May 06, 2004

• hmmm. well, that first quote comes from a nearly 20-year-old report. and this web site refers to catholicism as "the true Faith." hmmm.
• So this is an anti-muslim esaay written by Catholics that is critisizing the oppression of women and pedophilia? "Pedophilia is not an Iranian thing—it's an Islamic thing." I think my head just exploded.
• "suggestions" from elsewhere in the site.... *Wear Our Lady's Brown Scapular *Walk out of Masses containing blasphemy or heresy *Always receive the Blessed Sacrament from a priest on the tongue and on your knees. (i won't EEEEVEN comment on that last one...)
• Oh SideDish. You're so mean. So. Very. Mean.
• Then what's keeping the christian god from delivering some cleansing thunder over all those corrupt countries? Don't tell me he would need some military crusader's help... /fits heat resistant suit
• Come on, people. This link isn't serious--it's obviously meant to be a joke. /ducks I think it's going to be hard for most to read through the filter of Catholicism that's on this piece and get to the meat of it, which is the treatment of females in parts of the Islamic world. Howzabout some more comprehensive links on the practice of female genital mutilation? Historic treatment of women in Islam?
• You're right, thoolou. It is time for a sanity check. So let's talk about the Catholic Church spreading disinformation about the use of condoms, telling people in the third world they don't prevent pregnancy or the spread of disease. Let's talk about how the Catholic Church covered up the molestation of hundreds, perhaps thousands of children by its own priests. Let's talk about how the Catholic Church tortured and killed accused heretics throughout history. Let's talk about.... Fuck the Catholic Church. They are in no position to criticize anyone.
• (oooo, i feel, i sense a fellow fallen catholic....)
• Well, if you think this is bad, perhaps you should check out Culture Wars. I was friends with this guy's kid in high school and Mr. Jones sends copies to my parents. It does make for some good entertainment when I go home though. Take your pick or be cast head first into the fiery pits of hells torment: The Unanswered Question behind the Rembert Weakland Scandal: Was the Implementation of Vatican II a Homosexual Fantasy? When was the last time you heard lyrics that weren't vetted by cultural bolshevists? Everything You Need to Know About Partial Birth Abortion (With cartoons!) More if you can take it.
• ooo! shotsy! yowsa! "How Contraceptives Cause Drive-by Shootings. E. Michael Jones explains in a step by step narrative how the sexual revolution, conceived by foundations, taken over by the federal government, ratified by the courts, and implemented in the name of "freedom," destroyed our cities. "
• if by "unusual" you mean "unusually angry", then sure. Don't forget about soup kitchens, hospitals in Africa...
• SideDish, how could I forget to link to that? The videotape of that lecture is in my parent's house. It is my favorite! There is another great one that doesn't appear to be in the archives about how abortion relates to Alien and other sci-fi movies. Classic.
• leviathan: Agreed. It'd be nice if we could get some more objective, historical links posted on this horrible situation, rather than condemnation of the "infidels". Anybody know any sites that detail this further? This is one part of American policy that I'm very proud of btw (though I'm sure it's not unique to us), the fact that women threatened with this practice can obtain political asylum in the US on those grounds.
• Just a quick link. Checking on some more sources. FWIW, I've never been catholic... ;)
• Hi. My name is Kimberly, and I'm a a recovering Roman Catholic. I'm currently 14 years heathen. Where's my pin?
• the_leviathan: Depending on how historical you're talking, Islam looks pretty sweet compared to Christianity and Judaism. Property ownership, right to divorce, all sorts of good things that weren't in most Western Christian nations until the 19th or 20th centuries. Islam itself does not mandate female genital mutilation, although, like Judaism, it mandates male genital mutilation. Most of the regions where Islam is linked with FGM are also areas where it is or was the norm for non-Islamic members of the same cultures. Fundamentally Islam isn't much better or worse than any of the other major monotheistic faiths from the perspective of this atheist. Christians trying to give themselves airs and graces above Moslems need to take a better look at their own history - or, given the ongoing refusal of the Catholic church to properly deal with pedophilia in its ranks, the present.
• Well said rodgerd! *Will you have my babies?!
• rodgerd, I think you're right if we're talking about 500 years ago. But it's important to remember that 1)the notions of tolerance and women's rights were pretty minimalist 500 years ago and; 2) there are few modern women who would prefer to live in, say, Saudi Arabia over England. That's all I wanted from this post. Just a little nuance and intellectual honesty without all the claptrap. And while I think the modern Islamic world has a horrifying view of women, FGM is an African thing that predated Islam.
• Re. "How Contraceptives Cause Drive-by Shootings." Amusingly, I've heard the opposite said-- legalized abortions led to a marked decrease in unwanted children, and, 18 years later, crime started dropping steadily.
• Not to derail all your fun y'all but this just in from the other Filter. Life can suck if you're a women in a backasswards country. The original article sucks the Big Banana, but in every religion I can think of women are second class at best. Betcha if the Pope were female, contraceptives would be a SACRAMENT.
• the_leviathan: Because, you know, England is to Christianity what Saudi Arabia is to Islam. What was that about intellectual honesty? And we're not talking 500 years, here. When did women in the west gain the ability to divorce? What about abortion rights? Contraceptives? Still illegal into the 1980s in Ireland, you know. I mean, it's not as if, right now, the largest, richest, most powerful Christian church in the world has adopted, as a formal position, that clergy ought not be prosecuted for raping a child unless they have done it more than once.
• BlueHorse: Sickening, isn't it. I can't even begin to understand why someone might want the court to give them that right on any level other than the most abstract.
• Betcha if the Pope were female, contraceptives would be a SACRAMENT. Not if she was Mother Theresa. Probably with her on top things would be worse.
• Fun with analogies... Islam is to Egypt what Christianity is to: a) Canada b) United States c) Norway d) Argentina e) other: ___________
• Zemat: I'll plunk for the United States on that list.
• the_leviathan: Because, you know, England is to Christianity what Saudi Arabia is to Islam. What was that about intellectual honesty? I picked England because they were the only nation I could think of that had an official Christian religion. That's hard to find in the West these days. Not so in the Islamic world. Other than Saudi Arabia you have: Iran, Syria, Sudan, Bangladesh, Pakistan, Indonesia, Afghanistan, Egypt, Jordan... I don't know that there are any real Christian societies in the West anymore--most are post Christian. But pick the worst Christian country and put it up against the best Islamic country. Which would you want to live in? (this is not a defense of Catholicism. My opinions of that institution consist largely of bile)
• pick the worst Christian country and put it up against the best Islamic country. Which would you want to live in? Well that's a hard questions since you didn't set any parameters as to what makes a country great, but I'll give it a shot. Would I rather live in a nice (i.e. relatively indutrializied, democratic) muslim country, like Turkey or Malaysia, over a not so nice christian country, like Rwanda or Liberia? Hell yes. Now you might have noticed those 2 not so nice christian countries have something in common; they're both in Africa, the most exploited and abused continent on the planet. Perhaps you could draw a conclusion from that rather than making an assumption about the world's two largest and most widespread religions.
• True enough. Even if we were to select by countries of a similar region, I would rather live in Malaysia than Philippines. Dhubai is also a pretty ok place. At least two of my relatives have gone there to work for over a year, one of them a woman. They said it was quite cosmopolitan, and other than food, religion was not huge factor in their daily lives there (my relatives, not the native citizens).
• Dhubai is also a pretty ok place. Much beer there?
• Wolof: From what I understand, foreigners (read: whites) have fairly free access to alcohol at hotel bars and places like it that cater to them, though there are nation-wide dry spells from time to time (Ramadan would be one). Had a friend who lived/worked in Ras Al Khaimah for years..
• well there too many other places that are nice eleven (lunar) months out of the (lunar) year.
• Spooky: Tunisia was in Africa, last I checked; officially Muslim, functioning democracy, Jewish representation in parliament. So don't write off Africa. leviathan: Actually, you'll find many of the Scandanavian countries also have significant legal recognition of Christianity, including tax-fundred subsidies and the like for specific churches. Not that the legal framework necessarily means much. Most people in the UK are pretty relaxed about religion (Tony Blair excepted...); the US is, frankly, more backward than some nominally Moslem countries. And would I rather live in Turkey than the Christian parts of Africa? Yes. Would I rather live in Turkey than Tonga or Samoa? Damn straight. Turkey than Brazil? Maybe, maybe not. Of course, while Turkey is predominantly Moslem, it's nominally secular (just like the United States). And frankly, the West is barely secular enough. And the US is leading a charge to pre-Englishtenment times as quick as Ralph Reed's merry men can orchistrate it.
• Dubai is probably the biggest offshore tax(free)-haven in the world, favored by both sinister cracker-ass US multinationals, and the darker skinned violent Islamic Fundies alike. It's probably the one place where these two groups can coexist peacefully. Why? It's the perfect place for book-cooking, laundering your filthy, filthy money, and defrauding anyone you can think of:

