May 07, 2004

If you took even one psych class in college, you've probably heard of the "Stanford Prison Experiment." Take a group of college students, randomly assign them to two groups: prisoners and guards. Give both of them the accoutrements of their roles--uniforms, etc. Now, let them go and see how they act it out.

You probably already know how this turned out. There were problems practically from the outset. The guards became sadistic; the prisoners staged a "riot". The whole thing spun out of control so quickly the researchers had to call the thing off. Cool site with pictures and even rm clips.

posted by pyrrthon1 19 years ago
  • It's not hard to understand how some people can "become" sadists so quickly and so easily. /ObviousFilter
  • Not precisely a double-post, but mentioned both here and here in an older/ongoing thread about torture.
  • there is also the rather shocking experiment carried out by milgram having worked in prisons for so many years, i observed the difficulty of any individual maintaining personal integrity in the face of: being in control of those you may hold in some contempt, surrounded by demanding peers whose approval one needs for emotional and physical survival and being sequestered away behind closed doors.
  • In light of the thin veneer of civilization we have over the centuries painted onto our predatory Hobbesian selves, we should all remind ourselves that honor, courtliness, politesse and in general gentlemanly/ladylike behavior are increasingly valuable - and valued - and need not interfere with one's natural pragmatism, or efforts on behalf of oneself and one's loved ones. We all know, secretly in our black-rim'd hearts, that we have these capacities - who amongst us has not at one time felt utter contempt for another, or felt dark murderous rage rising like bile in the gorge? It is what we do with them that makes us civilized, or not. Locked in our skulls, we sometimes have a difficult time remembering (or even, for some, learning and accepting) that other people are indeed people too - that locked in their skulls, they have the same complexity of life, thought, emotion and experience (in short, the same humanity) as we do. Every one of them, as rich and meaningful a set of experiences as yours. The next time, then, you feel about to treat someone else cavalierly, remember that although they look differently, in their heads they are just like you. We must also remember, similarly, that there are those who will never be able to do this, to identify themselves with others in any meaningful way. They are the rapists, the murderers-for-hire, the child abusers, the casual sadists, the extorters, the enslavers, that we come across in the papers (if we're lucky) or in our own lives (if we're not) each day. It is our contract with each other that we remain vigilant in our collective defense against these people, to prevent their predations if we may, to punish them for their transgressions when we fail, but above all to protect those defenseless among us from the actions of these people when the color of their character is known - and also to act with pity and succor where we may, and to seek the underlying causes of such handicaps and root them out.
  • It's easy, far too easy, to regard such behaviour as alien to us. But nothing that is human can be truly alien to us. You are right, Fes. Both the potential for decent and humane dealings with our fellows and the potential to behave like denizens of a conventional hell are equally present in us all. Each of us has the power to make choices about our lives, we do have that power, even when the great world goes into another convulsion of hatred and slaughter, and even though an individual's range of options may seem very small by contrast to the monolithic and terrifying structures humanity has erected about itself at this time.
  • there is also the rather shocking experiment carried out by milgram We do what we're told We do what we're told We do what we're told Told to do. one doubt one voice one war one truth one dream /Shock the Monkeyfilter
  • Well said, Fes.
  • Fes for Pres! Of course, I wouldn't and can't vote for you.
  • My understanding of the experiment is that the social "norms" overide the personal; the environment produces actions people would not otherwise do themselves. It is not the participants little black hearts that drive the prison experiment, it's the prison itself. Fes, you conclude your statement with a rally to "seek the underlying causes of such handicaps and root them out." Does this mean that you support changing the environments and instutions that foster crime and brutality? In this particular situation, you would change the experiment's prison? Or is the cause of the abuses to be found in the a random group of people selected to the "guards"?
  • the environment produces actions people would not otherwise do themselves. It is not the participants little black hearts that drive the prison experiment, it's the prison itself. I agree... up to a point. There is always the choice to not follow the mob, even though we are predators at heart (Darwin's djinni didn't give us incisors for no good reason, after all). It is easier to lapse into brutality, under these (and many other) circumstances... but it isn't inevitable. We may choose to do otherwise, regardless of environment. Does this mean that you support changing the environments and instutions that foster crime and brutality? Of course I do. Are there actually people who prefer crime and brutality? Where you and I might differ, I supect, is in what changes to make, and how to make them. In this particular situation, you would change the experiment's prison? I don't think so - it is, after all, an experiment, designed to reveal, not to punish. What we ought to do is use the results of this experiment to aid in recognizing the environments in which people tend to revert to barbarism, and either try to modify those environments, or select people who are better suited to retain their composure in those environments that cannot be ameliorated. Or is the cause of the abuses to be found in the a random group of people selected to the "guards"? AND in the random group of people selected to be "inmates." Each of us has the capacity for brutality, whether we are willing to admit it or not. The circumstances that make one an inmate should be examined to see if there are underlying conditions (poverty, abuse, lack of opportunity, genetics, etc) that can be remedied, and those that would guard them examined to ensure that the power and authority being vested in them has the least likely chance of being abused, while maintaining the safety of both guard, and inmate. Of course, I wouldn't and can't vote for you. Really, it's an honor just to be nominated :D
  • Fes is quite correct: for all we to give ourselves airs and graces, we are monkeys. Well, apes. That doesn't mean we need abandon trying to do better than the average tribbe of bonobo or chimps, but it's worth remembering that contrary to what some people would like to think, the Holocaust was not a horror that only Germans could perpetrate. Most everyone can be capable of horrible things if we don't stop and think about what we're doing. And comforting lies like "God approves", "my country right or wrong", "we are guardians of democracy", "we have a manifest destiny" - these are all the great facilitators of evil. *hugs Fes*
  • I am really suprised that no one has pointed out the relevance this experiment has to what happened in Abu Ghraib in Iraq. Except in Iraq, the guards were encouraged to abuse, and *then* left with no supervision. My brother heard the author of the study on NPR talking about how similar these kinds of power trips are. Very scary stuff
  • 'Twas, kuatto.
  • Now that is bizarre -- only your fist sentence registered on my screen, kuatto, and that's what I was responding to. Monkeybashi, please note this.
  • So noted. You see the rest now?