May 30, 2004

• Thank you, CellarFloor. I don't give a rat's rump if this is letter is genuine (as one poster to the site suggested) or not, I sent a copy to my friends as well as posted this comment to Seablogger. This woman speaks to the heart of the human condition very eloquently. I felt moved enough to pass it on--something that rarely happens as I'm a complete cynic when it comes to "feel good" email. I wasn't going to send it to my religious friends, but then I thought how insulting that might be--as if they couldn't understand how a mother could feel for her son. Whether or not you agree with her conclusions regarding the religious aspects, certainly you can hear her words as a mother and as a human being. There's simply too much intolerance in this world. I probably can hear her voice more clearly than most of you can, because one of my beautiful daughters was teased and called a lesbian all throughout high school because she was slightly "different." I won't tell you her name, but I will tell you that both of them are NOT lesbian, never HAD lesbian relationships, and have been in in one or more loving heterosexual relationships. One has three beautiful daughters, one is expecting her first. The more my daughter was hounded by the students, the more she withdrew into her circle of close female friends. Unfortunately, most of those abandoned her because they were afraid of being tainted with the title of "lesbian." She was finally left with one close friend, and the teasing was merciless for both of them. Both my girls had few dates in high school, and I thought it was because they had other interests. But apparently it was because they wouldn't "put out," and apparently today's male high school subculture doesn't appreciate that. I never knew till recently that one the few "dates" I thought she had been on ended in a near rape. I could never understand the mentality of those students--especially the boys--she would have loved to been asked out on a true date. Several of the little bastards stood up and yelled, "Lesbian" when she went on stage to receive her diploma. A lot of the girls snickered. They must have known she was not lesbian. Why do something so cruel? I can remember being teased and called "Tomboy" and "Horse-Nut" because I wasn't interested in boys or dating, only horses and reading--but never would I have dreamed that both my daughers--who dressed more feminine than I and wore makeup--something I didn't do till thirty and still seldom do--would be on the receiving end of this type of torment. We are all entitled to believe as the spirit or Spirit moves us and to be accorded respect for our beliefs. But stop and think about what this woman is saying. Feel free to email me with a reference header or forward this, if you wish. Love, GramMa.
• Thank you Cellar AND Thank you Blue.
• You know, I usually tend to agree with the going wisdom that posts about political issues don't really constitute "best of the web" -- I enjoy reading them, but I don't usually think of news-related posts that way. But this letter is a clear exception for me. Beautiful, poignant, touching. Shame more people don't know how to live and let live. Blue, I read your post on both sites. I'm terribly sorry your daughters had to suffer so at the hands of brutes and philistines. Hope they are living happy and fulfilled lives now.
• middleclasstool: It was only the one daughter, but I didn't want to identify her that closely, as I didn't have her permission to do so. I should have waited to post and done a preview, as I didn't do a very clear job writing. Too emotional about the whole thing, I guess. I just gotta crack-up when she comes back to her ol' hometown and the guys start hitting on her. (She's pretty hit-on-able, and that's not just mom talking. She's 6'2" in heels, weighs 132lbs, hazel eyes, long naturally sun-kissed blonde hair--frequently whistled at while passing construction sites and cowboy bars.) She's very polite to the home-boy vermin. I, however, wouldn't piss on them if they were on fire.
• Thanks for sharing BlueHorse. I was bullied too, although not for those reasons. However, I identify heavily with the experience. This really struck a chord with me, and from all the comments I've read on it on various forums, it has with everyone who's read it.
