April 29, 2004

• Oh, poop. That last link redone here
• i always try to tip well, especially cabbies. recently a cabbie here in d.c. told me when he gave dan rather a ride (that's a famous TV news anchor, for you overseas monkeys) he only tipped the cabbie... 10 cents! ha!
• Mr. Pink doesn't tip.
• This is the reason you should always tip well: It's also important to note that restaurant servers pay taxes on 8% to 10% of their total receipts, not the actual amount of tips they earn. If you don't tip them, they are actually losing money because they're paying taxes based on the amount of your meal. The management works under the assumption that most people tip 15% to 20%. This makes it easier at tax time, but it's bad for the waiters if they have a lot of customers who don't tip. from the "Who Do You Tip?" link. Good post Fes, these have answered some lingering questions...
• First off, EVERY MAN WOMAN and CHILD should be required to serve food to others for money at least once in their lives. This will instill respect for both sides of the table. Because it can be a terribly demeaning job. Otherwise rational and mostly good people often become drunken with power over their servers. That is why I always START at 20%. If the server is serving me poorly, and I deem it to be caused by and in the server's control (rudeness, inattentive, etc.) I will knock that percentage down as I see fit. If I am being served poorly and it is NOT the server's fault (the kitchen is "in the weeds", the host has over-booked her tables, he/she seems nice but simply having a bad day) then I might over-tip to help her out. I saw the worst of human behavior as I worked my way through school in some "upscale" restaurants. I have a soft spot for the server, and if you've been one, you would too.
• Cow tipping: truth or fiction?
• I'm with Dizzy on this one. I think that everyone should work in the "food service"industry, at least for a bit- it builds character, and compassion. I also lean towards tipping generously, as I know that too many people don't. Also, I tend to be an especially generous tipper at establishments I intend to return to- it's amazing how easily a handful of visits with good tips can make you a valued regular, and the establishment quite accomodating- this goes for restaurants, salons, and any other place where you have an opportunity to acknowledge good service.
• oh, one more thing ALMOST as good as a good tip-- THANK the server and TELL the manager how good the service was.
• "I don't just tip, I overtip. It's my philosophy. It's my philosophy!" Believe it or not, after I watched My Blue Heaven, I began overtipping on everthing - and believe it or not, you hardly notice the extra cash you're giving away.
• RXR, whaddya mean he doesn't tip? [/Pappa Joe]
• Guess what: New Zealanders and Australians are "lousy tippers" because we have this quaint idea - enforced by law - that people actually get paid when they work. We're kind of used to it. Tipping is for exceptional service, not doing your job properly.
• It took me a year before I even realised I was supposed to tip my hairdresser in California. What the hell, don't I give them enough money already? If they want more, they should just charge more, for goodness' sake. I hate tipping, it's a stupid, screwed up system. Restaurant staff should be taxed like anyone else, and paid reasonably, and we wouldn't be required to learn about a ridiculous custom when going to the US in case we come across as stingy. /rant
• rodgerd-- Your employment and wage rules are more humane than in the US-- servers actually make LESS than minimum wage-- the ONLY job classification to my mind that suffers from that stupid rule--and servers here LIVE OFF THE TIPS NOT the PAYCHECK. (I used to hate to wait on Non-domestic customers because we'e get pocket change or less after a $75 meal--it is incumbent on the traveler to know the customs--"When In Rome"-- and although most were invariably pleasant ( I never met a rude person from overseas) i was "stiffed" so many times I'd hide when I saw them!)
• I recently got a restaurant bill where they told you that "Good service is acknowledged by a 15% grtuity and pooled among all staff". I was surprised because I thought that everyone tipped over here. apparently not. Since I'm originally from Europe I still have to remind myself to tip. Calculating the tip is however easy her in Montréal since it's just the same amount as the tax. So the amount is on the sales slip.
• Waiters/Waitresses, bartenders, cab drivers, and pizza delivery guys all get big, generous tips. They work hard for very little money and a generous tip usually gets me better quality service on my next visit. Hairdressers...that's a tricky one. My usual hairdresser is owner of her own shop...so she's not exactly an underpaid employee. I hope she understands that's why I don't tip her.
• important advice when in Canada, from the Australians link : "You should not try to tip the police, especially the Royal Canadian Mountain Police - they will not appreciate it".
• I always tip servers well; not only does it result in good service when you go back, but it can be helpful even if you go someplace only once. Last week I had coffee at the cafe in Bryant Park (behind the NY Public Library); when I was halfway back to the office I realized I'd left something there. I went back and as soon as they saw me they waved me over and got it from behind the bar. If I'd stiffed them, they'd probably have let the park crackhead take it, and I'd have deserved it. You Aussies and Kiwis: tsk tsk! When you get to the afterlife, you're going to have to wait at the end of a lo-o-o-ong line!
