June 11, 2004

• First thing's first, have you communicated this to your SO, and if so, what was zir reaction?
• Ditto on shawnj's q - ?
• I would hate to contribute to a breakup, so please don't heed my advice. I am not an expert and have never been in a relationship that lasted forever (includes one marriage). That being said...Yes, there should be more. True love...the kind of love that people write songs and poems about...that should be your goal. Nobody should endure an existence without it. The trouble is...you will likely go through an extended period of pain, regret, and self-doubt before you are even capable of finding it again. YMMV
• do you have any kids? what ages are you? (i'm not trying to ID you, those issues are important to the discussion)
• SideDish why?
• Yes, we've discussed this a few times over the last 1.5 to 2 years. We've been discussing this for a little while currently. The response is that all is fixable and nothing is so serious that we should call it quits. There are no children and we're both mid-sih 30s.
• My hunch is that as long as there aren't external factors at play, an unstructured vacation might do a lot of good.
• A vacation together, that is.
• same sex?
• Actually I was wondering whether you all have tried just taking a vacation from one another? Absence making the heart grow fungus, etc.
• because if there are kids there are other people involved in the relationship -- thus, the decision to stay/go is more complicated. and if you're younger, walking away might be easier/preferable because you have more of a life ahead of you, thus more time to take chances for happiness. don't get me wrong, i'm not saying you should split. i don't know enough about the situation. here's a book that helped me greatly in deciding to leave my perfectly fine (but not for me) 12-year marriage: Too Good to Leave, Too Bad to Stay: A Step-By-Step Guide to Helping You Decide Whether to Stay in or Get Out of Your Relationship that said, i am infinitely happier now than i ever was married. even though leaving was hellish.
• Is this really what long term relationships are like? every one is infinitely different. you wouldn't even get the same answer to that question from two people in a long-term relationship.
• Is this a test to see if we might make awful jokes or play nice, or are you really bringing your relational problems to a 'best of the web' site?
• SideDish - thanks for the link. I think I'll see if I can pick that book up locally tonight.
• (you're welcome, there are other helpful books listed as links to that one on the amazon site.) (p.s. i feel your pain. i really do. it's agonizing, this process and decision...)
• We all know monkeys play nice, jernie, and it's not the first time someone's asked for relationship help. *scuffs toe in dirt, looks around*
• I really had to breathe deep not to make jokes about those emails about my penis-size.
• I think, to a certain extent, you have to be very careful about what your definition of love is. If you're relying on love to be those hormone-generated feelings of infatuation, than that's not a solid basis for a relationship. I think much of a relationship is work, and the work involves overcoming the temptation to deal with issues passive aggressively, instead of getting them out openly and honestly on the table. My experience has been that once you go through a bit of struggle communicating honesty, love deepens and the relationship gets stronger.
• I think much of a relationship is work you know, i've heard that my whole life. and i've decided that i don't agree. i think the best relationships are often those that are comfortable and easy. there are those out there.
• A long term relationship has a lot more to it. There's all the inside jokes. And vacations together. And dinners shared with friends. And movies you both love. And political debates you've had so often, you can do it in your sleep. That's the first person you think to call with good news and the only person you want to call with bad news. It's really hard to lose that person in your life. You need a way to talk to each other about this stuff, and maybe doing new things together will break down that wall. Set up a date night schedule and stick to it. There's all sorts of advice on the web about creative dates. Don't do one or two weeks and then abandon it. Keep at it. Trying new things gets the blood flowing, not to mention the conversation.
• SideDish, I remember finding that book in my ex-girlfriends shelf, when we were still together. HA. Ahem, anyway, since you mentioned unfulfilling sex, or just its rarity, I thought I'd weigh in on this. (BTW, there's an interesting and apropos metafilter thread, "suburban sex" that I'd link if they were up.) Sex is very important to me in a relationship. I can't imagine being in a relationship where I didn't constantly want to tear my girl's clothes off and have wild monkey sex every moment of the day. Maybe it's because I'm young. And maybe it's not sex that's so important to me--I think it's passion. I need that.