• One of my best friends from elementary school through high school (he lives in Miami now) is gay and went through much of the same thing. I can remember one night in HS where we had to basically rush him out of a (straight) club before five steroid-injected jocks landed the beating they promised him. My friend was dancing with a female friend of ours, she got a little too close and he jokingly told her "stop, people are gonna think I'm straight." The jocks heard this, started making threats and followed us all the way to a restaurant two towns over even after we left to get away from them. It's both amazing and revulting to consider the hate that goes into that kind of behavior. The bright spot is there seems to be less of this sort of thing as time goes on and society takes those baby steps toward greater tolerance. The only part of the editorial I didn't like was this: You religious folk just can't bear the thought that as my son emerges from the hell that was his childhood he might like to find a lifelong companion and have a measure of happiness Hey, I'm religious and I don't hate or wish ill on anyone. General note to folks writing persuasive pieces on intolerance -- don't be intolerant. Just because jackasses like Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson have the loudest microphones does not mean they speak for all Christians. Ditto for the extremist imams who advocate throwing homosexuals off the tops of buildings. We knew enough not to make sweeping generalizations about religious faiths when terrorism hit us and we should know enough to avoid the same pitfall on sexuality issues. For a thoughtful and well-written look at how real, faithful Christians consider the issue of homosexuality, this is a good place to start.
• For a thoughtful and well-written look at how real, faithful Christians consider the issue of homosexuality, That's the problem, de Carabas. Those espousing bigoted and paranoid views of homosexuality claim to be "real, faithful Christians" too. To them, anyone who is even slightly sympathetic to 'the homosexual agenda' is part of the problem, even if they are card-carrying Christians too.
• Thanks for the post Cellar. That was a very moving letter to read...... How ignorant, and evil, it is to discriminate! It's a mind boggle how people spew such hate openly with one hand pointing, the other holding a bible. I just don't get it. Also BlueHorse thank you for sharing your experiences with us. I think you got some very cool kids.
• Alnedra's got it. There's Christians, and then there's KKKhristians--kinda like Amerikins. Holiest of all are the Amerikin KKKhristians. I'd always despised Butthole Suthin' Bapists, until I met a woman who was, and always will be, to me a shining example of what the best Christian should be. Kind, forgiving, tolerant, understanding, non-judgmental. Staunch in her beliefs and morals, yet accepting of others. And *gack* --she was a SB. Dang, I sure hate it when my nicely boxed stereotypes get all untidy. General note to folks writing persuasive pieces on intolerance -- don't be intolerant. Yea, intolerance sucks. I do think this woman's anger and defensiveness was directed at the Khristians Kommunity in her town, not toward all Christians everywhere, but it's got to be hard not to let years of hurt and anger poison one's outlook. Hey, I'm religious .... de Carabas, it IS hard not to get defensive, isn't it? Stereotyping sucks, too. The fact that you read this post and felt impelled to comment indicates whatever your position on homosexuality, you're willing to look at something that may challenge or run contrary to your beliefs. Just my guess, but I'll bet that you practice "Judge not, lest thou be judged." eh? BlueHorse: 100% unrepentent heathen. KKKhristians were my inspiration.
• doh! who needs preview or spell check dang html tags!
• She makes the delineation between intolerant and tolerant christians. So it's safe to say that when she uses the term in a negative manner it's implied she's talking about the bad apples.

• We believe people are gay not because they choose to be so, but because all of nature is fallen and out of wack.

  Yeah, that's a great worldview there, de Carabas.
• Homophobes are scum. People who use homosexual or lesbian slang terms to insult others are also scum. Christian philosophy on homosexuality is, even at the 'liberal' end - irrational and 'out of wack' with reality. The end.
• People who use homosexual or lesbian slang terms to insult others are also scum. Some of this would depend on their age. You can generally educate the young ones out of it. Stigmatising a kid who says "that's so gay" as gutbucket shite is a pretty dumb man
• My best friend - who is gay, quite happily attached - will say stuff like "that's so gay" at times too. So, well-meant as it is, Nostril, your generalisation is inaccurate.
• Adams et al did a study in 1996, and found that 80% of homophobes were turned on by images of gay sex, as opposed to 33% of straight, non-homophobic men. 'S interesting.
