November 21, 2008

• Being of a family that never had turkey but a nice and sensible cloved-ham, I can be of no assistance whatsoever. But I do wish you every success with your future endeavours.
• I follow The Joy of Cooking instructions for roasting. Works every time. Don't cover the bird or use roasting bags or foil or any of that, or your meat will taste steamed instead of roasted. I just baste it on a regular basis, and it doesn't get dry. I also brush the bird with melted butter at the start to help seal in all the juices. I don't brine my birds, way too much work and I don't see any advantage to it anyways. The stuffing I make is a family recipe (one of the few that I am bound by Mother Fimbulvetr not to reveal) but it is a well-seasoned bread stuffing that involves mushrooms, onion, and celery (these have to be pan fried in butter first).
• I'm not planning to brine, however I am leaning in the direction of that old chef's trick of salting the meat a day or two early and wrapping it in plastic to help season and tenderize the meat. I don't have The Joy of Cooking, unfortunately. I might check the library, though.
• How do I keep the breast meat from getting too dry? Ahh, the age-old question... An easy method that seems to yield good results: seal your bird in an oversize packet of aluminum foil to "lock in" the mositure during normal cooking. To brown the bird, unwrap it for the last 30 minutes of cooking and roast at a high temperature (500 F), while basting with butter every 5 minutes - this effectively kills the any taste of being "steamed", and renders a very juicy breast meat. Ahhh, I can smell it already!
• Get some kosher salt to season that baby too... inside and out. Work it!
• It's really hard to mess up. The basic stick-it-into-350F-oven- for-20minutes-per-pound-and-completely-ignore-it-otherwise technique produces a fine roast. Embellishments like brining vs. not brining, on a rack or on the bottom of the pan, basting or not, cooking upside-down for the first half, etc, are fun to think about but are mostly based on conjecture and never seem to have much of an effect on the end product. "Heritage" means you're getting a guy who was not bred to have a freakish breast-to-body ratio, lived a somewhat pleasant life, ate reasonable food, hasn't been injected with salt water. Which means no matter what you do it's going to come out a little drier and tougher than you might be used to. But much tastier. But there are two things which absolutely make a huge difference: stuffing and gravy. The NY Times had an overly complexified recipe a couple of days ago but gets the basics down pretty well. Do not neglect the gravy step -- a dry turkey is a very sad turkey. Stuffing is where you get to have fun. My top-sekrit family recipe goes something like the following, roughly: take an onion and a stalk of celery. Chop 'em up. Fry with 2-4 tablespoons of butter for a few minutes. Add a pound or so of good italian pork sausage removed from its skin. Cook until mostly done. Meanwhile, you've roasted and shelled (or easier, bought a jar of pre-shelled) chestnuts. Chop them coarsely and add to the sausage and onion. If it looks like you have enough, spoon it all into the bird just before it goes into the oven. If it's not, tear up some chunks of bread for filler and mix it in. The more bread you use, the more the stuffing will resemble father-in-law's prejudices and the more likely he will be to try some. Don't drain the sausage grease; it's eventually going to end up in the gravy.
• No foil! Proper buttering and basting is all you need! I've never had a dry turkey usting this method! This is one of the age old turkey-cooking debates . . . don't expect any concensus on wrapping/not wrapping . . . my mom swears by those turkey roasting bags and SMT's method. It does work quite well, but I'm a purist, and prefer the flavour (especially of the skin) of my method better.
• Agreed on the stuffing. A too-dry stuffing is a sure-fire way to end up with a dry turkey.
• Which means no matter what you do it's going to come out a little drier and tougher than you might be used to. But much tastier. As I said, we get ethically farmed chickens from them as well, so we're used to this phenomenon. It hasn't been a huge difference from the store-bought chicken we usually get, even if it is a bit noticeable. My parents, however, are lifelong Butterball frankenturkey eaters, and I'm a little nervous about their reaction. Mom sounded a bit pensive on the phone when the subject came up. A too-dry stuffing is a sure-fire way to end up with a dry turkey. I'm leaning toward cooking the stuffing outside the bird, not in. Likely the bird will be left to my care, and mom will at least oversee the preparation of everything else. I'm inclined to follow this convention, if only to minimize the risk of culinary disorientation on my father's part. I figure the more stuff on his plate that's made exactly the same way he's always had it every year, the happier he'll be, and a box of Stove Top cooked outside the bird is how he's always had it. More familiar and comforting that way, which I'm fine with. I'm blessed with a wife who if anything pushes me to experiment more in the kitchen, an influence that has made me a better cook than I'd otherwise be, so I get to satisfy my creative urges enough in my own kitchen.
