December 14, 2003

Saddam believed to have been captured: They found him in Tikrit, his hometown. They seem to be doing DNA tests to make sure it's him and not one of his doppelgangers. The resulting circus should be interesting. Will he get tried by the UN, or will we go it alone again? (via Fox)
posted by Pez 20 years ago
  • Hopefully he's put on trial at The Hague. (I want to know how America has Saddam's - and his sons - dna. Where'd they get that?)
  • According to this, Tony Blair said that he would be tried in Iraq, by an Iraqi court. I'm surprised that they would dare leave him in Iraq for now, because of the incredible security risk - he would be a target of both Saddam Loyalists - who'd want to free him - and anybody who detests the man - which is probably mostly everyone - who surely would try to kill him.
  • you think that them having his DNA is scary? They also know what scars he has on his body. That was one brave intelligence agent that collected that information.
  • dng Seems from these (old) articles that the mitochondrial dna is the key. Via Foxnews on 4/13/2003 ...U.S. officials said they had captured Watban Ibrahim Hasan, a half brother of Saddam. Medical authorities said Watban's capture could lead to easier identification of any possible remains of Saddam because scientists can compare their mitochondrial DNA, which is only passed down from mothers to children. A U.S. government official who asked not to be identified by name said later that Watban and Saddam shared a mother but had different fathers. From USA Today on 4/8/2003 Men descended from Saddam's grandfather would have similar markers along the Y chromosome. Relatives on his mother's side would have similar patterns of mitochondrial DNA, which is contained outside the cell nucleus and is inherited only from the mother. Let's hope that in the absence of a despot their rich, storied, and diverse culture can avoid This.
  • No way in hell the admin will allow him to be tried in The Hague. None. I strongly doubt that they'll really allow him to appear in-person in a full and fair trial in Iraq. The occupation government will put on a show trial with Hussein in absentia. Hussein will be moved to an undisclosed location and debriefed from now till, say, oh, I don't know, after November.
  • I'll get enthusiastic when I see what kind of effect this will have on the deteriorating situation in Iraq. The Iraqis hate Hussein and I'm sure they are glad that he's been captured, but that doesn't mean they hate us (i.e. the US) any less. Does this mean democracy in Iraq? Will peace now come to Iraq? Only time will tell. Stay tuned.....
  • Salam Pax on Saddam Hussein's capture. (2 minute RealAudio Link, I'm afraid)
  • Frankly, I'm surprised they left him alive at all. He undoubtedly has some... er... "sensitive" information regarding certain arrangements he may have made with the U.S. in the past. If they keep him in Iraq he could be assasinated, which would take care of the problem without the Bushies getting their hands dirty, or at best the world would get a scripted show trial. No way in Hell that this administration would even consider sending him to Hague for a moment.
  • Finally some good news. And just in time to have him gift-wrapped for Christmas. But like pyrrthon1, I wonder how much effect this will have on the insurgensents. Saddam loyalists will probably be demoralized, but I bet the religious militants will spin this as God's punishment on secularism.
  • I don't think that capturing Saddam actually changes anything other than creating more stable numbers for Bush as we head into an election year. Just when Dean was gaining some national momentum too. Interesting.
  • Oh boy, I bet the reunion between these two is going to be awkward.
  • homunculus, I was just thinking that whatever the outcome of his (US/coalition-run) trial, he'd probably end up under cushy house arrest somewhere on the basis that he's been a puppet for the US government in the past. Either that or executed. Boy, tough choice.
  • Hague is a joke. I have read of some people getting less then ten years for murder and rape. Saddam needs to be put on trial by his own people for the sake of closure. I think the debriefing will be interesting. What if Saddam tells the Bush administration that his WMD stockpile was destroyed during all the inspections and air strikes in the 90s. I doubt the administion would make the debriefing findings public. My question is how come after all this time Donald Rumsfeld hasn't figured out what to do wth Saddam if he was captured. Does this man plan anything? It's easy to play Monday morning quarterback, but I can't see how planning wasn't made for this.
  • Sully, I think you're making a mistake by comparing the Hague tribunals to ordinary criminal courts. The International Criminal Court has to deal with war crimes where testimonies and evidence may be cicumstantial, conflicting, or just plain missing. In addition the ICC also has to consider that some of those before it might have committed atrocities for fear of endangering themselves or their families, and some, after a de-nazification/baathification type program, might go on to lead depravity free lives. While some might receive only 10 years for torture and other crimes, others get tossed in jail for the rest of their lives (plus 15 years, to be served concurrently).
  • IMHO I think the Hague is the only place for Saddam, mostly because we already know he's guilty of crimes against humanity(CAH). A trial in Iraq would be a kangaroo court, at best. Any kind of US trial of Saddam would hinge upon the reasons America went to war in the first place, as the US has no authority to prosecute foreign nationals for CAH perpetrated in their own country. Since no WMDs have been found and since the US was pretty cozy with Saddam during the late Iran-Iraq war/Pre-Kuwait period I don't see that happening anytime soon. The ICC would allow for a full and legal examination of Saddam's crimes so those Iraqis whose family members and friends were tortured or disappeared during his reign would see him have to answer to his crimes. It would be justice for Iraqis and not justification of the invasion. Of course, it's nonsensical to assume the US will hand Saddam over to a court whose authority it refuses to acknowledge so I might as well get ready for SHOW TRIAL 2004! (now with less mensheviks)
  • This Just In from the Tikrit Times Classifieds: seeking immediate sublet-- cozy one rm., river vu, must see! call 555-1234 after sunset.
  • The transformation of all-powerful president to cornered wild man is the stuff of parables and will echo forever. (Sorry, now warfilter seems to be dead, I don't really know where to post stuff like this.)
  • Here is fine.
  • These really aren't FPP material (I think), but they needed attention: A Damn Shame Is there anything these guys won't say?! I have no words
  • minda: Regarding your third link, I would be interested to know what the results were right after reunification. I just got back from 5 months in Berlin and given the current economic difficulties there (20% unemployment in the former east) these numbers don't surprise me much.
  • Wow, 20% is a huge amount! But, I wonder if the east Germans expectations were too high. I wonder how many of them gave up waiting for the good life to come to them with the wall down. On the other hand, I wonder if west Germans didn't think that they would, indeed, have to help carry the load of reunification. 1 in 5 wanting the wall back is merely a by-product of change. Change, unfortunately, is a very slow process, and a painful one. There will always be a percentage of citizens who are not happy with the process, but very few Germans on either half would want to see a return of the status quo. Plus, look at the massive undertaking it has turned out to be. After 40 years of seperation in many more ways than just the wall, I'd say that in 14 years the positive changes that have been made are monumental. They should all quit bitching--it could be worse! They could have Bush for their President!
  • A friend of mine who reads German says the poll was a little more complicated, including questions on how well they thought integration was going, would they be better off with the wall up, etc. Discontent with unification was higher in the West.
  • No doubt. They have had to sacrifice the most. IMHO.
  • Hopefully he's put on trial at The Hague. Ah, wishful thinking there, dng, wishful thinking (but much appreciated).
  • tried by the U.N.?? what a bunch of crack!
  • I guess that was totally unforeseen.
  • Video.
  • And there you have it.
  • > Video I watched this. Not because I really want to watch anyone die (I don't), but because it's the biggest death sentence of my adulthood. I still don't see how killing Saddam was the right thing to do. If anything, the video of his death gives him more dignity than he deserves.
  • Riverbend: A Lynching...