• I'm with you, SideDish. If it's work, something's wrong. Either fix it so it's not work or get out. And age is not so much of an issue anymore. With the advent of internet dating sites it's quite easy to find local singles in your mid (or late) 30's.
• Communication's at the root of most mundane marriage/cohabitation problems. My guess is that your SO isn't really good at confronting conflict head-on, or you'd be having better discussions about this. But to his/her credit, breaking up seems too extreme a measure, so his/her commitment doesn't seem to be at issue. It's hard keeping the passion alive. I've only been married a year, and I'm already figuring that out. Falling into a rut is the easiest thing in the world to do. A lack of "quality time" could be contributing to this (based on what little info we have to work with here). Are you two having time together every day where the TV and computer are turned off and you talk face-to-face? I don't mean necessarily discussing problems, but just talking about anything, no matter how inconsequential. You'd be amazed what half an hour per day will do for you. Seriously, it sounds like such a small thing, but it has an amazing effect on your relationship. You also might try reaching out by doing things for your SO, setting up little "special events" for the two of you, mostly romantic in nature. Simple stuff -- candlelight dinner at home, an evening massage pointed in one very obvious direction. See if he/she responds to this, if he/she feels inspired to do the same for you. In other words, try to get the ball rolling yourself through positive action. Go parking together. Try to do goofy kid stuff. Whimsical eroticism is fun. But if you've tried and failed at this, you might try some relationship counseling. In that setting, it's piss or get off the pot. You have to discuss things, or else you make it clear that you're not interested in working on it.
• And my opinion is that passion isn't something you can negotiate. Anonymousy, it seems like you've tried your best to salvage the relationship, and make yourself feel the same way your SO does. But it's not working. Is this thread really a way to validate your instinct--to break up? If so, then here, you've been validated.
• Talk to your partner. Beyond that, I can't tell you what to do, Anonymouse, but I sympathize. Ending a long-term relationship is very hard, and for people in your situation who are financially intertwined, for all practical purposes it's pretty much like contemplating divorce. (And I say that as a divorced person myself- in my case, the reason for my departure was abundantly clear, and it was still a hard and painful step to take.) Despite that, I've always felt that if two people genuinely like and respect each other and themselves, and are committed to working through the bumps and potholes in the road, you can get through a lot. If the respect is gone, forget it. And I will add what I always says to friends in relationship trouble - we want your happiness, and we can't tell you what to do, but we'll support you in whatever decision you make. (Even though we're not sure which of our Monkey friends you are.)
• ditto that last part
• SideDish: I used to agree, but since having a child, I find that it takes a little bit more conscious effort sometimes to make time for the relationship, as there's this little creature demanding all of our time and energy. On preview, what middleclasstool said... I agree with Daniel; I think passion is the key. That Metafilter thread on suburban sex is fascinating, and I was looking forward to following it. JRun ruins all the fun.... There's also another a link in another Metafilter thread about Troubadours that Y2Karl posted on Valentine's Day a couple of years ago that discusses the dangers of domesticity and the effects it can have on a relationship.
• What Mickey said. No relationship is perfect, but don't settle for one that leaves you feeling this way. If you can improve it by talking, "working on the relationship," &c, great, but it sounds like you should be mentally preparing yourself for a split, which will be painful as hell and leave you free to find a mate who makes you feel the way you should be feeling. You're young, so you've got all the time in the world; I have it on the very best of authority that one can find the right relationship when one has reached one's fifties!
• I've never been in couples therapy but I've recently become a convert to therapy in general, not so much for the actual sessions but because it forces me to actually stop and think about what i'm doing on a regular basis. I know I have that appointment and my therapist generally gives me one or two things to work on and knowing that that appointment is coming up makes me work on it. So in that way its like a trainer at a gym in that therapy is something that forces me to work on the things I know I need to work on but would probably just let go (and have been) if I didn't have that appointment. So I think that couple's therapy might be the same thing in that regard. So think about it.
• I'll echo what jccalhoun said, but I'd also suggest you think about it for yourself. When I left my marriage I went into therapy boot camp (twice a week for three months, with someone who specialized in grief/divorce counseling) and it was worth every penny.