• I'm blessed with a wife who if anything pushes me to experiment... *arches eyebrow* ...more in the kitchen... *flattens eyebrow*
• My mom does it both ways . . . stuffing inside the bird and outside the bird . . . best of both worlds, and lots more stuffing to go around. Your dad gets the stuffing he is used to, and you get to enjoy the real stuff, cooked inside the bird The Way God Intended It. Maybe dad will give it a try too . . . Hey, there's a reason it's called stuffing!
• This is the definitive instructional video on how to cook a turkey. Monkeyfilter: Lifelong Butterball Frankenturkey Eaters
• My mom does it both ways... *arches eyebrow* ...stuffing inside the bird and outside the bird... *flattens eyebrow*
• You might like the turkey algorithm, and more. And you can always cook an undercooked roast more, but an overcooked roast is a loss. (and yes, I HAVE carved a turkey down to where the breast meat starts to look a little pink and then shoved the rest back in the oven to finish cooking. Cringe all you want.)
• Two bits of advice: Cooking stores sell giant syringes for just this purpose. Get yourself one, fill it full of the cooking oil of your choice, and inject it into the bird in various places. I use olive oil, personally. Learn from my mistake from my first turkey - if you do decide to put some stuffing inside the bird, be careful not to overstuff. I did, and it expanded, and my turkey came out of the oven looking like it had been raped. It tasted just fine, though. Turkeys are fairly hard to screw up, though. One year my meat thermometer was broken and I didn't realize it - I just couldn't understand why the turkey wasn't reaching the requisite temp. I roasted that sucker for 13 hours. After 13 hours, we said the hell with it, I don't care if we get food poisoning from undercooked fowl, we're taking it out and eating it - and it still tasted pretty good.
• That turkey algorithm is completely bogus. Sure, you probably can cook a two thousand pound turkey in 12.54 hours. But if you get a bigger one, say double the size at 4000 pounds, there's no way it's going to be close to done in 13.68 hours. Especially if it hadn't completely thawed out when you started.
• This swiss turkey looks easy.
• This video helps with high-altitude turkey preparation.
• Feaaar the Godzilturkey!
• OK, sonny-boy, listen to yer GramMa. Sounds like you're going with the fifth commandment--honor thy Father's boring palate. That's a good thing. Dry, lifeless turkey is not. Massage the bird thoroughly, butter and salt well inside and out. Since stuffing is what makes the bird juicy, my suggestion is to very coarsely chop two large onions and 4-5 celery stalks, (for a 12lb bird) then throw those into the cavity along with a third cup of water. Wad up foil and plug the cavity. I would then cover the bird loosely with aluminum foil for at least an hour and a half. After that, pull the foil and begin basting--oil or butter--I prefer butter--every 10 minutes. I'd do that three times, then use your basting tube and suction up those lovely turkey juices and use them. Squirt some into the turkey cavity, and pull the plug at about two to two and a half hours. Ideally, your bird is juicy on the drumsticks and on the breast. Sometimes you have to cheat to obtain this. It shouldn't be as much of a problem with a Heritage bird, but you may have to make little tents of foil over the drumsticks to keep them from drying out. Baste well. Drink some wine. Then baste some more. Pour a little more wine. Do a little basting while you're at it. Drink some wine. Baste. More wine. Daste. Wink some bine. Pour a little wine on the turkey. Sip a little of the drippings to check the flavor. Try to stay sober enough to make the gravy. The big question is the giblets. My giblets are boiled, chopped fine, and the liquid stock and meat goes into GramMa's Magnificent Stuffing. Some folks don't do stuffing, but cook their giblets in the turkey cavity and then fight over the gizzard. (Aside from the fact that we all loooove stuffing made with the giblet meats, the fights over the gizzard and heart got so bloody, I had to stop cooking them separate.) There have been times I've cooked two turkeys, and in that case I make giblet noodles. I will honor you all with my GramMa's homemade noodle recipe. Take one large handful flour. (about a cup) pinch of salt (about a 1/8 tsp) one egg (egg-sized) crack egg into flour add one half eggshell water and one half eggshell oil Mix--dough should be stiff roll out on floured surface, slice into thin strips, then cut into two inch lengths. Allow to dry for several hours. Chop and saute onion and celery. Chop the gizzard, heart, and neck meat small. Mash the liver and stir into stock. Take chopped giblets and vegetables and put into boiling stock. Reduce heat to high simmer, and slowly, slowly, add noodles while stirring gently. After the noodles cook, thicken with roux. Kids LOVE to watch you make noodles without using any measuring utensils except the egg and your hands.
