear he's an older, more smacked-out version of Dennis the Menace. He has a designated driver right?
"mend it, don't end it": just say no to glib slogans, ESPECIALLY if they rhyme.
Gasp! Bush agreed with Kerry. Are those frogs raining out of the sky?
I'm really glad about this debate. It is finally something like intelligent discussion. I wish all the debates were of this calibre.
Pell grants again?!
So they can bid and receive a contract...just like Haliburton, who didn't even have to bid!
Bush just spun affirmitive action into small business ownership.
Christ, these comments are taking longer and longer......
forksclovetofu, yeah, I know, I been a bad boy. [kicks pebble]... I was too busy falling in love with Howard Dean.
So basically education is the answer to EVERYthing (which I actually believe but not out of Bush's mouth).
Let me get the timeline straight.
Make sure the kid gets born.
Get him educated.
Give him an assault weapon.
And execute him.
All before he draws on Social Security
oh god, here comes the faith question.
Pray for us!
I think the faith question is a good question.
Looks like most of his prayers aren't answered.
God is bush's designated driver.
Which leads me to believe God is drunk.
"you're free to worship the Almighty or not."
Gee, thanks you fucking fucking FUCK FUCKFUCKFUCKFUCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!
"I pray that my little girls don't end up on a 'Girls Gone Wild' video...
"i find calm in the storm of the presidency."
that makes one of us.
Tweading vewy cawefuwwy
I believe we should love our neighbor like we love our spouse...I mean, self.
"never want to impose my religion on anybody else" HA!
"armies of compassion" me head is going to explode right n
And by their fruits shall they be known.
"GIFT FROM THE ALMIGHTY" FREEDOM THAT I PROVIDE YOU FUCKER.
Faith is part of his foreign policy?
Damn Yankees!:< 3/0
On the other hand Bush's answer to the faith question is shit.
sigh. Kerry's talk on religion is greatly calming.
The Indians blessed him with a carton of cigarettes!
shout out to the Native Americans!
This country DESPERATELY needs a leader that's not going to credit GOD as his primary advisor on foreign affairs.
I missed it. When Kerry said that the President thought that freedom was a gift from God, did Kerry say that freedom is a right that we have to fight for?
"you're free to worship the Almighty or not."
But we'll be standing by with assault weapons if you choose not to.
Who's your daddy!
"let me pay a compliment to the president if i may..."
no.
Didn't Kerry read the rules? No direct compliments allowed.
This foreign policy guided by Jesus.
thanks n BIG UPS for teh 2-way, forks.
Kerry said (rightly) that EVERYTHING was a gift from god, not just freedom.
"2-way"?
Did Kerry just reference the jailing of the third party cnaididates?
Good. K mentioned McCain's finance reform.
Ted Kennedy is clearly hiding in George Bush's closet.
No child left behind again! Aw, man, now I'm really drunk.
It's not just the pauses but sometimes he says words that'd make sense if they're written down, but he doesn't enunciate them right. It's like he doesn't know what he's going to be asked to say next (by the voices in his earbud)
/tinfoil hat
"no child left behind" : rule change, finish your drinks!
Bush suddenly loves Ted Kennedy. Let's see how long that lasts...
"We're in a period"? What the fuck?
Thump thump thump thump.
2000 election! OMG
He waited for the laugh that didn't come. I love it. Did nobody tell Bush about the rules he set for the debate audience?
lol.
you clarified two references, including the Sox score.
Don't forget to explain this to your SO.
I dunno, that last answer was so shitty that earpiece might as well have fallen out.
De.press.ing. And I haven't forgotten that Bush STOLE the election, either. Sorry. I cracked.
what kind of softball bullshit is this? Now Bush is doing standup.
I'm surrounded literally by these 2 strong women sitting under my desk...
"To listen to them. To stand up straight."
Ladies and gentlemen, the President of YOUR United States.
"To stand up straight and not scowl - oh wait, that was Rove"
"To stand up straight and not scowl - oh wait, that was Rove"
"She speaks English better than I do." Holy Shit this guy's a metophorical train wreck.
