July 02, 2004

• You're not alone. Trac's blog has also addressed the issue of a possible "MoTalk" to address some of the problems (but the potential for the abuse of this system is high). Personally I think it may have just gotten a little relaxed around here and maybe #1 should start pulling on the reigns a bit more. I'm not calling for all-out censorship on posts, but some things are just plain and simply not in good taste and there's no reason it shouldn't be pulled from the front page. As for the poo-flinging within posts, I think this is a tough medium to communicate with. Misunderstandings are common occurences and of course with the hint of anonymity people are generally free to say what they want. People are going to abuse that and the only thing we can do to stop it is try not to send that ball rolling when a particular post bothers you. I think some of the first posts to different threads shape how the entire conversation goes. Make the most of it if you are one of the first to comment. If you don't like the thread, be kind about it, don't be a jackass. Lastly, as members of this community we all have each other's email addresses. Take up the personal stuff amongst yourselves. Don't create threads just for the purpose of calling someone out and don't start bickering off topic like kindergardeners in a thread that was created to promote discussion. Issues can be dealt with in a more personal manner and would lead to threads that remain more on topic with less of the brown stuff staining the walls. Sorry for the long post, just thought I would vent my feelings on the issue. Discuss Discuss!
• What genial said. Incidently. Are we barred from now on to make fun comments that could be missentrepred as poo-flinging and all? This could get really boring. Although I, for one, learned my lesson and try (I said, I try, not always succesfully) to moderate my own comments. I was too sarcastic and bitter when this all started. Now I'm all hugs and cuddles.
• We're monkeys. Monkey's fling poop. Until someone loses an eye, I'm not really worried.
• I'm not really for censorship, but trac's the one paying for the hosting, etc. so she has the keys. Those who respond with foresight and general respect will in general be respected. Sometimes it is hard to resist flinging poo, especially when a lot of us are restricted from airing our beliefs off the keyboard. I think labelling posts is a good idea and that any posts which do not provide accurate descriptions are candidates for pulling (or editing). This is simply respect for fellow monkeys who may not share our tastes or beliefs.
• I agree with the idea of MoTalk and the notion that Trac always gets last word. Also, I get really annoyed when everyone gangs up on a few outspoken individuals in a rather one-sided argument (and I think we can all think of a few things where MoFi is 95% in agreement about.) Just because someone has a differing viewpoint stated from yours doesn't mean that (s)he is attacking you. I believe in not saying anything in the Lavender that I would be ashamed to say or have my name attributed to in real life. I mean, it's easy to figure out who's who anyway, I guess. I mean, we could always be nicer generally to each other. Hugs, not drugs in excess!
• heh. I have been busy lately & made a point today of doing a search on "daisy may" cause I saw references but didn't understand them!! how did I miss that whole tempest in a teapot? I remember looking at the original post & first few comments, but it didnt hold my interest.... I am one of the many who found monkeyfilter cause I couldn't get on meta. now that I am on here I find that I don't really have that big of a desire to join metafilter anymore. what I am saying is that I welcome our Tracicle overlords :D
• Why dont you all just flame me instead of each other? I can take it.
• First, yes, rule #1 is paramount. genial and Zemat, I agree - I think using e-mail to resolve problems is an excellent idea. It
• I'll say again here what I put on Tracy's blog. If you want good content on MoFi don't claim for it. Post it.
• Guess we're just getting acquainted, finding the middle ground for a civilized discussion. The way I see it, unless the motivation for those latest 'extreme' posts was simply to rattle the cage, the fact they ventured such themes was simply to probe the interests of members. They should have looked more closely to the faq, and analyze the level of most posts; now they know that most of us aren't interested in some activities or attracted to talk about them. What to do to raise the bar? Post. Post interesting stuff, not just stuff that's on every other mainstream site. Sure, we all get an itch to lift a link from, say, Mefi, in order to voice our opinion, but finding rare links, sharing and commenting on them is what we're in for here. Civility... well, we can't expect a barrel of monkeys to be very orderly ^_^, but off-site settling of differences should be encouraged. Having Tracy step up as bouncer on every thread brawl would be tedious. Better have the implicit warning: we've all been asked nicely to behave, and agreed on it when joining. Next warning means you lose your account. Anyway, thanks to Tracy for keeping the cage well-stocked and reasonably clean. I promise to refrain from flinging much.
