July 07, 2004

• MORE ADS! MORE MORE! BRING 'EM ON! ADS ADS ADS! *this posting brought to you by Post Toasties*
• Ha! I love it. Once again advertisers need to be confronted by the notion of 'efficiency.' Let them sweat.
• I can't say that I'd like to avoid advertising. Actually, I look at television advertising as entertainment in itself. For 15-20 minutes of every television-watching hour, advertisers have a chance to entertain me. If they succeed, maybe theirs will be the new product I try -- once. I can't imagine that this sort of response really makes a difference to their bottom line. I can't think of a single product I've tried as a result of its advertising and continued to consume. Most branded items just aren't that good, and ads don't trick me into thinking they are. I feel very sorry for the people who do buy the hype. I buy almost exclusively store-brand groceries. For the few items where the quality of national- or regional-brand items is significantly better, I will usually shop around for the best deal (I buy all my bread at a bakery outlet -- I still don't fully understand why they sell fresh items for less than half-price at these places).
• As a TiVo owner, I find I'm in the somewhat disconcerning habit of stopping the fast forward to see interesting ads. That happens only rarely though. And I tune out ALL internet ads. ALL OF THEM!! DO YOU HEAR ME FLASHY POP-UP PEOPLE?!
• My favorite are the ads that are being placed in the comments section of blogs. Now that's fun to see on your site. I finally had to remove the comments section from mine. It was becoming too much of a pain in the ass to remove all the spam everyday.
• God, yes. I don't know why, but web ads bug me more than anything. Probably because I'm on dialup and loading them just slows me down.
• Web ads are teh suck. The Adblock plugin for Firefox has really improved my web experience immeasurably.
• So out of 6 commenters, approximately four of you feel "constantly bombarded by advertising". So? Who is it? And how could you possibly buy Coca Cola feel bombarded?
• ass-vertise
• every time i have to use someone else's computer, it astounds me that they would willingly subject themselves to as many ads as they do. once i went from netscape to mozilla, i stopped seeing ads. no popups, no pop-unders, no annoying flash with the flash-block plugin, no seizure-inducing "if this link flashes you won a prize" gifs when image images are set to "loop once then quit". i don't know why people who use internet explorer keep buying programs to add to it to stop this stuff, rather than just going to a free (better!) browser that does it all at once, and eliminates the adware insecurities. (i hand out freely the URLs for ad-aware and mozilla/firefox to everyone i see who suffers from popup ads. the office staff in my department are pretty damn happy i told them about the software, and our entire library was just forcibly switched to mozilla firefox - which my wife had already been using on her own, probably one of the only people in her dept. to do so - due to security reasons, spam and adware among them. this is at a very large state university, too - that's a lot of computers to lock down and switch over. that's one measure of how annoying this stuff is.) dropping my landline in favor of a cellular phone (and maintaining a high level of militance over who does and does not deserve to have my number) reduced my incoming telemarketer calls to zero. it also cut down on the amount of junk mail i get through the post - the phone company is selling your number and address, folks, without your permission. cut out ma bell and you'll cut out most of your incoming junk mail. free web mail is another spot i can kill the ads - my father-in-law uses hotmail, i set him up with hotmail popper (the old free version, not the new paid version) to allow him to use a real pop3 client rather than the ad-laden, often changing hotmail web interface. this was more for ease-of-use than for ad-elimination, as this way he uses the same cleint i do and can be talked through fixing problems over the phone if need be, but it does kill the ads - even the ones embedded in the tail end of every hotmail message, asking you to use microsoft products and services. similar programs exist for yahoo (yahoo pops! is one) and even the almighty google mail (pop goes the gmail is the first i found). so in summary, what with all the above crap, the "oh shit it's a commercial, hit the mute button" reflex while watching TV, and the switch to exclusively listening to the local campus advertisement-free radio station, i keep the ads down to a minimum. but the real point here is that you need to go to amazing lengths to do so - and that shouldn't be necessary. i would much rather live in a world of sly product placement ("look, clint eastwood is drinking a coke while driving in his chevy!") than in the current world of constant bombardment from every angle. i don't like having to jump through the hoops just to keep my sanity.
• I love people that say "advertising doesn't work on them". There is probably a soda that you would like much more than Coca-Cola but you don't drink it because you don't know it exists. Do you go see certain movies because you're a personal friend of the director and they told you about it? -And only the real ghetto companies still do popups.