This is teh suckfullest final question in the history of suckfullest questions.
God Damn it Bush just made me laugh with the listening to strong women line.
I want them to talk about Monica.
Dear Debate Forum:
I never thought these stories were true until they happened to me. One time I was invited to a BBQ...
Kerry got off a Zinger!
I get you now mWhy.
Bush blames town of DC for partisanship. Film at 11
Married up?! Did you see Bush's FACE? *glee*
I think the moderator was in the doghouse with his wife, and he didn't feel like getting flowers for her, so he decided to mention her on national TV.
DrJimmy got off a Zinger!
Awww, poor Teresa. The botox won't let her cry.
Was the Kerry joke about marrying up supposed to be intentinally funny. The audience's response was a little clumsy.
Kerry's quips have consistently got better laughs from the "undecided" studio audiences.
Ideer?
...Intergrity, intergrity, intergrity....
Seems a bit limp.
Why does Kerry have to go first again? Wasn't he first last time?
Boston 0, yankees 3, top of the seventh
Houston 4, cardinals 6, bottom of the sixth.
Tender fucking moment. Whatever. Get on with it.
Oh shut up! Shut up! Just say something about the environment. Quick! Before it's over. Crap.
The audience wasn't sure if it was a dig or not.
If Bush continues to say "god CONTINUE to bless the United States" I might break my tv.
In the oral office, there's a painting by Tommy Lee?
The east is the sunrise side? No wonder I keep getting lost.
no closing statements? um, what is this?
Ok, whatever, that was cool. Hope you win, John.
If Bush continues to say "god CONTINUE to bless the United States" I might break my tv.
mountain. environment. there you go. Bush has promised not to destroy at least one mountain in Texas.
Sometimes it seems like Bush is going to cry.
Armies of compassion. Kill me now.
Is the army of compassion in the coalition?
And, I guess the achievement gap is closing. After all, he did learn the word 'litany'
bush sounds like an abusive boyfriend.
"Things are getting better baby, why you gotta talk about the bad times?"
Bush actually had a nice close.
Draw. WHich will probably be seen as a win for Bush, since he lost the first 2...
Bah! Boring.
And we're done. I was really paying far too much attention to my sarcasm than the debate, so I'll say that...it was a tie, with Kerry slightly in the lead, but Bush showing surprisingly strongly.
Hey while we're all here, how come the number of links and comments in my profile was reset recently? Is it the case with everyone?
Wow. That Teresa-Laura hug was hot.
I think Kerry's daughters are hotter.
Not that he isn't still the embodyment of evil, but it was a nice close.
pyrrthon1, nice of you to get out of the closet! We had an incident while you were gone. Yes, everyone is like that.
Probably effectively a draw.
Thank you forksclovetofu!!!!
Monkeyfilter crashed.
$10 to the first monkey who can get on CSPAN and be snarky.
Bush closed like a man who knew he would lose. I think even *he* was won over by John Kerry tonite.
Check the blog, pyrrthon. :-)
Media will play this as a tie - all the better to sell political advertising
I'd say Kerry ahead by 20%.
pyrr: I lost over 200 links! Jesus wept!
What was that yellow bracelet that Kerry was wearing?
Yeah, they actually both did good, 'cept when Bush started to do a quote, then decided not to.
Thanks for the Kerry Daughter's comment Senor Tofu.
CSPAN caller: Dude, you're not a candidate. Don't thank the network for covering the debate.
Toss up.
I'm curious to hear the factcheck on that "congressional black caucaus" thing. It was the only time where one of them clearly was factually wrong.
I say it's a draw.
@ darshon: thanks. And thanks for all the responses. I checked the blog but I ust scanned it.
Uncle, It was a wish bracelet. And you can guess what he was wishing for.
*swigging back the brandy* I'm depressed.
Thank You
This was a much better performance by both candidates than the debates so far. I think undecideds will be willing to vote for this Bush, just as they balked at the previous two Bushes. Kerry's answer to some questions (assault weapons, affirmative action, many of the rebuttals) were very well-crafted. If my mind wasn't made up already, I'd be less sure of whom to vote for, but more importantly I would be interested in hearing more about each candidate's positions. I think the best result of this debate will be an increase in voter turnout. Congratulations to both.
