December 03, 2003

• Wal Mart has no right to cry over ANYTHING after this incident. (MeFi thread here.)
• Let's try that again... Wal Mart story. Via MeFi
• I have a friend who manufactures a product distributed by Wal-Mart. When they announce an upcoming rollback on his product, he is told to charge Wal-Mart less. If he doesn't, they will pull the product from their stores. Vendors have no choice but to charge less. Sounds like it's Wal-Mart's way or the highway. I see the same attitude has been adopted regarding MasterCard. Consumers should not think Wal-Mart is looking out for them with these tactics. Wal-Mart is looking out for Wal-Mart.
• Isn't everybody looking out for themselves in the first place? Why should Wal-Mart adopt a more charitable position when the rest of society is only interested in getting their $29 dvd players. I'm not trying to defend Wal-Mart but it's a tough call to expect them to look out for the general welfare of others when most of the rest of society does exactly the opposite. In the end it's survival of the fittest.
• I hate Walmart, but I don't see what point A has to do with point B. They have the 'right' to do whatever they want when it comes to using the services of another company (as in Mastercard). I assume the tactic to be simply a push for Mastercard to lower its transfaction fees at Walmart stores, nothing more.
• And credit card companies surely are even more evil than Wal-Mart (disclaimer: not being American, I have no actual knowledge of Wal-Mart, so I might be doing them a disservice downplaying their evilness)
• There are a lot worse things to hate Walmart for (just try googling "I hate Walmart" or "Walmart sucks") including but not limited to: misogynistic policies, horrible insurance, unfair competition etc, ad finitum. I'm with genial in that Walmart does things because cheap is why people shop there. I'm fortunate enough where I have many alternatives and I never, ever, ever shop there. I disagree with genial about the implication that to be successful, you have to screw people. Take the Walmart vs. Costco article. Costco has some of the best--if not the best--employee benefits in the industry. They have a very tight profit margin, and store managers are under policy to lower prices if they have a windfall. The company was founded on the idea that you must treat employees and customers well. And it works. If only more corperations and governments worked under this mentality.
• (And dng here's a quick down and dirty of a few reasons why Walmart is evil for your edification, if you're inclined.)
• Thanks Kimberly.
• My favorite Wal Mart story and the reason I don't shop there: They received a shipment of t-shirts with Margaret from the Dennis the Menance comic on them, saying "One day a woman will be President!" They refused to sell them because the shirts went against their "family" values.
• Kimberly, correction:I was not trying to imply that I believe being successful means screwing your neighbor (although unfortunately the vast majority find it easier). I simply find it laughable that a society that continuely looks out for themselves and only themselves can turn around and be appalled by the actions of corporate America. Lets be honest here. I agree that the kind of benefits and customer service that Costco offers is a great thing, but unfortunately that's not what sells (and correct me if I'm wrong but don't you have to have some sort of membership ie. customer pays for lower prices and a better environment)?
• Is that story true, Sooooz? It really deserves to be. That is fantastically evil.
• Costco seems fantastically popular out here in Southern California. I pass by one that sells gas when I visit San Diego and it has near constant lines for the pumps. I don't shop there because I can't go through food fast enough to rationalize the volume discount benefit, but when I have a family I will join that glorious line. I object to genial's broad assertion about the character of 'Americans'. Being so large a country of so diverse a population negates the value of any single descriptive term. It is easy to lump us all together as self-serving sharks, but this view comes at the cost of seeing the greatness in the body that lurks beside the weakness. I will not provide examples of our strengths as an equally lengthly list could be drawn of our weaknesses and further derails the conversation. It is useless to say "America sucks because Walmart sucks and Walmart reflects America". It too conveniently reaffirms a belief that is shaky at best.
• Costco membership is $45. Considering that meat runs around half price there, I make that up in one, maybe two visits if I were only buying meat there. Just because policies in this country tend to favor corporate greed does not mean that as a whole we're only concerned with looking out for number one. I know I personally don't operate under that paradigm and try to avoid harming anyone because it's not worth it to me. So I guess that means I can bitch about Walmart--especially since I won't shop there. Now, it's not that I don't see your point. I mean one could fall into a trap of having to boycott every corporation because there's a price to pay when doing business on a large scale. But Walmart , by virtue of its' size and business practices, influences several markets heavily and its' policies tip more on the evil side than the good side of things.
• (Shotsy, the money you save in meat alone makes it worth it. Even when I was living alone I would go buy chicken breasts and beef and then put them in individual baggies and stick them in the freezer and it would last me forever and I'd always have something to make for dinner. That and you can buy enough toilet paper for 9 months in one go.)
• dg, as far as I know that is a true story. I don't recall now where I heard it, but it actually didn't surprise me at the time. Outraged? Yes. Surprise? No.
