June 21, 2004

• You won't get much for them, but as far as your guilt, you should have none. Think of it in the current liscense terms. A book is, essentially, a liscense entitling the owner to read the contents. You are transfering the liscense to another user. And yes, they are quite legal. For now...
• Any ideas in what I can expect to get in trade or profit? Different used books. Or a small amount of money. If they have books you want, it's well worth it.
• I remember getting 50c per paperback or $1 per hardcover for the popular stuff like Stephen King about five years ago.
• Gosh, I love getting used books (if they're in good condition). Try Addall.com, which has a used books section. Alibris is one of my favourites, as it has listings for the reliability of the vendor as well as the quality of the book. But here at least, the prices you get for selling a book to a second hand bookstore is minimal. I've had friends rather give the books away to the Salvation Army than the indignity of being paid a pittance for the books (it was in the scale of cents per book).
• I love used book stores. One of my favorite haunts. If you have just a few to unload, bookcrossings might be an idea for you to try.
• As far as feeling guilty about buying or selling used books, there is an apropos quote from an excellent talk I was just reading by Cory Doctorow about DRM. (via MetaFilter):

  "More importantly, though, a creator has a very limited say over what you can do once you lawfully acquire her works. If I buy your book, your painting, or your DVD, it belongs to me. It's my property. Not my "intellectual property" -- a whacky kind of pseudo-property that's swiss-cheesed with exceptions, easements and limitations -- but real, no-fooling, actual tangible *property* -- the kind of thing that courts have been managing through tort law for centuries."

  As for used booksellers, my favorites are Green Apple in San Francisco, and Powell's in Portland, OR. Both have new books as well. I would consider either of them as a bonafide tourist destination for anybody visiting either of these cities. Its hard to explain, but I also get a deeper level of satisfaction from buying books from independant booksellers like this, whether the books are new or used. I guess I feel, in my own little way, that I'm helping to stem the tide of corporate blandness embodied by the big box chain bookstores.
• RXR - bookcrossings is very cool. I think I'm going to try this out with a few books laying around.
• If you're going to feel guilty about second-hand book stores, you ought to feel bad about public libraries and lending your friends your books. Once you understand how silly this is, you'll feel better straight away.
• Except that public libraries pay authors a per-loan royalty.
• Sorry, that didn't come out quite right: authors are paid a royalty by the government based on the number of loans of their books from public libraries in Canada, the UK, Australia, and Germany. Although apparently not in the US.
• Just to add my 2cents (worth 1 paperback in trade): I worked in a used book store for a few summers, and my family owns 2 of them, so yes, I firmly believe that not only is there no guilt, but they're a great resource. Affordable books, old titles kept in circulation, and a great community flash-point. At the same time, I love bookcrossings, and by coincidence, I let fly 6 books yesterday, and am carrying another 6 around today to 'abandon'. Anything that keeps books circulating (be in libraries, trades, used book stores, or bookcrossing-esque things) are social goods, methinks. /bias, obviously.
• Used-book shops are where it's at. No Oprah-riddled classics, just books that look good (depending on your definition of good) and smell good (don't buy pr0n!), and feel as if they belong in the world. Supporting your local used-book shop is also good for the local economy (look at Hay-on-Wye and other "book towns"). If I can't find what I'm looking for in the used-book shops around here, I always check Abebooks, which acts as a gateway to small used-book shops, before going to Amazon.
• A good used bookstore is a joy to wander in. Some of my favourite books have come from a surprise find in a used book store. As Wilford Brimley said, "It's the right thing to do and the tasty way to do it." Okay, so maybe he wasn't talking about used book stores, but he should have been. (-:
• idea! sell your books to a used-book store, donate proceeds to First Book, "a national nonprofit organization with a single mission: to give children from low-income families the opportunity to read and own their first new books. The primary goal of First Book is to work with existing literacy programs to distribute new books to children who, for economic reasons, have little or no access to books. In the last three years alone, First Book has provided more than 20 million new books to children in need in hundreds of communities nationwide." (note: i can't vouch for this group but it sounds like a worthy cause.)