I'd say it was a bit of a wash, but I was glad to see Bush finally admit he can't speak English.
Oh well. Back to double posting for me.
CSpan after commentary is HYSTERICAL:
"Kerry is an ABOMINATION! THE LIBERAL MEDIA! ABOMINATION!"
The currewnt caller is... um... nuts.
Donation related as in you donate a dollar and you get one (at Footlocker). It's for cancer research I think.
damn typoing
the moderator did a really bad job, and yes CSPAN comments are GOLD!
Wow. That was disappointing. And Bush's horrible saccharin closing comment was just stupid. I'd love to have a look at that painting he referenced. Bet it's a real beauty...
I'm afraid we're screwed.
We should continue reviewing the CSpan comments.
These are fun.
I liked the last guy. He seemed reasonably intelligent at least.
"do you have a memorable moment of the debate"
Yeah, Drjimmy11 made this great Penthouse Forum joke...
I think someone should call up as a Bush supporter then say that the president really lost the debate, because he let down the republican party on this and that point. Mainly because I'm a troublemaker.
Oddly, Fark seems to be leaning towards Kerry. I say oddly because normally that place seems to be just swarming with Bush fanboys.
Our caller from Illinois is a college student in the dorm.
Why didn't Bush rip off his face to show his true lizardface as a closing statement? That's going to cost him the election.
Turn (urn) Down (own) Your (or) TV (ee).
Spider, I've been hitting the redial button like crazy trying to do just that.
Except I would end with HAIL SATAN.
I think it all depends on the spin. I think Bush is crackin' up and was really awkward at times, like everytime he tried to laugh at something. Though he did get illegal laughter and a "woo!"
Hahaha. Excellent plan, forks.
"I thought the things he said about religion were great, but his face was all droopy on the right. It makes me feel like he's droopy on the Conservative Right."
re: Yentruoc's link: it says this: One analyst has concluded that since 1976, 86 percent of undecided voters have voted for the challenger candidates. Elsewhere I've heard 2/3rds... at any rate it's encouraging. Anyone have any hard data from a better source than "one analyst?"
re: CSPAN callers. This is about on the intellectual level of TRL callers debating Backstreet Boys v. N'Sync.
Merely to make it 500 will I add one more comment.
grr
G'night folks. I gotta rest up before I go to work tomorrow and face co-workers who didn't watch and have no opinions they weren't spoonfed.
Fuck, you won't believe this. 10 minutes before the debate started I saw a bright blue flash outside my window and heard a loud THHZZZZZZZZUUUUPPP!!!!!SSZZZNAP!!!!! Then the lights went out. I thought my computer had exploded! I shielded my eyes! What have I done!!!?!? Then I looked outside and saw that the whole block was dark. Then there was a car crash over to the left. Must be terrorists! Ahhhh!! So I walked outside (naturally) and talked to the poor neighbours who were smoking a joint beneath the transformer when it exploded. They were just sitting there with big eyes and kinda shaking. They looked like they were giggling but they couldn't speak. Freaked out!! They offered me a toke without a word! So I'm a bit high and I've been drinking in the dark for over two hours.
WHAT HAPPENED!!!!?!! WHO WON!!!!???!
rowr
Apparently you, Jerry Garcia.
Ok, I have to go check out the smutty monkey now. Bye
Regarding the congressional black caucus:
Seems that Bush did meet with them, but only after he had refused to schedule a meeting and they arrived unannounced at the White House. Basically, they had to ambush him.
nite idest! You still win!
(written by forksclovetofu, addressed to george bush) Gee, thanks you fucking fucking FUCK FUCKFUCKFUCKFUCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!
forks: my hero.
Jerry G won? Cool!
(Watch the diabetes, boy)
Well done, Nickdanger.
yankees win
JerryG for president.
(just got home; looks like i missed a decent debate. bleah.)