• I do pretty much what GramMa does, except I don't put in any water (though with your bird you might want to do so -- or throw in some chicken or turkey stock), and I use a baking bag. I'll admit it -- I'm a third-generation baking bag user! I've never had a bird done without them, so maybe I don't know what I'm missing, but I've never had a bird turn out badly with one! Last year I did set the oven on fire. Briefly. But it turned out ok.
• THIS
• By no means tracicle's THIS. Look away! Step away! We used to dump the turkey in a bucket of cheap white wine, and inject it with champagne for a day or so prior to cooking. Shooting up a turkey is a blast. Serve amontillado and count on your guests for side dishes.
• My guests taste terrible!
• Rub them in cocoa butter first.
• Actually, you want to cover their elbows and ears with foil, nothing worse than overdone. You want them crispy, not burnt. First baste the guests with gin or scotch--makes it much easier to get them into the oven. Later you can use cocoa butter and turpentine for that piney flavor. It is possible to use their giblets in noodles and gravy, but there's not much neck meat. Served on a large platter, guests make a lovely presentation arse up, decorated with radishes and yams on the side. Of course, anything wrapped in bacon will please.
• My mother told me to eat nothing but apples and walnuts for two weeks before coming over for Thanksgiving, and to not do any walking. She said it was a new fad diet, but now I don't know.
• Follow-up! I picked brains here and elsewhere, and our dear departed Fes has convinced me of his strategy. He passed on a recipe to brine the bird and stuff it with aromatics while cooking. I'm ditching the aromatics out of deference to my father, but Tom "Delicious" Turkey is currently on my front porch in a five-gallon bucket with ice water, vegetable stock, brown sugar and a buttload of kosher salt. I feel like McGuyver. I'll follow up and let you know whether Fes ruined my Thanksgiving.
• Good luck with it! And please say 'hi' to Fes next time you speak to him. He is missed!
• Mmmm ... brown sugar. You can't go wrong with a candied turkey. I'm impressed how over here you seriously consider replacing your wife's morning coffee with weasel shit but you won't even think of tossing a sprig of thyme into your dad's roast turkey ... :) If you really get your McGuyver on, and you've got one of those kettle grill things, consider cooking it outside: blah and blah.
• That's BIRD shit, not weasel. The weasel shit I expressly stated is inferior to the bird shit. I think we both know I just pwned you.
• FES! Give him my best.
• Monkeyfilter: I think we both know I just pwned you.
• You better post the results of this saga.
• You and queso may send me an internet punch if I do not share.
• You realise it's just a big chicken, right? Stick it in the oven, crack open a tinny or four, then fuss over your roast potatoes. THAT's where the mad skillz are required.
• I was assisting with a kids' Thanksgiving play when this movie came out. I wish we could have gotten that turkey costume.
• Wow...cooking and fashion. That Fes is one suave motherfucker.