• I've been doing some emailing today that has smoothed over a few wrinkles, I hope. Add to that a little self-awareness on the part of most and I should hope that things have settled down for a while. I said on my blog that I wasn't a fan of the more...farkian posts lately, but I don't want to be Grand MoFi Censor unless it's absolutely necessary. I'll wait for multiple requests before deleting any post, and I won't delete comments until I've implemented some kind of "This comment has been deleted by tracicle" spacefiller, and then only if they're blatant trolling. I don't intend to let things get as out of hand as they have recently, and I now have a better idea of my role in the site and am a little more willing to call someone out via email than I was. I love reading MoFi 99.9% of the time, and you guys are really good at diverting potential flamewars before they can erupt. I hope that the last week or so will give us all the incentive to avoid something similar in the future. What forky said at the start of this thread (particularly points 2 and 3) is especially valid. Although many monkeys pride themselves on not being Metafilter, any large online community is going to suffer the same effects. Our achievement will be to avoid that as much as we can. Keep using my blog and emailing me if something's up; I don't always catch everything that goes on, and because of timezones it takes me a while to catch up every morning. :)
• Bravo for Tracy and her zero-tolerance guide to punctuation.
• This is awesome. Some of the most intelligent stuff I've read here in weeks. I, also, started here because I couldn't get onto MeFi, and I quickly found I like this place a whole lot better. It's mellower,less political, and generally more fun. I would like to join the chrous in giving mad props to froksclovetofu for his (her? its?) wisdom. While I am a major advocate for completely free speech (if I can speak my mind, so can the Neo-Nazis), this does indeed remain Monkeybashi's party and we remain subject to her will. Fortunately, she has proven herself Wise more than once, and I am glad she is in charge. ALL HAIL MONKEYBASHI!!! I am in favor of the "take it up in email" idea, but for different reasons. Mocking someone in public is rewarding when the crowd laughs, but berating someone in private is a whole different animal. When there is no one to laugh, the mocker does not get the same elation out of it. To take it to a personal note: I had a friend die just the other day. He was a member of the theatre company I am working with, and it was a heavy blow to all of us. In the company meeting that was held to announce this tragic turn of events, our producer ended with this statement: BE GOOD TO EACH OTHER It sounds simplistic, but in the light of a lost friend it resonates very deeply. All we really need to do is be good to each other. There is nothing wrong with a little friendly poo being flung. Friends are people who can good-naturedly fling poo and come out fonder of each other at the end. It's the malicious, hurtful poo that we need to be concerned about. And as has been previously stated, the best way to deal with that is not to dignify it with a response. I guess I can sum up my thoughts with this: If we don't stoop to thier level, they will get bored and go away. Bannana-laden hugs to all my beloved Monkeys
• I love you all. I really do. Although I must admit to having a shortlist of ones I love a wee bit more/longer. *cough*wolofbeeswackymonkeybashipathbluehorselanguagehat...*cough* Ever since some nasty online incidents almost three years ago, I decided never to get involved in a forum or blog again. Then I came across MoFi. It still took me a good three months to jump in, but I'm really glad I did. Another two cents worth: Sometimes it's hard to see what a comment really means. Was the person being sarcastic? Snarky? Deliberately or backhandedly insulting? It may be counterintuitive, or feel like we're being foolish, but let's try to assume the best in what everyone says, when we can. That will cut down on lots of misunderstandings, animosity, grudges and arguments, I think. Just a thought. Yeah. Be good to each other. That's good advice.
• Younger monkeys may not remember, but an early thread (we're talking six or seven whole months ago) contained a snarky rejoinder by the postee that he didn't think we were "intellectual enough". Rather than monkeypiling with eighty-six "yeah, so's yer fadder's moustache"-s, followed by twenty "well, he has the right to his opinion" and eight "who asked you"; the guy was ignored and the thread ended. That was as impressive as anything I've seen on MoFi. Though every fibre of my being YEARNS to rail against a love-in, it must be noted that what sets MoFi comfortably apart from most other groupblogs is that we take care of our own, we seek to nurture and we prefer the velvet glove to the open hand slap. We are compassionate curiosity seekers and we seem to be at our best when we are addressing each other directly and discussing issues. I would suggest that some of our BEST threads (and I'm tired, so no links for you; go find them yourself) were well-thought out heartfelt open discussions and that what may be lacking with the influx of hundreds and hundreds of new monkeys is the human angle. We've tried to address that with "show me a picture" "where do you live" "what's your favorite color" posts, but I think maybe we could use an institution OK'd outlet for our outsized social desires. Links are all well and good; I think most of us are at a point where we'd be just as happy starting a thread where we TALK to each other. There's been a lot of pony chatter about a MoTalk; perhaps what we really need is a chatroom. Yes, I'm aware that there was an IRC base, but how about something that could be linked directly from the front page? There's applications that do that, right? And then maybe a sign-in book where Monkeys could set up talktime dates or just say, HEY, I'm available for some chatter. MoFi is a linkfilter and we do that reasonably well. Maybe the proper next step is to start making greater inroads toward becoming more of a virtual community? Just some thoughts.