Did anyone else see the infamous "bulge"? It looked to me like Bush was trying to keep his body turned towards the cameras, but there was one shot of his back at the very end when everyone was milling around...
Don't worry, the_bone, they're replaying it on CSPAN. They'll probably be playing it all night. I mean, what else do they have to show on CSPAN?
(Watch the diabetes, boy)
Point taken. Too late, but point taken. :-) I'm trying to lose weight.
I may as well be with the_bone and be happy about it... but no.... WHO WON!?!?! /......... I GOTTA KNOW!!!!!
I guess I'll have to watch it myself after the "fact". I was looking forward to it in real time. FUCK. GODDAMNED ELECTRICITY!
The flash-poll concensus is a Kerry victory.
CBS: 39K, 25B
CNN: 52K, 30B
ABC: 42K, 41B (38%R, 30%D, 28%Wafflers polled)
Make that consensus.
I haven't had cable in years. CSPAN therefore is not an option. Nor is some sort of Internetty streaming audio, because I'm on dial-up. I feel so Luddite-ish right now.
I'm going to go to sleep in a bit... in my cave, on a bed of twigs and small stones. I need to rub two pieces of flint to get a fire going first, though.
"[Laura] speaks english better than I do"
Damning his own wife with faint praise?
Unlike some of you here, I am not fazed by right-wing blogs. I've just completed my tour, and the chief right-wing points against Kerry are:
1. Kerry brought up Cheney's daughter and tried to make it personal.
2. Kerry was pandering. He promised jobs, higher wages, cheap healthcare, better education, more social-security benefits, tax cuts, everything but the kitchen sink.
3. Kerry sounded like an old, tired, worn-out, liberal Massachussetts senator.
This is provided purely for informational purposes.
I STILL HAVEN'T SEEN THE DEBATE!
WHO WON?
WHO WON?
I hear a cry of victory, another of defeat.
fuck
Fuck, you won't believe this. 10 minutes before the debate started I saw a bright blue flash outside my window and heard a loud THHZZZZZZZZUUUUPPP!!!!!SSZZZNAP!!!!!
Awesome!
Then the lights went out. I thought my computer had exploded! I shielded my eyes! What have I done!!!?!? Then I looked outside and saw that the whole block was dark.
Dude, you broke the whole block!
WHAT HAPPENED!!!!?!! WHO WON!!!!???!
The Cardinals.
:-(
So Kerry lost. FUCK!
Seriously, I rated it as basically a tie.
Did anyone else see the infamous "bulge"?
*snigger*
No I would say that Kerry won. Bush was visibly weak, vague, didn't answer questions and at one point totally vapor locked. Kerry looked presidential, and had command of the issues. Plus Bush looked like he had a fleck of foam in his mouth and seemed on drugs. That's normal, I spose.
Why does Kerry have to go first again? Wasn't he first last time?
Bush got the last word in all three debates.
"[Laura] speaks english better than I do"
I was thinking it was a not-so-subtle dig at Kerry's wife, actually.
I'm really disappointed that the moderator didn't ask ANYTHING about the environment, and then asked that closing non-question about whether they like their wives or not. I mean, why squeeze an important issue in there when you can go for warm-and-fuzzies?
That said, I hope there's a lot made about Bush's pointed refusal to answer the question "Do you [personally] think Roe v. Wade should be overturned?" Bush responded with his usual, "What you're askin' me is, do I have a litmus test?" No, Mr. President, I'm asking you if you want Roe v. Wade overturned. Period. That deserves attention.
But not one question on the environment. Grr...
i missed the blinkfest but from reading everything today it seems Senator Kerry won the debate.
On to the lawsuits! election!
Which candidate loves his wife more?
And where do they stand on puppies and kitties?
Voters need to be informed!
You shouldn't stand on puppies and kittens. You should hug them and pet them and squeeze them and treat them real nice.
Tell me about the puppies and kittens again George.
Does anyone ever win hands up? How about to the sides? Or maybe flapping around every which where? Or doing the Y-M-C-A?
Everyone always says their side won. I think we all lose, no matter who gets elected.
