April 19, 2004

• My enjoyment was lessened by the constant fear that Tarentino might try to act in his own movie. Brilliant filmmaker or no, he's not a good actor.
• My wife didn't like the dialog too much. ... I had to pluck out her eye. You know, maybe it was, as you say, more talky. But it was also more kick-assy. The fight choreography was better, and the fact that the fights were all one-on-one means that the camera could focus more on details rather than panning back to show you a whole scad of people getting mowed down. Gordon Liu was the man, and Bill was utterly ruthless. I liked the pacing, which seemed just right. The characters, although archetypes, were never really stereotypical in their dialog. What I did not like -- walking in on Bud through the front door. Deedee not waking up after hearing the TV got shot to shit. The opening monologue.
• Haven't seen it yet, can't wait. LLLLLOOOOOVVVVVEEEEDDDDDD the first one and will add it to my DVD collection ASAP. Huge Tarantino fan.
• oh, and can we, as the internet, agree to stop using -- and this is no knock on you, Sully, please realize -- stupid shit like SPOILERS INSIDE? If we're gonna talk about a movie, we should realize that, well, we're gonna talk about a movie, and maybe the plot will be part of our discussion.
• I found Michael Madson's character interesting in the fact this (used to be) a world class killer takes shit from people that he could take out in two seconds. Some people thought the titty bar scene should of been cut. I thought it was a nice touch on how this guy has gone downhill. What I did not like -- walking in on Bud through the front door. Deedee not waking up after hearing the TV got shot to shit. Diito, I think Tarantino wanted to tie up some loose ends so he did a bs job on logic. It seemed convenient that Bud and Elle both got killed in the same trailer. It was as logic defying as the house of blue leaves. I was thinking, why doesn't someone just shoot the Bride.
• They do seem to be two very different films. I enjoyed them both very much. I'm quite looking forward to the DVD release of both films cut back together the way Tarantino had originally intended. I agree that the intimacy of the one-on-one fights felt better, although I loved the Crazy 88 fight scene of the first. As far as Budd is concerned. He'd had the chance to prepare for Beatrix. He knew she was coming to get him. Perhaps he should have been leery of Elle, but a million dollars would pre-occupy my thoughts, so I can suspend that disbelief. Besides, the payoff for that supension was one of the best/funniest sequences of the film. Every time Elle tried to unsheath the sword and hit a wall or a ceiling I was crying from laughter.
• I heard he was dying to play the master (Pai Lin, I think; the bearded guy), drivingmenuts, and I'm very, very glad someone stopped him. I'm in the (probably) unusual position of having seen Volume 2 but not Volume 1. I'll get to that in the next few days, I guess -- I didn't want to really like the first half and spend months waiting to finish the story. I DID mean to rent/download part 1 before I went to the theater, but whatever. I still thought it was fantastic. Sullivan, I thought it was just one snake. And I'm not sure I buy Bud's demise either, but I'm not sure we were supposed to; the plot kept switching back and forth from buyable to silly pastiche without warning, and I liked that (disclaimer: I've taken too many university film courses to be able to talk about a movie like a human being, and it's probably going to get obvious right about now. Sorry). Half the movie clung to the tradition of well-made American action films -- the way a character is defeated is shocking and (for lack of a better word) totally awesome, but it's made believable for a skeptical audience. The rest played with the tradition of Hong-Kong action movies, which are, basically, more cartoonish, but all the better for it -- the beard-stroking, for instance, and the plucking-out-of-the-eyeball (which kicked SO much ass, but wasn't quite "believable" per se). The only thing that really bugged me was Uma's hair, and the fact that it seemed to have the power to become longer or shorter at will. But I'm a girl, and I notice things like that. I still don't know if Tarantino did it on purpose. Surely he wouldn't just let that go. I could go on, but I'll stop rambling now.
• Madson and Hannah did have great death scenes. Tarantino (who likes to like out scenes to his actors) was probably rolling all over that trailer to show them how he wanted them to die. As for Elle, I would say she probaby died. Unless she found a cellphone to call 911, she would probably bleed to death. She isn't going to get help in the middle of the desert.
