October 04, 2004

• I refer you to Sherwin Nuland's excellent book How We Die, which considers the several actual mechanisms by which all human beings die. It is enlightening and considers this very question.
• There are many stories of Bhuddist or Hindu "enlightened teachers" who . . just . . go. No gasp, no struggle, they just close their eyes and - there they go. It's all in the mind. /George
• A nice way to go. I wouldn't mind.
• This would seem to depend on what a particular individual is dying from, rolypolyman. In general, the body doesn't just die --blip -- all at once, there are variables. Breath can stop, for example, with the heart continuing to beat for a brief time, (as it may do in people with pace-makers). Death is a process, a cascade of events within the body as one organ or system, then another, shuts down. You've probably heard or read that hair and nails can continue growth for some time after death (true)-- for some cells of the body death will come very fast once there's no oxygen, no blood circulating, for others it takes longer. The point where the law says a person is dead, incidently, may not necessarily be the same in all cases, countries, religions, or cultures.
• Interesting story, Token Meme. Some theorize that laughing in your sleep is the result of the brain switching the scenario of the nightmare you were actually having into something "funny" in order for you to avoid the trauma of the dream. Unfortunately, your body still experiences the effects of the nightmare and you may even drop dead from it as that Thai man did in the story.
• ...even drop dead from it... Well, I can place no credence in that notion, now, badonkadonk, though it makes for a fine story. Died many times while dreaning (usually by drowning) and, lo! I'm still suffering from the illusion I'm alive if not, alas, awake).
• I don't think credence could ever be lent to such a theory bees (how could we prove it?), but it is interesting. Now about those drowning dreams of yours... ;)
• I think it possible. My grandmother died this past June. She just stopped breathing. My aunt who was with her at the time said she went peacefully. One has to wonder if part of the dying process doesn't have to do with your view and attitude on death (something to be feared or embraced) and the method in which you die - whether it's traumatic like a car crash or like Janet Leigh. beeswacky hair and nails don't continue to grow. What actually occurs is the body dessicates and the skin around the nails and hair shrinks giving the illusion that the hair and nails are growing. I'm with badonkadonk ... what about those dreams ;)
• Of course the flipside of the laughing death is nothing to chuckle at. Me, I want to go peacefully in my sleep, like my grandfather...
• My uncle died in July from cancer. At the time, he'd been playing checkers in his hospital bed with my aunt, then said that he was tired and would like a cuddle. She sat beside him and put her arms around him, and he drifted off to sleep. A few minutes later, he stopped breathing. I'd call that the perfect way to go.
• wow that's beautiful tracicle.
• As someone who has experienced far more than her fair share of death, I can say, without a doubt, that it is indeed possible, nay likely, to die peacefully.
• If only it could be that way for all of us.
• My father's obituary said exactly that: "died peacefully at home", but I was there, at his home and bedside, and the experience was anything but peaceful for him or me. He was in the late stages (as it turned out) of ALS (aka Lou Gehrig's disease) and suddenly his organs started shutting down and over the space of about two hours he went from being as sick as he had been for almost a year to suddenly being in distress and obviously feeling it. I have to wonder what organ failure feels like as the organs have no nerves of their own. He started turning purple in his extremities and his circulation was obviously failing (his hands became cold to touch, eerie). The alarm in his eyes - he only had his eyes to communicate at the end - will go with me to my own grave. He couldn't speak but he was obviously terrified and knew exactly what was happening. All I could tell him was that I loved him and it would be OK. What bullshit. Then he just went. I think the "died peacefully" reference is often for the benefit of those left behind who weren't actually present at the death. Saying that I know my old man was very scared of death and wanted to be around much longer thatn he was. Poor guy. :-(
• That's a very sad story, Jerry. My mother suffered a long illness which made her frequently uncomfortable, but not in serious pain. (She also suffered from dementia.) When her time came it was a blessing for all, including her. She had not wanted to be a burden. Her family was with her at her home, and she suddenly looked up from her sleep and opened her mouth in a gasp. We heard a sound emanating from her which I realize now could only be described as a "death rattle." But if there was pain in that moment, it was brief. Depending on the situation and the person or illness, it would seem death can be agonizing or peaceful. Nurses often comment that their patients have a slight smile on their lips after death. There could be any number of reasons for that, I suppose - physiological or psychological.