• It really, really bugs me that people consider Australians and kiwis bad people for not tipping. I could go on at length with examples of how people from the US ignore or don't learn local custom before travelling to foreign countries. I always tipped my servers in the US, 15% for normal service, 20-25% for extra-good service. I tipped bloody valet parking people, hairdressers, porters, bartenders, and sent a Christmas card to my damn landlord. I still think it's a stupid custom, but I went along with it. I even tipped the staff at my regular coffee shop (in NZ) the other day for putting up with my son's food-throwing. They didn't even have a tip jar, because -- would you believe it?? -- they get paid properly. I understand perfectly why Americans tip, but why the hell doesn't it occur to someone to change the system so they don't have to? And it's nothing to do with ensuring you get good service -- that's not tipping, it's bribery -- because if you get bad service then you should complain. And if you get good service, a word to the manager about the person should suffice. It's not your job to pay their wages. It's the management's.
• (See rodgerd's and tracicle's comments, and then specify the *correct* price for the item or service provided, into which you may factor the provision of a living wage, including *universal* health care. When this bit has been fixed then complain about what stingy bastards people who operate under a different, and to my mind far fairer, system are.)
• I was gonna eat a kiwifruit for dinner, but now I'm NOT.
• We can't really tip in Singapore. The service charge (10%) is mandatory and added into the bill automatically for restaurants. Which is a pain sometimes, if the service is lousy, because the law doesn't allow withdrawal of the service charge if the customer didn't like the service. A woman tried to contest that about two years back and lost her case. Bleh.
• PS
• Oh yeah, Fes, really. I don't know why this particular topic makes me rant... Okay, I do. Thanks. :)
• I could go on at length with examples of how people from the US ignore or don't learn local custom before travelling to foreign countries. *covers ears, runs screaming from the room* seriously, I've witnessed the most appalling and mortifying behavior from my fellow countrymen, to the extent that when I lived in France as a teenager I would actively try to slip under the radar as something, anything, other than American. If the worst thing that people can say about Kiwi tourists is that they don't tip well, hell, you're in good shape! (But seriously, tell your compatriots to tip when they travel in the US, it's good karma.)
• That last link suggested that you should tip 17% ? When did this happen? I always thought it was 15% for normal good service, 10% when it was kind of sucky (forgetting orders, not actually coming back to the table) and 20-25% when they've been really nice. But the thing is - alright, tipping is important because the wages for servers are ridiculously low - but what about the rest of us who have a lower income than the waiters before tip? It's not unknown for me to be counting my money to the exact dollar when trying to get some food out - I'm eating $5 meals and having to throw another $1 on top for tip because it just happens that almost everywhere cheap around here has table service. Of course, someone is probably going to say "Well, if you can't afford the largesse, then you shouldn't eat out" - but doesn't that just make dining the priviledge of the rich? Should everyone else just go hungry until they get home? (Or in my case, eat only chips, since I have no kitchen). Sorry - that got very ranty. But I would say to all ranting servers that they should think about how for some of their customers money is just as much an issue. Those people will often be really nice and undemanding customers who will scrape together 15%, so don't dismiss them because they can't throw on more on top. That said, I am so with the people downunder - servers deserve decent wages (and universal healthcare for all, of course). I've met a lot of waiters that thought the less than minimum wage and tip combo left them on top - but all of them were young students just in for a quick, and in Canada, untaxed - or so it seemed to be when I was working as a cook - buck. The only waitress I knew who had a career serving tables was adamant that she'd rather have decent wages and no tips. And I would rather have that $5+$1 tip meal listed as $6 on the menu - or $7, if that is what it takes.