• 'Course they're fucking legal you dumb bugger.
• *votes to give Nostril a spanking*
• hehe
• I'm going to second Abebooks -- they've got damn near everything. For monkeys visiting Tennessee, behold the crackhouse that is Bookman Bookwoman on 21st Avenue South. While you're there, go across the street and stop in at the Pancake Pantry. The standard where I live is that you'll get at most a quarter of the book's value if you sell it, and about half if you trade. Trading wins everytime, IMO. More books without filling up your shelves, and you can usually find something of interest that's not at your local library.
• to clarify, 21st Ave S in Nashville
• Abebooks floats my boat too, though you should note that if you order several books at the same time, you'll get hit with multiple post and packaging charges, as they will more than likely come from different shops. On the rare occasions I've persuaded myself to part with books, I've found second-hand shops pay SFA for them. Incidentally, should any of you ever be in Dublin be sure to check out Dandelion Books, which doesn't have a website but contact details are on this list. It's dusty, disorganised and run by a man with a phenomenal knowledge of books. Everything a second-hand book shop should be.
• I heard recently that my town has the highest per capita number of book and/or manuscript dealers in the country. How cool is that? From my own personal experience, what condition the books are in (and of course whether they're hard cover/trade paperback/mass market paperback) has a lot to do with how much you'll get for them. I usually trade the good stuff for more books and donate the rest to my local Planned Parenthood, which has a huge booksale fundraiser every year.
• I don't feel guilty about used furniture or going to garage sales, so why should I feel guilty about used books?
• Wolof: In some countries yes, in others no. And I certainly don't pay royalties on loaning books to friends, whcih I do. Alnedra: What do I have to say to dheine to get a spanking, too?
• the author is not getting any of my money The author got paid when the book was sold the first time, just like Ford got paid when they sold the car the first time. You don't owe the author any more money buying a used book than you would owe Ford if you bought a used car. You'll get basically a pittance, especially if you're taking them to a Half-Price outlet.
• And here in NYC there's the fabookulous Strand. I used to work down by the Strand Annex (which is far better than the overstuffed original, imho) and would go down almost daily to see what book might find me and to just peruse covers when I was stuck, design-wise. I miss it since we moved shop uptown.
• Why then is selling used records illegal? (It is, isn't it?)
• A spanking! A spanking!
• Iwillnotjokeaboutspankingthemonkey Iwillnotjokeaboutspankingthemonkey Iwillnotjokeaboutspankingthemonkey Iwillnotjokeaboutspankingthemonkey Iwillnotjokeaboutspankingthemonkey
• Books are sooooo 20th century.
• Why then is selling used records illegal? (It is, isn't it?) What? Its certainly not in Britain.
• Why then is selling used records illegal? (It is, isn't it?) It isn't in the US either ... or if it is, there are a LOT of stores here in Austin breaking the law by selling used CDs and vinyl (as well as DVD and VHS movies).
• a LOT of stores here in Austin breaking the law But no chains - ever notice that? And there'd be serious profit, because people sell them for nothing. Okay, cards on the table: I've always assumed that there must be some law, because otherwise somebody would make national distribution of used cds possible, and there is no such. And the record companies tolerate the Mom n Pop stores the same reason they tolerate small-scale p2p sharing, not worth the money to prosecute. Am I wrong?
• No one seems to have told ebay...