• -mostly we just don't talk about things until they are unbearable you (both) are afraid to be honest out of fear of hurting the other one's feelings? this could be serious, because ironically the more you like each other, the worse this problem could get. -roomies with occassional (read: rare) benefits not enough monkey love? ouch. such a primal thing, isn't it? try losing some weight, there, chunkers. and stop spending so much time on an internet message board. go rub your SO's feet. remember... change must come from within. failing any of this, the answer is simple: drugs. more or different drugs.
• This input really is awesome. I thank you all for sharing your suggestions, ideas and opinions. Just for those of you that have been curious: I really don't want to leave this relationship, but I don't want to keep hitting my head against a brick wall, either. This is my first truly long term relationship and the only other model I have to base it's success or failings on is the relationship of my parents, which wasn't all that healthy. And by all means, keep the input flowing if you've got it.
• I'm in my mid-20s and have no real input to offer you. But I just wanted to say I think it's a great thing that you're able to post here and get the response you have from this community. You crazy monkeys make me proud.
• I really feel for you. Went through the same thing years ago, after 12 years with my wife. Second all the advice above. Be completely honest about your feelings, and tell her what you've told us. If you think an intermediary would help, seek a good counselor ("good" meaning one who does not take sides, and acts more as a referee) Since your SO seems to think this is fixable, half the battle is won, but you will also have to be extra honest with yourself about your goals for the future. Do you really want this to work, and if so, how? Try to envision what a working relationship looks like. Relationships, like friendships, fall into patterns and habits that may need to be broken. Learning to relate in completely new ways is a lot of work, but the rewards can be considerable. As for my wife and I, we ended up divorced, went through hell and back, and are better friends now than when we were together. It turned out I didn't really want to be married- to anybody.
• I've been hanging back from commenting because I'm not sure my experiences have any bearing on your problem, but there are little echoes which make me think they might. If this doesn't fit, just ignore it. My (ex)husband absolutely adored me. I had never been put on a pedestal before, and it was so romantic! So, we married, and had some good years, but when I hit my mid-ish 30's, I began to realize that his response to any problem in our relationship was, "But, I love you!" Which really meant, in my mind, that he took no responsibility for solving the problems we encountered, since loving me should be enough - which kind of made me responsible for the success of the marriage. We'd gone from a having lots of fun together to an unacceptable situation. And, I eventually left him, and don't regret it -but I probably stayed in the relationship for 10 years too long, by which time all the buttons he could push were turned to "off." What I learned was that it's so important to be friends - like the high-school friend that you still talk to because you can still have fun together. Losing the abilty to play with your friend/lover is tough. And, I agree with those who have said that relationships probably don't need work, but it only applies if your positions are equal.
• (a) this thread is, without one shadow of a doubt, the best that could ever be of monkeyfilter: i.e., what de Carabas said. (b) Anonymouse, I have nothing to offer you but sympathy and love and good wishes: i.e., what de Carabas said.
• My dad broke up with his wife recently and they got back together after weeks of joint counselling. They're now in a weekly married-couple workshop and seem very happy. My personal advice -- and this is what I would do in your situation but not necessarily what you should, ymmv, etc etc -- would be to get away for a week or two on your own and see how different you feel while away and on your return.
• And my sympathy, also.
• My dad and mom ALSO just broke up a few months ago, but they're moving to different states. I was just having a conversation with a friend about how I feel ready to settle down with the right girl; we just have to find each other first. mousy: i'm a big fan of honesty. If the sex is lackluster, go get some padded handcuffs. Or anal beads. Or edible body paint. Whatever, indulge and see what comes (no pun intended) of it. It's astonishing what good sex brings to a relationship; I'm pretty sure I couldn't have a longterm without it. Similarly, I think it's important for there to be constant communication and openness. You're saying things don't get discussed until it's unbearable; I say it takes two to tango. Stir up the shit if that's what's warranted. A little forethought and action is bound to go a long way. It's a weak two cents, but it's mine.