Hah, I didn't know that either. Thanks, squidranch! {banana}... err, I mean {fish and other invertebrates}
Okay, I've been reading a lot today about Kerry's supposed gaffe in mentioning (okay, blurting) that the vice president has a lesbian daughter, and how Mrs. Cheney is hopping mad about it. Apparently some pundits are taking up the talking point, saying it was in poor taste even while praising his other moves.
Now I watched the debate, and the question Kerry was answering was about gay marriage and whether the candidates thought homosexuality was a choice or not. I grant that it was obvious that Kerry was trying to make a point about the Republican ticket's split on this issue by reminding folks of Cheney's daughter. But I don't think it was a "cheap and tawdry" stunt--I think it's a legitimate talking point.
I mean, if Cheney and Bush disagreed on economic policy, it'd be fair game to say so. Cheney pretty obviously disagrees with the president's stance on the gay marriage amendment, and at the vp debate made that clear with his silence. Kerry said nothing demeaning or snide about Mary Cheney, just noted that the issue touches all Americans, even those in the Second Family.
Actually, Lynne's hissy fit makes it sound like she's ashamed of their daughter. Why else would discussing her be "tawdry"?
Now, I know he was bringing it up for political reasons, I just think it's a valid thing to do, given the issue. Your thoughts?
My thoughts: the Republicans would have an (admittedly weak) point if they had'nt spent the last two years of Clinton's presidency showering Chelsea Clinton with all kinds of abuse.
And Kerry wasn't even abusing her. That's my point.
Yeah, and besides Mary Cheney is in her thirties, openly gay, even a gay-rights advocate, and most importantly, a member of the Bush/Cheney'04 campaign. The people accusing Kerry of shameless politics are, to use an oft-heard phrase around here lately, reaching.
I am really curious what Mary has to say.
Actually if Kerry is elected, I think we all win.
It's only shameless politics if the ones claiming so feel that it's shameful to discuss homosexu...
Ooooh. Okay.
Well, the fact that Kedwards has the same policy on gay marriage as Buscheney makes his comments a tad...I dunno. Disingenuous.
Really? Kedwards are for the gay-marriage amendment? I had no idea. I've been misled!
The same policy, except Bush wants to amend the U.S. Constitution to forbid gay marriage and to allow local goverments to deny same-sex couples civil unions or domestic partnerships.
We need to find a way to make Kedwards a reality. Illegal and highly suspect surgery leads to the first president vice president single body candidate. With the guile and cunning of two politicians in half the space. They'd be the only ones who'd stand a chance against Zombie Reagan.
Kerry and Bush may have the same opinion on gay marriage, but Kerry has indicated that his opinion won't dictate his policy. I don't see how that's disingenuous. He's entitled to an opinion, as are we all - the problem is when that dictates public policy.
What does Kerry's opinion have to do with an election, then? If his opinion doesn't mesh with public policy and he doesn't intend to change pp in favour of his opinion, then bringing it up is just political maneuvering designed to say "don't look at me, look at the other guy! He's the bad guy!"
As it so happens, Bush's support of a federal marriage amendment banning gay marriage is all but a screen. Personally, I'm not a fan of him voicing support for some legal action (but not really throwing his weight behind it)--I wish he would simply declare that a Constitutional amendment is unnecessary, that decisions like this will be left in the hands of the states. Unfortunately, that seems to be more difficult these days, given some of our more erstwhile federal judges...
If his opinion doesn't mesh with public policy and he doesn't intend to change pp in favour of his opinion, then bringing it up is just political maneuvering...
Or, you know, he could be asked a question on this topic in a debate. What would you have preferred him to say in response to that question, which I quote below:
Both of you are opposed to gay marriage. But to understand how you have come to that conclusion, I want to ask you a more basic question.
Do you believe homosexuality is a choice?
Would you have preferred Kerry to simply rebut Bush's point that if DOMA doesn't pass then the actions of one state (MA) will affect those of another (KY, say)? Should he have not said anything about his own beliefs at all?
then bringing it up is just political maneuvering...