• Hey! I know something about this! I've been a used book dealer for over twenty years. Are they legal? I feel strange buying used books, like the author is not getting any of my money. Yes, without any reservations.The author was paid when the book was new. You can sell them just like you'd sell any other personal property. The only part of a book under protection are the words within, if still under copyright. Any ideas in what I can expect to get in trade or profit? Ah- the real question. Do you want to dump them all at once, or sell them piece-meal to the best market? The short answer is; the more you educate yourself about what books you have and where they might sell the best, the more you can expect to get for them. Bookstores are as idiosyncratic as their owners, so don't expect any one store to want everything you have in equal proportions. ABE is an excellent resource, as mentioned above, for checking what your books may be selling for. About.com has a good set of links to articles explaining all this in much more detail. I try to avoid Alibris or Amazon, as they act as jobbers for booksellers, so you'll always pay more and get less through them. Please email me if you have more questions.
• But no chains - ever notice that? And there'd be serious profit, because people sell them for nothing. Okay, cards on the table: I've always assumed that there must be some law, because otherwise somebody would make national distribution of used cds possible, and there is no such. And the record companies tolerate the Mom n Pop stores the same reason they tolerate small-scale p2p sharing, not worth the money to prosecute. Am I wrong? Isn't the reason chains don't seel second hand cd's the same reason Gap doesn't sell second hand clothes - its not what they're there for.
• But no chains - ever notice that? How many stores do you need to make a chain? Amoeba Music is an excellent source of used music, and has three stores, (San Francisco, Berkeley, and Hollywood) so I'd argue that's a chain. I would guess that the big national chains are too beholden to the RIAA and the major labels to sell used music. On preview, dng's reason makes more sense.
• The Wherehouse chain buys and sells used CDs and DVDs, and Amazon sells them through their partners.
• There's a small chain in New Zealand called Real Groovy whose backbone is the used market; they also stock new stuff, so they obviously haven't ticked off record and movie companies too much. There's also Cash Converters, or, as I like to refer to them after one bad experience too many, Stolen Goods Converters. I would guess the reason people don't build chains is that the business model isn't really that amenable to chains. The supply of new books and CDs is backed by multi-million dollar campaigns, store readings, etc, and companies will generally ensure stock of the latest Stephen King or Evanescence will be readily availble to retailers. The second hand market is based on a far more fickle supply, and can't rely on hype to drum up demand.
• Wow..thanks all! I appreciate the answers and commentary. I really didn't think they were illegal, maybe just kind of toeing the line, but what you say makes sense. I plan to go in this week with about 1/4 of my books and see what I can get. I'm in Tucson and going to Bookman's. Anyone else from the area? That knows a better place?
• Most chains don't do used books because the little buggers are labor intensive. The staff needs more training, and the books all need individual handling, which adds up to higher costs. New books, by comparison, come in large quantities of fewer titles, and honestly, any trained monkey could process and sell them. (no offense intended!) Some chains have added small used book departments to their larger stores, but operate them as loss-leaders for promotional purposes. Half-Price Books is one of the few successful used-book chain stores, but they manage by underpaying for product, as several people have mentioned. Sometimes you'll find good stuff, but the staff usually doesn't know the difference.
• I've had several friends who have had great success selling books on half.com and amazon.com.
• Oh. Um, oops.
• dheine: just be sure to remove things left between the pages before you take the books in. You know, like pictures of naked wrestlers, wrap sheets, that sort of thing.
• (or rap sheets, if you're interested in spelling)
• certain - that link is brilliant.
• Great story certain! I bought a cookbook at an garage sale once. Brought it home, opened it up, and found a shopping list and a $10 bill.
• Online Battle of Low-Cost Books NYT online login: noneofyour email: business
• From shinything's NYT article: "Trade publishing houses live and die with their backlist revenues" This used to be true, but publishers now focus mostly on their new entries, hoping to make another bestseller. If the publishers were really interested in developing backlist, they'd be putting out more special interest titles in smaller printings. Thankfully, there are plenty of small publishers willing to fill this need.
• just be sure to remove things left between the pages I have a cork board in my office filled with this stuff: currency from all over, old newspaper clippings, notes and love letters, photos both weird and risque. The staff loves them, but we get so much that even the good stuff gets tossed after a couple of months.