August 15, 2004

• I've always actually rather liked the Star Spangled Banner -- it's a story, which I find more interesting than "We're great, we're really really great and also pretty" anthems. Canada's isn't bad though, with the added excitement of 2 official versions (English/French) that are totally different - in English it's sunshine and happiness, in French (the original) it's bloodshed and crosses. Plus written by a man blessed with a fabulous name: Calixa Lavallée.
• I couldn't agree more: 3/4 is boring. National anthems should be in alternating 7/8 - 6/8, with a 3/4 over 4/4 (optional 6/8 feel) polyrhythm leading into the free-time instrumental break. And they should be good to dance to.
• In Canada, we all just mutter when it comes to the lines in the other official language. It seems to work out rather well. I still think the best anthems are ones you can slam-dance to.
• New Zealand has a fucking awful funeral dirge. And for a nation which is apparently up to 50% of the population claiming to be irreligious in the last census, it seems a little off that it's centered around God. France has a great national anthem. The modern South African one is pretty damn stirring. And South American ones mostly seem pretty snappy.
• "I've always actually rather liked the Star Spangled Banner -- it's a story..." Yeah, the only thing missing is a lot of colourful pictures. Americans need the story to keep them focused otherwise they lose concentration and drift off, distracted by some other bright, shiny thing or large cheeseburger.
• Art generally suffers when put to a political (or perhaps it would be more accurate to say an administrative) use. Anything composed specially as a national anthem is likely to be dross: the alternative is to commit an act of artistic larceny by grabbing a decent existing tune - as the European Community did when it took the last movement of Beethoven's Ninth (music explicitly about the unity of all humanity) as a narrowly patriotic anthem for Europeans alone. What's the point, anyway? It's not just the tunes, the whole idea of a 'national anthem' is a piece of pompous nineteenth-century nationalism we should probably be better off without.
• France's is the best - all that blood of infidels stuff and whatnot. But Russia's could definitely use some work.
• France has a great national anthem Amen. And Russia had a run of them too -- "Bozhe tsarya khrani" (God Save the Tsar), the tune that booms out at the end of the "1812 Overture," is majestic; the Internationale (used in the early Soviet years) is tuneful and stirring; the Alexandrov song used after Stalin decided Russia needed its own anthem is all three. I'm glad the government decided to bring it back for want of a better replacement (though if I were Russian and associated it with all the awful things about Soviet times, I'd doubtless feel differently). And the Star-Spangled Banner is awful. It used to be a British drinking song, but you can't even sing the damn thing sober -- I have no idea how drunks managed. Plus it's all about bombs. What's wrong with America the Beautiful? Or, for that matter, Take Me Out to the Ball Game?
• Here's a bunch of lame midi versions of the world's NA's with lyrics, in case anyone was interested.
• *Yeah, the only thing missing is a lot of colourful pictures. Americans need the story to keep them focused otherwise they lose concentration and drift off, distracted by some other bright, shiny thing or large cheeseburger.* Nostrildamus, this isn't quite fair, imo. I don't need the story and I am not distracted by big cheeseburgers and shinythings. *What's wrong with America the Beautiful?* Languagehat, exactly, America the Beautiful, it is by far a much better song than the Star Spangled Banner.
• America the Beautiful is great, but the whole thing about God shedding his grace will put it outside the pale.
• Votes for the Archers theme tune to be the UK national anthem? Thought we needed a British bias....