• The only thing that really bugged me was Uma's hair, and the fact that it seemed to have the power to become longer or shorter at will. The movie took an entire year to film. I heard Uma got hurt and they stopped production. As a guy, Uma has totally lost her Dangerous Liaisons hotness. That movie is a freeze frame classic.
• baby : did you notice the camera zooms in the pai lum flashbacks? the way they would zoom just a little too far, then focus back in? or how they'd show a character punching (or shooting) through something and the camera would zoom on that character? total 70s kung fu love. And the orchestra flourish as the bride delivered the five point technique to Bill. Awesome. The score was just as well executed as anything else in the movie.
• The movie took an entire year to film. But very few experienced directors (and makeup people) are willing to let things like that go, when it's noticeable enough to screw with the film's continuity.
• I heard Uma got hurt and they stopped production. If by hurt you mean pregnant
• Oh, and the camera zooms and score were terrific, boo_radley (and for the record, the opening monologue bugged me, too -- I died a little inside when she actually said "I am gonna Kill Bill." But it was okay).
• Trivia Kevin Costner was also considered for the title role of "Bill", but he turned it down to do Open Range (2003) instead. I'm glad Costner made the right decision for his career.
• babywannasofa - I have to disagree about the continuity issues and the director's notice of them. It's also not the job of a makep person to work on continuity. Things like this simply aren't noticed until editing. When films took a month or less to film it was much easier, but now the average shoot is months long.
• I have to disagree back at you (really, it was TOO obvious to go unnoticed), IgnorantSlut, but I'll let it go. I'm downloading Part 1 now. I can't wait.
• Agree with the above comments about Bud. I wanted to see more backstory on the characters, to see why they ended up as they were. Quentin and Harvey Weinstein may have gotten a bit carried away here. I enjoyed both films, but an decent editor could take these two good films, cut out a bunch of Quentin's fetishes, (another shot of Uma's feet, anyone?) and make one totally kick-ass 150 minute masterpiece. Anyway, I look forward to seeing what Quentin will do next. Perhaps something with more humanity like Jackie Brown... that would be really swell.
• 'Jackie Brown' was one of my least favorites. But still good. Kevin Costner was also considered for the title role of "Bill", but he turned it down to do Open Range (2003) instead. I'm glad Costner made the right decision for his career. I'm glad Costner made the right decision for 'Kill Bill', I can't even imagine it and don't want to.
• babywannasofa - we'll agree to disagree on this front. But I just thought of one more thing that would contribute to the continity issues and confusion: the story unfolded in non-chronological order. But I too digress.
• Vol 1 was my favorite movie last year, and I love Vol 2 even more. My love for them is of the fanboy kind, irrational and intense. Vol 2 is predictable. Budd's submission to people he can easily kill is one of the most popular/effective cliché in anime/manga (eg: Rurouni Kenshin) and wuxia novels. When Budd told Bill he had pawned his sword, I knew he would be the one to beat the Bride and he would do it with a gun. Similarly, as soon as Bill mentioned the Five Point Exploding Heart Technique to the Bride in the flashback, I knew she would beat him with exactly that technique in the climax. Also, guessed that the Bride would peck out Elle’s good eye when Elle boasted about killing Pai Mei, and saw the punching-through-coffin coming miles away. The predictability is what I love the most about Vol 2. I firmly believe that the movie's primary function is entertainment, not art. Nothing entertains me more than stuff tailor-made to satisfy my fanboy obsessions, and nothing satisfies fanboys more than a series of well-executed fandom clichés that let them guess what would happen but not how *cool* it would be. Tarantino and many others (eg: Joss Whedon) understand the power of rewarding fen for being fen. why doesn't someone just shoot the Bride Most of Buffy’s opponents ignored the wonders of firearms too. It's a wuxia (martial-art hero) thing. Forget the guns for the most part, or martial arts simply can't be very heroic. Especially not in America, the land of the Second Amendment.