• Sorry Caution ... dumping your landline for a moby will only introduce you to THE MOST ANNOYING FORM OF ADVERTISING YET. Spam texts. Yesterday I got 5 text messages from the same company offering me the chance to ... well I dunno what they were offering me the chance to do as I deleted them before reading them. After the 4th I phoned them up and asked them to stop texting me (probably a mistake) so they sent me a 5th. Bastards. OH AND GUESS F%$*&"G WHAT ... as I wrote the word bastards ... they sent me another ... blood pressure ... blood pressure ...
• blimpchimp: You're comparing apples with walnuts there: both grow on trees, but they're vastly different fruits. Movie advertising must exist because of the constantly rotating stock and context required; normal people don't just go to the theater and pick the one with the nicest title. Other products, though, could, potentially, exist on their own merit. I go to the supermarket and pick up whichever cola is least expensive; I've learned that the difference in taste is negligible, and certainly not worth the cost premium (do people really pay $1.59/2L for Coke?) The main goal of advertising, in this case, is not to promote brand recognition (which is, admittedly, a secondary goal), but to give the impression of value. If I see an ad for Coca-Cola and decide that it has some quality that makes it worth the price premium, the advertising has worked. Otherwise, the money is wasted. Admittedly, though, in a situation where only "premium" brands are available (often at a convenience store), brand recognition plays a part and advertising dollars pay off.
• As a consumer, I value all advertising. Advertising helps me connect with the products that are right for me and my family. Sometimes, I do not know that I need a product until that product shows up in a brand new set of upbeat commericals on the television. Thank you, advertising! And it's only going to get worse. (Link gets points for pretty bad use of "Kafkaesque".) Fortunately, there is hope.
• much as I loathe advertising when it gets in my way (95% of ads encountered on the 'net, every car commercial ever, those little cardboard slips in magazines) -- and much as I would like to corral all ads into one easily-ignored space -- I am happier to have ads properly acknowledged as such. When watching most TV/movies, I cannot help but be distracted with wondering whether/how much is product placement, personal preference of the artist/prop master or just using what was to hand. When I see product placement in books it kills me. re TXT ads - will they be/are they in North America? With the different billing model, I'd be surprised that they would be allowed. Anyone?
• amphilboly: I'll see your Kafkaesque and raise you one Brave New World reference. in re blimpchimp's comment: right now I drink delicious Pepsi Blue Diet Coke with Lime only because King Soopers hasn't released a generic equivalent. And no, advertising doesn't really work on me. I loved the burger king chicken and office geek ads, but I don't eat burger king. When commercials got to be so Seinfeldian that they were thirty second spots about nothing in particular anteceded by a product logo and/or name, I really stopped caring.
• This is a nice on-topic article from last week's LA City Beat about advertisers targeting children. I don't really watch much broadcast TV anymore because I can't stand the advertisements. Sometime about two years ago I just started getting particularly annoyed by them and just can't stand watching them anymore. The spots are generally repulsive and offensive. Be it the rampant sexism of beer ads, the unpleasant detailing of pharma side effects, that fake-viagra commercial with the smiling guy and his sexually satisfied wife. No thanks.
• The only ads I watch these days are either movie previews or featured on adrants. (slightly NSFW, for certain values of S.)
• If you think ads for actual products are irritating, how do you feel about ads made on spec? [via The Black Table.]
• the rampant sexism of beer ads, the unpleasant detailing of pharma side effects, that fake-viagra commercial with the smiling guy and his sexually satisfied wife I think you've just described everything that is awesome about television.
• Thanks shotsy I forgot to rail against advertising to children :) When was the last time you watched broadcast Saturday morning cartoons? The ads? Hoooooly crap! They are SO not worried that someone will call them on filling the kids' heads with crap*. * senseless materialism, lookism, big-brother-is-great-ism, bagism, ragism, . . oops
• Well, there's the reverse sexism too: wife is shopping in store or doing something in the house, husband is doing something extremely dumb. I think there's more of that going on then the dumb-broad stuff in beer commercials.
• *than*
• Saturday morning commercials are no different that when I was a lad, and I didn't turn into a mindless consumer-zombie. Now who wants to join me in a nice refreshing Coca-Cola?
• also *than*
• I wish media theory was sexy. Sexier. Cuchi! Cuchi!