• I have been to far too many rugby games where the crowd mumbles through the Maori verses because no one has a bloody clue a) what the words are and b) what they mean unless they're fluent in Maori. And yes, like rodgerd says, it's crap anyway.
• When I first got on a p2p, I tried downloading a bunch of anthems from various countries. I figured it would be a good way to expose me to some other culture. But all of the anthems I found were the same: orchestra music. I think an anthem should reflect the people's heritage and culture. The anthem for Japan should sound Japanese, the anthem for Egypt should sound Egyptian, etc. But all anthems sound British, and that (to me) defeats the purpose of having an anthem.
• Did you notice that the Turkmenistani anthem is on the midi site? It certainly has its own character. AND - the lyrics are not yet available. Maybe we could help. Bees! Calling beeswacky!
• Speaking of trhe limited attention span here in the U.S., Isaac Asimov had an interesting point about the Star Spangled Banner. (I remember reading this in Fantasy and Science Fiction a long time ago, and I'm happy to see it's on the web.)
• God Save The Queen totally sucks ass. Obviously the cringe-inducing (for Brits) nature of it makes me even less fond of it as a tune, but surely it's objectively one of the absolute worst? France's is great; ours just bangs on about beating the French. We won the wars, they won the anthem. In fact, hang on - is it just all the old British colonies (who speak English as the main language) who have ass-sucky anthems? Do the Belgians have a kind of indie-rock beatbox thing going on? Has Turkmenbashi instituted a strictly New Jack Swing style for the 'stan? But even then, it's not just British influence that can be blamed - Flower of Scotland's a fine song (one of the more modern anthems, and one that proves slow anthems don't have to be appalling dirges). My theory: anthems that specifically reference slaughtering English people are good. Anthems that vaguely reference English people doing some slaughtering - bad.
• As the lead article says -- anthems in general are pretty dismal efforts. I dislike national anthems in general since I regard 'em as a sign of human/international divisiveness. Too, for me many of 'em have ineradicable asoociations with war. But no doubt I am further to the left on this than many monkeys.
• Oz national anthem sucks pendulous ones. "Our land is girt by sea" indeed. Advance Koala Bear.
• "I've always actually rather liked the Star Spangled Banner -- it's a story..." Yeah, the only thing missing is a lot of colourful pictures. Americans need the story to keep them focused otherwise they lose concentration and drift off, distracted by some other bright, shiny thing or large cheeseburger. I feel so ashamed to live in a country where everyone is so fat and stupid. i am moving somewhere enlightened like Saudi Arabia ASAP. Really, rest of world, come on. yes, Bush is an asshole. But you're no better than us as people. You're just not. Get over it.
• Guuuhhd suuuhv uuhhrr graaaayshusqweeyn Luuuuhng lihhhhv uhhhr nuuuuuuhblqweeyn Guuuuhd suuuhv uuuhhhhrr qweeeeen. I was actually talking to my girlfriend about this earlier. We agreed that Radiohead should supply the new British national anthem - either The National Anthem (naturally) or Pulk/Pull Revolving Doors (mostly so that we could amuse ourselves by watching drunk football fans try to chant it). But you're no better than us as people. You're just not. Get over it. ...However, many of us can spot a tongue inside a cheek.
• "But you're no better than us as people. You're just not. Get over it." Sorry, but we are. Dream on. hehe.
• Seems like countries take themselves entirely too seriously, as evidenced by their anthems. Is there actually a anthem out there that has humor to it? All of these sound so fucking dirge-like. There's got to be something out there with a sense of humor, no? Kinda like UC Santa Cruz having the Banana Slug as their mascot.