• Tomorrow speedlime and I will be roasting a happy free-range turkey (starting with the breast downwards then turning; lots of butter under the breast skin and smeared on top of all the other skin). Today we have achieved: - cranberry sauce - vegetarian stuffing (cornbread, chestnuts, mushrooms, onions, celery, apple and tangerine chunks, chipotles in adobo) - carnivorous stuffing (same as the veg stuffing but with chorizo instead of chipotles) - cranberry-apricot-Amaretto tarte (a speedlime special) - Spiced pumpkin cheesecake Going to bed now. Whew.
• I looked at sausagemeat last night in Sainsbury's. Well, it's a start.
• HOW'S IT GOING? ARE YOU UP AND COOKING YET???
• Pallas, say hello to Speedy for me!! HAPPY THANKSGIVING you sick, turkey-eating fucks! *waits for the lazy Mrs. SMT to wake up so we can get to the dad's house and enjoy some lovely turkey basting aroma*
• Oh yeah, sorry... Hi PA and Speedy. My love for you both grows more twisted every day. KTNXBY
• A Thansgiving Prayer, courtesy of Uncle Bill Burroughs. Happy Thanksgiving, every one of us!
• (P.S. -- I'm gonna need "You always were a headache and / you always were a bore" as my epitaph, so if one of you could get that carved on my gravestone after I kick it, it'd be greatly appreciated KTHXBY.)
• I could crayon it onto an old cereal packet, if that helps? Yeah, Happy Thanksgiving, 'merkins. I've got a full month to wait before I get a good gobble. I have got a litre bottle of Bailieys in my draw here at work though (if it comes home it gets drunk, so it satys here till tree goes up).
• Sounds like your office is your home away from home.
• Yes, bottle of Bailieys and jar of pasta sauce.
• Up and cooking. The bird's boob-side-down in the roaster and will flip in about an hour. Parents are looking at me funny. I WILL ROCK THEIR WORLDS WITH MY POULTRY.
• Good luck with the flip. Wear a pinny.
• Holy crap, Kit, we're in the same country! Let's make out or something, and make Cappy cry. Pallas Athena doesn't know I'm posting on her account.... muaaa haa haa haa!!!
• Speedy? Is that you? And when can we make out?
• HOLEE SHIT ITS A SPEEDY
• Yes, that was a stealthy Speedlime. She's just gone out to "do some shopping." I suspect this means she has boarded the Makeout Express and is heading in your direction at roughly the speed of sound. Meanwhile, back on-topic, I'm roasting a bunch of pumpkin halves with vegetarian stuffing in them. Mmmmmstuffing. Later there will be toasted pumpkin seeds. No one wants to make out with me? I brought stuffing and everything.
• No, no, baby -- I've brought the stuffing...
• Stuffing, you say? *Combs eye-brows*
• Woohoo! Stuffing par-tay!! Gravy, anyone?
• Why, yes, it is a me! And is it hot in here, or did Kit just comb his eyebrows? Wow, that made no sense at all. I think I'm disoriented by stuffing fumes. PA makes some serious stuffing-- it takes three days of manual labor before you even get to start thinking about sticking it into embarrassing parts of the turkey. Now, about this Makeout Express... where does one purchase tickets? Does it leave from Paddington, like the Heathrow Express? And where did I leave my cherry-flavored lip gloss? Also, hi SMT! And everyone else!
• Pallas Athena is fisting the turkey. I have pictures. She thinks telling me to fuck off will stop me posting them. HA. HA. HA.
• The phrase "buttery turkey wang" has just been used.
• MonkeyFilter: I WILL ROCK THEIR WORLDS WITH MY POULTRY. Or at least make the kitchen table wobble. Happy Thanksgiving, you Monkeys. Try to keep the gravy where it belongs, please. And use your napkins.
• BURRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRP fart.
• I didn't make my traditional crabnerry (not a typo; that's how I say it) chutney this year, but I had a second glass of wine so it's all good. Now, who's making out with the turkey again?
• I'm in fucking Canada. I had a bologna sandwich.
• Yeah well I'm having sushi for lunch so TAKE THAT. *cries*
• Mmmmmmm, one last piece of punkin pie made by the master, Mr. BlueHorse. *holds nose* Somebody put Ralph out in the backyard, please.
• Mmmm...turkey fisting... Pix plz.