• Plot inconsistencies aren't a problem. One major part of Kill Bill is kung fu spoofs. Logic doesn't seem to play to heavily in these movies so why should it in kill bill? We might as well criticize Pei Mei for blurting out american female stereotypes. This isn't a movie about reality. It's a pastiche.
• I'm glad Costner made the right decision for his career. Don't worry sullivan, I think the star of 'the postman' is more than capable of choosing worthy movies.
• Woohoo! Thanks, fellow Monkeys! I was just waiting for this thread -- the wife & I fired up the DVD this afternoon to wath Vol 1, and then headed to the theatre for Vol 2. Here's some of what I wrote on my site: "Kill Bill Volume 2". Very, very good. Definitely a different movie than KBv1. As noted in many reviews, this one is much more "talky" - which is mostly a good thing. Less carnage - but that's not saying much, eh? Everything is explained in this one. Carradine is wonderful in this role, and he does indeed come across as "worthy," somehow, of all of the attention that he has garnered from The Bride and the DiVAS. Elle Driver - Darryl Hannah has finally acted in a role that I find interesting. And the piano player - Sam Jackson! The new character, Pai Mei -- his character rises above cliche. As I said, this movie is quite different than Volume 1: scenery, pacing, dialogue, music - it's all unique to this movie, and yet it is a fine continuation of Volume 2. Uma Thurman deserves some sort of special recognition for her work in these two movies - the things she does, and the things that are done to her, are probably unique in movie history. My initial reaction: KBv1 gets four stars (duh), and KBv2 gets three & one-half stars.
• Has anyone else heard that Tarantino may continue this with the children of the characters in KB?
• Darshon - I heard that it was going to be an anime prequel. Also - don't forget the Deadly Viper Dispatch game.
• Ah, that's right. Thanks, IS.!
• Just dropping by to say two things: one, i'm not reading this thread as spoilers are the work of the devil and two: I'll see this damn thing when they're both out on dvd. This splitting one movie into multiple parts S. U. C. K. S. and I'm not supporting it. oh and here's a neat link that may or may not already have been seen on here: Kill em all
• Sorry, Didn't like it as much as I wanted to. The talkiness was too self-conscious and rather irritating. Most of the part two stuff was fluff-- and the end was pretty anticlimatic. You call that an exploding heart??? There was too much Bill in part two-- he just ended up being a real mundane guy. I thought the toilet gag was great.
• Forget the guns for the most part, or martial arts simply can't be very heroic. Have you seen Equilibrium?
• Sullivan: I didn't buy the way Bud died. He's smart enough to beat the Bride, but he gets suckered by Elle Driver with a briefcase full of black mambo snakes. Sorry, I don't buy it. Budd was drunk, as evidenced by his sloppy margarita-pouring. And it was one snake, in a suitcase full of money. IgnorantSlut: Things like this simply aren't noticed until editing. Script supervisors have lost their jobs over less. But I think it has more to do with the non-chronological order of scenes Nim: You call that an exploding heart??? Did you want the heart to burst out of the body?? That bit was actually realistic. I loved KBV2, almost as much as I loved V1. It was a spaghetti western with martial arts, kick-ass women and snappy dialogue; everything I love all rolled into one. That said, Tarantino could definitely have cut quite a bit of dialogue from it. It wasn't nearly as tight as V1, and that could have had some fat trimmed as well. Unfortunately, Tarantino has a huge ego and thinks all his dialogue is gold. That's why KB had to be split in two. I love his films, but he's gotta reign himself in a bit, ego-wise. And I didn't mind the opening monologue too much; it had camp value.
• splitting it didn't hurt at all forkclove. If I were you i'd go rent hte first one then go to a theater and see the second. at 2 hours each, I don't think there was any other way to release it.
• It was so tempting, and so crass, to release part 1 on DVD right before 2 came out in the theaters. Obviously the right decision... for their wallets. Part 1 I thought stood alone better than 2 did, but 2 was just as satisfying, and I think the two puzzle pieces will fit together as a unit quite nicely. I will hunt Tarentino down and he will swim with the fishes if he makes a sequel of any kind in the next 10 years! After that, I'll probably cry out in anticipation, but that's it. :)