  - no taxes of any sort and no tax department - no filing of accounts - no taxation information exchange agreements with other countries - no public record of directors and shareholders - highly flexible and confidential banking system geared to the requirements of high net worth international investors - strong legislation which protects the confidentiality of investors

  And it might be worth noting that "Seattle Catholic is not affiliated with the Archdiocese of Seattle". That Jonathan Tuttle guy is an embarrassment to Christianity. He needs a cockpunch, pronto.
• It's worth reminding ourselves that many of the freedoms women have in the west are despite catholicism not because of it.
• Well, people are voting with their feet and the movement is largely into the Western world, not away from it (exactly the opposite of migration patterns during the Inquisition). On the whole, life is far better for women in the West than in the vast majority of the Islamic world. And for everyone who's singing the praises of Turkey, you might want to think twice; in Dhubai, try to publicly speak against the government the way we routinely do; as to a few of the Christian nations in Africa, they are a nightmare that has little to do with the religion, just as Sudan's treatment of women has little to do with Islam.
• Jesus is coming, SideDish ;)
• Catholicism: Thank God for little boys!
• Tunisia was in Africa, last I checked; officially Muslim, functioning democracy, Jewish representation in parliament. So don't write off Africa. Oh don't worry I'm not. The only reason I didn't mention Egypt or Tunisia is to point out that there's a lot more to Islam than Arabs and Berbers, and as such its a fallacy to finger religion as the root cause for social disorder when there are so many other reasons.