• I just wanted to say that I find any mention of Godwin's Law to be completely ironic. Having shared an online community with Mike Godwin, no poster, possibly in the history of the internet, is more likely than Godwin himself to provoke situations of such vehemence and vitriol that "his" law must be invoked on a regular basis. Nice guy in RL, but a complete PITA in any posting situation. This is a complete aside, but I am a Baby Monkey , and am hoping the troop will be indulgent. Also, could someone please groom my ticks? Thank you.
• MMMMMM. Nits are for kids.
• I gotta backscratcher for those hard-to-reach areas.
• Welcome to the monkeyhouse, ereshkigal. Have a banana. We've a fine history of verbal grooming around here.
• I'd like to avoid monkeytalk if it's at all possible. Threads where we talk to eachother seem to work well. We even seem to do a fairly good job of not yelling at eachother. Monkeytalk encourages callouts and all the rest. It just seems like a bad idea. I mean sure, we could probably make it work. Why walk into the forest full of rabid grizzly bears though?
• Metafilter: Forest full of rabid grizzly bears Time to update Kimberly's thread, methinks. Thanks, Zemat, for the timely reminder.
• I like stupid and possibly dodgy posts. If you don't like the look of them, don't click on them... Otherwise, this place is sound, and the 'take it outside' attitude is ideal for arguments. Peace, monkeys.
• I like to provoke. We all need provocation from time to time. I find it interesting that real pr0n links are generally enjoyed here, where as other types of voyeurism are generally despised. I would hate to see either kind censured; it all adds to the texture of the Intarweb. Of course, Tracicle has the last word: this is her apery, after all. But as long as a post has enough warning (and better too much than too little), I don't see the problem of posting anything that isn't illegal. I have a different view on threads that exist purely to dump on another member, like one that will remain nameless from a day or two ago. Those, I believe, do not belong on the front page at all. I would welcome a MonkeyTalk, but would prefer personal feuds to stay off the Web.
• Monkeyfilter: [Where] every fibre of my being YEARNS to rail against a love-in I second the Wise Monkey Alnedra. I'm often astounded that a post that I read as being neutral or impasssioned regarding the subject will be taken as aggressively hostile or as a personal attack. I think we've proven the adage that a soft 'ook' turneth away wrath. Bananas for EVERYONE! And TWO bananas for the Monkeys I love best. Sorry, Forks. Baby Monkeys are cute and cuddlesome, but we oldsters have been through a lot together. We need to keep our strength up.
• I'm very glad that forksclovetofu started this thread, because I've been feeling increasingly uncomfortable about the locker-room atmosphere that seems to have developed on MoFi in the past few weeks. It's not the poo-flinging I object to, it's the "guys, check out this really GROSS site!!" FPPs. I've been afraid to mention this until now, because I can guess the sort of response I'd get: "well, if you're easily offended, don't click the fucking link" etc etc. But I'm very encouraged by some of the comments in this thread -- obviously I'm not alone -- and I just want to say to tracicle, please don't be reluctant to delete objectionable FPPs, it's not censorship, it's just good housekeeping.
• I'm with SlightlyFoxed. Whilst I enjoy disgusting links as much as the next peurile young male, I don't think that Monkeyfilter is the right place for it. I think that the best links here tell me about something I didn't know about before, or give me a new perspective on something. I come to Monkeyfilter to get away from the whee-pop stupidity of most of the rest of the net.
• Personally, I think that if people aren't liking the objectionable stuff, that those people should make an effort to post things that are more appropriate and are more interesting than the disgusting links. I know I try to do that, and there are a good number of you who do it as well. But the rest of us should start improving this place through providing better content and through expressing your dislike (in a tactful and nice way) for the FPPs that are offensive, as well as expressing gratitude for posts that are good and that you enjoy.
