July 28, 2004

This is what democracy looks like.
posted by jccalhoun 20 years ago
  • That sound you hear is me vomiting. Apparently the new standard is that your rights end when my constituent's ears can hear them.
  • "One cannot conceive of other elements [that could be] put in place to create a space that's more of an affront to the idea of free expression," said U.S. District Judge Douglas Woodlock, after touring the Democratic National Convention's "free speech" protest zone in Boston.
  • Oops -- forgot this part: A lawyer for activists challenging the zone compared it to "a maximum security prison, Guantanamo Bay, or a zoo" -- comparisons Woodlock called "an understatement," although he upheld the zone for security reasons.
  • So all of these protestors are protesting the free-speech zone? What would they be protesting if the zone hadn't been created?
  • The convention that they came to protest in the first place, maybe?
  • Douglas Woodlock is to star in a new reality courtroom show this fall called Judge Quisling. I briefly entertained the idea of driving to Boston, and holding up a huge sign inside the "free speech zone" with the text of the First Amendment. If I were any closer than FL, it would have been a viable idea. Fantastic post, jc.
  • Oh, and before anyone thinks this is something new, it's been happening for years with no one except a handful of civil libertarians and protesters protesting it.
  • to continue the love for Jon Stewart (spilling over from another thread), I first learned about this on The Daily Show in Ed Helms' bit Freedom of Opression.
  • Old, and disgusting news. I'm just waiting to see what happens to my fair city in a month. God knows I'll have a front row seat for it, if theres anything i can do about it.
  • That's it. I'm voting for Nader. And I will vote 3rd Party in every election until the Democrats start respecting our rights.
  • Its a sad state of affairs, I am not so sure what American Freedom is anymore. For years I have felt very uneasy in the land of the *free*,free only if you are a sheep thats does just as big brother says, for your own good you know. Must not protest or disagree, blah blah.... I live in a very rural area, and no one here seems to care about whats happening to our rights, etc. Living in a bubble it seems. I get some bad reactions when I speak out at the local watering hole. Have been called a traitor for speaking out against government policies and for pointing out things like the free speech zone. *How dare I?* I dare because it matters to me. so sad.
  • a flash mob would cure it. That's it. I'm voting for Nader. I'm voting Gore as a write-in.
  • Any American politician should be ashamed of this kind of crap, since it happens in both parties, but my fellow Dems especially. We're the ones who talk the most about protecting the First, and yet they pull this crap.
  • Was this the Dem's idea, or the City of Boston's? Did the DNC have any say in security measures? What were the alternatives? We've seen protests for G-8 and world economic forums that attempted to shut down those functions. Could that have happened here without excessive security measures? This is a strange way to deal with controlling demonstrations, but I think the Orwell comparisons are a tad overdramatic.
  • Color me stupid, but is it made clear in any of these stories (which admittedly, I have done no more than skim) who is ultimately responsible for this pen-the-protest practice? Or on whose authority it is carried out? Is it the Democratic Party? The state government? The local government? The Feds? If it's explained somewhere in one of the many stories out there on the subject, I'm not seeing it, and yet I'd think it would be an important point.
  • Depends on the event. In this case, it seems to be the case of the convention organizers, who got the approval of the police and other authorities. In the cases of Bush rallys and appearances, that is entirely the Secret Service's deal. In the case of zones at colleges, it is the school administrators.
  • I believe it's secret service "working with" local police. I base that on foggy memories of past news stories regarding Miami, G-8, etc.
  • I'm voting Gore as a write-in. It was Gore's idea. And I'm begining to doubt that it will be much different under a Kerry administration.
  • ARe you sure it was Gore and not, say, the Secret Service or Columbia's Administrators?
  • shawn, Gore is the guy who has a long history of being involved, personally and with his wife, with pro-censorship movements. He's advocated censorship of the Internet because he believes when people have too muh information, they "make the wrong decisions".
  • "Free Speech Zones" are one of the legacies of the Clinton administration. They were started while he was president and didn't get a lot of press untill after he left office. There was an even more disturbing picture in the local college paper yesterday, but I couldn't find it online. (basically there was the cage and several law enforcement official decked out in full black swat uniforms standing in formation) I saw on television as well that the "free speech zone" also has cameras recording everything that goes on there. So not only are you encased in double chainlink and razor wire, but you are being filmed too.
  • Let's see who's hanging out in the free speech zones.
    At one point, white supremacists passed out anti-gay leaflets at the entrance of the zone, while on the other end, about 100 people rallied in support of Palestinians. Socialists trolled through the crowd hawking newspapers, while supporters of U.S. Rep. Dennis Kucinich's presidential campaign handed out his schedule.
    Thoughts 1) How would you monkeys like to behind razor wire with that group of misfits. 2) Ah, Dennis. Your party is nominating someone and it's not you.
  • Nazis, Socialists, Kucinich, oh my!
  • "Free Speech Zones" are one of the legacies of the Clinton administration. They were started while he was president and didn't get a lot of press untill after he left office. I call bullshit on that. Bush's people had protesters in Tampa for being at his political rally. Show the links about free speech zones and Clinton. There was not nearly as much security around Clinton.
    Last year, when three demonstrators were arrested during a rally for President Bush at Legends Field in Tampa, a protest zone had been set up a half-mile away. The trespassing charges against those three protesters were eventually dropped.
  • From The American Conservative (damn that liberal media).
    When Bush came to the Pittsburgh area on Labor Day 2002, 65-year-old retired steel worker Bill Neel was there to greet him with a sign proclaiming,
  • I call bullshit on that. Bush's people had protesters in Tampa for being at his political rally. Show the links about free speech zones and Clinton. There was not nearly as much security around Clinton. I never meant to imply that the restrictions placed on American's right to protest were as severe under Clinton as it is now. I meant to state that Bush did not originate the term. It may have been invented before 2000, but since then it has been ran with. Unfortunately, because of the frequent use of the term "free speech zone" in the news lately looking for older uses of the term on Google is pretty fruitless. I am not trying to dis Clinton, but to make it clear that it is a non-partisan event (which of course its use at the Democratic National Convention shows). I think I heard that they were started under Clinton on the news a couple years ago when the Seatle WTO protests were going on. The earliest mention of it I could find was from 1996 and another report from a person that says they first ran into them at the 2000 Democratic National Convention.
  • In democratic countries we let the protesters get so close that the politicans can reach out and strangle them when they get too much in their face. We also like to throw pies.
  • bah, somebody read that first link from jccalhoun and post the relevant parts here please. *drinks slowly from the brown-bagged bottle* *higc*
  • Honestly, I was just repeating something that I heard somewhere and don't really want to make a big issue of it. I don't really care who started it. I want to know who is going to end it.
  • I've been reading that the FBI are harassing people in the US mid-west area. Some people think they are setting up 'red-squads' again.
  • Here's a reminder of the British Deputy Prime Minister chinning one protestor.
  • I'm fairly sure the short answer is no.
  • Where there are lawyers involved, there are no short answers. It's an interesting legal question, though. Obviously there are limits on how 'free' free speech should be. (We all know the 'yelling "fire" in a crowded movie theatre' example). Should there be any limits on the protesters? Should they have been allowed to impede or block access to the Fleet Center? Get in the faces of the delegates? I guess it will be up to the courts if anyone wants to challenge it.
  • tom the dancing bug weighs in. Good stuff.
  • nice article homunculus. Can I blame the press now?