July 01, 2004

• This is brilliant. I signed up on the "Do Not Call" registry, but every blue moon or so somebody sneaks through. Next time I'll be ready. Thank you mare!
• Excellent. As someone who, in a moment of desperation, worked on a job cold-calling targeted people, I can attest to the evils of the logic used by telemarketer-types to twist a conversation around. This twists it back. It should also greatly improve your word-fu in everyday conversation, if you love circular rhetoric and ending a conversation by cutting off every possible branch of discussion before it develops.
• That is an object of beauty. It would almost be worth taking myself off the Do Not Call list just to use it, but we don't really get a lot of telemarketers here. cephalophile, I worked in telesales for two weeks while at university. I stayed for two weeks and left because the first two weeks were "training" and I got wages, but after training was over you switched to commission. I am a really, really bad salesperson. I left as a pre-emptive move before they could fire me. :)
• Sorry. You know what though. That's what I did for a year. Helped pay for college. Just hang up. Real people on the other side of the phone, who if you met them in public you might quite like. They aren't deliberately screwing with you. Why not return the favor? Oh no, they interrupted supper? Tell them to take you off the list, and then hang up. Don't like them being able to call you at all? Change the laws. The people who do the actual calling have zero power.
• Sorry, Pez, but thats not true either. They took the job, they know who they are and what they are doing. To say they have zero power for being in a job that they willingly took is making the perpetrators the victim. Take a job bothering strangers? You deserve to get a piece of their mind. I have known nice people and horrible people both who have done the jobs, and the ones who really stuck it liked it because they liked bothering people. Still, it is better than using prisoners as telemarketers. Dont even get me started on that.
• Still, it is better than using prisoners as telemarketers. Dont even get me started on that. Does that happen?
• Yes. here,here,here,and so on... I know those arent the greatest links, but that is just a cursory googling and has a few exceptional stories, albeit old. Sorry I am at work and dont have too much extra time. Prison is an industry in the U.S. and something that bears looking into. Beyond just prison labor, the industry makes jobs, government contracts, convicted felons lose their voting rights, not to mention the systems of corruption and abuse that are utterly rampant. Combine that with the erosion of civil liberties from the Patriot Act and its faux-sunset clause... Again, I said dont get me started. Im sure a couple others around here can back this up.
• Excellent script. While I understand that the TMs are just "doing their job," many (most?) of them know that their actions are quite annoying and considered "hard selling." Perhaps the scripting might be a bit more "considerate" than a simple hang-up, or a "screw you" + hang-up.
• Pez: Glad you made it through college. The ends justify the means seems to be your position. You suggest to change the laws, well the US laws have been changed and guess what? Non profit orgs: exempt. Political: exempt. Companies pretend to be taking surveys, they do not identify themselves: can't catch. Net result: Bullshit.
• tracicle, I'd like to say I left my job in the industry for more principled reasons, but, much like you, I just sucked as a salesperson. I also did the walk-out, went to the new James Bond movie (Tomorrow Never Dies) in my full suit at 11:00 in the morning. People thought I was going in-character. This idea about prison-labour is a whole other topic, but fascinating none the less. Thanks for the links, lkc, but if you didn't want to get started on the topic, it was probably the wrong thing to do :)
• Pez: if a telemarketer calls, the time I spend answering the phone does not magically transform into their time. If your company wants to sell to me, they have to jump through my hoops. Or just don't call. I, personally, don't feel it should be necessary to sign up on a DNC list just to avoid telemarketer calls. If I want calls, I'll opt in.
• Steveno, I don't think the result is bullshit. I used to get about 5 calls a day. Now I get between one and two calls a week. I think the Do Not Call List is one of the most marvellous pieces of legislation ever. :) Also: Sorry Pez, but I agree with lkc.
• Pez, the best most exagerated analogy I can think of is this: Telemarketers are like soldiers. They probably joined because they had no other option, they hurt people because that's their job and they follow orders, and they probably realize what they are doing to other humans is mostly unjustified. Still they don't deserve any respect from those they hurt.
• And by those they hurt I mean enemy combatants and civilian casualties. Not the rest. Don't assume I have no respect for soldiers or telemarketers in general.
• I'm going to go with Pez and agree with his point about telemarketers probably being good people and so forth... but hey, if you call me with a script ready, then it's completely fair game for me to respond with a script. Yes, it's more polite to say "no thank you" and hang up, and yes, you'll be the bigger person for doing so. But there gets to be a point where frustration takes hold, and the only way to fight it is to, well, fight back. Also, if you confuse and piss off enough telemarketers, then you erode their ability to make sales, which erodes the companies ability to be profitable off of telemarketing. And, it's fun(ny).