• first off, may Dizzy rest in peace. i'll miss him. this recent unpleasantness cost us a valuable monkey and i for one am grieving his loss. his posts revealed fun and interesting corners of the web, and his humor was kind and intelligent. i've tried to convey this to him in a direct email, but he's not responding. so, diz, hope this reaches you, and i'll miss you, my friend. that said... i really, REALLY hope that monkeys refrain from using such phrases as, "that's a load of crap!" "what a stupid statement!" and such. i think debating issues is valuable and intellectually stimulating, but just lashing out at opinions is totally useless. yeah, what it comes down to is, respect each other. i think most of us do. thanks for the thread, forks. i've been surprised at how upset i've been the past week or so over what's been going on with mofi. i think of mofi as a friendly, welcoming, comfy living room, with assorted monkeys sitting about chatting. suddenly there was poo on the floor and walls and creepy dark corners filled with expletives and screams. it smelled bad. but this thread has pulled open the drapes once more, and folks are returning to the comfy sofas. for that, i thank you. oh, and i love you all.
• I have my real name in my profile. I suggest monkeys do the same, because it makes people accountable for what they say. I also have two suggestions: - Please don't gang up on folks who are in the minority when it comes to opinion on specific topics - If something offends you or you think it's in bad taste, please say so without being rude, snarky or personally attacking someone I'm probably among the offenders for inappropriate FPP for my one slip-up, posting the CKY video where a guy smears feces on his friend as a joke. Yet I want to make it clear that more than a few posts -- and comments -- on MoFi have offended me. My solution? I ignore those posts. What's offensive to you may not be offensive to someone else. Where some people think a scatological prank is offensive, I think a FPP glorifying gay bath houses without any mention of the AIDS virus is offensive. I find it offensive when one of my FPP on separation of church and state turns into a Catholic-bashing thread. I also find multiple FPP on Michael Moore to be tiresome. I have yet to raise a complaint about any of those things because the bottom line is this is a community and not everyone will see eye-to-eye. The least we can do is show each other respect.
• I unfortunately tend to dip in and out of MoFi for various reasons and so haven't been as aware of the Farkian Drift -- although I have noticed that there seem to be more and more FPPs, and that I was sifting through them to find ones I wanted to read. As far as MetaMonkey goes, I'm strongly against it. One look at MeFi explains why: open a forum for bitching and that's exactly what will happen, instead of dealing with and containing it in the threads. Unless we figure out a way to handle the flare ups and get through them, Tracicle's going to end up being a MonkeyFirefighter and pouring water here, killing a thread there. The restraint that forksclovetofu recalls gets harder and harder as we get a larger and, presumably, more diverse membership. The tempting thing about forums like these is to not care so much about what you say because it's so easy to drop some words and bolt out of the thread. (I'm just as guilty as anyone of popping into a thread, trying to come up with a clever remark and then popping out.) niccolo's movie-industry standard is a great one. And finally (I see some of you in the back starting to yawn), let's not go the Meta-Mo way because once you start staring at your navel all you see is the lint. The great thing about MoFi (even to me, one who never feels really comfortable as part of a Group) has been the stumbling, tumbling forward momentum we've found as we grow as a group and a community. There will be problems. But lets focus on making the site better, which, as others have said better than I comes down to good FPPs and thoughtful/silly comments. /saying too much
• Dizzy left?!? Holy multiple punctuation, Batman! When did this happen?
• Check out tracy's blog, BBF.
• It's over at tracicle's blog, Blaise. Second post down, mid-way through the comments. I am baffled. I just really wish he'd said goodbye, at least. Hmmmm.
• *starts feud with quidnunc for getting there before me*
• yeah i'm pretty bummed about diz, flashboy. he was a good fellow. emailed me several times just to blow kisses. i'll miss him.
• Should go without saying that few of us come here to be grossed out, insulted, or to have our feelings bruised, opinions rejected, or ideas denigrated. And when such miserable things surface, as when an old and valued friend leaves, we all react to it, even when we're mute to express the full nature of that reaction. To me, anyhow, it's becoming more obvious that whatever hurts my brother or my sister monkey, hurts me. Focusing further on monkeyfilter -- thinking we have at least class act among us: I have studied with growing admiration one particular monkey among us, whose unfailing warmth and geniality, sensitivity, sanity, and quick wit coupled with a penetrating social awareness have consistently impressed me. Time after time, I've noticed him anticipate and defuse or deflect potential trouble in a thread. For that alone I admire the hell out of him. Anyhow, want to salute our many-avatared marvel, pete_best, for an unflagging and effortless demonstration of so many of the skills that make this community, or indeed any community, work. We're damn lucky to have you, pete.