• Flower of Scotland's a fine song

  But not a patch on Scotland the Brave. Granted, this verse:

  Far off in sunlit places Sad are the Scottish faces Yearning to feel the kiss Of sweet Scottish rain.

  Always struck me as a bit odd.

  Oz national anthem sucks pendulous ones

  It's better than ours, so quit crying in your beer. The opening's good, "for we are young and free".
• Most Aussies I know don't really regard the true national anthem as our *real* one. The *real* one is considered to be Waltzing Matilda, which is a song about a cattle thief who kills himself instead of giving up to the Law. Which says it all, really. And the title is possibly a reference to shagging prostitutes. And, yes, the tune was originally a German drinking song. And we have good beer. So I suppose that explains it all. I think really good national anthems should be rousing heavy metal music, in the style of Queen with super overdubbed overdriven electric guitars and multiple harmonised voices crying to God not to make our country anymore awesome or we'll explode. THAT's a fucking anthem. And with bagpipes.
• which is a song about a cattle thief Good Lord. What do you think a "jumbuck" is? quit crying in your beer 9.07 in the morning here, and not everything you've heard is true.

• Far off in sunlit places Sad are the Scottish faces Yearning to feel the kiss Of sweet Scottish rain.

  Always struck me as a bit odd. But quite possibly the most accurate lines ever written in an (unofficial) national anthem. I've never known a Scotsman who didn't look happiest in drizzle. To be honest, my Irish heritage and Cornish upbringing put me in a very similar postion. All that light and heat - it's just not natural. A howling gale and solid sheets of water falling from the sky... now that's proper weather. Oh, and I'm so totally better than Americans.
• Well a jumbuck is a sheep. And I had thought perhaps that sheep were a form of cattle. Or are cattle only bovine? I thought any herd of herbivorous mammal mass-harvested for bioproduce could be called cattle.
• sheep = ovine.
• Hooray for Banjo Paterson! I will, I will rock your kangaroo! Queen doing any unofficial anthem -- heh! Bohemian Kangaroo, hooray!
• flashboy, except those in Washington state. They share your rains. Unless you don't mean cold rain, in which case there a lot of USAns who could probably give you a lesson in rain. I lived in Oklahoma for a while, and if they didn't get 26 inches per year they thought they had a drought going on.
• OxFod saith: The application of the term has varied greatly, according to the circumstances of time and place, and has included camels, horses, asses, mules, oxen, cows, calves, sheep, lambs, goats swine, etc. The tendency in recent times has been to restrict the term to the bovine genus, but the wider meaning is still found locally, and in many combinations. Maybe you use "cattle" in a local sense. I find it less confusing to call a sheep a sheep. But whatever, dude was a rustler with contempt for the law who did himself in, and that's the important thing.
• From consulting my handy "dictionary", it appears cattle are compised only of genus Bos thus excluding sheep. Fuck knows what you call them en masse, I guess.. sheep. Fuckyaz. I didn't know this. I suppose I owe Wolof a beer. I'll send him soup instead. Anyway, the guy in the song stole a fucking sheep, alright? /grumble
• "You'll never take me alive, copper!" /SPLOOSH Stupidest. Crim. Evar.
• Oh, path, I don't deny the mighty and diverse rains of America. My two comments were unconnected, the latter being a mere flippant waggle in the direction of drjimmy. Indeed, had America not been bountifully provided with some majestic and beautiful rains, so many of our lot wouldn't have buggered off there after the English did that bad thing to us with the potatoes. My one complaint about Americans and rain is that you appear insufficiently obsessed with talking about it (we are masters of that). But then, I would say that the person who has perhaps taught humanity most about the correct miserable posture to adopt in rain is John Cusack, and he's American*. *Unless he's Canadian, like all other actors (who aren't Australian (or New Zealanders (depending on who they're punching at the time))).
• On the other hand, flashboy, I now live in a part of California where we get 4 to 6 inches of rain a year. I kind of long for a place where intermittant misty rain falls.
• flashboy: God Save The Queen totally sucks ass. Try singing these words instead: The King he had a date he stayed out very late he was the King. The Queen she paced the floor she paced 'til half-past four she met him at the door God Save The King.
• This Scots tendancy could explain my fondness for Wellington, where, to paraphrase one local wit, "It's just as well the weather's awful, or all those bastards from Auckland would move here."
• If Waltzing Matilda is the actual Ozzie national anthem, then is Tie Me Kangaroo Down Sport the actual Pledge of Allegiance?
• Want to improve the quality of all national anthems? I propose that representatives of every country get together (hey, the Olympics are on right now, giving us a great opportunity) and throw their flags in a hat. Then, every rep. picks a flag out of the hat and is charged with having his or her country write a new anthem for the nation whose flag was selected. Give them a decent timeframe -- a year would do -- and let those new anthems be played instead of the old, dried-up nonsense that we're all currently stuck with. I want to know what Senegal would come up with for China, and whether Australia would enjoy their new Cuban song. As an added bit of fun, we could punish countries who refuse to participate in the experiment (or who complain loudly about it) by covering their embassies in plastic flowers or holding down their ambassadors and dressing them in clown suits. I guess it's pretty clear that I view anthems (and flags, for that matter) as archaic and anachronistic. While identity can be useful to people, I find that too many of us bleat rather than speak when it comes to national identity, and bombastic songs and iconic bits of cloth really don't add anything to human happiness.
