October 02, 2004

• But I never really accepted Pirsig's ideas. Great book, though.
• excellent link thank you
• One can read the book online. Nostrildamus, for those who haven't read it (like me), can you reveal what Pirsig's ideas are?
• Whooof. That's a toughie, Gyan. Aaargh, I think the Wikipedia article I linked probly does a better job of conveying it, except to say that its a very uplifting book, which that bland text does not make clear. Either it affects you very deeply & enters your world view or you hate it & throw it across the room. Pirsig tries to integrate Zen-like intuitive, non-rational understanding of reality with scientific thought in a cohesive philosophy, while still retaining an awareness of beauty. Phew. Essentially it is an extended koan using the narrative of a cross-country motorbike trip as framework for the inner journey of the main character, the retelling of the ideas of the main character's teacher to his son (his journey companion), & events that actually happened to his teacher. It seems that at some points the characters, teacher & student, become melded, or at least the narrative makes it appear so. It's been a long time since I read it, so forgive me. It's one of those books. His idea as I understand it seems to be an attempt to use quality or perceived value of experience to establish a coherent philosophy binding science & mysticism. Pirsig thinks that rationality is of value in determining ethics, I guess, which is how he deviates from traditional Zen thought, which doesn't have any place for logic as such. With his next book it sort of evolves into a metaphysical theory of reality, but I haven't read that one. This in no way sums up the complexity or depth of the book which I'm sure I only understood in a very shallow way. I've been meaning to re-read it, in fact, which lead to my original musings, & thus this thread. I was going to re-read it & write a screenplay from it, but that would be fucking impossible. You'd have to do a Naked Lunch sort of deal.
• But, Nostril, the protagonist's son's freak out kind of disturbed the whole Zen, and even logic things, as I recall. Maybe Pirsig was going somewhere else? But the book had a lovely aroma of pine trees for most of it. And I learned that one should adjust engines when in the mountains, not blaming the vehicle. I loved the book when it came out, but I think I need to re-read it. (Even though I haven't had that much luck revisiting icons of my youth.)
• I read it long before I was highly educated in all that he was criticizing. It's one of those formative books
• I will have to spill my guts and say that I haven't gotten further than halfway through the book. It was a very enjoyable and accurate tapestry of metaphor and adventure, but somewhere in the middle it started getting into philosophical abstractions that I could not follow. I kind of ground down at about that point. However I'm looking forward to tackling it again soon.
• I just read the first section of the book, and I had forgotten how graceful Pisig's wriiting is. And, while I normally don't find on line books all that readable, it works with this one, since the large format forces you to slow down and read every word. Thanks, Nostril and Gyan, for bringing this back.
• can you reveal what Pirsig's ideas are? In 25 words or less. Good on you for your answer, Nostril. That's a tough question to answer concisely. I agree, you either love it or hate it. I read it as a twenty-something--now, at twice that, I'd like to re-read it. It may be a book that speaks to different ages in different ways, but it just might work out to be the type of book that speaks to a certain time of life or set of perceptions. I'll get back to you.
• "In 25 words or less." Ha! me? I am too prolix. This is my greatest problem as a writer. It's awful.
• Well I read it when I was about 18. I neither loved it nor hated it; but I did enjoy it. It's been so long, I can hardly remember more than fragments - the philosopy class, the musings on the people who write instruction manuals, the strange dream near the end. I don't re-read books unless they're factual; time and place, impermanence and all that - like the guy in Lost Highway, I prefer to remember them 'my own way', not necessarily how they were. Having read, my reading eyes move on ... Excellent find, Nostrildamus.
• Like kmellis, I read it when I was much younger. I was deeply impressed by it, and it certainly helped that my first forays into philosophy had begun by the time I picked up Pirsig's book. My memory of the content is hazy now, although I do recall being very moved by it in parts, and struggling doggedly with the long, heady discussion of 'quality'. Damn. I'm going to have to hunt it down and re-read it. Right now.
• Doesn't Robert Reford own the screenplay rights? In the follow up book to Zen (the name of which escapes me) there is a description of Pirsigs meeting with Robert Redford.