• I didn't have to go with the DNC Registry. Tips for avoiding telemarketing calls: 1. Get an unlisted number. The 65 cents a month charge I pay is worth it. Should absolutely be used in conjunction with tip #2. 2. Tell the phone company, in no uncertain terms, to put you on their list of phone numbers not to sell. They will try to talk you out of it, but demand that they do it. The phone company was the source of nearly all of the telemarketing calls I received (!!!). 3. Do not automatically hang up, it will only get you more calls. I know it's annoying to bother with talking to the telemarketer, but interrupt their sales pitch and ask that all information associated with the call, including all names and phone numbers, be removed from all databases they have control over, or that the phone number and/or name(s) in question be removed from their call list. It's better to spell out exactly what you expect, to avoid confusion on the telemarketing company's part (i.e. the telemarketing company is probably stupid, and you don't want them to screw it up). My personal story: I've done telemarketing. Both kinds. I did the catalog thing where people called me (imagine that!) to place orders, and I worked there for over a year. Then I worked at an outbound call center, trying to entice people to buy magazines they absolutely didn't want. I quit after the first hour because I couldn't stand feeling like an utter sleazeball. I've never felt as free as I did when I walked out of that place. Some people may feel no guilt or remorse about trying to shove worthless crap on people who don't want it, but that doesn't change the fact that next to no one wants what they're selling, and those who do buy from cold call telemarketers are probably buying because they're being subjected to the equilavent of psychological warfare.
• I'm not actually done with college yet. Also, I didn't/don't like bothering people. Some of the things we had were genuinely good deals. I don't know that telemarketing is unjustified. Psychological warfare? Hang up. Yeesh. It just kinda weirds me out how angry everyone gets about telemarketing. It's not like it's difficult to get rid of 'em. Does everyone get this angry when the little kids come around selling subscriptions to your local paper? How about those coupon books that they sell door to door? I do see how it could be annoying to get called, and I've had it happen. You have all the power though. If telemarketers are soldiers, then they're soldiers who've lost their weapons somewhere along the way and are really hungry. Nobody makes you feed them. Slam the metaphorical door in their faces and go about your supper.
• Didn't Seinfeld do this same thing but in about 2 sentences (I'm busy right now, give me your home number & I'll call you back etc)?
• I have to agree with the currently-unpopular Pez on this. The area I used to live has tons of call-centres for a huge range of things (those nice bland Canadian accents combined with huge unemployment = commercial opportunity!) and so know lots of people that had little or no choice aabout doing "Telesales". I tend to think of this as verbal spam: if it stopped being profitable, it would stop happening. So, use the DNC, use the (very funny) script if you are at that level of frustration and have the time (more polite that "Fuck you" really); otherwise interrupt, say "No" and hang-up. So I guess: what Ian and Peoplefilter said.
• The more aggressive (and would like some cash) monkeys could try this script from Junkbusters. I had the chance to go home early yesterday, and I got 3 unsolicited marketing calls in 2 hours. Normally I'm home later, and miss most of them. Me, I have some sympathy for the callers, so I try to keep it polite.
• got a cell phone. got rid of the land line. and i absolutely, flat-out refuse to give my cell number to anyone who doesn't really need it. (if they insist on an actual number, i give them my office number - i'm never there at 8 pm, so they can call all they want, and i also get to be all indignant and tell them to stop calling the office if they do call while i'm there.) no telemarketer calls any more. i've seen this script before, it was funny but i never tried it. had a couple friends who worked as telemarketers for a while, they both thought it was damn funny to "stroke" callers after they quit, knowing they were working on commission - they would play along, then cancel at the very end prior to confirming anything - after the supervisor has come to confirm the sale - just to mess with the poor sap who called them. now that's comedy. (mean-spirited though it may have been - no offense there, pez)
• frogs, what deal are you on? Would you be interested to know that you can SAVE over 30% on your monthly bill by switching to the quidnunc network? THAT'S RIGHT!!! JUST GIVE ME YOUR NUMBER AND I'LL CALL YOU RIGHT NOW WITH THIS AND OTHER INCREDIBLE OFFERS!!!!!
• I'm with ya, Pez. This problem really goes to the heart of what is so paralyzing about American power, in my eyes -- we never get to address those with the power. Tom Mabe struck a blow for us, when he found a hotel hosting a convention of telemarketer executives -- then proceeded to call them at 3:00 AM on behalf of the "Telemarketers with Insomnia" foundation. Our ravaged economy means that fulfilling, life-affirming jobs that provide us with self-actualization and help us to hone our most profound interests are rare. The transition to a "service economy" means lots of us have to take jobs we don't particularly like, and take abuse for decisions on which we had no input whatsoever. (Yes, I speak from experience as a former Borders employee.) So if you're mad at the telemarketers, fine. But make sure you're mad at the right ones.