• In college, I took a sociology class about media (it was senior Spring, give me a break), which was taught by a late-30s, very NY-Jewish professor who came in every day dressed pretty much like Ali G. He liked to play the hippity-hop music to get us "in the mood" for his lectures.
• rolypolyman: I entirely agree. There is one car commercial that particularly bugs me in which a husband is grilling and talking to his male buddy and his wife is arranging flowers and talking to her buddy and both talk about how they conviced the other to buy the SUV for entirely different reasons. He for male reasons (Hemi), she for female reasons (She can pick up the kids from soccer practice). Um. If I can quote Sparks: And they were happy as they were Everything around had changed But they had never, ever changed It ain't 1918 except for there two-it ain't 1918...
• dickdotcom - no txt ads here. not yet anyway, or at least not pervasive - was sent one at valentines day, reminder to order flowers, but apparently the backlash to the company was enough for them to not do it again. and i'd drop a carrier that started regulary sending them to me like a bad habit, believe me. if i pay to recieve it, they sure as hell can't expect me to sit there and take it. nothing in my customer service agreement that says i have to allow them to advertise on my phone and then expect me to pay them for the privelidge of doing so.
• I get spammed on the phone by my carrier--AT&T, and I've gone to their website no less than 5 times to "update my marketing preferences." They'll be first against the wall when the revolution comes. But yeah, regarding advertising in general, it wouldn't be there if it wasn't effective. It costs a lot of money to advertise, and if it weren't bringing back in much much more in revenue, they wouldn't do it. A vital element to my getting a paycheck every two weeks is the ability of my company to PROVE to our clients that money spent with us makes the more profitable. Uncleozzy, did you know companies pay supermarkets for shelf space?
• The main reason I no longer watch TV is because of advertising. I can't afford wasting that much life. I buy a car how often? Yet, I have to watch ten car commercials in an hour. No thanks.
• Bad Ads! Share the outrage.
• rolypoly... reverse sexism? Isn't it just 'sexism'? Regardless, the dad is almost always depicted as the bumbling idiot who burns the supper, can't bake a cake, doesn't know how to change a diaper, doesn't know how to do laundry, etc. And when mom gets sick and dad has to take over the domestic chores (because he obviously never does), *all* of this chaos besets dad and the fam at once! Better just have a seat on that leather couch, watch the football game on your oversized flatscreen TV, and drink your favorite domestic pisswater beer, dad. As a single dad, these stereotypes are offensive not only because of their portrayal of the american dad as dufus, and the american 'mom' as maidservant, child-rearer, and caretaker... but rather the very fact that they promote and then reinforce antiquated and disempowering family gender roles: • Stained clothes? Momma gets them out with ALL, the stain-lifting detergent. Dad doesn't do laundry. Or, he is the foil that buys shitty detergent, which does not remove stains. • Choosy moms choose Jif. That's right: choosy moms take someone else's word for it! But dads either don't buy groceries or they don't buy "good" peanut butter because they don't give a shit about their kids. • Robitussen cough syrup is recommended by Doctor Mom, whoever the fuck that is. We are lead to believe that Mom's innate, magical abilties in the field of home-quackery is to be given the same (if not more) credibilty than a Doctor Dad, M.D., for example. • Kix cereal is kid-tested and mother-approved. Apparently dad's approval means nothing. Or, more likely, he just doesn't give a shit about the nutritinal quality of his children's food. My thoughts on advertising, in general, can be found in this thread, followed by a humorous Futurama(?) quote from dng. Essentially, advertising is propaganda. :( Viva la resistance!
• ...did you know companies _pay_ supermarkets for shelf space? Not only that, but they pay for *good* (read: eye-level) shelf space.
• shotsy: in Scandanavia, advertising to children on TV is banned. So is "programming" that are projan horses, like Pokemon.
• Saturday morning cartoons? Pokemon? Here in the US, the advertising is the content... hence, Advertoons. They were banned, until 1983 when the FCC lifted the restrictions... thus allowing He-Man, TMNT, Thundercats, Pokemon, Digimon, Transformers, etc., etc., to flourish. Hilariously parodied by The Simpsons, episode F515:

  The Mattel & Mars Bars Quick Energy Chocobot Hour [The program begins. The Choc-O-Bots are at their command center.] Choc-O-Bot: You can count on us, Mr. President. Major Nougat! Gooey! Cocoa! Put down those entertaining Mattel products! Colonel Kataffy is up to his old tricks! Cocoa: Let's power up! [Bart and Lisa watch the show on TV from their living room.] Lisa: I can't believe they canceled us for this s... Bart: [interrupting] Shut up! I'm trying to watch this!