• I'm an American, and I try not to tip unless either: -I'm on a date and don't feel like explaining that I don't tip on principle, not because I'm a miser. -Or my friends shame me into doing it. Why the hell would I pay anyone just for getting me 1-2 refills of coffee? Give me the damn cup, and show me where the coffee is... I'll do it for free; I'm not bedridden. Or maybe the waitstaff should just frickin do it because that's what they're already paid to do! I don't pay the mail carrier extra for bringing mail to the house; it's already paid for with the stamps I buy and the taxes? I pay. I'm not going to pay someone for already doing their job. If you don't like earning $2/hour, then don't fucking apply for a job that pays $2/hour, genius. Or better yet, unionize yourselves and/or demand that your employers pay a livable wage. But don't assume that I (and every other customers) should take pity on you and supplement your income just because your miser of a boss won't pay a reasonable hourly rate... thus shifting the burden, and stigma, onto the customers. And I resent the stigma. It's total bullshit. I don't mean to pick on just the food delivery; it's same with bathroom attendants. I gotta pay someone to watch me pee, make sure I wash, and hand me a towel? No, I gotta better idea: I pay you nothing, and you get the hell outta the bathroom while I'm pissing, unless you're in line behind me! I go to a restaurant because I want someone else to *cook* some food for me. No, don't get up. I'll grab the plate myself, thanks. I'll even write down my order and send it to the kitchen. I don't need to pay some flaky chick $5 just to be a middleman. I don't go to restaurants because I'm looking for some awkward chitchat, patronizing condescension ("still working on that?"), or any kind of fucked up power relationship / sugar daddy drama. I don't go for the 'service', I go to receive a product: hot food. I've worked in food service, so I know that it sucks. It was an upscale, trendy-ish italian deli/restaurant. so we were paid ~$5.25, which is more than $2, but we didn't get or solicit for tips. I was in college at the time, and I knew that the pay was shitty, but it was a block away from my apartment. And of course I scored all kinds of "free", imported, gourmet Italian shit. So my eight roommates and I ate like kings, although i just barely managed to pay my share of the bills. Nonetheless, there was no way i would've *expected* customers to chip in with monetary donations, unless I did something ridiculously extraordinary like whipping up 5000 cannolis on two hours' notice for the italian businessmen's luncheon. The only gratuities I expected of the customers were: -not being pompous assholes -not making my coworker cry just because she gave you two chunks of feta instead of single-chunk portion of equal size. -not telling me that you would like that with au jus juice. -a little ego-stroking is always nice, so go ahead and ask me to recommend a nice specialty, a quality olive oil, or a decent wine for your chow. conversely, don't pretend you know about the shit if you clearly do not. -not being impatient, especially if we're super busy. -not slowly ordering all kinds of bullshit that takes a long time to make when the place is already packed. -not sending food back for frivolous reasons. if you do, we might "accidently" drop your new food on the ground and put it back on your plate. Or we might spit in it. Or it might be so hot that you burn yourself. Conversely, if you are considerate, you will get the choicest cuts of meat, fresh veggies, and more generous portions. To summarize: Your crappy wage is not my responsibility any more than mine is yours. sorry for ranting. hope it's coherent.
• Wow, it seems like the entire service industry in America is fucked up. Personally, tips weird me out. It's a bit annoying that in the place that I work, the waiting on staff get five quid in tips a night and I, as a barman, am lucky to get a pound or two. What, is my job worth less or something? I think that I agree with Wedge to an extent, though: to me, not being an asshole is much more important than tipping.
• languagehat: No, we'll be going to the heaven for people who construct a society where working in the food industry paya a living wage, and where the Inland Revenue asses your actual income, not some bullshit fantasy formula.
• Wow, Wedge, I'm, ummm, confused. You've worked in food service, and you know how crappy it can be, and you know the icky things that can happen to your food when the server is pissed off, and you don't tip? Do you ever eat at the same place twice?
• What ambrosia said, Wedgie. (interesting to note that all the service workers you mentioned are NOT unionized and will NEVER be unionized because these people (including you and me, for a time) are/were the least powerful/most transient of our workforce, are summarily fired if they even TALK unionizing, and most likely to be explited by the powers-that-be. Most if not all these people are doing the best that they can but cannot find better jobs, so they take foodservice positions. we should HELP these people, not VILIFY them for their poor taste in careers. Youir rant truly left me with a bad taste, or is that because you "accidently" dropped the compassion on the kitchen floor?
• It seems to me that the idea behind tipping was quite different years (many) ago. Tipping was done if someone gave over-the-top service or accomodated patrons in some special way or in any way did something that was above and beyond their normal duties. These days it's expected. While I tip very well, along the lines of how Dizzy tips (although I probably get far more upset at poor service and make sure my tipping communicates what I thought of the service), it bothers me that it's viewed as an obligation. I worked in the industry too, and while tips where nice, I knew that they where based on my performance. My job was to make their meal relaxing, enjoyable, predicting needs. Sometimes that concept gets lost. Some people have the knack and some don't. If I am served by someone who is less than wonderful at their job, I'm NOT going to tip 20%. I will consider circumstances, but it's not really my job. I shouldn't have to worry about what my server is going through. A good server will leave you completely oblivious to the chaos. And if that is an impossibility, make sure that you are not put in a position to be concerned at all about it. So there.