• I'd prefer not to die at all.
• Yes, bobbo11, my father smiled after his death too, but it was more a twitch than anything, I think. Nerves firing their last desperate impulse. He winked a few times too... It was weird. That's what my old man used to say, Nostril: "If I ever die..." and it was a great and recurring joke when I was a kid. He really did feel he'd live a long time and took steps in that direction (quit smoking, drinking, etc.). But then the lightning bolt that is ALS hit him and he never had a chance. He was 65 when he checked out.
• ALS is a terrible thing to bear, for the sufferer & those who love them. There was a British documentary show in which a cancer-suffering German or Austrian ex-pat in Ireland allowed them to film his last days alive, the process of his dying, and the last moments themselves. Even though he clearly was suffering (stomach cancer is very painful), and super medicated at the end, his courage and indefatiguable insistence that people should 'live together in peace', his lack of fear in revealing this most intimate of things to the world, coupled with his passing moments themselves and how his wife dealt with it, were terribly moving. Both my wife & I silently wept. I still think about him quite often. These days, death is shrouded from us. In the past, it was not when people would do their dying at home. Larkin wrote a poem about this which I forget but he hit the nail on the head 'closed like confessionals..' ambulances & hospitals separate us from this inevitable human experience.. one gains a sense of one's own humanity and the important values in life, when one is a witness to death. In not being able to witness the passing of a loved one, we are in fact missing a learning experience which can help us in many ways. I suppose. And grief is a burden we all share, which binds us together. Or at least, it should. In any case, I would hope to upload my brain, so that my experiences will not be lost forever. All these moments will be lost.. like tears in rain. Time to die. Unless it turns out like 'Cold Lazarus' - as entertainment for the future masses. My life would be a comedy.
• Re dreams: Would have appalling nightmares as a child, the wake-the-household-screaming kind; until one night while asleep I met this very wise old man who explained to me I would be able to tell after that when I was dreaming if I tried. I believed him, and that's how it's been ever since. I was eight and have nevr experienced a nightmare since. Heh. Who says there's no magic?
• not me
• I'm with Nostril. But as an alternative, I'd at least like to live long enough that I get sick of it, the way some old people do. Then I probably won't mind quite so much.
• a note of thanks to the red pump and the blushing bellows hanging in my ribs my gratitude is deep for all your years of dogged service and the subtle way your rhythms sway my currents feed all my little fish and never slight my shark
• Slight topic lurch: do you want to know you're dying or die unaware (asleep or otherwise unconscious)? I think I want to know. I think I want to register, however briefly, that I'm dying. Unless it involves terrible pain and fear, in which case I'd prefer an unknowing death. Ideally it would be as rodgerd described.
• As autumn passes after autumn eventually I'll be post-mortem. Until that time I plan to relish Life, despite the times it's hellish.
• Of course I want to know, otherwise I won't be able to prepare to project myself beyond the physical.
• Retroactively stipulates that Nostrildamus need not answer the question
• /runs away crying
• Nostril: somehow, I think that dying will take care of the projection without your active participation. I'm not afraid of being dead, but am a bit freaked out by the idea of dying. But, then, I am a control freak.
• I just wish to never know when I'm going to die, except 5 seconds beforehand. I hate deadlines.
• It was . . . the Salmon!!
• It was not the salmon, it was the casserole! In the Sining Room! With a Candlestick!
• That's some mansion you have there, beeswacky... a whole room dedicated to the capital of Qinghai!
• Actually, I think this house belongs to Colonel Mustard. He is planning to sack the cook any minute now. That is, tie the old wretch up in a bag and hung the works from a hook.