• Dangit, I was GOING to post that pic but PA's computer won't talk to my phone. Also I pretty much blew up her kitchen attempting to make gravy (seriously, there were gouts of flame) so now the complicated diplomacy of friendship demands that I not embarrass her in public for at least a week or two.
• Seriously. It was like Bikini Gravy Atoll in there. mct, how did your turkey go over?
• Where you both perhaps showered in gravy? Nay, smeared in it? Perhaps forcing you to disrobe? Hmm?
• Dude, why do you THINK she called it Gravy Bikini Atoll? BUT ENOUGH ABOUT US. How was everyone else's turkey day?
• *monocle pops*
• 
• *munches on apple cream pie, slurps coffee* So, tell. How'd that turkey come out? Was Pater most impressed?
• Turkey went over very well, thanks. The white meat came out juicier than I usually see at Thanksgiving tables, but not as juicy as I'd like. Dark meat was awesome. My only complaint was we used a roaster instead of the oven, which didn't do as good a job of browning the skin as I'd have liked (it was pretty uneven), but that was at Mom's request so she'd have enough oven room to bake a bunch of other side dishes. Made sense, but I'm convinced it would have come out better in an oven. Also, Mom's a bit paranoid about cooking poultry, so it was cooked probably a full half hour longer than I would have done, which might account for some of the dryness. But overall the brining worked out great, I think. I'm really happy with the results. Also, I bought a Macbook today on Amazon. It's a Thanksgiving miracle!
• TUM, that's just gone on my LoveFilm list!
• Sweet sufferin' Jeebus on a lightly-toasted baguette, TUM, that is the COOLEST THING I HAVE EVER SEEN. I hereby give up my pursuit of the Cap'n. You aren't single, by any chance? (also, glad your turkey came out well, mct! Ours did too, despite a disturbing amount of smoke in the kitchen)
• Accolades to mct for a successful turkey and a pleased family! Loud applause and a carton of buttery popcorn to TUM (with gravy of course.) [Speedy: Of TUM's marital status I know nothing, but it is worth noting that she is a Lady.]
• Spinster of the parish. But I've got a dance card and a pencil. *wink wink*
• 
• i seriously ♥ you TUM.
• Well, this wasn't exactly how I had envisioned the GOBBLE thread winding down! TUM, you are a genius... I already knew that, but I had to say it again.
• For anyone who's curious - turkey risotto is the bomb. We had a Thanksgiving dinner here in Adelaide, and the leftover turkey went in the stock pot, got stocked and then made into some righteously delicious italian rice dish thingy.
• ooOOoo, polychrome - I was just thinking about doing that. With maybe a spot of roast pumpkin and a few cranberries. What else went into yours?
• My Italian aunt used to put leftover turkey in her red sauce.
• Soup's on!
• Turkey is the new milk bottle.
• *cracks knuckles* OK then - my risotto recipe is....embarassingly simple. You need 1 quantity hot stock (just simmering is good). It varies, but I find I use about 2 litres per cup of rice. Arborio rice - 1 cup of dry rice for two people is about right, but forget about leftovers. Half an onion (I use white onion). Also, I substituted some leftover roasted garlic instead this time around, and it was beautiful and intense. White wine - I go with the same amount as the rice ie cup for cup. Butter. (you need this twice, once at the start for about 2 tablespoons and once at the end, about a quarter cup) Grated Parmesan cheese - you want a nice nutty one, not sour. To cook - Gently fry the finely chopped onion (you don't need to be too picky, but I like the texture you get at the end from finely chopped...) in 2 tablespoons of the butter until it is see through and slightly golden. Add the rice, and fry (not too hot - I damned near made popcorn once, and you don't want that!) for a minute or two, stirring occasionally. Then add the white wine. Things should start simmering at this point. Let the wine cook into the rice, then add a ladle or two of stock. Stirring occasionally, add fresh stock as needed to just keep things soupy. I find that it takes 15 to 20 minutes (depending on the rice brand) for the rice to cook to where I want it. Once the rice is cooked, let the pot cook down to the risotto consistency you want, then add butter and a generous amount of grated parmesan cheese. Stir vigorously to melt butter and cheese, mix everything up. And that's it. I put out more cheese and butter for people to add as they like. I've found that when I taste it as it's cooking I want a bit more salt but I've learned to hold off, since the parmesan and butter bring things back into balance nicely.
