CIA Was Wrong
The Senate Intelligence Committee found that the CIA's estimate of Iraq's WMD was, well, wrong. They didn't have any WMD, nor did they have the capabilities. As of yet, it's the CIA fault.
read: Senate Intelligence Committee Covers Own Ass By Blaming CIA
It's not just the Committee. The dog pile is coming from all fronts.
Analysts' 'group think' blamed for false assumptions on weapons
`group think'? is that like a group grope?
Also on the BBC:"It is clear that this group-think also extended to our allies, and to the United Nations, and several other nations as well, all of whom did believe that Saddam Hussein had active WMD programmes. This was a global intelligence failure," he said
My ass!
Hey, America got our own Hutton Report. Cool! That just worked so well for Tony Blair.
Seriously, most of the intell came from the Office of Special Plans and Ahmed (I giv secrets to the Irans) Chalabi. Remember how the right said that the CIA wasn't looking hard enough. The neocons in the White House were saying that. Now it's the CIA's fault. Well, Tenet's, he drove the agency off a cliff.
See TPM for a realistic take on this report.
The short version: when you've told the boss over and over that he's wrong, but all your colleagues are playing along and saying he's right and getting promoted, you start saying he's right too.
The emperor has no clothes.
Public servants keep fumbling, making mistakes? What they need is some private contractors. Promise a hefty bonus and you'll see results.
Oh, no, Sully. We're getting our own version of this next week...
"Critics of the war had expressed concerned about visits to the CIA by Vice President Dick Cheney and other officials, but the report said it found no evidence that policymakers asked inappropriate questions of analysts or tried to pressure them into changing their views."Bullshit.
How is England in the fall? If things aren't looking any different by November, I may be looking to move...
Britain's Prime Minister, Tony Blair, said on Wednesday that he would co-operate with a parliamentary inquiry into his Government's use of intelligence material.
How do you guys think this one will pan out?
Y'know it just occured to me that when the soldier body count reaches that of the twin towers, people will really be lining up to kick the shrub's tuckus. What a maroon.
Britain's Prime Minister, Tony Blair, said on Wednesday that he would co-operate with a parliamentary inquiry into his Government's use of intelligence material.
How do you guys think this one will pan out?
The Butler enquiry will (I predict with reasonable confidence) be a damp squib. The thing was set up to focus on "systems, not people" - to not blame anybody for it. It also does not have the actions of politicians as part of its remit. The broad actions of politicians - their general influence on the intelligence community, their use of that intelligence in making their case - has thus fallen between the two enquiries, as Hutton explicitly stated it wasn't in his remit either.
Butler was set up in a manner so clearly designed to prevent full examination of the government and ministers' behaviour that the Liberal Democrats (the third party) never signed up to it, and the Tories withdrew their support after only a few weeks.
The only political fallout from this for Blair may well be that his appointment of John Scarlett as head of MI6 might come back to haunt him. Scarlett was chair of the Joint Intelligence Committee, which may be criticised, and he might be forced to resign as head of MI6. Blair was criticised for appointing the man (whose testimony to Hutton did so much to get the government off the hook) to such a vital position when this enquiry was still hanging over him. If Scarlett has to go - or hangs on grimly in the face of a critical report - that'll look bad for Blair, and will only emphasise the suspicion that the appointment was "favour returned" for his Hutton evidence, and his role in the preparation of the Iraq case.
A lot of fuss will be made in the papers and on TV, to be sure, but there will be no knockout blow to the government. Which, considering the case for war in Britain was necessarily based upon WMD (both in parliament, and crucially, in legal terms), is a bad thing. We still have not had the enquiry which will actually look at the real issue, and nor will we have (barring some astounding rabbit-out-of-hat legal action the requires the attorney-general to reveal the legal advice he gave over the war's legality).
What about the Rumsfeld's own Office of Special Plans?. Surely, since it was set up to question the CIA and get better intelligence, it must have stumbled upon the fact that there was a massive intelligence failure? Last I heard, it was not exactly arguing against the war...