• I joined Mofi because I found the link on mefi, and I thought this would the place to be. Monkeys seemed so much more friendlier and accepting of others, than the people on mefi. I love reading the posts on mefi and mofi, but I found the comments on mofi more to my liking than on mefi. Less fighting and poo flinging. The past couple of weeks the poo flinging has turned me off. I have yet to post any links, for fear of poo flinging. I am a Baby Monkey, hell I am a baby internet user all around. I didn't get online until 2 years ago, a late starter. I guess what I am trying to say is, lets all play nice together. Respect to Monkeybashi. Please don't hurt any baby monkeys. Take personal conflicts outside by e-mail sounds like a fantastic idea to me. I see no need to call someone out in a public forum. Thanks for letting this little baby monkey say her piece.
• *starts feud with quidnunc for getting there before me* Ma! Pa! We be a-feudin' with them thar flashboys agin'! Git me mah feudin' pants!
• Plus, I second beeswacky that pete_best is, indeed, the a-one dude; furthermore while the collective love tap is screwed on-wise indulge me to forward some quanta of "Mad Props" in the directions of mighty SideDish and Al"ned"ra for similar services to the cause, plus almost every one of youse freaktastic discombobulatrixes what I is left out.
• Everyone has pretty much said what needs to be said, but I feel like this little place is one of my homes on the intarweb so I thought I'd at least say something. The thing that surprised me most about the Recent Unpleasantness is that it involved mostly older members. I'm not sure why that it is, but it made me sad. From the earliest days I've been a "if you don't like, ignore it!" kind of person, but dear god that's not possible if everyone isn't exercising a bit of restraint. 1)Ideally this is about cool stuff, and no so much about ego so if someone is being a little pisher, ignore it and move on. A good rule of thumb that everyone here knows is attack arguments not people. It's worked well many times here. 2)I ignored the Day of Pee and I even ignored Lesbian Enemas, but the creepy poo-eating stuff was kind of my last straw. Not because it was any worse, but because it continued the trend. It made me think: dear sweet baby jesus I hope and pray that members choose not to turn this into a Porn Hole. I don't like seeing these links every day, it sets an unfortunate tone, and I hope enough people agree with me that they are scaled way back. I feel like the front page is a minefield these days. At the very, absolute, minimal least, I hope people start labeling all NSFW posts, well, NSFW whether it's obvious or not. I agree with this: Personally, I think that if people aren't liking the objectionable stuff, that those people should make an effort to post things that are more appropriate and are more interesting than the disgusting links. And that's exactly what I did yesterday. I urge every member to post something interesting at least once a week. [insert gratuitous love-in-banana-chewing-group-hug here] Mwaaah!
• Well, for one, I'm not too thrilled about the NSFW posts. I mean if I just want nudity there's fark and if I want gross stuff there's stileproject. So the NSFW posts here are kind of redundant. Secondly, I'm amazed at how often people get into flamewars on the internet. I post here, slashdot, fark, my blog and a couple other sites regularly (if not frequently) and never get into a flamewar. In the rare instances were someone says something that either pisses me off or where I can tell teh other person is pissed off, I switch into teacher/psychiatrist mode and it almost always works. I find that if you stop and remember that this is another person you are dealing with, and try to honestly understand where they are coming from and make a solid attempt to engage the argument in a solid non-confrontational way, you can get your point accross without getting into an argument. So try to understand what teh other perosn is saying, don't call them names, if you are angry wait before ou hit "post new comment." I get angry emails from my students all the time and they just piss me off to no end, but I know I can't respond in the same tone. I'm the adult (lke it or not) and need to take the higher ground. So let's all just chill out. And I'll kick your ass if you disagree!
• Pretty much what most everybody said. Yeah, I don't have a problem with Monkeybashi exerting more influence here, though we should be capable of self-policing. We're grown-ups, so we should be able to deal with this ourselves without too much running to Mom -- she's a very busy woman. I like the silent-treatment idea. You don't like it? Don't respond. You think it should be removed? Quietly make a case with tracicle. And I agree with the "post the good stuff yourself" calls too, though I must admit that I've contributed next to zero on the front page. Every cool link I find is ooooold or newsfilter, which shows you how lacking my net skills are. I don't know any of the more obscure corners of the intarweb. That's why I never FPP anything I find at MeFi or /. or SA or k5 or boingboing: I fear embarrassment. I'd rather just comment. So kudos to forks for rule #3. I love it here. I love you all, and getting to know you is quite a thing.