• Anonymouse, I am soon approaching my 30's, and have had my share of commited relationships. Your trials sound particularly like what I went through the past 5 years. I'll let you know this: I got out of a 4 relationship 1 year ago. The boy was perfect, my family loved him, and wanted us to get married, and i got along perfectly with his. He loved me more than anything else in the world, and he put up with all my mood-swings and neurosis just to stay together. He wanted desperately to make it work. He was younger, but had ambition, promise, a great job, and i could tell he would be successful, and eventually a good father. However, the romance faded after the first 2 years. The last 2 years were filled with my indecision, annoyance, and lack of passion for this boy. I stayed with him because it was comfortable, familiar, and easy. We were compatible, but there was nothing special. No intensity. We stopped having frequent sex, because I was no longer attracted to him in that way. I started being mean to him, and making arguments over nothing so that he would see the 'ugly' side of me, and maybe break-up with me instead. Well, it didn't work, and I broke up with him abruptly one night, and regretted the decision instantly. He couldn't deal with the seperation, and asked that we not speak. We had no friendship. I pined for him, and thought about him constantly. I thought I had made the worst decision of my life. I dated a few guys, and found no one to compare. Until recently. I found a spectacular guy who erased all memories of the former boy. In fact, I never realized how dull, stupid, or lame he was until I met the new man. I now regret staying with the former boy for so long after the romance faded, and vow never to do it again. Therefore, I'm not telling you to seperate from your SO. I"m just giving you my own experience. I think I just got very lucky with the new guy. And if i hadn't met him, i'd definitely still be pining for my ex... If comfort, familiarity, and stability is more of an important consideration in your life, stay with your S.O. Remember, it is soooo difficult to meet anyone new. I dated 3 guys before i found the new one, which sucked and was very damaging. You may as well stick together, eh? Besides, you have the shared investment, which i can't even imagine sorting out...Regardless of your decision, best of luck!
• I'll second de Carabas. A thought that won't help with the relationship, but would be kind of cool. Since the Anonymouse account is a one shot account anyway, post the password. That way, if someone else has a question they don't want to ask as themselves they can ask it as Anonymouse, and everybody will know what kind of post it is. I dunno, it may not be such a good idea, but it would avoid someone starting a new account everytime they had this type of question. Longer than I'd meant to be. Hope your situation resolves itself in a manner that works for you and your SO.
• I second Pez's suggestion. Anonymouse, please keep us updated with what you're thinking? - if you feel comfortable doing so.
• I second Pez idea about posting the password. But should you post it in some way only members can see it and use it (Psst, put it in place of the mail account like: [email protected]).
• I am wondering who would be the first poster to go, "I'm actually XXX, but am using this Anonymouse account to ask a personal question." Perhaps we can even make this a shoot-off of "Curious, George".
• off-shoot! off-shoot! I meant off-shoot!
• MonkeyFilter: Let's make this a shoot-off...
• If everyone had access to an account then someone could potentially shit all over a thread with the Anonymouse acct. and the username would have to be deleted. Just a thought.
• Hello, spelling?
• Anonymouse ... first of all, my sympathies ... and I'd definately echo any of the recommendations above to seek some relationship counselling/therapy ... hopefully it ought to help you and your partner to work out what's going on with you both and give you the tools to work out what you're really feeling (you mention that your parents' relationship wasn't good - that's likely to have had an effect on you) If your S.O. won't - then go yourself - it will at least help you understand what you've brought to the relationship and allow you to make decisions that you're comfortable with .. It won't be easy at first - but it should get better ... My last relationship was a disaster ... everything that had ever gone wrong before magnified a thousand times ... stuff happened that is barely credible ... But I went and talked to someone for a coupla years and have been lucky enough to meet a wonderful woman ... lucky yes but I'm also now in a position to deal with shit when it happens and not let it take over and dominate the relationship Good luck - I hope some/any of this helps
• I'm kind of alarmed at some of the similarities I see between some of your experiences and my own. naxosaxur, I'd especially like to thank you for sharing your story. I'm not sure yet exactly what will happen, but I now have a varieties of experiences shared here to draw strength from. Thank you all. Oh, I agree with genial re: equal access to this account. Abuse is too tempting for an anonymous account.