• I agree with everyone that it's wrong to make lump sum arguments about "all americans" and I try hard to say "a number of americans" or "most americans" but I think you just have to remain realistic. I'm a good christian man but I know when it comes to dog eat dog I'm probably gonna put my own well-being before those of others. This being said I will now switch over to my anti-Walmart mode. I think their business practices go beyond the survival of the fittest argument I posed earlier. They are in it for as much financial gain as possible by exploiting the economically weak(the poor that work there, the small businesses they overrun and steal customers from). I'm not sure which I hate more, their financial business practices or their "Big Brother Technique" of censuring what they deem inappropriate, whether it be certain magazines or types of clothing. I try very hard not to shop there, but unfortunately in a small college town with not much else to choose from and limited funds I don't have much else to choose from. By the way, I believe Sam Walton has his own version of Costco now that you describe it. In my hometown we have a Sam's Club that is by membership and a buy in bulk type of store. Interesting...
• A few further anti-walmart items: They and their owning family have consitently placed last in corporate giving. Sam's Club was purchased by Walmart some years ago. -- The corporate giving is in one of the things that bothers me the most about them. I believe that companies of this size have a moral responsibility to give something back to not only their customers, but also to those who can't afford to shop there.
• Okay, this is very outside the norm for me, because I don't much care for Wal-Mart. However, there is a lot of mis-information floating in this thread: Actually, Sam's Clubs are home-grown additions to the Wal-Mart empire. First Club opened in Oklahoma - circa 1983, the same year Wal-Mart acquired US Woolco Stores. w/r/t corporate giving: #3. That doesn't even take into account that the Walton Family Foundation, which gives more that $102m annually. In summary: It's business. As a consumer I try to get the best deal that I can. As a business person it's vital that I squeeze as much as I can, where ever I can. I look at contracts and pricing options regularly to make sure that I'm in the best possible position that I can be. It's the way the world works. It's why things that used to cost $1k now cost $100. There is a lot to hate about Wal-Mart, but they are far from the root of all evil.
• I will say this in Wal-Mart's defence: When the dead walk, the stores will make great fortresses. Huge square chunks of concrete, chock-full of rifles, ammunition, and food. What more could you want?
• I don't think that anyone here said that Walmart is the root of all evil (clearly, that's Dubya. I kid! I kid! Or not, but that's a different thread). I think the point is that their policies in general are bad--they screw vendors, they screw employees, and if you follow the link I posted for dng, they screw communities (it also shows how Walmart isn't necessarily the cheapest buy either). When it comes down to it, as a consumer you set your priorities. For some, cheapest is necessity (but see my above comment about their pricing). I'm fortunate enough where that's not the case for me, and I choose not to shop at a store that promotes general screwing. Er wait ...
• Kimberly I'm familiar with those reality/myths. It's mostly about spin. Having worked for an 'evil' company I know first hand how the facts get spun. I'm not saying that these aren't true, but that there may be more smoke than fire. Example: is it possible that the low percentage of insured is impacted by other causality? Could the high number of married women working there be covered under a spouse's insurance? I don't know any of this as fact, I'm just saying it's possible that there are additional causes.
• IgnorantSlut: I see your point, and I don't disagree with it. However, sometimes when there's smoke, there's fire: The US federal labour board has charged Wal-Mart with illegal intimidation and harassment of employees seeking union representation. The company also profited from employee deaths by taking out life insurance policies on its employees, payable to the company. (scroll down about halfway) A federal jury in Portland, Oregon, found Wal-Mart Stores, the world's largest retailer, guilty yesterday [December 18] of forcing its employees to work unpaid overtime in the first of 40 such lawsuits to go to trial. In the four-week trial, dozens of Wal-Mart workers testified that under pressure from their managers they frequently clocked out after 40 hours and continued working. (from 12/02) Wal-Mart has been dumped from the ranks of the United States’ leading index for "socially responsible" investing because of its purchases from sweatshop factories in China and Central America and its dealings with a repressive regime in Burma. The sexual discrimination suit is the latest in a string of recent legal problems at the company. Wal-Mart has taken an aggressive, no-holds-barred litigation stance for years that has drawn the ire of courts nationwide. Judges have sanctioned the company more than 130 times, in 40,000 cases in the past decade, for discovery abuses. The sex-discrimination lawsuit isn't Wal-Mart's only problem. There's bad, and then there's bad.
• Kimberly I'm glad we're seeing keyboard to keyboard! I've said that I don't like Wal-Mart. I know they aren't a 'good company'. What I am saying is that Wal-Mart is an easy target for what's wrong with America. Not that it's not at least partially deserved. There is certainly 'fire' where Wal-Mart is concerned, but there is plenty of smoke too.
• Wal-mart? Do they, like, sell stuff for walls there?
• Apparently, they told her to say that. Lovely, no?
• Kimberly, I mentioned the link above about life insurance policies to my husband and he said he, while working for a software company in California, had the exact same thing. He thinks it's quite common. (I didn't even know they'd done it - wonder if I'd have gotten anything...) McDonalds have done a fine job of scaring employees out of forming unions also: have you read Fast Food Nation by Eric Schlosser? They probably work from the same guidelines.
• I certainly hope it's not quite common. Maybe the distinction is that WalMart didn't tell its employees about the policy. And don't even get me started on McDonalds.
• Smoke
• An update on the WalMart story I posted at the top of this thread.
• Hmm, and look at where WalMart is now.
• Everywhere.