• The one thing I'm quite uncomfortable with is the idea of taking disagreements to email. Might this not come off as threatening and unpleasant.
• The one thing I'm quite uncomfortable with is the idea of taking disagreements to email. Might this not come off as threatening and unpleasant. That was certainly true in the cat pee thread. I honestly think that self-restraint is the answer. Either that or we construct a virtual thunderdome. Or, oh! I know! We could hold a virtual dance off. "You got SERVED!!"
• I agree that dng has a point - while email is often the way to go, if something degenerates into a private flamewar over email, it's unrealistic to expect that the results won't spill over into the main site. The result is still snarking, except nobody else knows what it's about - and so they in turn might react to what appears to be unprovoked aggression, and so on, and so on... But, what everybody else said. Most of all, what's impressed me about MoFi is that when people cross the line, start shouting at one another (all of which it's unreasonable not to expect on an interweb forum), there's almost always an apology, and public making-up, not far behind. More than anything, that's the way to keep things nice, peaceful and fun, whilst still retaining the true nature of the site - that people have different tastes, and that they can enjoy the totally serious and the completely trivial at the same time.
• where's sullivan? i'd be interested in his take on this.
• Is tracicle Lord Buddha?
• Well, of course Monkeybashi = Buddhabashi, dng.
• What Do You Reap?
• Sometimes, when the words come right, an affirming flame".
• I am reluctant to post this, but as I've been emailed privately about the Dizzy situation more than once, I guess it would be best to put it all out there. If you read the cat pee post, which has since been deleted, you've got all of it. Dizzy was offended at someone's anecdote about peeing on his cat, and responded with a very strong comment. I added my own comments, and things escalated very quickly. I was baffled. Every subsequent comment I wrote to that thread was re-written a half dozen times, and each time, I was restraining myself more and more. I thought I was being diplomatic. I started getting some very hostile e-mails from him (I found out later I wasn't the only recipient of his emails). He wasn't really restraining himself in the thread, but his e-mails were... something else. I was no longer feeling like this was a disagreement that he was blowing out of proportion. I started feeling uncomfortable. At that point I was done. It was clear that Dizzy had things going on with him that I didn't understand, for whatever reason, and I was not going to incite him any more. Dizzy kept posting, even as everyone else walked away. That was how it was left about two weeks ago, with Dizzy having the last 10 comments in that thread. I found the whole thing regrettable, and I was not pleased I contributed to it. But I thought it was over, and I certainly didn't want to think about it anymore. When I got back from lunch yesterday, there were two new e-mails from Dizzy waiting for me. Apparently it wasn't over. In it, he accuses me and Squidranch of being the same person. (So that's total of 5 e-mails from Dizzy, all unsolicited, none of which I responded to.) At this point I seriously regretted being on the internet at all, ever. I later found out he had been revisiting other threads, posting comments about this, and also in Tracy's blog. I skimmed a few, and decide I didn't want to read them. It was at this point that Tracy deleted the cat pee thread completely. Dizzy subsequently announced he was leaving. That is my part of the story. I understand he was one of the oldest members, many of you cared for him, and apparently he contributed a great deal to this site. I regret I wasn't here for any of that, and that my only interaction with him was as I described above. I'm sorry things happened this way, I'm sorry Dizzy felt like he had to leave. But I don't believe I've contributed anything to him feeling unwelcome here. I've actively avoided interacting with him ever since the cat pee thread.
• i think it was very kind of daniel to explain all that to us. sounds like a difficult situation for all concerned. hope no one ended up too bruised or battered. thanks to monkeybashi for kind guidance. banana to daniel. no, wait, a banana split!
• Daniel: It takes a decent human being to post that and I think it's important to acknowledge that. I think it's probably not wise on my part to rehash everything so I'll just say that Dizzy was just as much part of the nastiness as others involved--and I say that as someone who agreed with his original point in that thread, with all the fondness in the world and hope that he'll rise above the crud and come back.