• Yeah, pokemon is not great tv. The animation is subpar. Banning it though. That's way big brother for me. I dunno. I think the freedom to rot your mind with junk television is one I'd fight for. Do the people really want the government nannying them that much, or is just tolerated because of the other benefits?
• pez, children don't understand that what they are watching when they watch garbage like that. oh, and People tend to get mislead when they are lied to. it is deceptive to have a 30 minute commercial aired as if it were a normal cartoon!!! nobody is banning advertisements, but rather deceptive advertising. there is a huge difference between shitty programming and misleading advertising, also known as 'bullshit'. this is the same reason that magazines print "Special Advertising Section" or whatever at the top of an ad, complete with phony byline & dateline, that is purposely made to look as if it were just an innocent magazine article extolling the virtues of whatever snake oil they are peddling. Ditto for those "The following is a paid advertisment for Snake Oil, Inc., etc" messages displayed before an infomercial begins (in the form of a phony talkshow, with phony experts, etc) ...else "these people are paid actors. we are paying them to lie to you."
• I worked on a ballot campaign several years ago on which the opposition ran commercials full of lies and inaccuracies the weekend before the election. At least 10 campaign volunteers asked me who we were going to talk to about getting the commercials pulled. These intelligent, informed people all believed that it was illegal to lie on television. Explains a lot, doesn't it? On another note, I'm intrigued by this: "Almost 70% said they would be interested in products or services that would help them avoid marketing pitches." How would you market such a service? Especially how would you market version 2?
• werd up Wedge - go 'head!
• Wedge: That's just merchandising. There's nothing misleading about it. Would you call Spiderman 2 deceptive advertising? They're selling a lot of toys, after all. I'll admit there's some overlap between the programming content and the pushing of the merchandising, but the difference breaks down like this: If the broadcaster pays for the show, it's programming. If the broadcaster is paid for the air time, it's advertising. In the case of Pokemon, well, it's programming. It entertains the kids. It also helps sell cards and dolls and video games. Believe me, I know, my kids are way into this stuff. But when I was a kid I had a few toys based on movies & TV shows, too. (Remember Star Wars?) Advertising is a fact of life. It can be deceptive at times, and prey on peoples' limited intelligence, but it also allows me to access free (almost) entertainment and information. My enjoyment of radio, TV, and internet is brought to me by advertising, and I like it that way.
• I don't know if pokemon is stealth advertising. I'm not sure I see the difference between it and let's say Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles. Every character on the show had at least one figure, a couple of games were made, comic books. To me it just seems wrong for the government to say you can't watch pokemon. Unless they ban all the other cartoons, (in which case they are horrible childhood stealing automatons), then frankly pokemon just seems like another show. Now, if the parents want to not have their kids watch something that's a different story. I guess to me, you'd have to first prove it was worse, then you'd have to convince me that it was any business of the government's whether my kids were watching it. Luckily, I don't live in Scandinavia.
• There used to be laws governing how soon after a given show you could advertise products from that show, but the ever-watchful FCC said that more money could be made if you just said what the hell. Get up a get get getdown, FCC is a joke in your town.
• • First, I reject the premise that a corporation is a person, entitled to the same rights, privileges, and protections as individuals. Second, commercial speech is not equivalent to protected free speech; the government can and does regulate it more than other types of speech. (Virginia State Board of Pharmacy v. Virginia Citizens Consumer Council; also see Kasky v. Nike) Regulation of this type of speech is unlikely to have the chilling effect that you claim, pez, as the
• Choosy moms choose Jif. I *just* saw a schmaltzy-ass, gag-inducing commercial (a new one, I think) for Jif. A little girl and her dad were spreading peanut butter on bread together, in a very sentimental way. At the end:

  Choosy moms ...and dads choose Jif.

  The dad wasn't portrayed as a bumbling idiot... so that's cool, I guess. And there actually was a dad, so that's cool, too. But I was still a little creeped out by the romanticized sappiness they were trying to peddle. It's frickin peanut butter, forchrissakes.