April 20, 2004
What Makes An American
The Atlantic opens the vaults and pulls out this piece from the late 1930's. In it, Frenchman Raoul de Roussy de Sales follows in the footsteps of Alexis de Tocqueville and attempts to define what it is to be American.
Apparently we don't trust Europe, don't mind when our politicians mangle the language, and are obsessed with our founders. Conservative or liberal, this piece should drop your jaw a few times at how little we Yanks have changed.
-
The MoFi front page just answered "What Makes An American" for me: Q.E.D.
-
( goetter.
-
Well, yes, we USAns are still pretty fundamentalist from a political viewpoint. On the other hand, in spite the availability of other cultures which had been here for thousands of years, and which we trashed, we're pretty new in comparison to the European society we tried to leave behind. Give us another 2 or 3 thousand years and, maybe, we'll finally become more able to deal with differences outside our borders. You know, the Greeks and Romans, which were ancient examples of similar hubris, were pretty sure they had the right take on how things should be when they were young. I don't think we've been as rigorous in enforcing our beliefs, for the most part, as they were. A little Spanish-American War here, a little Monroe Doctrine there, but I think we've had enough to deal with, taking over our own sub-continent, to keep us from extending our "empire" too far abroad. Well, till Iraq. I still don't understand that one.
-
what makes an american do what?
-
path: Never heard of, oh, the Phillipines? Failed to notice American Samoa and Guam?
-
/me opens door a crack, waves path in
-
Mark Twain had some things to say about the Phillipines.
-
Phillipines were part of the Spanish American War trophies, as far as I recall. And, we gave 'em back. Look, I'm not excusing all that, just saying that ws've got a way to go before we grow up.
-
Ooh, idn't dat tweet? A whole thread about Americans, and on teh Internet and all? /facetious
-
We had a thread that turned into about Australia :) Next up: Luxembourg!
-
great Elvis Costello song.
-
Wolof: The article was largely about nationalism, American in particular, so, I am not surprised to be discussing it. Path: You are right that the
-
What struck me most was the conclusion: ...They will be glorified as representing the true course of civilization for the twentieth century, and the American will find himself in the curious position of being isolated, not because he wants to be, but because he will be the last representative of a backward type of humanity that will appear completely out of step with this adventurous Europe that may be emerging under our eyes now. America, which we see clinging so passionately to the political and moral concepts of the nineteenth and even of the eighteenth century, will find itself in an even stronger opposition to Europe than it is now.
The question is, however, how much longer can the American maintain the posture of a man who stands on tiptoe on the ground because he feels it is his destiny to keep his head above the clouds? These words, praising Europe's brave new path, were written in 1939. I'm not saying that America is right now because it was right then, but that closing sent a chill down my spine. The political philosophies of the 20th century were murderous and while it's unfashionable to praise the Enlightenment, it stuns and saddens me that respect for classical liberalism has all but disappeared. -
See, it's sentances like "the true course of civilization" that get me down. Whatever happened to infinite diversity in infinite combinations? Maybe if we all lived a little more like Vulcans, the world would be a bit happier. /yes, I know that was pretty much an oxy moron, as far as thoughts go - but still, a little more Vulcanality around this planet wouldn't hurt. Especially the non-violence stuff. Less the lack of sex-life. I'm a wanna be historian - and I'll just say: No one is ever on the "true course of civilization" or history because there is none - just at the moment you think your society has it all set, hordes of barbarians come riding down off the steppe, or from Germany, or on boats flying the Union Jack. Or maybe you just implode from eating too much lead. And some other guys get powerful. Stuff happens, time goes on, we call it history (this is what I call the very theoretical approach). In the meantime, lets try to keep the killing and suffering to a minimum, and people won't hate us in the future. Or if they do, it won't be (entirely) our fault. Oh, dang - someone mentioned history and I just had to comment. Now I have to go read the article and say something somewhat intelligent.
-
Sorry - definately should have read the article. What I said about history still stands as a general principle (there is no pre-ordained pattern of human destiny) but I misinterepreted the quote. Instead, it is a warning - that if ultra-nationalism and fascism triumphed, they would be the new power, define themsleves as being in the right and take over. Which would be very scary. This is a great article - and yet, so good it is impossible to respond to well. I don't know that I agree with everything (I feel like I have been raised in a very different world view, with less emphasis on liberalism as the end all and be all of human potential, though it is generally a nice thing, when paired with compassion and community) - but it is a such a complex and interesting article that there is too much to respond to on a simple web forum. So I will start with the basic thing that struck me - in talking about nationhood and self identity, there is the habit to always compare and contrast America with Europe. Which maybe makes sense considering America's historical relationships, and the habit of everyone to only pay attention to a) themselves and b) anyone they percieve as greater or a threat in the heirarchy of world influence. (Most Canadians wouldn't be able to find NZ on a map except for the fact that it is surrounded by water - and even then are shockingly ignorant - please don't hit me if I admit I used to think it was a province of Australia - or that Australia had provinces. I live in eternal shame and self-abdegnation). [contiued next comment - sorry!]
-
But if I were trying to understand its development, as a former European colony with an aboriginal minority and a history of diverse European settlement and now international migration, my thoughts immediately go to what I think of by the shorthand of the other "settler colonies" - Canada, Australia and New Zealand. (Knew I could fit them in - and any other to add to my Anglo-centric list?). Though they all have different histories, they are more like each other, and like the US, than anywhere else on Earth. And yet they seem to have very different concepts of what makes a nation. I was struck by this comment - Now, being as I am in a liberal American graduate school, I am constantly surrounded by Americans criticising America and American culture (even as they glorify it with their obsessive study of it), so I can hardly believe Americans don't question their own path. But it is interesting that it has entered the political vocabulatry that to do so is "un American". "UnBritish" or "UnFrench" would sound just silly - "UnCanadian" sounds like some kind of colourless, lime flavoured beer. Which makes me think about how "being American" has been constructed versus being Canadian, or Australian or New Zealander (all of which have had to create national identities within the same period, though generally a little later) - none of which seems to have such an emphasis on politics at the heart of the nation-identity. (Unless you could making fun of politicians, which is a national religion north of the border). Of course, there are also the nations of Meso and South America, which have their own unique history and idenity-formation. I know little of this (and would love to be more informed/corrected), but I gather that Mexico and other countries have integrated more of their aboriginal history into their own national identity. How do debates about nation-identity go there?