• No, Tie Me Kangaroo Down, Sport is the anthem of the Australian Bestiality Association.
• I think "Boogie Fever" by the Sylvers would make a fine national anthem for nearly any country.
• Yeah, the only thing missing is a lot of colourful pictures. Americans need the story to keep them focused otherwise they lose concentration and drift off, distracted by some other bright, shiny thing or large cheeseburger. Hey, wait a minute, that's not fa -- mmm, donuts!
• donuts, that is.
• The 'fork had an amusing little rant about the US national anthem a while ago. Personally, I'd prefer This Land Is Your Land seeing as how its "an elementary-school staple, with a three-chord, Carter Family-cribbed melody and even a proper chorus!" and I'll just ignore that whole Canadian thing. (WARNING: Bad MIDI)
• I agree with TSH regarding "This Land Is Your Land." It's easily my favorite American "patriotic song."
• I think the British national anthem is the best in the world: God save the queen her fascist regime It made you a moron a potential h bomb ! God save the queen she ain’t no human being There is no future in england’s dreaming Don’t be told what you want don’t be told what you need There’s no future no future no future for you God save the queen we mean it man (God save window leen) We love our queen God saves (God save... human beings) God save the queen cos tourists are money And our figurehead is not what she seems Oh God save history God save your mad parade Oh lord God have mercy all crimes are paid When there’s no future how can there be sin We’re the flowers in the dustbin We’re the poison in your human machine We’re the future your future God save the queen we mean it man There is no future in england’s dreaming No future for you no future for me No future no future for you
• I'd be completely okay with the Murkin-bashing if it were more creative. Americans are fat haha, Americans are fat haha, Americans are fat haha. Talk about boring dirges. Please, you can find something else to make fun of. We're a varied and often ridiculous people. I just have to say that as a mediocre but still paid-for-it quasimusician, the US national anthem is a pain to play. I mean, at sports events people will clap to congratulate a professional singer just getting through the thing without cracking on the high notes. I much prefer "America the Beautiful," but the religious reference would no doubt block it from ever becoming the anthem. I still haven't heard a song that makes me more patriotic than "Anthem" from Chess, which isn't even a real anthem. Figures.
• O Lord our God arise, Scatter her enemies And make them fall; Confound their politics, Frustrate their knavish tricks, On Thee our hopes we fix, Oh, save us all! I'm sure I read somewhere (?) that Queen Victoria was asked to approve a new version of this verse, about 'help save her enemies and make them good', but she said she preferred to go on frustrating their knavish tricks.
• If the Kurds get their own nation, I think they should adapt the song "Surfin' Bird" for their national anthem. You know how it would go...
• BTW, although the tune certainly makes it complete, here are the lyrics for Anthem: Anthem (from Chess) No man, no madness, Though their sad power may prevail, Can possess, conquer, my country's heart They rise to fail She is eternal Long before nations' lines were drawn When no flags flew, and no armies stood My land was born And you ask me why I love her Through wars, death and despair She is the constant We who don't care And you ask me would I leave her -- but how? I cross over borders but I'm still there now How can I leave her? Where would I start? Let men's petty nations tear themselves apart My land's only borders lie around my heart *** Of course, there will be great debate as to which country gets to use this. Thailand, meanwhile, can claim "One Night in Bangkok"--though perhaps it doesn't want to.
• I lived in Oklahoma for a while, and if they didn't get 26 inches per year they thought they had a drought going on. Here in SE Michigan, it's a crisis if we don't get that plus 30+ inches of snow a year, and most of it is about as cold as a bucket of ice.
• BearGuy and Wurwilf, I remember learning "Anthem" in high school when the senior choir sang a Chess medley for a competition. Loved it. Never seen the musical although #2 has, and he really like it too. "I Know Him So Well", though, drives me insane because it was so popular at my school (which was, unsurprisingly, all-girls).
• God Save The Queen totally sucks ass. Oh Lord our God, arise scatter our enemies and make them fall. Confound their politics, frustrate their knavish tricks. On Thee our hopes we fix, God save us all. The second verse sounds like it could have been written by Conan the Barbarian. As anthems go, it kicks a fair bit of ass. (I'm still partial to The Star-Spangled Banner, of course, because it talks about bombs and rockets, and because it's mine.)
• You forgot the verse with the crazy dog and the handbag with a brick in it.
• Never seen the musical although #2 has, and he really like it too. Went to the Australian premi
• I'd be completely okay with the Murkin-bashing if it were more creative. Americans are fat haha. No-one said you were fat in this thread. And Ha ha, the French national anthem shits on yours.
• Take Me Out to the Ball Game hear hear Sir Hat! Well spake! Personally I prefer the goetter version of "Helter Skelter" with the MonkeyFilter lyrics for the MoFi anthem. Please all rise . . . bananas to your ears . . that's right . . and ah-one, ah-two *waves arms spastically*
• biffa - Nostril was up to old tricks at the top of the thread. But anyway.
• Do you like your national anthem? No.