• Thanks, polychrome! I hope mine comes out as well. That roasted garlic is a genius scheme.
• *blush* - let me know how it goes. Using cranberries sounded like an interesting twist.
• You'll all be pleased to know that my 'quiet Christmas at home' is now turning into cooking for nine. Oh, and step-father fisto isn't too hot on turkey. So I'll have to cook beef as well. I don't have enough shelves in my oven for turkey, beef, roast potatoes, tiny sausages wrapped in bacon, stuffing and yorks. I'll be pissed by 11am.
• My Italian aunt used to put leftover turkey in her red sauce. Is that some kind of euphemism? No, don't tell me. I'd rather just believe.
• Yeah, that entire sentence had me referencing urbandictionary.com to no avail.
• turkey, beef, roast potatoes, tiny sausages wrapped in bacon, stuffing and yorks You forgot the beets.
• Christmas day is a beet-free zone, in respect to Teh babeh Jebus.
• Oh, BTW, I'm actually using this thread as a cry for help, so feel free to chip in!
• Monkeyfilter: I'm actually using this as a cry for help
• Enh, mix it up a bit and give everybody beef. Make a nice pot roast with potatoes, whole onions, lovely fresh carrots, and celery. It makes a really cheery display at the center of the table, and it's basically a stick-it-in-the-oven-til-it's-done sort of thing.
• *refrains from making joke about 'hot beef injection'*
• *doesn't refrain from noting that kitfisto wraps his tiny sausage in bacon.
• If you do make a roast, and there are children around, be sure to refer to it as reindeer. Cooking rabbit at Easter is also fun.
• Enh, mix it up a bit and give everybody beef. Madam, I have been pursuing this goal since high school, and may I say, it is utterly unattainable.
• NO TURKEY AT CHRISTMAS!!!??? NEVER!!!!
• We're doing raclette this Christmas. Apparently, a Christmas-themed raclette, though I've no idea how that's different from regular raclette. Maybe more pine.
• Christmas dinner 2006 was take-out Chinese in the waiting room at emerg. It was the one success of the evening.
• Just looked up raclette. What's the emoticon for that Homer Simpson drooling sound? I always do a full English breakfast on Christmas morning. Dinner varies.
• > Apparently, a Christmas-themed raclette Some dried figs would be nice.
• I did raclette for my housewarming dinner party, to great success, though it's a tremendous amount of work, considering that everyone's doing their own cooking. It's also definitely a winter thing, as the heat coming off that puppy gets to be quite a bit, and the meal is so hearty and meat-and-cheese intensive. But highly recommended -- very social and interactive, everyone has something to do, and it takes hours and hours. (Have I not talked about this before? I thought I did...)
• > Apparently, a Christmas-themed raclette The 'recipe' Mother Renault is going to rely on calls for chipolata sausages, though what's specifically Christmassy about them, I've no idea.
• OK, I'm seriously hungry now. Are you accepting reservations at this time?
• I'm not sure why I think dried figs are christmassey, maybe from those fruit baskets people buy? Anyway, figs with cheese are yummy.
• Well, and there's that song about the pudding.
• My figgy pudding. Let me show you it.
• BTW, my blueberry thing is now totally black. I think it's going to gooped out on ice cream very, very soon.
• You want to see a doctor about that, mate.
• I have. Which reminds me -- you and I need to have a talk...
• Ahh, the blueberry stuff!! I want pictures and a full report. Why would any woman not swoon at your feet?
• Don't give kit your sausage or he'll put it in his butty, lol.
• But highly recommended -- very social and interactive, everyone has something to do, and it takes hours and hours. Nabe is easier.
• Ah, kit, I too have only one smallish oven, so I feel your pain. Maybe use a slow-cooker for the beef? Slow cookers are fun. I have turkey soup on the stove right now. Onions, garlic, herbs, turkey carcass. MMMMMMMMM.