I meant bringing Mary Cheney up is maneuvering. It's not as if her lesbianism has anything to do with what he believes. If asked if he believes homosexuality is a choice, he can answer without bringing her into the picture. Doing otherwise, even if done with the best intentions, seems like a dodgy response to me.
(MA) will affect those of another (KY, say)?
Hehee. MA, pass the KY, please.
Bringing her up was good political maneuvering. Mama Cheney can stuff a sock in her cryhole. Nothin' but Rove-sponsored Spinerrism.
f8x: I do agree with you that Mary Cheney's lesbianism has nothing to do with Kerry's beliefs. The question is, however, if it was fair for him to bring her up in the debate. I can almost guarantee that not a single aspect of Kerry's beliefs—about homosexuality or anything else—has been influenced by Mary Cheney. Are you claiming that, in fact, Kerry should not have brought Mary Cheney up at any point in the debate? Can you give a test that I might use to determine what is or is not a fair debating tactic?
(I will readily agree that using Mary as a token "gay" person is quite awful to her, because she surely thinks of herself as more than simply "gay". Were she not publicly out, and a gay-rights advocate, I would be fighting at your side against the terrible way in which Kerry made a political debate personal. For example, I am quite displeased at the way some Democrats have been "outing" Republicans lately to win political points. It is an awful practice, and one of the reasons I cannot call myself a Democrat. In this debate, however, I think Kerry was not only respectful to Mary Cheney, but was also making a valid and effective point.)
fuyugare: Okay, here's a complementary example that would be just as odious (to my sensitive nature, anyway). Bush, in supporting an amendment to ban gay marriage, mentions that heterosexual marriage is at a critical point, that half of all of them (in America) end in divorce. He then goes on to say how Kerry's daughters understand the difficulty and distress of divorce. That is why we must not only fight to preserve marriage between a man and a woman, but also get better at keep those marriages intact.
Bringing up Kerry's daughters has nothing to do with Bush's point, except as a sort of cheap shot. At best, it's negative politicism.
I don't know, I wish Bush had said that because I really want to hear Kerry's response. Far from a cheap shot, I think pointing out that Kerry, who mentions his Catholicism quite often, has had a divorce is an excellent way to indicate his hypocrisy. They already do that with Kerry's stance on abortion and stem-cell research!
People in public life cannot really hope to be so sensitive. They surely don't need surrogates to be sensitive for them!
Not that I don't agree with you f8x (I do, in fact), but I also remember your amusement that so many of my liberal brethren got worked up over the leak that Bush is going to be holding off on major offensives in Iraq until after the election to avoid bad press. You effectively shrugged and said, "That's politics, what else is new?" to the intentional manipulation of a war for political gain, but somehow this seems to matter more to you.
I don't mean to put words in your mouth, so please correct me if I've read you wrong. I'm also not trying the "your guy sucks more" argument here -- I'm just saying, like you did in the other thread, it's politics.
middleclasstool: Well, if it was just politics, I'd agree with you. But he's brought it into the realm of the personal, which is a slightly different scenario. That being said, I still agree with you, which is why, despite my disagreement with what Kerry did, I'm not overly concerned about it or necessarily upset. It is politics, in an election year no less, and it's to be expected on both sides.
Though not necessarily approved of.
I should have made it more clear in the thread you mention that even if it is "just politics", it's kinda sleazy and unprincipled. But I think I did imply that politics is sleazy anyway.
fuyugare: the sensitive thing was kind of a joke. Sorry if that rubbed the wrong way.
That didn't rub me the wrong way at all. What does rub me the wrong way is that you still haven't indicated why it was so wrong to bring Mary up. I don't buy "realm of the personal" if that's your only counterpoint. Mary is an adult, public figure. She's the head of her father's re-election campaign, for crying out loud. If she is so offended by the mention, she should speak up.
wait wait wait . . . Poland is gay?? When did this happen?
We should all recall the words of Matthew 7:3:
Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the wood in your own eye?
fuyugare: I thought I had explained why it wasn't entirely righteous. See this post.
I don't get the biblical allusion.
lawsuits!election!