• Christian philosophy on homosexuality is, even at the 'liberal' end - irrational and 'out of wack' with reality. Come on, Nostril, you can do better than this. I'm a Christian, don't have a problem with homosexuality, don't see it as an abomination or an aberration or a consequence of "fallen" nature. It just is what it is. Something "irrational" or "out of wack" about that?
• You religious folk just can't bear That rankled me, too. And I'm 100% certified agnostic. The Dean of the local diocese's Episcopalian cathedral) is soooo gay. As are many, many members of his congregation. I don't give a rat's rump if this is letter is genuine I do, because otherwise there's little excuse for its shrill and maudlin tone.
• Snopes has nothing on Sharon Underwood, but a little Googling revealed that she also wrote a letter criticizing Boy Scouts of America for firing gay scoutmaster Mark Noel. Noel has a web page http://iml.dartmouth.edu/mark/scouting/articles/ and has posted the letter in this thread. He adds that the author gave permission. Looks as though it's real.
• Yeah, that's a great worldview there, de Carabas. You know what that tells me? You did not read the entire link. If you did read the entire link, why did you choose to quote something out of context so it looks like the Baptist who wrote it is intolerant? And if you read the entire link, what of the story the minister references about Philip and the Eunich? And: Gay love also can be fulfilling and admirable. How can one not admit this after seeing a gay man compassionately care for his companion who is dying of AIDS? Does this passage sound like the writing of an intolerant minister? I think you proved my point for me -- Christianity gets a bad rep from folks who don't bother to take the time to explore what the vast majority of sane, rational voices are saying. Bluehorse writes: de Carabas, it IS hard not to get defensive, isn't it? Stereotyping sucks, too. The fact that you read this post and felt impelled to comment indicates whatever your position on homosexuality, you're willing to look at something that may challenge or run contrary to your beliefs. Just my guess, but I'll bet that you practice "Judge not, lest thou be judged." eh? You know, I think you're exactly right. And I also think as Christians we have a responsibility to look at things that on the surface may not seem to immediately fall in line with church doctrine. As for judge not, lest thou be judged, here again I have to reference my earlier link: Ultimately, the church has no simple answers for gays or anyone else. Ultimately, the only thing the church has to offer is the only thing it really has, Christ crucified, the Lamb that was slaughtered. The cross is no simple answer either, not even for God's Son. ... Jesus invites you to come to the foot of His cross. The cross is the place you can come when you have exhausted all the simple answers. (Indeed, does anyone come to the cross any other time?) Christ is there on the cross for you. He will not turn you away. That is what Jesus will do with you. I don't know what the rest of us gathered there on Calvary are going to do with you. I really don't. But I hope we will choose to welcome you. The message here is clear and simple -- whatever people say, however people choose to interpret the word of God, the bottom line is that whatever you do in life is between you and God, and for no one else to judge. That, my friends, is a far cry from intolerance.
• LIve and let live. Why is this so hard, even amongst a group of people I have always found to be intelligent and open minded?
• I have many gay friends (some, sadly having passed on). Having spent much time with all of them, I have been privy to some of the horrors they've been confronted with solely because of their sexuality. Twice, out dancing at gay clubs bomb threats were called in and were taken seriously enough to force evacuation. On another occasion, some gang members came in showing guns and saying they were going to 'kill all these fags'. All the more frightening because they were obviously high/drunk. I have seen my friends bravely hold their heads up whenever they overheard homophobic insults thrown their way. My heart has broken a thousand times watching them live in a world so intolerant of 'differences'. My friends have integrity. They are loyal, intelligent, beautiful, spiritual, hard-working, empathetic, patient, understanding and loving. My friends help sustain/support this society, they pay taxes, they go to church and they pay attention to the world around them. I admire them for their ability to keep living their lives in the face of adversity and, at times, fear. I love them for their strength of character and and their ability to laugh at themselves. I feel fortunate to have these people in my life and I will forever be on their side.
• Goetter, this is a story lived by many a gay teen in America. The story isn't all that special, the only special thing is the way it was so wonderfully articulated.