• I feel better for having read all of this, just, you know, getting things out in the air kinda deal. Building rapport with the people sort of thing. I don't mind a majority of NSFW posts, but the scat posts irritated me. I'd been able to pass by a dozen or so posts featuring very old links without once commenting within, "The 90's called, they want their Cool Web Page of the Day Back". And that was hard, but I did it, and I'm proud that I did it. I moved on. I bopped through the Day of Urine in full good cheer, and left a small cautionary note in another post, and then the icelander post came. Fearing a full blown "Tour-de-Excretions", I did what any rational person would do -- I flamed. True enough, the magic acronym "NSFW" was present, but I submit that there's a world of difference between just "NSFW" and real live scat flinging. And then, when someone else apparently "sensed a theme coming on", and made another scat post, I flamed yet again. I flamed not because I hated, oh no. Not because of resentment, or anger, but because I care. I care about monkeyfilter, and I care enough to not see that we turn into "little ogrish" or "little scatmuncher" or whatever. Not having it. No way. Mad props to forksy and kimberly and tracicle and to Dizzy as well -- I'll see you at the crossroads, brother.
• I was pondering MoFi last night. I discovered, after deep thought, that I really liked being here, and that despite my many disagreements with most of you, I love you all. MoFi is one of the first places I visit in the morning, and I frequent it all day, and I try and check it every couple of hours at night as well. That either means I'm obsessed or I really like hanging out here. I believe it's the latter, and it's due to you all. Thanks for making this monkey feel like he belongs. You rock. Every single one of you. *Bananas for everyone*
• where's sullivan? i'd be interested in his take on this. Yes, I have (which I know I would) for my Curious George about f8xmulder and trolls. Then everyone gangs up again on f8xmulder. Here's the thing about opinions. They must be based on facts. Example: Ted Williams is the greatest New York Yankee of all time. Monkey 1:But Ted williams never played for the Yankees Ted Williams was a better Yankee than Mickey Mantle. Monkey 2:We just told you that Williams never played for the Yankees. This link proves that Williams was the greatest Yankee. *** Now if I actually posted something like that I expect a bunch of monkeys to point that I'm a dumbass. There's some smart people in this group. I think if a member continues to argue about stuff he or she either doesn't have facts to back up their argument than poo will get thrown at them. It's like running into an annoying person in a bar that thinks he knows everything. It gets old real fast.
• That's not entirely correct. Opinions are based on interpretations of facts. Cos I'm having trouble extending your example, I'll make one of my own. Imagine the country of Mondolobia has a deficit of forty-five gajillion bananas in 2003, and a deficit of forty gajillion in 2004. One person might say "That's an improvement on last year! Things are looking up!" whilst another might say "That's still an enormous deficit in the budget! Things are looking bleak!" Whilst the two opinions oppose each other, each is as valid as the other.
• I'm talking about someone defending president Bush posting a letter that has in the Washington Times by a man who said he served in the National Guard with him when this same man was serving in the Guard in Pennsylvania. The letter was a form letter that was sent out to several newspapers. This same person refused to believe that the letter was bogus. That is not opinion. That's a disconnect from reality.
• sullivan, what i do with my (extreeeeeme right-wing TALK ABOUT TOTAL DISCONNECT FROM REALITY) brother when we discuss matters like that bogus letter is send him the link from snopes explaining such things. it's a lot less frustrating than getting into big arguments. once he sees it on snopes with the references to back up the research, sometimes that helps. *sometimes.* sigh.
• (oh, and an aside that means no disrespect: nope, opinions aren't always based on fact. look at the whole holocaust-denial controversy....)
• Monkeyfilter: Get me mah fuedin' pants!
• On preview: Kimberly: OK......Ok, so we got served. But now, IT'S ON!!! lkc: Here. Thanks! I feel much better now. Let me know if you need to let off some!
• (oh, and an aside that means no disrespect: nope, opinions aren't always based on fact. look at the whole holocaust-denial controversy....) Those are exactly the kind of people I'm talking about. I think denying the holocaust is dangerous. Those that do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it
• Sullivan: Don't make me dance at you.
• Okay I've read the thread straight through now I'm confused. Sullivan, apologies, but I don't see what point you're trying to make or how it connects with Forks' original post. I don't mean to be rude. Administrator, please hope me.
• Okay, as of 5:35 cst, we have nearly squeezed all of yesterday's posts off the front page. There are only three July 1 FPPs at the bottom (well, four, once the dp is removed). Look at that! Call for posts, and there they are. 'Nanners all around! Wooha!
• For what it's worth, Sully, I was wrong about the Bush AWOL story.
• We're monkeys of the Round Table, we fling whene'er we're able...
• For what it's worth, Sully, I was wrong about the Bush AWOL story. This is one reason we like him. Another is that F8x puts up with opinions that put his teeth on edge daily here and generally argues his end calmly and thoughtfully. Which is why he gets cut some slack when something (very) occasionally drives him over the edge.