• I will also stick up for the callers. I worked a summer in a market research call centre (I am a terrible salesperson, but I like surveys), and it's a lot of average people just trying to pay the bills. Though I have heard about really silly calls - my fiance kept being asked whether he would like to have all his windows replaced and served as a showhouse. He kept saying that he was a tenant (in a college residence), but they kept calling back. So the last time they called, he said "I'm afraid you can't replace the windows, some of them are medieval." (Not that his house is medieval, but the other part of his college is). They kept insisting, "No, we can still replace them, that's no problem". Finally he had to say that he lived in a Cambridge college, the windows were protected as historical, and no, he was not allowed to turn it into a showhome. So the person got annoyed at him for wasting their time. I always try to be nice and just say I'm not interested. If it's a survey, try taking it - sometimes they are interesting. Lie if you want to, they don't care - unless it's non-profit research, of course. Lying to social and medical researchers is evil - it ruins their data, and they are just trying to help people. (I also did interviews for epidemiological research - those are very interesting).
• I am on the DNC list, but I still get quite a few calls. The worst part for me is the auto-dialer calls. Firstly, it seems that 80% of the time they do not have enough people staffed to handle the autodialer results. So I pick up and there is nothing. The same number will call 5 or 10 times over a few days, until finally someone is available on *their* end. Secondly, I have a tough last name. So, they start reading their script, having had zero prep time, and inevitably run into the brick wall of correctly guessing the pronunciation. This gives me a break in the verbal patter to so "no" and hang up. One of the few things I miss about Minnesota, where I lived a few years ago, it that it is one of the few states where machine-calls are illegal. The ones where an answering machine calls you. Absolutely infuriating.
• [This comment replaces the unbelievably vitrolic, hate-filled, screen-melting invective launched against the telemarketing industry and all persons associated with it. Thank you, drive through.]
• I could swear there was a link on the blue quite a while back that suggested that you just ask the telemarketer to "hold on for a sec" and then just leave the phone somewhere until the telemarketer eventually hangs up. It eats up a lot of time, and you don't have to waste your energy on talking in circles. "Slam the metaphorical door in their faces and go about your supper." I'm sorry, Pez, but I had to break away from my supper in order to answer this unwanted call. That's not acceptable. One Sunday morning when I was a sophomore in college, I was woken up from my badly hungover state by a telemarketer trying to sell me a subscription to the some newspaper. Not being able to even speak at that point, I just hung up the phone. About thirty seconds later, the phone rang again and when I answered, that same telemarketer yelled "You don't have to be such a bitch" or something to that effect and then hung up. WTF? Now that's just WRONG. I wasn't rude. I didn't say anything, I just hung up the phone. I don't deserve that kind of abuse just because that telemarketer hates her job.
• After FOUR Neilsen ratings calls, I answered to tell them to remove me and the telemarketer spent the vast majority of their almost 15 seconds with me explaining that "this isn't a sales call". Yeah, and this isn't me jamming my foot up your ass to kick out your molars, cuntface. *click* calm blue ocean . . calm blue ocean . . calm blue ocean . .
• But the Nielsen calls are the best - they send you $10 without you ever filling out their stupid booklets. Maybe you can scoff at $10 for doing nothing, but I can't. :)
• If they sent me $10 without calling me, and I didn't have to do anything else - I guess that'd be okay. Actually, it's more likely that I'd fill out the booklet with only the most bizarre viewing habits and programs.
• For the record, I joke with the surveys and the people who call me. I am generally not abusive, I like to think I am more clever than that. At one point I got a few calls regarding which southern california newspapers I read. I told them I couldnt read (I can't), but took the survey anyway. I had to give a yes or no question on which of (well over 100) periodicals I read. Deadpan, dead serious. Utterly full of shit. I tell them my hobbies are collecting gum and jerking off to car racing magazines, I have a degree in haterade, and I sell my blood for a living. I dont berate or twist the people, but ill be damned if Im not going to waste their time and entertain myself. Really, its better than watching T.V., and really gets your creative juices flowing. There have been a couple times where I have had a party with people over who are, shall we say, drunk, and passing around the phone for an amazing new offer to switch to sprint, or whoever. If you argue with them long enough you can get all sorts of premiums. But also, like I said I have known some very nice people who did it and couldnt hack it, and I knew one woman who was just really mean, and worked collections, and loved it because she could call people at 8am and hassle them. (i realize there is a difference between surveys, marketing, and collections, but they are all unsolicited calls).
• I heard an awesome story about a telemarketer on NPR's (I think) This American Life... maybe a year ago. He describes, among other things, calling a number and reaching his own answering machine. Anyone know what I'm talking about? Anyone? I'm too lazy to say anything else or find a link, though, because I'm going to bed now. /did surveys for the university. i didn't have to sell anything, but it still fucking sucked. worst job ever. i quit and decided to sell, *ahem*, grass instead, knowing that the risk of possible jail time would be an improvement over sitting in a box, pissing people off all day.
• Yeah, Wedge, I heard that show too, but I'll be damned if I can remember the show's theme. It may have been the show they did on work (obvious guess), but I can't remember the air date exactly.
• Wedge I heard it too - the theme was something like "starting over after a long time doing shit jobs" or something like that. I remember the sound of that answering machine and his description of the 2 second sigh that followed - it was a break before the next call.