• When I went to America a couple of years back, the thing I was most worried about was tipping - who, where, when, how much. I know how shitty it is working in places where you have to serve the poublic, and I always try my hardest to be polite and friendly and helpful - so the last thing I wanted to do was inadvertantly offend people. Luckily, I was staying with some Americans anyway, so it was all alright.
• Dizzy, ambrosia: Perhaps if you want a more sympathetic view of service workers, you shouldn't play the "Give us money or we'll spit in your food" card. It makes people who swork in restaurants sound like a bunch of shitheads who deserve everything bad that happens to 'em. And a punch in the mouth on the side.
• Wow! I never thought about "shifting the responsibility" before - just went ahead and tipped because I knew that servers were paid next to nothing. Plus, it may give me a frisson of feeling generous and a really good person. But, yeah, I'd rather have the food or services priced to cover a living wage and benefits for the staff. The owners should be concerned about the quality of the service, since, if it's bad, they may lose clients. If I just short the tip, they may never know how bad things are. And, when traveling outside the US, it could keep me from embarrassing myself. My worst tip experience was at a Gibralter hotel. I'd ordered ice from room service and gave the server what I though was a generous Spanish coin, but what was apparently a really miserly British coin. The poor guy was so insulted - after all, he had shown me all kinds of respect, including addressing me as "Mother" (he was Moroccan)- and appeared to be close to tears when he left the room. While I was trying to figure out how to make it right, he called to say that he had made a mistake and that ice cost some outlandish amount. I paid it. I'll continue to tip since the system hasn't changed here, but I do hate to do math after dinner.
• As a college student (my second post in a few minutes that starts that way) I try to make a point of tipping really well, especially for things like pizza delivery, specifically to counteract the idea that college students are shitty tippers. Right around my college the restaurants cater pretty much exclusively to students, so there's no real "student treatment" problem, but (for instance) in the city where my girlfriend goes to school, there are plenty of restaurants which cater to both students and "normal grown-ups" and the way those people that appear to be students are marginalized by the host/waitstaff is annoying, but exists for the real reason that students don't tip well. It never hurts to do something about that preconception, and as f8xmulder said above you hardly notice the small amount of cash that makes a difference disappearing. Plus pizza guys have it hard. (Lastly, anyone who is in any way involved with bringing me a Giordano's stuffed pizza I can't conceive of being anything other than eternally grateful to.)
• rodgerd; YOUR ASSERTION IS MISTAKEN: Please review this thread-- I've NEVER advocated or threatened to adulterate food. I find such behavior heinous, and to ease your mind, strictly anecdotal. I WOULD NEVER SPIT IN ANYONE'S FOOD. Again--- my basic point is that there seems to be a sub rosa hostility between the server and the served. WHY?
• rodgerd, I think Dizzy was just stating that it is a common...uh...phenomenon where food is tampered with by the serving staff when they encounter nasty customers. I've never done it myself, but I've heard old-timers when I was working as a waitress talk about wiping steaks in the sink or spitting into the sauce, etc... I think the moral is that service staff are humans too and will find means of retaliation against people who treat them like dirt. As for tipping, I really have very little experience with it. As a general rule, I don't tip unless the service really was excellent, since I have to pay the 10% anyway.
• dizzy, ambrosia- despite the angry tone of my post, i direct my frustration only at the practice of tipping itself. i am actually a very gracious customer. only after i worked in food service did i understand the importance of being polite, gracious, pleasant, and empathetic. but if tipping has become mandatory charity, then i would like to at least deduct it from my taxes or something. i mean, who do i look like... Thurston Howell III? c'mon, i'm poor, too! you think these student loans are gonna pay for themselves? though, now that i think about it, when i was in school, we used to invite the pizzaguys inside to smoke weed with us, in lieu of a monetary gratuity. and *none* of them ever refused. different tokes for different folks, i guess?
• that was a gracious reply, wedge-- please forgive my shouting. I guess it all boils down to: we are ALL working hard for the money, we ALL need more of it, some of us are paid according to especially unfair and archaic rules that burden both the server and the served. ps: (I'm still fascinated by how, deep down, there seems to be a diametrically oppositional conflict between server and served: *Server knows where food has been--server in control of food, but must TRUST served for adequate payment. *Served fearful that WHAT HE PUTS IN HIS BODY may be poisoned, served in control of server financially, must TRUST his money will insure safety of edibles(?)) Is there a dissertation topic somewhere in here?
• Whatever you do, just don't order the clam chowder.
• I'd skip the pickles, too. That "brine" they come in can hide any number of, ah, contaminants.