• I admire f8x very much; he has an ideal, is willing to argue gracefully in favor of that ideal, and will listen and respond intelligently to conflicting ideas. If he's a bit stuck on his own perception, well, who isn't? Plus, being a person of his ideals isn't easy in this day and age. I appreciate his open-mindedness and willingness to explain the nuances of his ideals. Thanks, f8x! Also, I have to apologize for a slight faux pas. I was aggrivated by one of the posts in the "dirty days", and instead of taking the high road and not saying anything, or taking the middle road and explaining my view point, I took the "shame on you!" road. I must have wasted an hour trying to respond after that, but decided that I could only compound what I'd started. Part was disbelief, as in "There must must be a purpose to this post, please let me know what it is", and part was "screw you, sick asshole, for doing that". I've never been a part of an online community before, though I've lurked for more than 2 years. I never foresaw what might happen with that one post. I was disguisted, shamed, and extremely offended with just a few words. You see, I'd been tricked like that before, and wound up looking at a pic of a dog... well, let's just say it wasn't good. As an emphatic lover of animals, and a 10 + hour a week volunteer, things like that push me over the edge. My bad, however, for falling for it. The poster in question had a statement to make, and I took it the wrong way. I've definitely learned from that experience. On to another topic. Young monkeys should not be given the equal status old monkeys are given. DNG, F8x, BlueHorse, Kimberly, certainsome1, SideDish, (so many to list!)et. al., are very much more important members of this community than I am. I appreciate the open mind towards the new monkeys, but understand that it will take effort on my part to be able to be compared (favorably) to the likes of, say, BBF.
• minda25, while I can certainly see where you're coming from on the young/old monkey issue, I don't agree. Length of tenure is not the indicator of someone's community standing. I have to deal with that mentality all the time in my real life community. What matters is the manner in which someone or some monkey conducts themselves. If a brand new monkey came in and knocked my socks off with his/her thoughtful posts and quality rhetoric, they are aces in my book. On the other hand, us older, supposedly wiser monkeys are always capable of a flame out of epic proportions. In other news, I will miss Dizzy's posts, but I think he was out of line. Way back in the early days I called Dizzy out for the quality of his posts and we had an amicable exchange. I think there is something deeper happening and I hope that he is okay, but until he returns to the Dizzy of old, I don't think it's a bad idea for him not to be here.
• Young monkeys should not be given the equal status old monkeys are given. DNG, F8x, BlueHorse, Kimberly, certainsome1, SideDish, (so many to list!)et. al., are very much more important members of this community than I am. Thanks for the kind words, but I don't think I agree with this. Quantity of posts and comments is no indicator of quality (i'm living proof of that...), and certainly shouldn't grant me, or anyone else, privileges or authority or anything else, just because I've been around longer than you, or said more than you, or whatever. I think both forks and IgnorantSlut have it right. Each post, and each comment, should be judged on its own merits, not the reputation of the user. On the other hand, us older, supposedly wiser monkeys are always capable of a flame out of epic proportions. I'm planning on spending two months freaking out and trolling every thread on here, before posting 500 links to goatse on the front page.
• Oh, yes! I'll pop the popcorn for that one!
• You've both missed the point: "I appreciate the open mind towards the new monkeys, but understand that it will take effort on my part to be able to be compared (favorably) to the likes of, say, BBF My fault - I wasn't articulating well last night. So basically, yeah, I agree with you guys.
• minda25: I think it was the earlier part of your comment ("Young monkeys should not be given the equal status old monkeys are given.") that was confusing, but yes, it's the effort a monkey puts in and not the amount of time.
• This is a double post... (Its quite surprising how similar that thread is - worries about to much porn and too much snarking, then Dizzy leaves...)
• Weren't you all saying not so long ago that it was almost "too nice" here?
• I admire f8x very much; he has an ideal, is willing to argue gracefully in favor of that ideal, and will listen and respond intelligently to conflicting ideas. Amen. I think there is something deeper happening and I hope that he is okay, but until he returns to the Dizzy of old, I don't think it's a bad idea for him not to be here. Amen to that too. But I take hope from quonsar's occasional flameouts and temporary bannings on MeFi, and hope that Diz returns with new jokes and a thicker skin. Now, pass the popcorn, IgnorantSlut! *waits for goatse*
• Goatse
• Goatse tribute page (first page SFW, links not.)