Was the OSP incompetent or deceitful?
I think the groupthink was spread across a few more groups...
Was the OSP incompetent or deceitful?
yes.
The Butler enquiry will (I predict with reasonable confidence) be a damp squib.
Can I change my mind already? Just as I post that, Newsnight mentions that the FT has a front page story based on a leak tomorrow - and, well, there may be one or two interesting revelations, after all.
er, developing...
amphiboly ...Office of Special Plans?. Surely, since it was set up to question the CIA and get better intelligence, it must have stumbled upon the fact that there was a massive intelligence failure?(...)
Was the OSP incompetent or deceitful?
but you're assuming that the OSP can be held accountable, which i very much regret it cannot...
CIA was "wrong"
Thanks, freethought. I should have done that in the first place :o)
Ok. So now we know that the CIA made a mistake Well mistakes happen so how are we going to unkill the 12,000 or so civilians and the thousands of troops. I'm sure Geoege has a plan. He's does doesn't he?
I firmly believe this will finally force Bush to apologize to the world and resign.
Yep.
That's it.
Waiting...
Still waiting........
Ahh fuggit.....
They all must pay.
We're all registered to vote, right? Right? Right?
One of the things that seems to have vanished down the memory hole is that when Colin Powell gave the talk to the UN, he (reputedly) insisted that George Tenet be sitting behind him.
This was interpreted at the time as reflecting CP's (now seemingly vindicated) suspicion of the material Powell was being given to present. There was no way he was going to go out there on his own.
I think there's only one man that can solve these intelligence failures.
As a corporatist, I have no doubt in my mind that they fucked it up. You can discount the groupthink idea all you want, but from my vantage, that shit happens *all* the time. Boss wants results that conform to bossly expectations; lackeys deliver said results by hook/crook. It helps very little that the agency (a) has lost most of the grade A spooks that came out of OSS back in the late '40s and late '60s and *knew* some shit about covert ops, and (b) had their budgets cut and their asses smacked through most of the '90s. What you got was the last few Cold War devil-boys decided that life was better in the Fortune 50 (I've actually been in the same room with one of these guys) and they split. Im the meantime, as all we corporatists know, the lackluster intellectually but politically savvy have graduated up the ladder to positions where they can, in classic Peter Principle fashion, do the most harm. Combine that with the very real possibility that Hussein *had* WMD (he'd used them before, he kicked out inspector after inspector, he not-so-subtly insinuated that he had them in the run-up to the current festivities), and you have a pretty solid marketing campaign.
Sully, that dude was one of the Lone Gunmen, right?
Gotta be!
Wow, it's going to take a while to read that one, pete_best. But read it I will. Not only because there's some good links in there, but because I want to see what started the fight that led to "from one fucker to another, fuck you"
oh it got flamier too. Quons(ar/et) whips out the linguistic nunchaku.
Yep, it was pretty darn good. But what I really liked how the flames got, well, extinguished, and the discussion began again with a more civil tone. Well, kind of. But still, pretty civil when you consider what they're discussing. Oh, and it is really link-rich. I could spend all day in that thread.
But what I really liked how the flames got, well, extinguished
After the bucket of cocks was poured on them.
Oh, homunculus, thanks for that! I went ahead and read from the top, and when I got to that part, well, you know. The poor guy's having an emotional day, and I really do feel sorry for him, but "you can fucking choke on a bucket of cocks"?! That's the funniest thing I've heard in a while.
Wow. Wow. Not to repeat the "we ain't MeFi" stuff over for the billionth time, but I really don't want to see that kind of stuff happen here. Ever. But pete_best is a fucker.
...Office of Special Plans?. Surely, since it was set up to question the CIA and get better intelligence, it must have stumbled upon the fact that there was a massive intelligence failure?(...)
Was the OSP incompetent or deceitful? but you're assuming that the OSP can be held accountable, which i very much regret it cannot...